I like Mangini and all...

[Matt39]

But seriously, Im getting sick of this "Mangini guy" type nonsense. WHy the F would you draft a pure pass rusher #6 overrall and be forcing coverage schemes down his throat?

Gholston looks like a fool out there. Its as if he has lead in his cleats...we drafted this kid because everyone sawy what Tuck, Osi and Strahan did in the Super Bowl. NOne of those guys were dropping back into coverage.

I know they play the 4-3 and we play the 3-4. But jesus, just let the kid do what he knows right now.

These types of players that "fit" into the 3-4 barely exist. Gholston doesnt fit, and we drafted him sixth. Let him rush the passer and forget about everything else.

[Boozer76]

The preseason is for Gholston to learn how to play the position so he can be on the field for every play. It's also for the coaches to evaluate what he is capable of. During the regular season I suspect they'll have him do what he's good at on passing downs. Why wouldn't they have him work to better himself as a player in preseason? You would want him to just rush the passer every play in the preseason and learn nothing else?

[DMaynard]

There is the possibility that that is all they will ask him to do. At least this year. In the meantime, pre-season games are perfect for him to learn as much as possible. And maybe now they have seen enough to give up on making him a LB at all.

[Matt39]

The preseason is for Gholston to learn how to play the position so he can be on the field for every play. It's also for the coaches to evaluate what he is capable of. During the regular season I suspect they'll have him do what he's good at on passing downs. Why wouldn't they have him work to better himself as a player in preseason? You would want him to just rush the passer every play in the preseason and learn nothing else?

To me, its probably more of me realizing this guy isnt much of a plyer to begin with.

He looks slow and soft.

And no, Im not calling him a bust. But he has all the early signs of being one.

We knew we had a player in John Abraham the minute he stepped on the field.

[Boozer76]

To me, its probably more of me realizing this guy isnt much of a plyer to begin with.

He looks slow and soft.

And no, Im not calling him a bust. But he has all the early signs of being one.

We knew we had a player in John Abraham the minute he stepped on the field.

I disagree. Abraham struggled in his rookie season and only played situationally. Ellis actually looked like the best prospect after their rookie season, having 8.5 sacks that year playing DE in a 3-4. Abe didn't come on until his second season, and didn't REALLY come on until Herm came and he played DE in the 4-3.

[Matt39]

I disagree. Abraham struggled in his rookie season and only played situationally. Ellis actually looked like the best prospect after their rookie season, having 8.5 sacks that year playing DE in a 3-4. Abe didn't come on until his second season, and didn't REALLY come on until Herm came and he played DE in the 4-3.

Abraham got hurt early in his rookie season. Up until that point, he was the best pass rusher we had.

I believe he got hurt in the Tampa game when Chrebet caught the winning TD from Curtis.

[BwanaZulia]

Yeah... let's make huge broad statements based on what a rookie has done in 4 preseason games.

BZ

[Boozer76]

Abraham got hurt early in his rookie season. Up until that point, he was the best pass rusher we had.

I believe he got hurt in the Tampa game when Chrebet caught the winning TD from Curtis.

That's right, I forgot Abe went down. My memory goes as I get older. I still think Gholston will be fine. He is a pass rusher, that's for sure. The coaches want him to be more well rounded so they can disguise him on the field a little better. As a one dimensional pass rusher the QB is going to know he's coming every time and call the blocking scheme to counteract that. For the meantime when Gholston plays this year I suspect he's going after the QB.

[Matt39]

Yeah... let's make huge broad statements based on what a rookie has done in 4 preseason games.

BZ

Have you watched Gholston? He looks awful. Adrian Murrell's brother looks 10 times better at rushing the passer.

the 6th overrall pick needs to show some flash early. I've seen nothing of that from Gholston.

[Matt39]

And for the record, I hope Im completely wrong. If I am, I will up this thread and take my lumps.

I just havent seen ANYTHING from this guy yet.

[BwanaZulia]

Have you watched Gholston? He looks awful. Adrian Murrell's brother looks 10 times better at rushing the passer.

the 6th overrall pick needs to show some flash early. I've seen nothing of that from Gholston.

I watched him on every play last night and yes, he looks to be a little lost out there. He had a few power moments and made a few good stops.

The 6th pick isn't always going to come on the field and be a pro-bowl player that year. Look at Mario Williams.

Give him a few games, some time and let's see what we see. He has the physical talents, now it is all about slowing down the game and making the mental part easy.

BZ

[slats]

He looks slow and soft.

And no, Im not calling him a bust. But he has all the early signs of being one.

Wow.

Give the guy a break. He's obviously a physical beast. He looks slow because he's in the process of learning a new position, and he's thinking rather than reacting. And that's what the preseason's for - to help acclimate guys like this.

Come the regular season, he'll be unleashed on the QB on obvious passing downs. We'll get a glimpse of what he can do then.

Give him a year to learn his position in the 3-4 defense before you start looking for any "early signs."

[Maxman]

I really think it will all be simplified for him come the regular season. Get the QB. End of story. Don't think they are going to need him to cover people, especially initially. So his role will be on passing downs.

Bryan Thomas can fill the role of linebacker that looks lost in coverage just fine.

[JETSFAN5180]

Mangini played Vilma in all the wrong schemes and made him look worse. Gholston will suffer from this.Watch and see. Mangenious I dont think so..

[rick34125]

From what I hear #2 overall draft pick Chris Long is not excelling in the 3-4 in St. Louis either. Is anyone thinking Long is a bust? These guys are playing positions that are new to them and it's a significant transition. John Abraham came in as a pass rushing DE. You can't compare his transition to Gholston's. He's got the physical tools by everyone's testimony. Right now it's all mental. Who knows if Gholston will be able to play OLB or not, but I'd hold off judgment until next year.

BTW, I was a Gholston guy going into the draft. The reason being I thought at the time he could make an impact this year and turn our defense into something special. I'm optimistic that he still can. But could you imagine if we had gotten Mcfadden. OMG.

[RSJ]

Mangini played Vilma in all the wrong schemes and made him look worse. Gholston will suffer from this.Watch and see. Mangenious I dont think so..

Vilma looked bad in any scheme that didn't have two DT's playing at a high level in front of him. See 2005.

As far as Gholston goes it is way too early to tell. This is why the 3-4 is better suited for vets to come in and play in it. It takes time to learn this system. I think by around week 5 we will start seeing flashes.

[JETSFAN5180]

Vilma looked bad in any scheme that didn't have two DT's playing at a high level in front of him. See 2005.

As far as Gholston goes it is way too early to tell. This is why the 3-4 is better suited for vets to come in and play in it. It takes time to learn this system. I think by around week 5 we will start seeing flashes.

Name 2 DTs who played at a high level for the NYJETS while Vilma was here????????

[RSJ]

Name 2 DTs who played at a high level for the NYJETS while Vilma was here????????

Fergeson and Robertson played at a high level in 2004. Vilma's only good year here. Fergeson was in a contract year then. Vilma is the size of most safeties and can't shed blocks. Useless in any defense without DT's playing at a high level.

[JETSFAN5180]

Fergeson and Robertson played at a high level in 2004. Vilma's only good year here. Fergeson was in a contract year then. Vilma is the size of most safeties and can't shed blocks. Useless in any defense without DT's playing at a high level.

And Vilma was the DEFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR whats your point.In the right scheme he was a monster then the trial and error defense came into effect and that hurt Vilma.

[RSJ]

And Vilma was the DEFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR whats your point.In the right scheme he was a monster then the trial and error defense came into effect and that hurt Vilma.

In Vilma's case it is not the right scheme that makes him good, it is the right players around him. Vilma alone is not a great defensive player or he would have had a great 2005 campaign as well. OTOH David Harris played at an extremly high level in the same defense with no NT in front of him.

[Boozer76]

Name 2 DTs who played at a high level for the NYJETS while Vilma was here????????

Vilma is a teammate dependent player, ie he isn't very good unless he's got 2 pretty damn good to stellar DT's in front of him. Jason Ferguson had a habit of being great in contract seasons, which consequentially was the only decent season Vilma and DRob had, be it 4-3 or 30-4 D. You don't build D's around guys like Vilma. You build them around guys who can make things happen on their own, ie Harris and Jenkins.

[00tonytone]

VG has not looked impressive soo far and not only to the fans also the staff, why else would VG be playing in the 4th qtr of final preseason game. I posted before JETS cramming VG with to much instead of just letting him loose. they should just use him on passing downs and to rush the passer for know until he developes into a complete OLB. On the plus side D lowery was on the side lines vs eagles meaning the jets already know what they have in D. Lowery and what he can do. We have another shut down CB in D. Lowery

Murrell has looked better than VG and to keep 4 Qb's watch the jets release Murrell. Thats gonna be a mistake if they let Murrell go. The kid got a motor

[Barton]

Cant say I am surprised he's struggling. It was to be expected.

He's done a few good things but I havent seen any good pass rush moves yet, mostly just a straight bullrush or a quick hand over into a bullrush, nothing special. Dwight Freeney he'll never be, not his game.

I wouldnt be surprised if he didnt start a single game this season. I'd still take him at #6 if the draft was tomorrow though.

[bear]

Mangini played Vilma in all the wrong schemes and made him look worse. Gholston will suffer from this.Watch and see. Mangenious I dont think so..

He even look bad as a down line-man.His only move is the bullrush.The one time he looked ok was when he got the jump,and i t looked as if he was going to get his first sack,but just got pushed up field,and he gave up on the play.Pathetic

[Irish Jet]

I'm in agreement with Matt39 to an extent, however I'm not too worried about Gholston yet.

That being said I wish mangni would just simplify it down to, "See the QB? Go get him! Sick 'em!"

3-4 OLB's who are converted from DE's should not have to be great in coverage so early in their careers, I know guys like Ware may have the ability to drop back into coverage and perform very well but does anyone ever watch Shawne Merriman play? He's ****ing horrible in coverage, that's why he blitzes on 95% of the snaps and does it to a very high level.

Gholston was brought here to rush the passer, The hybrid position is a 3-4 D can be basically used in the same way as a 4-3 DE, with maybe him moving around a little more.

[jack48]

Have you watched Gholston? He looks awful. Adrian Murrell's brother looks 10 times better at rushing the passer.

the 6th overrall pick needs to show some flash early. I've seen nothing of that from Gholston.

No, he doesn't have to flash early when he is being asked to play a completely different position in a very complex defense after having missed a lot of OTA and mini camp activity because of academic requirements. He has to try to learn as fast as he can. But he has had nowhere near the practice reps that these other guys have had. And Murrell has been to a few NFL pre season camps. That is not a fair comparison.

[GFJET33]

look, everybody needs to take a deep breath and calm the hell down. Look at Mario Williams. Not that its a completely similar situation because Mario didnt have to learn a new position, but look how good hes become. Gholston is a rookie who has played in 4 preseason games, its a blip in his career so far, so relax, hell adjust, you think every top pick rookie look amazing in all their preseason games? Not to mention hes had to play catch up because he missed time at the start of training camp. So yes even though he's been underwhelming so far, lets give him some time to make true evaluations.

[scionce]

wow. i guess greatness is to be expected right out of the box; the complete package is now a bare necessity. why even bother drafting when we could trade away picks for great, complete players? that way, no one would ever have to lose sleep over a rookie moving slower than the game. what the hell are they teaching them at these football schools anyway? most likely wasting their time trying to give these kids an actual education... the deviants... we need a petition to force colleges to teach their football players only football. so that if they get drafted, they won't be lost because they won't have to learn anything because they know and have seen it all. and again, no fan would ever have to lose sleep over a rookie moving slower than the game. why would they? the kid would be a complete, manufactured, bona fide player at his respective position. and then i wouldn't have to leave extreme posts akin to jonathan swift's "(a) modest proposal." imagine that...

[BUM-KNEE]

wow. i guess greatness is to be expected right out of the box; the complete package is now a bare necessity. why even bother drafting when we could trade away picks for great, complete players? that way, no one would ever have to lose sleep over a rookie moving slower than the game. what the hell are they teaching them at these football schools anyway? most likely wasting their time trying to give these kids an actual education... the deviants... we need a petition to force colleges to teach their football players only football. so that if they get drafted, they won't be lost because they won't have to learn anything because they know and have seen it all. and again, no fan would ever have to lose sleep over a rookie moving slower than the game. why would they? the kid would be a complete, manufactured, bona fide player at his respective position. and then i wouldn't have to leave extreme posts akin to jonathan swift's "(a) modest proposal." imagine that...

Great post.

[villain_the_foe]

But seriously, Im getting sick of this "Mangini guy" type nonsense. WHy the F would you draft a pure pass rusher #6 overrall and be forcing coverage schemes down his throat?

Gholston looks like a fool out there. Its as if he has lead in his cleats...we drafted this kid because everyone sawy what Tuck, Osi and Strahan did in the Super Bowl. NOne of those guys were dropping back into coverage.

I know they play the 4-3 and we play the 3-4. But jesus, just let the kid do what he knows right now.

These types of players that "fit" into the 3-4 barely exist. Gholston doesnt fit, and we drafted him sixth. Let him rush the passer and forget about everything else.

You know what, I can see where you're coming from, however, you have to see what this guy can do. If he's an 6th overall pick in a draft he has to be able to show some type of range with his game. Granted, I think that at this point he'd be more of a threat solely as a pass rusher at this point, but that doesnt mean that he cant learn the position and be good/great at it. It takes time. Gholston has looked very lost on the field, I cant front...but many rookies do. its not like this is his 2nd or third year. I remember when the texans took Williams as the first pick over Reggie Bush, Williams didnt have a great first season. I bet the Texans are glad they did what they did today. The transition from college to the pros isnt an easy one, even for top picks.

[PatriotReign37]

No, he doesn't have to flash early when he is being asked to play a completely different position in a very complex defense after having missed a lot of OTA and mini camp activity because of academic requirements.

Perhaps he really is a poor fit for a 3 - 4 LB. I questioned his experience in the 3 - 4 post draft and you guys claimed he played in similar systems. Hmm.

Now, he is struggling to make the transition. This explains why NE never wanted him.

[villain_the_foe]

Perhaps he really is a poor fit for a 3 - 4 LB. I questioned his experience in the 3 - 4 post draft and you guys claimed he played in similar systems. Hmm.

Now, he is struggling to make the transition. This explains why NE never wanted him.

How is he struggling? He doesnt have one season game under his belt. he also missed OTA's. How is he struggling? of course we would like him to dominate now, but this is work in progress. its not like mangini is out there saying that this guy simply cant pick up and understand the playbook.

P.S. You sound like a Pats fan (Hater).

[RSJ]

wow. i guess greatness is to be expected right out of the box; the complete package is now a bare necessity. why even bother drafting when we could trade away picks for great, complete players? that way, no one would ever have to lose sleep over a rookie moving slower than the game. what the hell are they teaching them at these football schools anyway? most likely wasting their time trying to give these kids an actual education... the deviants... we need a petition to force colleges to teach their football players only football. so that if they get drafted, they won't be lost because they won't have to learn anything because they know and have seen it all. and again, no fan would ever have to lose sleep over a rookie moving slower than the game. why would they? the kid would be a complete, manufactured, bona fide player at his respective position. and then i wouldn't have to leave extreme posts akin to jonathan swift's "(a) modest proposal." imagine that...

Great post.

[RSJ]

Perhaps he really is a poor fit for a 3 - 4 LB. I questioned his experience in the 3 - 4 post draft and you guys claimed he played in similar systems. Hmm.

Now, he is struggling to make the transition. This explains why NE never wanted him.

Patriots cheated.

Just sayin..............

[jack48]

Perhaps he really is a poor fit for a 3 - 4 LB. I questioned his experience in the 3 - 4 post draft and you guys claimed he played in similar systems. Hmm.

Now, he is struggling to make the transition. This explains why NE never wanted him.

His biggest selling point is speed. I know he bench presses Rhode Island but he is supposed to be fast. He did not forget how to run. That will come. I have not seen it yet, but he is out there trying to figure things out. I have seen this before. No one can make a determination at this point. When he finally plays fast, we will know.