Schefter suggests Peyton wants no business with the Jets

[Lupz27]

If there so close, why wouldn't Eli want to play in the same stadium and have thier families near one another (actually have no idea of thier married, but it sounds good)

I'm just making an assumption based on what I've seen over the years from the Manning's. In my opinion the most important thing to the Manning's is there professional career's, and there professional image. Like I said it's an assumption, it's based on the way Archie has handled his sons careers right out of college (Peyton going back to school because Parcells wouldn't commit to picking him 1 overall, and the whole Eli won't play in SD thing, and now with Archie making comment about Luck, and Peyton having trouble coexisting).

[JustInFudge]

He did stretch the field for us though. If he wasnt a game breaking deep threat then why did our deep pass attempts go down? Besides our OL sucking a$$ this year what else changed? Nothing. Same QB and same OC. They didnt have a deep threat to stretch the field and Holmes game suffered because of it too.

Yes. He did and it still didnt matter. I think you're missing the point here. BE is not Randy Moss and the Jets pass game is awful with or without this so called deep threat. The pass attack sucked and still does.

[Lupz27]

This guys is acting like BE is f'ing Randy Moss. Lets not kid ourselves, he's a very average receiver who can stretch the field but making him out to be this game breaking deep threat is absurd. This is the same guy that let a wide open deep ball bounce of his helmet lmfao and was notorious for the dropsees. If he was so good, why was the passing attack so bad?

Last year it was the 22nd ranked passing attack this year it was 21. It really wasnt any worse than last year. Its just flat out sucks and I think its about 80% QB 10% WR 10% System.

.

I agree BE is no Randy Moss, he definitely went overboard trying to hammer home his point, but to say BE, or any WR who could stretch the field and command deep coverage, wouldn't help the offense as a whole, not just Sanchez, is not accurate and the difference in the WHOLE offense from 2010 to 2011 was clear to the naked eye you don't even need to bring in stats if you watched all the games, and I know u did.

Jets key players 2010 playoff game vs Pats on O

QB Sanchez

RB Greene

RB Tomlinson

FB TRich

WR Holmes

WR Edwards

WR Cotchery

TE Keller

LT Dbrick

LG Slauson

C Mangold

RG Moore

RT Hunter

2011 Jets key offensive players week 15-17

QB Sanchez

RB Greene

RB Tomlinson

FB Connor

WR Holmes

WR Burress

WR Kerley

TE Keller

LT Dbrick

LG Slauson

C Mangold

RG Moore

RT Hunter

Now what is different about these 2 lineups? 1st lack of speed at WR #2 a big problem, and I know Plax made us better in the red zone, but he did nothing to help get us there which was a huge problem. 2nd the loss of leadership on that side of the ball from TRich, Cotchery, and not listed here Woody. If both are adressed the offense and Sanchez will be better as a WHOLE. And if there new offensive system attacks aggressively down field we could be in for a great season in 2012 (I have my concerns about the new offensive system passing game wise).

[Larz]

NFL GMs have suggested to LaCanfora that teams such as the Seahawks, Cardinals, or 49ers are "possible destinations" for Manning

so

how do you get to "peyton wants no business with the jets"

from that ?

and pappa archie won't want both his boys in the NFC. he probably doesn't want them in the same city tho either

I would bet on a team not in the east or south

maybe kansas city ?

[Lupz27]

Yes. He did and it still didnt matter. I think you're missing the point here. BE is not Randy Moss and the Jets pass game is awful with or without this so called deep threat. The pass attack sucked and still does.

Yes the pass game was bad both years but the deep threat in 2010 helped the offense as a whole both in running the ball and key drives to win games late in the 4th quarter, and both were non existent this season, and I believe this was a big part of the problem with this years (not to mention Schottys already flawed system both years) offense, our running game suffered, so it was harder to hide our passing O/QB/system which ever one(s) you believe is the problem.

[JustInFudge]

Yes the pass game was bad both years but the deep threat in 2010 helped the offense as a whole both in running the ball and key drives to win games late in the 4th quarter, and both were non existent this season, and I believe this was a big part of the problem with this years (not to mention Schottys already flawed system both years) offense, our running game suffered, so it was harder to hide our passing O/QB/system which ever one(s) you believe is the problem.

Meh, not buying it. Holmes, Keller, Kerley can all stretch the field. And Plax is a match up nightmare but Sanchez didnt know how to throw to him. He's got 6-7 inches on nearly every one he faces.

Our OL took a step back. Moore getting healthy, Mangold being injured, Connor is no T-Rich, Hunter wasnt the guy we saw last year, no Turner. Thats what hurt the run game.

Actually, I'd like to revise my percentages from earlier. 70% Sanchez, 15% OL, 10% WR, 5% System

[Lupz27]

Meh, not buying it. Holmes, Keller, Kerley can all stretch the field. And Plax is a match up nightmare but Sanchez didnt know how to throw to him. He's got 6-7 inches on nearly every one he faces.

Our OL took a step back. Moore getting healthy, Mangold being injured, Connor is no T-Rich, Hunter wasnt the guy we saw last year, no Turner. Thats what hurt the run game.

Actually, I'd like to revise my percentages from earlier. 70% Sanchez, 15% OL, 10% WR, 5% System

Every point you make is valid except saying Kerley, Keller, and Plax can stretch the field, no team is committing a extra defender deep to any of these players, while Holmes, and Edwards both do, and when you didn't, the Jets actually made you pay on occasion in 2010.

Yes Mark did not know or have the connection/trust to throw to Plax between the 20's, but they worked great in the red zone I find that strange, the concept of getting the ball where the big man can go get it should be the same everywhere very strange. I would have loved to have seen Edwards here last year as well as Plax only for the mere fact that the less you changed in the lockout shorten offseason the better. This would have also eased Plax into the game plan outside the redzone

[JustInFudge]

Every point you make is valid except saying Kerley, Keller, and Plax can stretch the field, no team is committing a extra defender deep to any of these players, while Holmes, and Edwards both do, and when you didn't, the Jets actually made you pay on occasion in 2010.

Yes Mark did not know or have the connection/trust to throw to Plax between the 20's, but they worked great in the red zone I find that strange, the concept of getting the ball where the big man can go get it should be the same everywhere very strange. I would have loved to have seen Edwards here last year as well as Plax only for the mere fact that the less you changed in the lockout shorten offseason the better. This would have also eased Plax into the game plan outside the redzone

Didnt say Plax could. Meant to say, if Sanchez knew how to throw to him, he should have benefited from those guys stretching the field. Keller is a very athletic TE, sending him up the seam or across the middle opens up the field. Kerley may have been a stretch. Though I do wish we got him involved earlier in the season. He's going to be a player.

[Lupz27]

Didnt say Plax could. Meant to say, if Sanchez knew how to throw to him, he should have benefited from those guys stretching the field. Keller is a very athletic TE, sending him up the seam or across the middle opens up the field. Kerley may have been a stretch. Though I do wish we got him involved earlier in the season. He's going to be a player.

Totally agree on Kerley, more than likely Sanchez is our QB for the foreseeable future, and it seemed Kerley was the only WR he trusted, and can see a real connection happening with the 2 with some more time to further develop that connection, I think Wayne Chrebet type WR with him very reliable, and great 3rd down option from the slot, just want to add a deep threat at #2 to open up more space for him and Keller for that matter.

Im also in the minority it appears that Sanchez can be our guy to get us where we want to go with the right system, and skill players. There is gonna be a year or 2 where the GREAT QB (there is only 5 of these guys) doesn't win the SB, and I believe the Jets with Sanchez and a Ryan defense is enough to get it done, as long as they (FO, and coaching staff) get things straightened out. I guess we will see this season if they get things moving in the right direction (I don't believe SB or bust, but progress, and consistency throughout (talent, attitude, coaching, personnel descisions, which should all equal winning).

Wow it's pretty crazy that only 6 active QB's have started, and won the SB (those 6 won 9 of the last 10, and the last 8) prior to 06 it was only 4 with 2 of them being retired now. Since 96 11 QB's won the SB of the 11, 4 are no doubt HOFers (Favre, Elway, Brady, P. Manning) 1 has a good shot (Warner) 2 are on there way (Brees, Roethlisberger) 1 has the opportunity with 1 more SB win and 5 more good seasons (E. Manning), and 1 looks like he is on the fast track (Aaron Rodgers). So 2 teams with average QB's have won a SB during this time, with the right team around him, the question is can Sanchez be the 3rd, can he step up to Eli's status with 1, and threatening for a 2nd, or is he just another guy who played QB in the NFL, and couldn't take that next step (82% of starters fall here right now). To be fair Roethlisberger's 1st, and Eli's could be put in that average QB with the right team around him, they both proven to be able to carry a team since, but at the time needed a great team around them.

[BroadwayJ667]

Im also in the minority it appears that Sanchez can be our guy to get us where we want to go with the right system, and skill players. There is gonna be a year or 2 where the GREAT QB (there is only 5 of these guys) doesn't win the SB, and I believe the Jets with Sanchez and a Ryan defense is enough to get it done, as long as they (FO, and coaching staff) get things straightened out. I guess we will see this season if they get things moving in the right direction (I don't believe SB or bust, but progress, and consistency throughout (talent, attitude, coaching, personnel descisions, which should all equal winning).

As much as I am down on him for the way it appeared Mark quit or didn't care in the final game, I still have hope in him. So I guess I'm in the minority with you. The thing is that was so missing in this offense, and one of Mark's strengths was the deep pass. He throws a terrific deep ball as I'll show, and in a run heavy offense it would really help out the backs. I get that they didn't have a vertical threat this year and the line gave almost no time, but to never call vertical passes was assinine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2EYZnFUpgA

[BroadwayJ667]

[BroadwayJ667]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS1lhXKwbgw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkopzVbcXkQ&feature=related

So tell me again that this wasn't missing from the 2011 offense. Mark is not a complete quarterback, but he certainly isn't a bum, In fact he is the perfect quarterback for the offense Rex wants to run. The offense that was run in 2011 didn't mesh. consistently running 10+ possesion drives is unrealistic in the NFL, and it creates too many opportunites to turn the ball over. Mark can run a dink and dunk offense on occasion but it's not his strength.

Mark works best in a misdirection offense, based off a strong run game. When he rolls out of the pocket, more often with a run action it helps him, because it can create a slight separation between the recievers and defenders. His accuracy appears to be a problem but infact it's not as bad as appears. Too often was he called to fit a ball in a tight window. Not his best attribute. He throws the ball with enough accuracy but it was either knocked down or dropped. Yes he does miss wild, but not as much as one would believe.

Offenses have a symbiotic nature, and in 2011 the offensive design was more clash than harmony. There was no ability to make the safeties play 12 yards off the LOS. So the short passing game and running lanes suffered. Did Mark outright stink at times, yeah, and I'll be the first to admit it. (I saw plenty of missed reads or avoiding of certain recievers, *cough* doesn't trust Plax *cough*) But I think you need to look past the eye test and dig a little deeper to see where some of the faults were.

If they protect him and seriously commit to a consistent vertical threat in the offense, you might be pleasantly surprised with Sanchez in 2012.

[Lupz27]

As much as I am down on him for the way it appeared Mark quit or didn't care in the final game, I still have hope in him. So I guess I'm in the minority with you. The thing is that was so missing in this offense, and one of Mark's strengths was the deep pass. He throws a terrific deep ball as I'll show, and in a run heavy offense it would really help out the backs. I get that they didn't have a vertical threat this year and the line gave almost no time, but to never call vertical passes was assinine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2EYZnFUpgA

It's crazy how many terrific, and clutch plays he has made in his short career, not to mention 4 road playoff victories, (granted very little of these happened in 2011, but very little that was good happened in 2011 with the whole team not just Mark) and 1 bad season, from a 25 year old (at the same age Aaron Rodgers just completed his first season as starter going 6-10) everyone wants to throw him to the scrap heap, even thou he had struggles, (every area from Front office to special teams players had struggles this season) he set team season records with TD passes, and total TD's, not to mention every single Jets fan has complained about the O-Coordinator for 6 straight seasons, and now that he is finally gone I guess there venom needs to be placed elsewhere. I think all he needs is a quality system, the right coaching to get him working on the correct things, (instead of this garbage beat into his head like count to 3 check down I mean seriously who would learn and grow with that philosophy its beyond destructive, and thats just 1 example) and continuity with his receivers in this system (STOP INTERCHANGING his receivers every year) Keep Holmes Kerley and Keller, find a long term deep threat at #2, and then start drafting a WR or 2 EVERY draft and slowly work these guys in as the others are departing, this keeps the assembly line moving in this salary cap era, the successful teams in this league have started doing this over the past 3-5 years, (Steelers Wallace, Brown, and Sanders. Packers, Jones, Nelson, and now Cobb, Giants, Manningham, Nicks, and Cruz, Colts, Collie, and Garcon, Pats, Hernandez, and Gronk, (they have tried with a lot of WR's but just missed with them in the draft). All these teams have the QB, and system in place, and continue, and will continue to be successful by slowly and consistently retooling, and replacing aging and to expensive veterans, it has to be done through the draft, and is a never ending process.

Listen I know when things go bad the mob mentality can take over, and the media try's to stir the mob cause it pays the bills, and the first 2 looked at are the HC, and QB, (I'm not gonna lie I'm down on Rex as a HC, but don't want to lose him on the defensive side, so I'm ok letting him try and become a HC, not just a coordinator). Last thing we live in a what have you done lately town, Mark did not deliver lately, but all the REALLISTIC options at replacing him have done less lately, the name heard most is Chad fukin Henne! Seriously? Think back to what you have seen from Henne and then in your heart of hearts awnser this, could Chad Henne with the exact same team Mark had in 2010 lead the Jets to last minute wins in the exact same situations against, Detriot, Denver, Houston, Cleveland, and most importantly against the Colts in the playoffs. And if you do believe this please list reasoning, and some examples to why thanks.

Broadway that last paragraph is not directed at you, it's for the Sanchez sucks group.

[BroadwayJ667]

It's crazy how many terrific, and clutch plays he has made in his short career, not to mention 4 road playoff victories, (granted very little of these happened in 2011, but very little that was good happened in 2011 with the whole team not just Mark) and 1 bad season, from a 25 year old (at the same age Aaron Rodgers just completed his first season as starter going 6-10) everyone wants to throw him to the scrap heap, even thou he had struggles, (every area from Front office to special teams players had struggles this season) he set team season records with TD passes, and total TD's, not to mention every single Jets fan has complained about the O-Coordinator for 6 straight seasons, and now that he is finally gone I guess there venom needs to be placed elsewhere. I think all he needs is a quality system, the right coaching to get him working on the correct things, (instead of this garbage beat into his head like count to 3 check down I mean seriously who would learn and grow with that philosophy its beyond destructive, and thats just 1 example) and continuity with his receivers in this system (STOP INTERCHANGING his receivers every year) Keep Holmes Kerley and Keller, find a long term deep threat at #2, and then start drafting a WR or 2 EVERY draft and slowly work these guys in as the others are departing, this keeps the assembly line moving in this salary cap era, the successful teams in this league have started doing this over the past 3-5 years, (Steelers Wallace, Brown, and Sanders. Packers, Jones, Nelson, and now Cobb, Giants, Manningham, Nicks, and Cruz, Colts, Collie, and Garcon, Pats, Hernandez, and Gronk, (they have tried with a lot of WR's but just missed with them in the draft). All these teams have the QB, and system in place, and continue, and will continue to be successful by slowly and consistently retooling, and replacing aging and to expensive veterans, it has to be done through the draft, and is a never ending process.

Listen I know when things go bad the mob mentality can take over, and the media try's to stir the mob cause it pays the bills, and the first 2 looked at are the HC, and QB, (I'm not gonna lie I'm down on Rex as a HC, but don't want to lose him on the defensive side, so I'm ok letting him try and become a HC, not just a coordinator). Last thing we live in a what have you done lately town, Mark did not deliver lately, but all the REALLISTIC options at replacing him have done less lately, the name heard most is Chad fukin Henne! Seriously? Think back to what you have seen from Henne and then in your heart of hearts awnser this, could Chad Henne with the exact same team Mark had in 2010 lead the Jets to last minute wins in the exact same situations against, Detriot, Denver, Houston, Cleveland, and most importantly against the Colts in the playoffs. And if you do believe this please list reasoning, and some examples to why thanks.

Broadway that last paragraph is not directed at you, it's for the Sanchez sucks group.

I agree. From what we have seen of Sanchez, there has been a lot of good, and yes a lot of bad. However the good is enough to prove to me that he can bring the title to NY, so long as he hasn't given up on himself and gets his swagger back. As you state, he needs someone who helps him cut down on the dumb mistakes and needs recievers he can trust. Way to many times did I see him avoid an open Plaxico. I would hope that they bring back Braylon if he is healthy, because he seemed to me like Mark's safety valve. As for deep threats there are several that can be acquired via the draft - the pair of WRs from Arkansas, or Robert Meachem, who I suspect will be a free agent.

[MTJ06]

This guys is acting like BE is f'ing Randy Moss. Lets not kid ourselves, he's a very average receiver who can stretch the field but making him out to be this game breaking deep threat is absurd. This is the same guy that let a wide open deep ball bounce of his helmet lmfao and was notorious for the dropsees. If he was so good, why was the passing attack so bad

Are you lmfao at this

Whoopsies!....

[MTJ06]

Didnt say Plax could. Meant to say, if Sanchez knew how to throw to him, he should have benefited from those guys stretching the field. Keller is a very athletic TE, sending him up the seam or across the middle opens up the field. Kerley may have been a stretch. Though I do wish we got him involved earlier in the season. He's going to be a player.

Did you ever think that maybe Sanchez didnt have a good rapport with him and maybe Kerley didnt get involved earlier in the season because they were new to the team and didnt have a camp together?

I do agree that Kerley looks like a player. He and Mark seemed to have a good rapport as the year went on.

[TNJet]

Really? You've hated the greatest Vols player ever? weird.

You gotta admit, his passion for the sh*tty QB is urivaled.

Not while he was at Tennesse, just since he has kept my beloved Jets from a superbowl recently. And he always seems to hate the jets, which makes me resent him more. Dudes a hero in orange and a villain in blue. Hard to explain.

[stoicsentry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS1lhXKwbgw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkopzVbcXkQ&feature=related

So tell me again that this wasn't missing from the 2011 offense. Mark is not a complete quarterback, but he certainly isn't a bum, In fact he is the perfect quarterback for the offense Rex wants to run. The offense that was run in 2011 didn't mesh. consistently running 10+ possesion drives is unrealistic in the NFL, and it creates too many opportunites to turn the ball over. Mark can run a dink and dunk offense on occasion but it's not his strength.

Mark works best in a misdirection offense, based off a strong run game. When he rolls out of the pocket, more often with a run action it helps him, because it can create a slight separation between the recievers and defenders. His accuracy appears to be a problem but infact it's not as bad as appears. Too often was he called to fit a ball in a tight window. Not his best attribute. He throws the ball with enough accuracy but it was either knocked down or dropped. Yes he does miss wild, but not as much as one would believe.

Offenses have a symbiotic nature, and in 2011 the offensive design was more clash than harmony. There was no ability to make the safeties play 12 yards off the LOS. So the short passing game and running lanes suffered. Did Mark outright stink at times, yeah, and I'll be the first to admit it. (I saw plenty of missed reads or avoiding of certain recievers, *cough* doesn't trust Plax *cough*) But I think you need to look past the eye test and dig a little deeper to see where some of the faults were.

If they protect him and seriously commit to a consistent vertical threat in the offense, you might be pleasantly surprised with Sanchez in 2012.

It boggles my mind that there wasn't a single play like those in the entire 2011 season. Maybe there was one, I honestly don't remember seeing him pass the ball more than 30 yards through the air. That's just bizarre. I mean consider for all the problems our o-line had, it's not as if we were dead last in sacks. And with Mangold returning from injury and heating up down the stretch, I'm really at a loss as to why they couldn't even *TRY* airing it out a couple times a game. That's GOT to be bad coaching. Probably that plus the injury Mark sustained.

You know a lot of other teams have offensive line issues. Maybe we had the worst line in the league in 2011, but I doubt it. It may kill you at times, but there's no reason why you can't even attempt to throw the ball downfield. You can put in extra tight ends or linemen to block. The extras can be scrubs, fine...whatever. Teams deal with that all the time. They can still take a few shots every game. Why couldn't we?

I also don't think Holmes did him many favors, didn't see that guy stretching the field much. Maybe that was part of the problem...

[JustInFudge]

Are you lmfao at this

Whoopsies!....

That was a bad drop, in a monsoon.

He's the most clutch WR in the game, Jordan didnt make every game winning shot.

And that wasnt as bad as this.

[MTJ06]

That was a bad drop, in a monsoon.

He's the most clutch WR in the game, Jordan didnt make every game winning shot.

And that wasnt as bad as this.

Always an excuse for holmes.....

The only thing that stopped him from catching that ball was his shoulder.

You left out the IMO when you said he was most clutch, and I really hope you arent comparing him to Jordan.

Both drops were equally as bad, but Braylon's was funnier

[JustInFudge]

Always an excuse for holmes.....

The only thing that stopped him from catching that ball was his shoulder.

You left out the IMO when you said he was most clutch, and I really hope you arent comparing him to Jordan.

Both drops were equally as bad, but Braylon's was funnier

Always an excuse for Braylon.

The only thing that stopped him from catching the ball was his hands and brain.

Not comparing to Jordan.

Both sad.

[Scott Dierking]

That was a bad drop, in a monsoon.

He's the most clutch WR in the game, Jordan didnt make every game winning shot.

And that wasnt as bad as this.

"Most clutch WR in the game"????

Jif, this is how you lose all credibility

[CTM]

"Most clutch WR in the game"????

Jif, this is how you lose all credibility

I didn't think jif had any credibility to lose ... But regardless, if you there was such a thing I don't how santonio wouldn't be up on that list.. His amazing sb winning catch immediately moves him into that discussion

[MTJ06]

Always an excuse for Braylon.

The only thing that stopped him from catching the ball was his hands and brain.

Not comparing to Jordan.

Both sad.

Haha. Ive never made an excuse.

I think he was trying to catch that ball with his facemask, going for the no handed catch

[SMC]

I miss Braylon

[SMC]

I didn't think jif had any credibility to lose ... But regardless, if you there was such a thing I don't how santonio wouldn't be up on that list.. His amazing sb winning catch immediately moves him into that discussion

Amazing SB winning catches don't mean sh*t in the long run.

David Tyree had, arguably, the greatest catch in SB history and was out of the NFL 2 yrs later.

[RutgersJetFan]

All I know is that if there is one thing that will settle this argument, and one thing only, it's YouTube highlights.

[Smashmouth]

"Most clutch WR in the game"????

Jif, this is how you lose all credibility

Wait you missed the part about him being top 10 in the NFL

[CTM]

Amazing SB winning catches don't mean sh*t in the long run.

David Tyree had, arguably, the greatest catch in SB history and was out of the NFL 2 yrs later.

Come on.. That was Flukey.. Tyree was never the player Holmes has been

[HessStation]

I miss Braylon Edwards.

[SMC]

Come on.. That was Flukey.. Tyree was never the player Holmes has been

Of course Tyree was never the player Holmes was, but great SB plays don't mean sh*t. It's hyped reputation. Holmes drops as many passes as clutch plays he makes. Plus, he's a bona fide POS.

A trio of Plax, Braylon, and Kerley would have been better for 2011 than what they ended up with. Tanny made the wrong decision on who to retain and, like most every other move Tanny and that fat idiot Rex made this year, it blew up in their faces.

[Smashmouth]

Of course Tyree was never the player Holmes was, but great SB plays don't mean sh*t. It's hyped reputation. Holmes drops as many passes as clutch plays he makes. Plus, he's a bona fide POS.

A trio of Plax, Braylon, and Kerley would have been better for 2011 than what they ended up with. Tanny made the wrong decision on who to retain and, like most every other move Tanny and that fat idiot Rex, it blew up in their faces.

This ! Wonder if they try and get Braylon back ?? Remember in the beginning of the FA signings I said to dump Holmes, retain Braylon, and try to sign Lance Moore ? wonder how that would have worked out. Of course Braylon and Moore were injured but no telling if they would have suffered the same fate as Jets. Imagine Braylon, Plaxico, Moore and a Young Kerley working with a class act like Lance Moore ? Oh well.

[Bleedin Green]

I didn't think jif had any credibility to lose ... But regardless, if you there was such a thing I don't how santonio wouldn't be up on that list.. His amazing sb winning catch immediately moves him into that discussion

That's the problem, the guy is still living on past glory of one game from 3 years ago. He's been vastly overrated ever since that game, and has come nowhere close to ever showing he has the ability to put on that kind of performance on even a slightly regular basis.

[JustInFudge]

"Most clutch WR in the game"????

Jif, this is how you lose all credibility

Cant find the article but its true. I've posted it back during the BE vs. Holmes debate.

He has the most game winning catches in the NFL. That stat was something like no other receiver has more catches in the last 2 minutes of the game that have resulted in a TD or FG.

The guy is clutch. The only other WR who I can think of the consistently catches game winners is Calvin Johnson.

Can you think of any?

[Bleedin Green]

Come on.. That was Flukey.. Tyree was never the player Holmes has been

Holmes has also never been the player some people claim Holmes has been. His first ever year of being a team's #1 receiver was an unmitigated disaster.