NFL Films' Greg Cosell tears Sanchez up on 1050

[T0mShane]

I was just driving from mall to mall and Jody Mac interviewed Greg Cosell, who basically sits and watches game tapes all day. When Jody Mac asked him about Sanchez he said (paraphrasing) that the Jets are dumb for trying to cast Sanchez as any type of star QB, that he's simply a complementary player who needs everything to go right around him to be successful, and that they need to "re-think" their evaluation of their QB because he doesn't have the talent to be a superstar QB, ever.

My first thought was that Cosell just described every QB in the league except for two, but you really have to wonder if he's right. I looked up some stuff on Cosell and he's definitely not one of those ESPN-style waffling sensationalists looking to drum up ratings. Nor us he just piling on. Here's what he said about Sanchez after last season when everybody was climbing on Sanchez's jock:

"Sanchez is a complementary offensive piece. He has above-average arm strength but not much more. He needs to be part of an offense whose foundation is the running game."

Yikes.

[visajets]

Some truth. Could you imagine if Sanchez attempted 45 passes a game 10 would be INTs.

[slowmoe57]

Some truth. Could you imagine if Sanchez attempted 45 passes a game 10 would be INTs.

Well he threw 44 last week and only one was picked off so there.

never mind about the dropped ones.

[slats]

He's still young, and he's still inexperienced.

He's better this year than he was last year, but he still has a ways to go.

His ability to move in the pocket, make time for himself, and make plays like we saw in the comeback wins this year, gives me hope that he can be more than an average game manager - at least.

Schottenheimer will have to be fired by default. They need to try another coach with the $50M QB. That's just the way it works. I don't think Cavanaugh or Callahan are the answer, either.

[Bugg]

Heard it as well.

Want to think he's wrong, because as McDonald pointed out after Cosell hung up,COsell loves Jay Culter, and Cutler blows chunks.

[#27TheDominator]

Heard it as well.

Want to think he's wrong, because as McDonald pointed out after Cosell hung up,COsell loves Jay Culter, and Cutler blows chunks.

Well, Cutler is the kind of guy that can physically bring a team around. I think there is a problem with his general thinking. I agree that Sanchez isn't ready to be relied on like that, but he's been getting better. To say that he isn't going to develop seems kind of silly, especially when you state he has above average arm strength. He shows flashes of brilliance, we'll see if he can put it together against a good D eventually, but there aren't many QBs who are going to do it all on their own anyway.

[#27TheDominator]

Heard it as well.

Want to think he's wrong, because as McDonald pointed out after Cosell hung up,COsell loves Jay Culter, and Cutler blows chunks.

Well, Cutler is the kind of guy that can physically bring a team around. I think there is a problem with his general thinking. I agree that Sanchez isn't ready to be relied on like that, but he's been getting better. To say that he isn't going to develop seems kind of silly, especially when you state he has above average arm strength. He shows flashes of brilliance, we'll see if he can put it together against a good D eventually, but there aren't many QBs who are going to do it all on their own anyway.

[SenorGato]

It's so unfair...the kid is just following orders...Cosell needs a cup of stfo.

[GimmeShelter]

I was just driving from mall to mall and Jody Mac interviewed Greg Cosell, who basically sits and watches game tapes all day. When Jody Mac asked him about Sanchez he said (paraphrasing) that the Jets are dumb for trying to cast Sanchez as any type of star QB, that he's simply a complementary player who needs everything to go right around him to be successful, and that they need to "re-think" their evaluation of their QB because he doesn't have the talent to be a superstar QB, ever.

My first thought was that Cosell just described every QB in the league except for two, but you really have to wonder if he's right. I looked up some stuff on Cosell and he's definitely not one of those ESPN-style waffling sensationalists looking to drum up ratings. Nor us he just piling on. Here's what he said about Sanchez after last season when everybody was climbing on Sanchez's jock:

Yikes.

Those same comments and worse are on the tip of most of our tongues. We just refuse to say it as we do not want to view the Sanchez pick as a bad one bordering on disaster.

[stoicsentry]

Those same comments and worse are on the tip of most of our tongues. We just refuse to say it as we do not want to view the Sanchez pick as a bad one bordering on disaster.

Flacco and Ryan weren't much better year 2, if at all. I know because I made the stupid decision to draft both in fantasy football. Trust me.

[GimmeShelter]

Flacco and Ryan weren't much better year 2, if at all. I know because I made the stupid decision to draft both in fantasy football. Trust me.

They were better. I think both had higher Competion pct and their TD to INT ratios weren't too bad.

I think those two gave you the feeling that they were keepers in year two despite slite steps backward. The jury is still out on Sanchez for me anyway.

[serphnx]

Heard it as well.

Want to think he's wrong, because as McDonald pointed out after Cosell hung up,COsell loves Jay Culter, and Cutler blows chunks.

I was just about to mention that.

Cosell used to post his notes up for free and I used to read them. He started trying to charge for it this year after Week 3, and of course I don't think it's worth paying for.

He loves Cutler because he thinks Cutler is the gutsiest QB in the NFL and stands in on every throw. He hates Sanchez because he claims Sanchez falls away from the throw. Cutler is actually considerably more mistake prone and gets rattled worse than Sanchez does. If you check Cutler's prime time road performances they are all awful. I believe this week is a prime time game so he will most likely be awful again, because he always is. He plays very small on big stages.

I'm actually not sure that Cosell works for NFL Films, but I guess he does. He is a contributor on a fantasy football website that has pretty much nothing besides him however.

I don't know how long Cosell has been doing this, but it'd be nice to see his notes on Rivers, Brees and Eli Manning from several years ago.

[stoicsentry]

They were better. I think both had higher Competion pct and their TD to INT ratios weren't too bad.

I think those two gave you the feeling that they were keepers in year two despite slite steps backward. The jury is still out on Sanchez for me anyway.

Not that much, though Flacco's comp. pct was very good.

Ryan, 2009: 22/14

Flacco, 2009: 21/12

Sanchez, 2010: 16/12

I think if you bear in mind his limited experience compared to those two and also look at 09 Sanchez vs. 10 Sanchez, you can see the improvements.

TD/INT: 12/20 vs. 16/12 is a pretty hefty difference. Expect even better in 2011.

[serphnx]

They were better. I think both had higher Competion pct and their TD to INT ratios weren't too bad.

I think those two gave you the feeling that they were keepers in year two despite slite steps backward. The jury is still out on Sanchez for me anyway.

They were very inconsistent, but I think they had better coaches and pieces around them as well, and Flacco has yet to play a playoff game. Sure he's been in them, but he hasn't really shown up.

Sanchez still hasn't completed the season so there's still room to increase (or decrease) his stats over the next 3 games. But as it stands, here are his stats:

13 games played. 235/441 53.3 2,852 yards 18 TD 12 INT

Here's another 2nd year QB:

15 games played. 214/380 56.3 2,598 yards 19 TD 15 INT

I'd say those numbers are nearly identical, with Sanchez having a chance to add to them a bit over the next 3 games. So my question is, do you give up on that second QB?

And that's just one example, you can look up about 10 more. You can look up 10 HoF players and a good 8 of them will have similar 2nd year stats to Sanchez. To write the guy off from a stat argument is pretty ignorant. I know you said the jury is out for you but I'm quoting your post to make a general point.

[jason423]

The one reason I wouldnt take much stock in it is because of that original comment you posted. When someone is down on a player it takes something spectacular to make you think otherwise. All he did is repeat what he originally felt, though I think his assessment that the team is asking too much of him at this stage is correct. Others have said that including guys like Steve Young who basically said the Jets staff is handling the kids career horribly.

[#27TheDominator]

I was just about to mention that.

Cosell used to post his notes up for free and I used to read them. He started trying to charge for it this year after Week 3, and of course I don't think it's worth paying for.

He loves Cutler because he thinks Cutler is the gutsiest QB in the NFL and stands in on every throw. He hates Sanchez because he claims Sanchez falls away from the throw. Cutler is actually considerably more mistake prone and gets rattled worse than Sanchez does. If you check Cutler's prime time road performances they are all awful. I believe this week is a prime time game so he will most likely be awful again, because he always is. He plays very small on big stages.

I'm actually not sure that Cosell works for NFL Films, but I guess he does. He is a contributor on a fantasy football website that has pretty much nothing besides him however.

I don't know how long Cosell has been doing this, but it'd be nice to see his notes on Rivers, Brees and Eli Manning from several years ago.

If he doesn't like guys that fall away from the throw he must absolutely HATE Eli. That guy throws a ton of back foot heaves.

[aec4]

Not that much, though Flacco's comp. pct was very good.

Ryan, 2009: 22/14

Flacco, 2009: 21/12

Sanchez, 2010: 16/12

I think if you bear in mind his limited experience compared to those two and also look at 09 Sanchez vs. 10 Sanchez, you can see the improvements.

TD/INT: 12/20 vs. 16/12 is a pretty hefty difference. Expect even better in 2011.

the problem is it was 8-0 and since it's 8-12. 8-12 is the same % as 12-18, so that means since week 6 he has reverted to old form?

[SMC]

FU, Maricon Suckchez

[donboyO]

Every Analyst has stated that Sanchez has regressed, not good news.

[GimmeShelter]

They were very inconsistent, but I think they had better coaches and pieces around them as well, and Flacco has yet to play a playoff game. Sure he's been in them, but he hasn't really shown up.

Sanchez still hasn't completed the season so there's still room to increase (or decrease) his stats over the next 3 games. But as it stands, here are his stats:

13 games played. 235/441 53.3 2,852 yards 18 TD 12 INT

Here's another 2nd year QB:

15 games played. 214/380 56.3 2,598 yards 19 TD 15 INT

I'd say those numbers are nearly identical, with Sanchez having a chance to add to them a bit over the next 3 games. So my question is, do you give up on that second QB?

And that's just one example, you can look up about 10 more. You can look up 10 HoF players and a good 8 of them will have similar 2nd year stats to Sanchez. To write the guy off from a stat argument is pretty ignorant. I know you said the jury is out for you but I'm quoting your post to make a general point.

Good points. Patience I guess is required. Last years end of season run has increased expectations too quickly I guess.

[Bergen Jet]

They were very inconsistent, but I think they had better coaches and pieces around them as well, and Flacco has yet to play a playoff game. Sure he's been in them, but he hasn't really shown up.

Sanchez still hasn't completed the season so there's still room to increase (or decrease) his stats over the next 3 games. But as it stands, here are his stats:

13 games played. 235/441 53.3 2,852 yards 18 TD 12 INT

Here's another 2nd year QB:

15 games played. 214/380 56.3 2,598 yards 19 TD 15 INT

I'd say those numbers are nearly identical, with Sanchez having a chance to add to them a bit over the next 3 games. So my question is, do you give up on that second QB?

And that's just one example, you can look up about 10 more. You can look up 10 HoF players and a good 8 of them will have similar 2nd year stats to Sanchez. To write the guy off from a stat argument is pretty ignorant. I know you said the jury is out for you but I'm quoting your post to make a general point.

Let's just hope that player 1 has half the career Mr. Elway had.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

They were very inconsistent, but I think they had better coaches and pieces around them as well, and Flacco has yet to play a playoff game. Sure he's been in them, but he hasn't really shown up.

Sanchez still hasn't completed the season so there's still room to increase (or decrease) his stats over the next 3 games. But as it stands, here are his stats:

13 games played. 235/441 53.3 2,852 yards 18 TD 12 INT

Here's another 2nd year QB:

15 games played. 214/380 56.3 2,598 yards 19 TD 15 INT

I'd say those numbers are nearly identical, with Sanchez having a chance to add to them a bit over the next 3 games. So my question is, do you give up on that second QB?

And that's just one example, you can look up about 10 more. You can look up 10 HoF players and a good 8 of them will have similar 2nd year stats to Sanchez. To write the guy off from a stat argument is pretty ignorant. I know you said the jury is out for you but I'm quoting your post to make a general point.

So you think Mark is the next John Elway? Elway could play in the cold.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

They were very inconsistent, but I think they had better coaches and pieces around them as well, and Flacco has yet to play a playoff game. Sure he's been in them, but he hasn't really shown up.

Sanchez still hasn't completed the season so there's still room to increase (or decrease) his stats over the next 3 games. But as it stands, here are his stats:

13 games played. 235/441 53.3 2,852 yards 18 TD 12 INT

Here's another 2nd year QB:

15 games played. 214/380 56.3 2,598 yards 19 TD 15 INT

I'd say those numbers are nearly identical, with Sanchez having a chance to add to them a bit over the next 3 games. So my question is, do you give up on that second QB?

And that's just one example, you can look up about 10 more. You can look up 10 HoF players and a good 8 of them will have similar 2nd year stats to Sanchez. To write the guy off from a stat argument is pretty ignorant. I know you said the jury is out for you but I'm quoting your post to make a general point.

Marks Numbers 13 games played. 235/441 53.3% 2,852 yards 18 TD 12 INT passer rating 74.2

Another 2nd year QB with similar #s 15 games 198/368 53.8% 2423 yards 13 TDs 8 INT passer rating 77.1

The other players yards are lower, as is TDs but also a lower int % 2.2 vs marks 2.7. Also has a better TD/Int ratio than Mark. Overall higher passer rating. Worth keeping?

[Bergen Jet]

Marks Numbers 13 games played. 235/441 53.3% 2,852 yards 18 TD 12 INT passer rating 74.2

Another 2nd year QB with similar #s 15 games 198/368 53.8% 2423 yards 13 TDs 8 INT passer rating 77.1

The other players yards are lower, as is TDs but also a lower int % 2.2 vs marks 2.7. Also has a better TD/Int ratio than Mark. Overall higher passer rating. Worth keeping?

That depends. Do I already know that player 2 is going to eat himself out of the league and is addicted to purple drank or no?

[Bugg]

If he doesn't like guys that fall away from the throw he must absolutely HATE Eli. That guy throws a ton of back foot heaves.

As it happens they also discussed the Jints and he didn't care for Eli either. Now he's having a bad year, but his team is in a position to win their division, and he has one more ring than Jay Cutler.

[Larz]

this is all blowback from hard knocks and rex's big mouth

this is jets hunting season, and everyone is piling on

sanchez is still 24 years old, and a streaky up and down QB

he has started about 38 games since high school

I'll give him until the end of his third season to pass judgement because I have seen improvement in some areas this season so that gives me hope

[SenorGato]

this is all blowback from hard knocks and rex's big mouth

this is jets hunting season, and everyone is piling on

sanchez is still 24 years old, and a streaky up and down QB

he has started about 38 games since high school

I'll give him until the end of his third season to pass judgement because I have seen improvement in some areas this season so that gives me hope

This...the guy does suck in the picture of being an NFL QB, but as a fan of him and his team the improvement from Year 1 to Year 2 is there...He's made the deep ball a weapon, he can run a two minute drill, we've put the onus on him in small doses and he's thrived...these are things you're looking from a second year QB.

Also, I have a theory/feeling that if I was a less lazy person I could somehow prove that Giants stadium hurt QB's completion %s...just checking out Eli, Simms, O'Brien, Sanchez...Pennington obviously stands out as an example of this, but there's ways to go after that...perhaps he was playing in particularly offensive friendly times for the league...the least I could do is an argument that certain stadiums are more offense friendly than other stadiums...kinda like baseball's park effects stuff. But here I am just typing out the idea out...someone who actually tried it out:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/69482-reproducing-mlbs-park-factors-nfl-stadium-factors

In this one our stadium actually does come out as one of the worst fields for passing offense...it plays up as no shocker (warm = good, cold = not as good) anyway...obviously it's just a stat from someone playing with numbers so take it at it's face value. Personally the math doesn't feel comprehensive enough.

Cool story right?

[war ensemble]

blah.

[serphnx]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/69482-reproducing-mlbs-park-factors-nfl-stadium-factors

In this one our stadium actually does come out as one of the worst fields for passing offense...it plays up as no shocker (warm = good, cold = not as good) anyway...obviously it's just a stat from someone playing with numbers so take it at it's face value. Personally the math doesn't feel comprehensive enough.

Cool story right?

Even without reading that link I already know Giants stadium has been awful for passing for a long time, and this new stadium is not one bit better. I'm STILL trying to figure out why there was no dome. I always hear the argument that a bad stadium is some sort of advantage. Funny, but I don't think there is one dome that opposing players haven't said is tough to play in. Domes trap noise and it gets loud as hell. If we had our own stadium maybe Woody would have realized hearing loud a$$ J-E-T-S chants thundering down with a frantic opposing QB failing to get calls in would be great for PSL sales and would come off great on TV. But we don't, so the Giants probably said NO and the Jets as the little bitch brother then pretended that's what they wanted too.

[SenorGato]

Even without reading that link I already know Giants stadium has been awful for passing for a long time, and this new stadium is not one bit better. I'm STILL trying to figure out why there was no dome. I always hear the argument that a bad stadium is some sort of advantage. Funny, but I don't think there is one dome that opposing players haven't said is tough to play in. Domes trap noise and it gets loud as hell. If we had our own stadium maybe Woody would have realized hearing loud a$$ J-E-T-S chants thundering down with a frantic opposing QB failing to get calls in would be great for PSL sales and would come off great on TV. But we don't, so the Giants probably said NO and the Jets as the little bitch brother then pretended that's what they wanted too.

The idea of a dome is good, but the execution of a dome would be pretty gay. Being a cold weather team is a legit advantage IMO, and it's the much more badass choice.

[#27TheDominator]

The idea of a dome is good, but the execution of a dome would be pretty gay. Being a cold weather team is a legit advantage IMO, and it's the much more badass choice.

+1

Artificial turf is gay enough, a dome would be over the top.

All the great mud games in history and now we are reduced to having guys with tire shavings stuck to their jerseys.

[Kleckineau]

Sancho is the 21st century version of Richard Todd.

Faster, more mobile, but just as bad.

Adjust your expectations.

[HessStation]

Yep and Brady was considered the next Joe Montana after his rookie year.

Look, not saying Cosell's wrong just saying nobody including these ******* people ever know. It's a crapshoot. Give him until the end of next year and let's see what we have. Not like any of us have a choice anyway.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

Yep and Brady was considered the next Joe Montana after his rookie year.

Nope. But this ain't Sanchez's rookie year.

By the end of his first season playing he was considered better than a four time pro-bowler by most, but not all. And by the end of his second year playing NOBODY doubted he was the teams franchise QB for the long term.

[Larz]

and another thing

how can you watch all the jets offense tape and not even bring up

drops

penalties

brad cat

running evry mother ******* 1st down

sure, sanchez had made lots of poor throws, panic throws, but the whole offense needs a good colon blow