Why can't we be honest? Our play calling sucks

[BornJetsFan1983]

ESPN Story where Sanchez is quoted saying I think the play calling is fine. And in the same story how we have not scored in the first Qtr in like a million games.

Here's the thing people make excuses on all sorts of stuff and never just come out and say it, it is Shotty and the play calling that prevents us from opening drive, opening Qtr, hell opening half scoring.

No other team puts up with horrible play calling like this, But we have endured two AFC championship losses and of course multiple games through out the season, lost because of predictable and often vanilla offensive strategy. Not even that plain old stupid play calls. How many more 3rd and 10 line drive balls to a WR on the line of scrimmage must we endure? How many times should we be on the goal line and not even try to run it in?

Even with days to prepare def coord in the league look forward to the vanilla shotty offense.

If we would just be honest as a team. I think they would have handed Shotty walking papers a season ago.

I don't want to hear about the "its Sanchez, penalties etc", we haven't scored in the first qtr since buffalo a season or two ago.

Please little Namath in the sky end Shotty's reign as the biggest disaster on the NY Jets. For god's sakes we let go brad smith for less...

[stoicsentry]

How can you differentiate between the offensive execution and the play calling?

[HessStation]

Fire Rex! He makes the offense look bad.

[RutgersJetFan]

[BornJetsFan1983]

How can you differentiate between the offensive execution and the play calling?

time, one or tow game sure ill give the other side all the benefit of the doubt they want...but seasons...eff no its the play-calling...also my little sister is able to tell me what the hets are about to do before they do it sometimes..her idea of sports is dancing with the stars..so yeah its the playcalling...

[vinnys025]

If his primary receiver isn't open, he checks down in a panic, gets the crazy feet, forgets how to hold the ball close to his chest, and of course forgets how to slide. Same as his first year, second, and of course it's still not fixed. Maybe he should have worked on this instead of his tan for magazine covers in the off-season?

[Jetsfan80]

If his primary receiver isn't open, he checks down in a panic, gets the crazy feet, forgets how to hold the ball close to his chest, and of course forgets how to slide. Same as his first year, second, and of course it's still not fixed. Maybe he should have worked on this instead of his tan for magazine covers in the off-season?

Sanchez has won 39 games in his career thus far. Must be the tan.

[stoicsentry]

Sanchez has won 39 games in his career thus far. Must be the tan.

The tan gives him only a 50% on the grittiness scale, fairer skinned than a non-gritty player, but far darker than a true blue collar grit dude.

[DoubleDown]

If his primary receiver isn't open, he checks down in a panic, gets the crazy feet, forgets how to hold the ball close to his chest, and of course forgets how to slide. Same as his first year, second, and of course it's still not fixed. Maybe he should have worked on this instead of his tan for magazine covers in the off-season?

There has been a clear improvement with Sanchez going through his progressions, looking off defenders, and eluding pass rushers over the past two years. He has a tendency to get to his check down too quickly, and he needs to do a much better job of protecting the football within the pocket.

It's evident that the game is slowing down for him, and if the improvement continues, his level of play on the field is going to reach new heights sooner rather than later.

[The Troll]

The two-yard out route on 3rd and 3 is my personal favorite.

[Bleedin Green]

How can you differentiate between the offensive execution and the play calling?

When running a two-minute offense, which the Jets see considerable improvement in nearly every time they run, which of these things are forced to be changed: the plays called or the players running those plays? Don't get me wrong, Sanchez and plenty of others are far from blameless for the offensive struggles, and certainly need to get their sh*t together, but unless the problem is Brick, Mangold and Moore, it hasn't made one damn difference which players are out there on the field, the offense still continues to be a problem, and repeatedly show the same exact issues year after year despite 8 new offensive starters since Schotty's first season and we'd probably be better off not having our still developing QB having to always fight an up-hill battle with his own offense.

Even if you give Schotty the benefit of the damn, and say he is getting more blame than he deserves, he still unquestionably deserves some of the blame, and given that it's become clear he's not capable of getting the kind results the team needs out of the players he's been given, than there's really no reason someone else shouldn't be given the opportunity to see if they can do something more with these players, as opposed to continuing to turn over an offensive roster for the benefit of a coach who's yet to really prove anything in his 5+ years on the job.

[#27TheDominator]

ESPN Story where Sanchez is quoted saying I think the play calling is fine. And in the same story how we have not scored in the first Qtr in like a million games.

Here's the thing people make excuses on all sorts of stuff and never just come out and say it, it is Shotty and the play calling that prevents us from opening drive, opening Qtr, hell opening half scoring.

No other team puts up with horrible play calling like this, But we have endured two AFC championship losses and of course multiple games through out the season, lost because of predictable and often vanilla offensive strategy. Not even that plain old stupid play calls. How many more 3rd and 10 line drive balls to a WR on the line of scrimmage must we endure? How many times should we be on the goal line and not even try to run it in?

Even with days to prepare def coord in the league look forward to the vanilla shotty offense.

If we would just be honest as a team. I think they would have handed Shotty walking papers a season ago.

I don't want to hear about the "its Sanchez, penalties etc", we haven't scored in the first qtr since buffalo a season or two ago.

Please little Namath in the sky end Shotty's reign as the biggest disaster on the NY Jets. For god's sakes we let go brad smith for less...

Who hasn't come out and said it? Name three people.

[Midget Love 20]

What drives me crazy are the play sequences where Schotty will call a play....Ex) 2nd and 4 say 3 wide formation with Greene in the backfield, throw Mason in motion and there's a presnap penalty (false start). And then run what looks like the SAME formation, SAME play, SAME pre-snap formation with Mason going in motion for 2nd and 9.

Now let me ask....is he running the same play? Why not change up personnel to keep defenses honest? It seems Schotty in-game decision are final and is too stubborn or believes that he's smarter than the D coordinator across the field. If you don't know what I'm talking about, give it the next 2 weeks and the situation will occur at least twice in the upcoming weeks. Schotty's downfall is he "goes to the well one to many times" with cute plays which worked once, or twice but then re-uses the play until it becomes predictable no matter what the outcome (think last week there were two designed plays were LT was the primary receiver out of the backfield. Granted he had the match-up on LBs and it would be the right move, but only as a check down and not a primary target.)

You know what I would like to see more from our offense?

A) What about RB screens (especially with how aggressive Dallas' front 7 was)

Ground and pound via stretch plays off tackle over Brick

C) Play action fakes where Sanchez is bootlegging toward his left (he has that one play to the right where he finds Keller, which is surprisingly becoming predictable!)

D) Finally boot legs in goal line to the left side (think the Steeler game last year).

I'm no professional coach/coordinator but Sanchez seems to have the mobility and is pretty successful while on the move. Plus you know what helps getting your QB going, high percentage passes (RB screens) and letting the offense get into a flow to dominate the ball and T.O.P. (see ground and pound). Ground and pound also will open the play action fake which he is deceptively good at too. It's a shame because if it weren't for Schotty and was Callahan calling the shots I could see this offense being a real power house. Until then....well, I guess we'll be starting these threads

[The Crusher]

If his primary receiver isn't open, he checks down in a panic, gets the crazy feet, forgets how to hold the ball close to his chest, and of course forgets how to slide. Same as his first year, second, and of course it's still not fixed. Maybe he should have worked on this instead of his tan for magazine covers in the off-season?

Ummm hey!!! He's a model.

[stoicsentry]

I'll tell you what drove me crazy for a long time were those plays with one RB where Sanchez got under center, then immediately went to the shotgun, then the RB motions into the slot. I'm talking about situations where the run is still in play (E.G. 3rd and 1 or 2nd and goal from the 2). I never really understood why Shotty would want to show his hand in those situations, it seems like it immediately weakens your position.

That said, one of the commentators last Sunday mentioned that we only emptied the backfield on 2% of plays, so it doesn't seem like as much of a big deal as I thought.

I'm open to the idea it's the playcalling. I just don't get it, though, wouldn't you eventually LUCK into a 1st quarter touchdown by now? How can it be as bad as it is? I think we had maybe 1 or 2 1st quarter touchdowns last year, IF that.

[sirlancemehlot]

All these years watching Shotty's offense I've come to the conclusion that he has no insctinct. He's an over-planner and doesn't know how to be unpredictable. I don't think his offensive design is bad--just his overly cerbral approach to a game that's fluid and dynamic. We are at our best in four-minute offense because he's not looking at his freakin chart--he's winging it.

[#27TheDominator]

Schotty's downfall is he "goes to the well one to many times" with cute plays which worked once, or twice but then re-uses the play until it becomes predictable no matter what the outcome (think last week there were two designed plays were LT was the primary receiver out of the backfield. Granted he had the match-up on LBs and it would be the right move, but only as a check down and not a primary target.)

Some good points, but most of the complaints regarding Schotty have stemmed on him not doing what works repeatedly until it doesn't. Personally I don't care about predictability. I care about results. Having a back (or TE) repeatedly beat a LB has been a problem for our D. If the Cowboys D is similar to ours it should work against them too.

You know what I would like to see more from our offense?

A) What about RB screens (especially with how aggressive Dallas' front 7 was)

Ground and pound via stretch plays off tackle over Brick

C) Play action fakes where Sanchez is bootlegging toward his left (he has that one play to the right where he finds Keller, which is surprisingly becoming predictable!)

D) Finally boot legs in goal line to the left side (think the Steeler game last year).

I think we did see a few screens against the Cowboys. I don't think we saw them before because Sanchez wasn't scaring anybody and teams just weren't blitzing on us. I'd like to establish the run and then run tons of play action, but that's just me. I think the whole philosophy of the team goes against scoring early. Is there any particular reason that you want him to roll to the left? It's a hell of a lot harder to throw rolling left because his throwing shoulder will be downfield. I like to use the roll out. It seems to work well to get Keller involved. .

First of all, they always defer even if they win the toss. They also run a ridiculously conservative offense to start most of the time. That is by design and there is no arguing with the results. The goal is to win games, not score early. Like Stoic, I am surprised that they haven't lucked into any scores early, but I'm not super concerned.

[Arsis]

The play calling could be a bit better and a bit more consistent. I think it is a mix of personnel, philosophy and ability(schotty's)

[slats]

I think we did see a few screens against the Cowboys. I don't think we saw them before because Sanchez wasn't scaring anybody and teams just weren't blitzing on us. I'd like to establish the run and then run tons of play action, but that's just me. I think the whole philosophy of the team goes against scoring early. Is there any particular reason that you want him to roll to the left? It's a hell of a lot harder to throw rolling left because his throwing shoulder will be downfield. I like to use the roll out. It seems to work well to get Keller involved. .

First of all, they always defer even if they win the toss. They also run a ridiculously conservative offense to start most of the time. That is by design and there is no arguing with the results. The goal is to win games, not score early. Like Stoic, I am surprised that they haven't lucked into any scores early, but I'm not super concerned.

That's a really good point. The Jets by design probably have fewer first quarter possessions than any other team in the league. Taking the ball once in a while my throw their opponent off. They might want to try that sometime.

As for screens, I think the primary issue is that they're not all that easy to execute. I don't think you see a lot of first and second year QB's running a real screen pass, where he appears to be running for his life from the rush only to dump it over their heads to the RB. I was very encouraged when I saw Sanchez pull that off against the 'Boys, and hope to see more of it. A lot more of it.

I hate that quick WR screen they love to run with a passion, though. I would be very pleased if they dumped that one from the playbook.

[Jetsfan80]

That's a really good point. The Jets by design probably have fewer first quarter possessions than any other team in the league. Taking the ball once in a while my throw their opponent off. They might want to try that sometime.

And deprive Westhoff the opportunity to pin the opponent inside the 10 on the opening kickoff? Never!

I hate that quick WR screen they love to run with a passion, though. I would be very pleased if they dumped that one from the playbook.

It certainly increases Sanchez's completion percentage, but yeah, rarely does it work. It especially failed against Dallas because it went to the wrong guy. Throwing it to Plaxico instead of Santonio? Really Schotty?

I'd much prefer more slip-screens to LT or maybe even McKnight or Kerley. Hell, maybe go unconventional like the Chiefs did this past week and line up one of those three guys at fullback (Kansas City used Dexter McCluster in that role, and it was the only play that actually worked well in their 41-7 blowout loss). It will get them out in space easier and throw off the defense. And if Schottenheimer really wants to, he can send the unconventional fullback in motion and then have a viable receiving target while still getting a read on the defense.

How would the defense account for Holmes and Plax on the outside, Greene at RB and LT at fullback? I salivate at the possibilities.

[JiFtheOracle]

That's a really good point. The Jets by design probably have fewer first quarter possessions than any other team in the league. Taking the ball once in a while my throw their opponent off. They might want to try that sometime.

As for screens, I think the primary issue is that they're not all that easy to execute. I don't think you see a lot of first and second year QB's running a real screen pass, where he appears to be running for his life from the rush only to dump it over their heads to the RB. I was very encouraged when I saw Sanchez pull that off against the 'Boys, and hope to see more of it. A lot more of it.

I hate that quick WR screen they love to run with a passion, though. I would be very pleased if they dumped that one from the playbook.

They tried it once last year, the Patriots destroyed them and Rex said he never do it again. lol

I say they just run the skinny post to Holmes until someones proves they can stop. He should have 20 catches this week.

[SMC]

I'm taking a wait and see approach on offense. Schitty and Sanchez have their issues, but its a marked improvement over last years opener. Heck this is the best O performance after a week off in the last year or so. Usually Schitty over prepares because he has too much time.

I'd like to see how the O performs through to the bye. That will be telling.

[The Crusher]

What drives me crazy are the play sequences where Schotty will call a play....Ex) 2nd and 4 say 3 wide formation with Greene in the backfield, throw Mason in motion and there's a presnap penalty (false start). And then run what looks like the SAME formation, SAME play, SAME pre-snap formation with Mason going in motion for 2nd and 9.

Now let me ask....is he running the same play? Why not change up personnel to keep defenses honest? It seems Schotty in-game decision are final and is too stubborn or believes that he's smarter than the D coordinator across the field. If you don't know what I'm talking about, give it the next 2 weeks and the situation will occur at least twice in the upcoming weeks. Schotty's downfall is he "goes to the well one to many times" with cute plays which worked once, or twice but then re-uses the play until it becomes predictable no matter what the outcome (think last week there were two designed plays were LT was the primary receiver out of the backfield. Granted he had the match-up on LBs and it would be the right move, but only as a check down and not a primary target.)

You know what I would like to see more from our offense?

A) What about RB screens (especially with how aggressive Dallas' front 7 was)

Ground and pound via stretch plays off tackle over Brick

C) Play action fakes where Sanchez is bootlegging toward his left (he has that one play to the right where he finds Keller, which is surprisingly becoming predictable!)

D) Finally boot legs in goal line to the left side (think the Steeler game last year).

I'm no professional coach/coordinator but Sanchez seems to have the mobility and is pretty successful while on the move. Plus you know what helps getting your QB going, high percentage passes (RB screens) and letting the offense get into a flow to dominate the ball and T.O.P. (see ground and pound). Ground and pound also will open the play action fake which he is deceptively good at too. It's a shame because if it weren't for Schotty and was Callahan calling the shots I could see this offense being a real power house. Until then....well, I guess we'll be starting these threads

Understood, have you ever played one on TV?

Very good post . Schotty does seem to have a knack in doing exactly what is expected. I still like the poster who says his baby sister can predict the calls. Thats awesome.

[Jet27]

How can you differentiate between the offensive execution and the play calling?

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you have been watching closely it is very obvious. There are two things that occur on the offensive side of the ball, one is control the line of scrimmage and the other is doing what your offense has been designed to do, either you are a run first team or a pass first team...PERIOD. The OC and HC must make the plays to allow the people they drafted and/or traded for succeed. Case in point, everyone knows that teams have been stacking the line of scrimmage against our offense, in game adjustments or pre-game planning need to provide the QB (any QB in the NFL) the means to go to plan B if the D is in a formation...if there is alot of movement on the D, then it comes down to positioning the QB further off the line of scrimmage to give him more time to THINK based on what he see's and then implement the plan....From what I have seen it takes our Jets at the very least two quarters to do that. We have lost way to many games (games we should have not lost) because the play calling, pre-game prep as to alternate play calling, and strategy based directly on the OC's lack of strategy.

Blaming our young QB is nonsense...watch this weeks game against the Jags....the Jags will try to do the very same thing that Dallas did, which is the very same thing Pitt did in the AFCC game....mistakes will happen when the QB is hit (just like we did to Brady and the Pats in the playoffs).

We need our OC to prepare a plan that uses all of our offensive weapons. And that means we run the ball and we compliment that with effective passing not the other way around...Sanchez and the O are not going to win shoot outs at this point in time, maybe later during the year or next.....

[Integrity28]

Two points:

1. The majority of people here would love to see Schotty gone, and many like myself has been saying so since Mangini's first season.

2. He's not going anywhere, so why continue to beat the dead horse. At this point, I can only hope that Schotty - like many of the young players on this team - comes into his own and the light goes on, reducing the level of nonsensical things we see him do. He's never going to be perfect, nobody is, but he's what we've got... might as well deal with it.

[THE ILK]

GATO! GATO!! GATO!!!

[rillo]

It's well documented on JN that most of us are not happy with the offense and sh*tty Jr. as the playcaller. Jets offense is hard to.watch at times.

[Bleedin Green]

That's a really good point. The Jets by design probably have fewer first quarter possessions than any other team in the league. Taking the ball once in a while my throw their opponent off. They might want to try that sometime.

As for screens, I think the primary issue is that they're not all that easy to execute. I don't think you see a lot of first and second year QB's running a real screen pass, where he appears to be running for his life from the rush only to dump it over their heads to the RB. I was very encouraged when I saw Sanchez pull that off against the 'Boys, and hope to see more of it. A lot more of it.

I hate that quick WR screen they love to run with a passion, though. I would be very pleased if they dumped that one from the playbook.

That is one of the worst, least affective plays I've ever seen, especially considering they always run it to the side of the field with only one WR, meaning there is never a single blocker there, so you've got a WR going from a fully stopped position, then trying to beat a DB who's flying at him from the second the ball leaves Sanchez's hand. Unless you get lucky and the DB blows his tackle, that play isn't going to get you anything.

Also agree on the RB screens, that was a hell of a play on the screen to LT, and can be extremely effective but can be tough to pull off, because you need the DL/LBs to really get after the QB and buy that they got through legitimately, otherwise they'll peel off and destroy the RB. Meanwhile the QB has to hold onto the ball long enough, but not too long and make sure he gets it up over the heads of all the oncoming rushers. It's at the same time very simple and very complicated, but the Jets definitely have the right kind of personnel to run it successfully.

[Jetsfan80]

It's well documented on JN that most of us are not happy with the offense and sh*tty Jr. as the playcaller. Jets offense is hard to.watch at times.

Thanks faba.

[SMC]

That is one of the worst, least affective plays I've ever seen, especially considering they always run it to the side of the field with only one WR, meaning there is never a single blocker there, so you've got a WR going from a fully stopped position, then trying to beat a DB who's flying at him from the second the ball leaves Sanchez's hand. Unless you get lucky and the DB blows his tackle, that play isn't going to get you anything.

Agreed. I wonder why they don't run it from a bunch formation so it's a shorter throw and the DB has less time to react. That's how the Pats do it. Instead, Schitty calls for a WR screen that is like a 10 yd throw and no blockers. No matter how strong the QB arm is, the DB has more time to react and make a play.

[Integrity28]

I'm still perplexed by this thread, I'd really like to know who won't admit it... because from what I've seen, its the most discussed thing on this site every season since I started posting here.

[Bleedin Green]

I'm still perplexed by this thread, I'd really like to know who won't admit it... because from what I've seen, its the most discussed thing on this site every season since I started posting here.

Brian Schottenheimer is the Chad Pennington of Offensive Coordinators.

[Jetsfan80]

Brian Schottenheimer is the Chad Pennington of Offensive Coordinators.

Noodle playsheet.

[JoeWillie]

I posted this response in another thread earlier in the week, but it is applicable here.

In my opinion, Schotty being not very good has more to do with his ability to react on the fly than his actual playcalling. By that, I mean that he sticks to his scripts way too long.

Understand that there is a very good purpose for scripting plays that goes beyond just trying to score or getting off to a fast start.

I've coached a high school offense for 7 years and scripting is a valuable tool in helping to set up what you're going to do for a large part of the rest f the game. What scripting really does is two fold:

First, it allows a coaching staff to affirm that a defense is going to react to a specific alignment or formation the way that it expects them to do through their film study for that week. It can help "affirm" that week's game plan very early on in the contest, which is good for the frame of mind of the coach. If he sees the defense is reacting the way he expects, he can be more confident in the plays he's calling, thereby being more aggressive.

Secondly, coaches design plays in "series", that is they'll line up in a specific formation or "look", that will generally have have 4 or 5 options off of that same look. A script will force the coach into running the base play for that series, allowing them to see how the defense might react to a particular movement, effectively setting the defense up for a more devasting "option" in that play series later in the game.

As I said, scripts can be a very valuable tool during the early parts of a game.

However, a script can hinder a team if the playcaller takes too long to establish a "feel for the game", which is something I've said for a long time that Schottenheimer is not very good at.

It's not that his playcalling is always bad, it's more that he takes too long to recognize that the defense is doing things that in effect, neutralize his Plan A game plan.

Sunday night was a perfect example of that and I pointed it out in the game thread very early on. It was obvious that the Jet game plan was to attack a depleted Dallas secondary down the field right from the start with 5 and 7 drop pass plays. It was also obvious that Dallas knew that, and the as a result, Rob Ryan's defensive game plan was that he was going to zone blitz early and often by bringing 7 and 8 guys, making it very difficult to attack that defense with the run or any down field passes. We saw the result. We couldn't run the ball because Dallas did a great job with their zone blitzes filling the gaps, and their pass rush was swarming Sanchez because of the long drops and the relatively long down the field routes to develop.

Now I've never been an NFL playcaller, but football is football, and any offensive coach will tell you that against that kind of front, you need to attack the flank, either by rolling your QB out, or with quick slants, or something I was calling for for about an hour on Sunday night, which is a good old fashioned screen pass, which eventually was called in the last 2 minutes of the half and went for about 30 yards. Hell, why not even put your offense into a "no huddle", which would put much more pressure on the defensive line and not give them 30 or 45 seconds between plays to rest.

Now I'm no genius, but it took Schottenheimer almost 28 minutes to alter what he was doing on offense on Sunday night and adjust his offense to what the defense was doing to the Jets in the first half.

Even Rex said to the TV interviewer at the end of the half that it took them too long to recognize what the Cowboys were doing on defense and react to it.

This is my main complaint with Schottenheimer, specifically his lack of ability to develop a "feel for the game" and alter his plan where necessary.

It's a characteristic that every great playcaller, guys like Sean Payton and Norv Turner, has and it's not something you normally develop, you either have it or you don't, and Schottenheimer does not.

[Aten]

This stuff about playcalling is absurd. All NFL offenses are exactly the same. It's not like in college where real system diversity exists. Everybody has the same number and type of plays based on the same concepts. Obviously the areas of emphasis change year to year and week to week based on your players and the opponent's, but it's not like there's anybody out there getting some sort of competitive advantage from drawing up better plays or doing a better job of picking what play to use in a given situation. That's just not real life.

When our offense sucks it's because the players don't execute. The lack of cohesion isn't because there's something wrong with the system, it's because the players don't know it well enough, and that's where the actual problem with Schottenheimer comes in. Part of the problem is the constant turnover but it doesn't help that we're always trying to do everything out of multiple formations and personnel groups. Like when we got Holmes and they were talking about moving him around, X, Z, slot, whatever. How many times did Marvin Harrison ever line up on the left side of the field? A handful in his whole career? Offense is about specialization, not about everybody knowing everybody else's job like Rex does defense.