Jetman_67 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 We need a Offensive Tackle more than any other position and it should be a veteran!!! Tanny can't go into the season thinking a rookie is going to automatically be ready for the speed and longer games of the NFL. With only 3 Tackles available, you would think that he is going to make it his top priority. Maybe the reason that they took the Hunter cap hit, is that Tanny actually is confident in him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I stopped reading at "today's signings are nice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 We need a Offensive Tackle more than any other position and it should be a veteran!!! Tanny can't go into the season thinking a rookie is going to automatically be ready for the speed and longer games of the NFL. With only 3 Tackles available, you would think that he is going to make it his top priority. Maybe the reason that they took the Hunter cap hit, is that Tanny actually is confident in him? Why would'nt Tanny go into the season with a half assed O-Line ? He certainly did it last year and proclaimed the battle for RT between Ducasse and Hunter while Winston is still out on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The signings from today are barely a pacifier. They are for a #2 QB and #4 WR. Not filling any of the gaping holes this team has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 TONS of tackles still out there tanny is letting the market settle out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetman_67 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 TONS of tackles still out there tanny is letting the market settle out at best there are 3 GOOD Tackles out there. I honestly believe that the guy has confidence in Hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevisIsland610 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I have ZERO confidence that Tanny will make this team better. He had an atrocious off season last year and it wouldn't surprise me if he screws the pooch this year as well. Can you spell OVERRATED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I stopped reading at "today's signings are nice". This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I have ZERO confidence that Tanny will make this team better. He had an atrocious off season last year and it wouldn't surprise me if he screws the pooch this year as well. Can you spell OVERRATED? Last year was a bad off season. Everyone will agree I'm sure, but do you disagree that Tanny ha made more than a couple beautiful and positive moves for this team? Take it easy. He's not perfect, but obviously has learned a thing or two evidenced by his patience this year as opposed to the usual mayhem that surrounds Jets FA period. He's letting the prices drop a little bit. Not forcing moves. I, while uncomfortable as well, like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 at best there are 3 GOOD Tackles out there. I honestly believe that the guy has confidence in Hunter. 3 good available tackles they will probably get visits next week, hopefully 1 comes here chillax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The signings from today are barely a pacifier. They are for a #2 QB and #4 WR. Not filling any of the gaping holes this team has. A #3 QB and #4 WR. Stanton is complete sh*t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 It's a bad offseason. How we give Sanchez 20m gaueanteed and don't get in in the #18 sweepstakes is beyond me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrellegivesmeaboner#24 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 It's a bad offseason. How we give Sanchez 20m gaueanteed and don't get in in the #18 sweepstakes is beyond me Because Manning never wanted us...The Sanchez contract extension has been arguably the best move we have made yet; it freed up space to really get anything done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Earth to Jets fans come in Jets fans. Are you reading me? - We have very little cap space this year. Best we can do is pick up 2nd tier FA's and have a good Draft over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Why would'nt Tanny go into the season with a half assed O-Line ? He certainly did it last year and proclaimed the battle for RT between Ducasse and Hunter while Winston is still out on the market. I know you like to blame virtually all of a certain someone's shortcomings on others, but last year we had a better OL than the superbowl winning Giants, and certainly pass-blocked better than the 49ers who were an official's fumble non-call away from the SB themselves. We went into the season with the same OL we successfully used through the playoffs last year. Hunter was much worse in '11 than he was the season before, but there's no guarantee Woody wouldn't have dropped off significantly himself had he returned. Entering the season with Hunter wasn't the crime. Where the half-assed-edness showed was in sticking with Hunter for all 16 games, and in not looking for a backup center until after Mangold got injured. Just as well since we weren't winning anything last year with the best RT and backup C in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I know you like to blame virtually all of a certain someone's shortcomings on others, but last year we had a better OL than the superbowl winning Giants, and certainly pass-blocked better than the 49ers who were an official's fumble non-call away from the SB themselves. We went into the season with the same OL we successfully used through the playoffs last year. Hunter was much worse in '11 than he was the season before, but there's no guarantee Woody wouldn't have dropped off significantly himself had he returned. Entering the season with Hunter wasn't the crime. Where the half-assed-edness showed was in sticking with Hunter for all 16 games, and in not looking for a backup center until after Mangold got injured. Just as well since we weren't winning anything last year with the best RT and backup C in the league. Sperm I was basing my evaluation of the offensive line on the horrible performance in the preseason of our back ups they were nothing short of terrible. I was concerned going into the season with that horrible group and Turner getting hurt just compounded the problem. Guess what ...our back up situation was a joke and our RT stunk. I was not so much concerned with our starting situation but with Moore coming off surgery and then Mangold getting hurt it basicly proved my point that it would have been nice to have a few O-Lineman as backups that were actully competent. I know you like to blame all the offensive woes on the QB but we lost a lot of key parts last year Blocking TE's Competent Back ups on the oline, a WR to stretch the field, And a true number 1 WR that we have not really had for years and Holmes certainly is not that guy, How about throwing in a few backs who can actully catch the ball and Im not talking 32 year old has beens or Joe ******* McKnight. The fact is the Jets offense was in total dissaray last year and yes part of the issue was Sanchez his stupid turnovers hurt us just as much as the holes across the board. I think he got into the mindset of having to make it all happen and it was too much for him to do by himself. I could only Imagine what was going on behind the scenes with Burress and Holmes adding to the problem and giving up on plays. I think we will see some changes in over all performance this year with Sparano running the offense. I just hope this team realizes that you have to surround your QB with talent if you want to win games. trust me there is a reason why Peyton probably told the Jets early on he had no interest. No way he was coming here with what we have in place.... Why ? Because not only is he a soild athelte hes smart as well. Im sure he knew if he came here the Jets would not be able to sign the players he needed to make it happen and the weather and wind would have been just topo much for Peyton to deal with. After all his record In january is nothing special nor is his record in cold weather games down the stretch. having talent does have a big impact on a QB weather you want to believe that or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Because Manning never wanted us...The Sanchez contract extension has been arguably the best move we have made yet; it freed up space to really get anything done. Exactly. At first the move made me sit in the corner rocking and humming the Big Mac song for a day or so. Now I realize it's about cap space and stability for the locker room rather than the team being sold on Sanchez. They had to do something, letting the Peyton thing run like the Nnamdi thing last year would have cinched a year of turmoil. Still don;t like it but sorta kinda in a way I get it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetman_67 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 I know you like to blame virtually all of a certain someone's shortcomings on others, but last year we had a better OL than the superbowl winning Giants, and certainly pass-blocked better than the 49ers who were an official's fumble non-call away from the SB themselves. We went into the season with the same OL we successfully used through the playoffs last year. Hunter was much worse in '11 than he was the season before, but there's no guarantee Woody wouldn't have dropped off significantly himself had he returned. Entering the season with Hunter wasn't the crime. Where the half-assed-edness showed was in sticking with Hunter for all 16 games, and in not looking for a backup center until after Mangold got injured. Just as well since we weren't winning anything last year with the best RT and backup C in the league. Still, the line needs to be the top priority this off season. If we are going to be a contender for a Superbowl, first we need to sweep the Patsies in a business as usual fashion. Without a stronger line, its not going to happen. Brick needs to step it up as well as replace Hunter as a starter. If they want to keep Hunter as a backup, he will fit that role. My issue with hunter is not just the sacks he gave up, but he had more holding penalties than anyone else. I am willing to bet if someone wanted to take the time to look up the stats, he alone had more holding penalties in 2011 than the entire line did in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevisIsland610 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Last year was a bad off season. Everyone will agree I'm sure, but do you disagree that Tanny ha made more than a couple beautiful and positive moves for this team? Take it easy. He's not perfect, but obviously has learned a thing or two evidenced by his patience this year as opposed to the usual mayhem that surrounds Jets FA period. He's letting the prices drop a little bit. Not forcing moves. I, while uncomfortable as well, like it. Yes, he has made some very good moves in his tenure but I feel he has made alot of bad moves as well, especially lately. His job is to put more talent on the field. Last years moves, or non-moves, were mind-boggling. He spent so much time courting Asamua that he forgot all the other positions that needed to be upgraded, such as safety help(don't even get me started here), offensive line depth, LB depth, letting our punter sign with the giants and signing a scrub, Derrick Mason debacle, etc. I think there is a bit of organizational arrogance between him and Rex that they feel they can bring in any scrub and we can turn them into an all-pro. Thats not the way it works. Alot of you guys think Tanny walks on water. He doesn't. He is average. Last years team was 8-8 and an embarrassment at times. This year I'm hoping for the best but not expecting much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Still, the line needs to be the top priority this off season. If we are going to be a contender for a Superbowl, first we need to sweep the Patsies in a business as usual fashion. Without a stronger line, its not going to happen. Brick needs to step it up as well as replace Hunter as a starter. If they want to keep Hunter as a backup, he will fit that role. My issue with hunter is not just the sacks he gave up, but he had more holding penalties than anyone else. I have no problem with any OL upgrades (as though anyone would) and Hunter ****ing sucks for a starter. My point was that the Giants OL was worse in both pass blocking and run blocking (both by considerable amounts), had a similar number of penalties, and they won the SB over those very same Patriots. So much for that excuse for not winning the SB. I am willing to bet if someone wanted to take the time to look up the stats, he alone had more holding penalties in 2011 than the entire line did in 2010. The 2010 Jets had the 12th-fewest penalties in the NFL. The 2011 Jets - with Hunter's total plus everyone else's - had the 11th-fewest. Further, the Jets attempted dozens more QB dropbacks in 2011 compared to the year before. It's hard to find individuals' penalty totals but unless there was an incredible difference league-wide in the number of OL penalties called from 2010 to 2011, or the proportion of Jets OL false starts to holding penalties changed dramatically, it seems clear that you would lose that bet pretty badly. For the record, the most penalized per play seems to be Mulligan by a large margin (no surprise there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I have no problem with any OL upgrades (as though anyone would) and Hunter ****ing sucks for a starter. My point was that the Giants OL was worse in both pass blocking and run blocking (both by considerable amounts), had a similar number of penalties, and they won the SB over those very same Patriots. So much for that excuse for not winning the SB. The 2010 Jets had the 12th-fewest penalties in the NFL. The 2011 Jets - with Hunter's total plus everyone else's - had the 11th-fewest. Further, the Jets attempted dozens more QB dropbacks in 2011 compared to the year before. It's hard to find individuals' penalty totals but unless there was an incredible difference league-wide in the number of OL penalties called from 2010 to 2011, or the proportion of Jets OL false starts to holding penalties changed dramatically, it seems clear that you would lose that bet pretty badly. For the record, the most penalized per play seems to be Mulligan by a large margin (no surprise there). I'M IGNORING ALL OF THIS BECAUSE IT IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH MY WORLDVIEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetman_67 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Further, the Jets attempted dozens more QB dropbacks in 2011 compared to the year before. The year before, the passing game was set up by the run, and Sanchez was very successful with his play action. When the running game is working, he has a wicked play action. As far as the line is concerned, when he has protection, Sanchez is great at directing his receivers when they are not open, during the play. Bottome line, if the line is not upgraded, the offense will fail again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The year before, the passing game was set up by the run, and Sanchez was very successful with his play action. When the running game is working, he has a wicked play action. This is mostly true. I think he is very good at selling his play-action fake. It is not "wicked" but it is good. Still, that is hardly a reliable plan for an offense to generate points with regularity. A good QB is supposed to make those around him better rather than everyone else firing on all cylinders all the time to make the QB look moderately acceptable overall. As far as the line is concerned, when he has protection, Sanchez is great at directing his receivers when they are not open, during the play. Bottome line, if the line is not upgraded, the offense will fail again. No he isn't. Let me guess, you're basing this on the 2 busted plays over the past 3 seasons where he pointed which way he wanted his receiver to go. That is more a function of him staring down one player and the law of averages dictating this will happen at least this number of times. Sanchez is "great" at absolutely nothing except sulking and staring down his receiver. He's money on those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetman_67 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 For the record, the most penalized per play seems to be Mulligan by a large margin (no surprise there). Hunter had more penalties. In fact he had the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Sanchez is "great" at absolutely nothing except sulking and staring down his receiver. He's money on those things. sperm you are too deep down the Sanchez sucks rat hole. we all know he's flawed. but they weren't gonna upgrade on him in 2012. they literally had no other options that were better than Sanchez. also people bring up Vernon Gholston an awful lot. he was cut after seasons. is Sanchez really that bad, vernon level bad that they should cut him after 3 seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Because Manning never wanted us...The Sanchez contract extension has been arguably the best move we have made yet; it freed up space to really get anything done. And killed us for the future. If we were going to do that should have thrown coin at 18. With the right coin he would have wanted in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge o8 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 wimble olb a good player worth a look?? we need tu put brady on his a$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 sperm you are too deep down the Sanchez sucks rat hole. we all know he's flawed. but they weren't gonna upgrade on him in 2012. they literally had no other options that were better than Sanchez. also people bring up Vernon Gholston an awful lot. he was cut after seasons. is Sanchez really that bad, vernon level bad that they should cut him after 3 seasons? If he gets badly outplayed in preseason then yes. No one has a QB with no guaranteed money coming to him, sitting on the bench and collecting a $12M salary. The Jets refuse to find out because of the humiliation that goes along with that combined with their refusal to accept that Sanchez isn't nearly what they wanted him to be. Despite the shortcomings on the team, we have been good enough to win a superbowl with an above-average QB and we've pissed it away force-feeding Sanchez on 50 other players. This has been the equivalent of SD handing over the best roster in football to Norv Turner, or Tony Dungy forcing Shaun King onto a SB team. Truth is we were in no rush to do this with Sanchez before FA started and if a "just try to move the chains and don't turn it over" QB is what they wanted it now seems possible they could have waited out Alex Smith who would then come at an enormous discount over Sanchez. It's amazing that the team claims they explore all options and come to the conclusion that the best possible option for the team is that a bottom-tier starter - at the most important position on the field by far - should never have to compete with another legitimate NFL player for 5 years in a row. I'm not even saying it's a sure thing he'd lose such a competition; what I object to is their unwillingness to find out year after year after year. And then fans buy into this to the point where someone such as yourself, whose passion is evaluating NFL players and prospects, says that Peyton Manning now sucks and that Mark Sanchez is a better QB. What they did was the worst possible thing a franchise can do with a player who clearly isn't living up to his billing. They had him in a contract with no more guaranteed money, where they can now tell him to perform like a top 5-10 QB (or at least beat out someone else for the job) or the experiment is over. Instead they guaranteed him 2 more years at starter and bring in Drew Stanton to replace Mark Brunell. Don't tell me they had no choice. They clearly did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Yes, he has made some very good moves in his tenure but I feel he has made alot of bad moves as well, especially lately. His job is to put more talent on the field. Last years moves, or non-moves, were mind-boggling. He spent so much time courting Asamua that he forgot all the other positions that needed to be upgraded, such as safety help(don't even get me started here), offensive line depth, LB depth, letting our punter sign with the giants and signing a scrub, Derrick Mason debacle, etc. I think there is a bit of organizational arrogance between him and Rex that they feel they can bring in any scrub and we can turn them into an all-pro. Thats not the way it works. Alot of you guys think Tanny walks on water. He doesn't. He is average. Last years team was 8-8 and an embarrassment at times. This year I'm hoping for the best but not expecting much. Don't get me wrong. Last year was absolutely heart breaking to me. Losing guys like Ellis, Cotch, B. Smith, Coleman, Edwards and Lowery and filling them with a Rookie, Mason, Plax and no one (at the safety position) was almost too much to take. What I have to remember is that last year was a situation which never happened before with the lockout and the madhouse FA period after the draft. We seem to remove the facts from what last year was like. There was no precident to follow. Now... The pursuit of Aso last year was ultimately a mistake and we obviously mishandled a lot of other things while we had stars in our eyes. Last year was terrible. No doubt. On top of it we paid a number 2 WR 10 mil a year. UGH!!! I also agree that we became arrogant. But arrogance comes from success. We were seemingly able to nab anyone we wanted up until 2010. We had a bad year (not removing that we've made some mistakes as well before) and now everyone is going nuts. Calling for Rex's head at the end of the season. Calling for Tanny's head now. I am hoping, and it seems true as of now, that our Front office has learned to take things a little slower and think things out before jumping in the fire. Over all, Tanny's and Rex's record are in the black. They have given us plenty to root for over their tenures and I think they should be given a valid opportunity to right the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 This is mostly true. I think he is very good at selling his play-action fake. It is not "wicked" but it is good. Still, that is hardly a reliable plan for an offense to generate points with regularity. A good QB is supposed to make those around him better rather than everyone else firing on all cylinders all the time to make the QB look moderately acceptable overall. No he isn't. Let me guess, you're basing this on the 2 busted plays over the past 3 seasons where he pointed which way he wanted his receiver to go. That is more a function of him staring down one player and the law of averages dictating this will happen at least this number of times. Sanchez is "great" at absolutely nothing except sulking and staring down his receiver. He's money on those things. Actually, you and I had a discussion on red zone earlier, where Sanchez is very successful. But you love to leave that out as you pull your soap box out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Actually, you and I had a discussion on red zone earlier, where Sanchez is very successful. But you love to leave that out as you pull your soap box out. I did have that discussion with you but I don't recall you being able to point to anything he did to make it successful any more than I can point to Brian Schottenheimer and Plaxico Burress making it successful. In short, it is a stat that you cannot pinpoint to Mark Sanchez making successful in ways that others would have fallen short. I recall pointing to games like Buffalo which had a tremendous effect on his year-end RZ "efficiency" and it was bolstered by passes to open receivers plus Keller taking his off-target pass and breaking tackles and running into the endzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I did have that discussion with you but I don't recall you being able to point to anything he did to make it successful any more than I can point to Brian Schottenheimer and Plaxico Burress making it successful. In short, it is a stat that you cannot pinpoint to Mark Sanchez making successful in ways that others would have fallen short. I recall pointing to games like Buffalo which had a tremendous effect on his year-end RZ "efficiency" and it was bolstered by passes to open receivers plus Keller taking his off-target pass and breaking tackles and running into the endzone. It is odd-When you want to show a player fails at something, you point to individual stats that support the cause. When a player that you don't support succeeds at something, you want to mention how the rest of the team helped that success. Quite a simple way to dissuade discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 It is odd-When you want to show a player fails at something, you point to individual stats that support the cause. When a player that you don't support succeeds at something, you want to mention how the rest of the team helped that success. Quite a simple way to dissuade discussions. I tried showing you how a good number of Sanchez's "success" plays was due to those around him rather than Sanchez himself. You choose not to pay attention to it. Sorry if I didn't keep season-long running lists of every play Sanchez got bailed out of or made easy by others, or screwed up completely on his own, knowing that I know I owe it to you to do so, in order to better make a more complete argument on a message board. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I tried showing you how a good number of Sanchez's "success" plays was due to those around him rather than Sanchez himself. You choose not to pay attention to it. Sorry if I didn't keep season-long running lists of every play Sanchez got bailed out of or made easy by others, or screwed up completely on his own, knowing that I know I owe it to you to do so, in order to better make a more complete argument on a message board. My bad. And I could show you a great number of negative plays that Sanchez caused, that were a result of bad plays around him. You choose not to see that. It goes both ways. I am not trying to say Sanchez is any superstar. But, to listen to some of you make this a totally 100% argument the other way, without any reasonability is old. We get that you don't like him as a QB. But try a modicum of objectivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 And I could show you a great number of negative plays that Sanchez caused, that were a result of bad plays around him. You choose not to see that. It goes both ways. I am not trying to say Sanchez is any superstar. But, to listen to some of you make this a totally 100% argument the other way, without any reasonability is old. We get that you don't like him as a QB. But try a modicum of objectivity. No one expects Sanchez to never make mistakes or to have a 70% completion percentage or a 5:1 TD:pick ratio. He is so far away from what he needs to be that it was foolish to extend him, by guaranteeing this year or next year or any year, until after he's shown dramatic improvement on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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