Cavanaugh on Sanchez

[slats]

So you basically think any half way above average QB (cause that is basically what you think Aikman was) would have the exact same production as Aikman if you plug them into Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys?

Or better. Probably better.

Doesn't that sound a bit outlandish when you actually look at the statistics Aikman had during those Super Bowl runs?

No.

He was the best player on the field during one of those Super Bowls.

O rly? Because he won the MVP one time? They give it to the winning QB when they don't know what else to do with it. In his other two Bowls, they did.

[jbone]

Your reasoning is faulty and here is why:

Production wise here are a bunch of other guys who had seasons where they had more production in YDS and/or TDs while Aikman was competing. Some of these guys had much better seasons when you limit your variables to YDs and TDs than Aikman at one point or another, but they were no where near the QB he was: Erik Kramer, Scott Mitchell, Jeff Blake, Testaverde, Chris Miller, Neil O'donnell, Jim Harbaugh, Jeff Hostetter, Chris Chandler, Steve Bono, Stan Humphries, Dave Kreig, Craig Ericson and Steve Beuerlein.

By your reasoning, some of these guys would be considered "better" than Aikman. There isn't one guy I would rather have on my team instead of Aikman. Both as a leader and a QB.

Your first and second answer pretty much confirms my notion you have some unreasonable opinions regarding Aikman and/or the Cowboys. So I am officially done with you. This has been a waste of time.

[afosomf]

I've provided plenty of numbers that you've chosen to ignore.

In Sanchez' third season, he threw for more yards and TDs than Aikman ever did in any season. Sanchez' career TD % is higher than Aikman's. He's done this with far less at his disposal than Aikman had during his prime. Far less.

Sanchez has played very well in stretches, and very poorly on other stretches. He needs to up his consistency. Improve his comp %, and cut down on the poor decisions. That's the difference between being erratic and being a capable game manager - like Troy Aikman! Statistically, as demonstrated thru the use of numbers, he's already very close.

Sanchez is playin in Pussified Era, i very much doubt he could have taken any of the blasts Aikman took, with that i say Cmon Man

Sanchez will never win a SB not a one

[slats]

Your reasoning is faulty and here is why:

Production wise here are a bunch of other guys who had seasons where they had more production in YDS and/or TDs while Aikman was competing. Some of these guys had much better seasons when you limit your variables to YDs and TDs than Aikman at one point or another, but they were no where near the QB he was: Erik Kramer, Scott Mitchell, Jeff Blake, Testaverde, Chris Miller, Neil O'donnell, Jim Harbaugh, Jeff Hostetter, Chris Chandler, Steve Bono, Stan Humphries, Dave Kreig, Craig Ericson and Steve Beuerlein.

A lot of those guys also had better QBRs than Aikman in any given year, too. Harbaugh, Miller, Rypien, etc. so much for that awesome stat as well, I guess.

It's the guys who were on top of both production and efficiency that are the elites. When Aikman posted a 99 efficiency rating, Steve Young posted a 101.5, while simultaneously throwing for 877 more yards and 14 more TDs. it's the guys who produce efficiently that get the elite label. Aikman only gets into the conversation because of the quality of the team around him.

By your reasoning, some of these guys would be considered "better" than Aikman. There isn't one guy I would rather have on my team instead of Aikman. Both as a leader and a QB.

Your first and second answer pretty much confirms my notion you have some unreasonable opinions regarding Aikman and/or the Cowboys. So I am officially done with you. This has been a waste of time.

Aikman may've been a leader, but he was no great QB. He was simply an efficient game manager. It's really not a knock on him, as I said from the onset, I'd be very happy if Sanchez could achieve that level of play, and I think it's within his reach.

As for the Cowboys, I actually used to root for them back in the Roger Staubach days when I was a kid. Roger was elite, and being a Jet fan in the 70's was painful.

[T0mShane]

Yeah, not getting the AIkmen thing. He's clearly a better player thus far and it's not even close

Maybe they can get him to be Alex Smith first, then, later, Aikman.

[Smashmouth]

I love how Cavanaugh can tell you all that went wrong last year, but had no ability to fix it while it was going on. Why is he back?

If the offense has problems across the board how does a QB coach fix that ? Im not a big fan of Cavanaugh but in all fairness I think a lot of the Jets problems on offense the last 6 years in the passing game was due to Brian Shottenheimer so in that respect Cavanaugh deserves a chance as well.

[Smashmouth]

Can't argue with you on your point regarding Smith and Irvin. They were great players. But, Mark had the benefit of having one of the best OLs in football his first 2 years.

The Jets O-Line was good overall, they were great running the football and "decent" pass protecting. But they were not even remotely close to what the Cowboys OL was in the early to mid 90's. Aikman also had a HOF TE, HOF Fullback, and HOF WR along with the top defense in the NFL at the time.They ran a simple offense and dared you to stop them and since I happen to live in Dallas and hated them with a freakin passion I got to watch them totaly take over games in the 4th quarter. Make no mistake the Cowboys OL was the best to ever play the game next closest was the Raiders of the 70's. Sorry but the Jets are not in that league

[Smashmouth]

No. But it is living, breathing proof that you can win in this league with a game manager type QB. Sanchez wasn't even that.

Yet he played damn good in the playoffs both years. Aganist the Colts he took us to a 17-6 lead by going 5-7 for 124 yards and 2 TD's which are pretty explosive numbers then the first drive of the second half he takes into field goal range only to miss a 44 yarder. After that it was Manning eating up our defense.

[ZachEY]

There's no reason Sanchez can't do that or better.

Salary Cap. The End.

[dbatesman]

The elite Troy Aikman never threw for more yards or TDs than Sanchez did last year.

In his time, using the available data, you can look it up and see that Aikman often had trouble breaking into the top 20 in passing yards and TDs. Bottom third stuff. Sanchez was 15th and 9th, respectively, in what everyone considers a poor year.

In Aikman's elite QBR years, his NFL raking in those categories were:

91 - 16th in yards, 17th in TDs (his third season, worse than Sanchez' rankings in his third season)

92 - 4th, 4th (by far his best season, still falls behind Sanchez' totals from last season)

93 - 10th, 10th

94 - 16th, 20th

95 - 13th, 20th

Guy was a middle of the pack JAG compared to the QBs of his era, he just got to play for an awesome team.

There's no reason Sanchez can't do that or better.

You can't be serious with this. Aikman finished in the top 10 in DVOA in six different seasons, including three in the top 3. Sanchez has yet to crack the top 27. Before you give me the age thing, keep in mind that in Aikman's third season, he completed 65.3% of his passes at 6.95 AY/A (7th) and was 6th in the league in passer rating.

[Smashmouth]

Maybe they can get him to be Alex Smith first, then, later, Aikman.

Watch Alex Smith throw 20 + TD's and under 10 Ints and he still wont get any recognition after the nonsense of dealing with constant offensive changes his entire career. I think this may be the first time the guy is in the same offense 2 years in a row and the Niners went out and added some talent for him this year. I cant wait to see how this guy sticks it in peoples faces and I will be enjoying every minute of it.

[slats]

You can't be serious with this. Aikman finished in the top 10 in DVOA in six different seasons, including three in the top 3. Sanchez has yet to crack the top 27. Before you give me the age thing, keep in mind that in Aikman's third season, he completed 65.3% of his passes at 6.95 AY/A (7th) and was 6th in the league in passer rating.

He was surrounded by HoF'ers.

Sanchez needs to improve. Nowhere have I said that he's at Aikman's level now.

But Sanchez would be a lot better managing a team with that kind of talent. Conversely, you put Aikman on this Jets team running Schottenheimer's offense, and he'd be a lot worse. Once the talent around Aikman started to deteriorate, so did his performance.

[Smashmouth]

He was surrounded by HoF'ers.

Sanchez needs to improve. Nowhere have I said that he's at Aikman's level now.

But Sanchez would be a lot better managing a team with that kind of talent. Conversely, you put Aikman on this Jets team running Schottenheimer's offense, and he'd be a lot worse. Once the talent around Aikman started to deteriorate, so did his performance.

This !

[Villain The Foe]

1.) I don't understand why Cavanaugh was retained in the first place.

2.) Nothing wrong with being a game manager. Phil Simms was a game manager, Troy Aikman was a game manager. In the Jets' run first, defense oriented style, a game manager is what you want in a QB. Which is why Sanchez has to watch his back. Tebow can also be molded into a game manager.

This.

And Troy Aikman was the best game manager of my time. A HOF QB that simply managed football games. Nothing's wrong with that, yet for some reason fans and analyst alike have demonize the term. Then again, in a league where its a 15 yard penalty to even touch a QB (certain QB's I should say) and pass interference simply for jockeying for position with a WR, everyone expects their QB to throw for 5000 yards and 30+ TD's a season. No one wants a "Game Manager" in this type of league we have today.

As a side note, this type of regulation which has allowed for the offense to go wild is one of the reasons why Darrelle Revis is so valuable.

[Integrity28]

No, it's not.. This is a team that 2x got there via the wildcard round, without even hosting a single game. The first time they were only in because the Colts had nothing to play for. Thyy were 2x the exception, not the rule

Fqrancessa? Is that you?

[Integrity28]

This !

Didn't they all age at the same rate?

[Smashmouth]

Didn't they all age at the same rate?

I see your point OP but the way the Cowboys played football took a huge toll on their players, Irvin and Novacek were constantly taking big hits Emmit Smith was a total workhorse and Daryl Johnson is a mess. They went all in for those SB's and they got a good 4-5 years out of those guys. They were a ball control offense not a quick strike offense and that takes a huge toll on players. Also part of the reason their defense was so great was because the Cowboys held onto the ball so much it was ridiculous. Im not sure on this, but I would be willing to bet some of those great Cowboy teams are tops in NFL history in Time of Posession. Im not sure there was any way possible that team could have kept up the pace they did for more than 5 years sure some of those guys got their numbers but as a team they were beat down. They were a true Smashmouth football team

[Integrity28]

I see your point OP but the way the Cowboys played football took a huge toll on their players, Irvin and Novacek were constantly taking big hits Emmit Smith was a total workhorse and Daryl Johnson is a mess. They went all in for those SB's and they got a good 4-5 years out of those guys. They were a ball control offense not a quick strike offense and that takes a huge toll on players. Also part of the reason their defense was so great was because the Cowboys held onto the ball so much it was ridiculous. Im not sure on this, but I would be willing to bet some of those great Cowboy teams are tops in NFL history in Time of Posession. Im not sure there was any way possible that team could have kept up the pace they did for more than 5 years sure some of those guys got their numbers but as a team they were beat down. They were a true Smashmouth football teams

Yeah, I know all that. But you insinuated that Aikman's success was directly tied those around him. Impossible to speculate something like that without considering that as their abilities waned because of age, so did his. Sure you are partially right, but he got old with them, and that had something to do with it too.

You keep making arguments that are speculative, then citing a bunch of fringe things that don't consider all the variables... Like in this case, all the reasons Aikman's career trailed off... Not just those around him getting old, but he himself.

[slats]

Yeah, I know all that. But you insinuated that Aikman's success was directly tied those around him. Impossible to speculate something like that without considering that as their abilities waned because of age, so did his. Sure you are partially right, but he got old with them, and that had something to do with it too.

But Aikman got mysteriously old at the age of 31, usually the age where a QB is right in the prime of his career. He hit that number, and never completed more than 60% of his passes again. He threw for 23 TDs at the age of 26, then never threw more than 19 the rest of his career.

I don't understand why this is even a debate. Guy was a quality game manager surrounded by HoF talent.

[Smashmouth]

But Aikman got mysteriously old at the age of 31, usually the age where a QB is right in the prime of his career. He hit that number, and never completed more than 60% of his passes again. He threw for 23 TDs at the age of 26, then never threw more than 19 the rest of his career.

I don't understand why this is even a debate. Guy was a quality game manager surrounded by HoF talent.

And hes the poster boy for my arguement that surrounding a good QB with great talent will get you a good chance at a SB victory.

[jbone]

The Jets O-Line was good overall, they were great running the football and "decent" pass protecting. But they were not even remotely close to what the Cowboys OL was in the early to mid 90's. Aikman also had a HOF TE, HOF Fullback, and HOF WR along with the top defense in the NFL at the time.They ran a simple offense and dared you to stop them and since I happen to live in Dallas and hated them with a freakin passion I got to watch them totaly take over games in the 4th quarter. Make no mistake the Cowboys OL was the best to ever play the game next closest was the Raiders of the 70's. Sorry but the Jets are not in that league

Obviously you read where I said "Marks first 2 years". And statistically, I am correct. Sanchez actually has had the better offensive line so far in his career , when compared to the same time period in Aikman's (89-91). Nate Netwon and Stepnoski didn't make their first pro bowls until Aikman's 4th year. Johnston didn't make his first pro bowl until 1993 (he also isn't in the HOF yet so get too over zealous here).

Sanchez has played with 5 pro bowl offensive linemen in his first 3 years compared to Aikman's 0.

I could add further statistics to prove my point but I think you understand.

[SenorGato]

I think it is pretty clear, all things being equal, and both at 100% physical/mental capacity, Stafford is significantly more talented. It's not very close either, especially with the monster numbers Stafford was able to put up last year. I just dont ever see Sanchez being able to do some of the tings Stafford is able to. Like throw for 5,000 yds and 40 TDs in a season with a 63% completion rate. I would be ecstatic if he can get 4000yds and 30TDs while cutting down on the T/Os.

I know, I know......Sanchez doesnt have Calvin Johnson; if he did then he would have identical numbers. Lol

Physically Stafford has the better arm. After that eh...Sanchez has physical talent.

Calvin Johnson + a dome is a great help in putting up those numbers, but yes he's also outplayed the Sanchize up to this point.

[Klecko73isGod]

Obviously you read where I said "Marks first 2 years". And statistically, I am correct. Sanchez actually has had the better offensive line so far in his career , when compared to the same time period in Aikman's (89-91). Nate Netwon and Stepnoski didn't make their first pro bowls until Aikman's 4th year. Johnston didn't make his first pro bowl until 1993 (he also isn't in the HOF yet so get too over zealous here).

Sanchez has played with 5 pro bowl offensive linemen in his first 3 years compared to Aikman's 0.

I could add further statistics to prove my point but I think you understand.

Dude, you're splitting hairs now. The Cowboys of the 90s had one of, if not the, greatest offensive line of all time.

[slats]

Nate Netwon and Stepnoski didn't make their first pro bowls until Aikman's 4th year. Johnston didn't make his first pro bowl until 1993 (he also isn't in the HOF yet so get too over zealous here).

Sanchez has played with 5 pro bowl offensive linemen in his first 3 years compared to Aikman's 0.

I think you're young. Are you young?

Using Pro Bowls as a measure of greatness is weak. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. Once you're voted in one year, you're immediately the favorite the next year. This is especially true on the OL, where players don't really have stats or the name recognition to get past the incumbent pro bowler.

That said, the argument that those guys didn't make the pro bowl until Aikman's fourth year means what, exactly? Aikman's forth year was his best year as a pro. That was the year that put those Cowboys on the map. It's the only year he ever thru more than 20 TD passes, or had a TD % higher than 4.

The Johnston thing is a joke, too. Did you know that prior to Johnston, the pro bowl didn't have a spot for a FB? They created it for him! Haha!

For Aikman, the talent around him was developing at the same time he was. If you were comparing just the players' first two seasons, Sanchez wins. But years 3 & 4, the talent around Aikman was peaking. That OL, Irvin, Smith, Johnston... All in their prime, all working together for years. Once that talent around him starting dropping off, Aikman was gone at a young age.

[The Crusher]

The Jets O-Line was good overall, they were great running the football and "decent" pass protecting. But they were not even remotely close to what the Cowboys OL was in the early to mid 90's. Aikman also had a HOF TE, HOF Fullback, and HOF WR along with the top defense in the NFL at the time.They ran a simple offense and dared you to stop them and since I happen to live in Dallas and hated them with a freakin passion I got to watch them totaly take over games in the 4th quarter. Make no mistake the Cowboys OL was the best to ever play the game next closest was the Raiders of the 70's. Sorry but the Jets are not in that league

Redskins Hogs would have to be in the conversation of best lines. I thinks.

[afosomf]

I think you're young. Are you young?

Using Pro Bowls as a measure of greatness is weak. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. Once you're voted in one year, you're immediately the favorite the next year. This is especially true on the OL, where players don't really have stats or the name recognition to get past the incumbent pro bowler.

That said, the argument that those guys didn't make the pro bowl until Aikman's fourth year means what, exactly? Aikman's forth year was his best year as a pro. That was the year that put those Cowboys on the map. It's the only year he ever thru more than 20 TD passes, or had a TD % higher than 4.

The Johnston thing is a joke, too. Did you know that prior to Johnston, the pro bowl didn't have a spot for a FB? They created it for him! Haha!

For Aikman, the talent around him was developing at the same time he was. If you were comparing just the players' first two seasons, Sanchez wins. But years 3 & 4, the talent around Aikman was peaking. That OL, Irvin, Smith, Johnston... All in their prime, all working together for years. Once that talent around him starting dropping off, Aikman was gone at a young age.

Slats seriously go back and watch gametapes of aikman, to make any comparison with Nacho is silly

[slats]

Slats seriously go back and watch gametapes of aikman, to make any comparison with Nacho is silly

This conversation got derailed. Aikman would rate no higher than a Bernie Kosar (very similar numbers, in an overlapping era, with worse teams) if he ended up anywhere else in the league. He won three championships with an amazing team, though, and as the QB, he gets a lot of credit. I stand by that.

The complaint was that the Jets shouldn't get a game manager with a #5 overall pick. The Cowboys won Championships with a game manager drafted #1 overall.

Aikman came into his own as the talent around him peaked. In Sanchez' third year, his OL had an off year, LT was at the end, His WR situation sucked, and he still put up bests in TDs and yards. He's demonstrated that he can lead comeback wins. He's performed well in the post season. What he needs to do is to put it together consistently. All he really needs to do it cut down on the mental errors, and he'll be very close to there. He has the physical talent.

Will he do it? That's another question. But performing up to the level of Troy Aikman is not a high bar.

[Sperm Edwards]

I think you're young. Are you young?

Using Pro Bowls as a measure of greatness is weak. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. Once you're voted in one year, you're immediately the favorite the next year. This is especially true on the OL, where players don't really have stats or the name recognition to get past the incumbent pro bowler.

That said, the argument that those guys didn't make the pro bowl until Aikman's fourth year means what, exactly? Aikman's forth year was his best year as a pro. That was the year that put those Cowboys on the map. It's the only year he ever thru more than 20 TD passes, or had a TD % higher than 4.

The Johnston thing is a joke, too. Did you know that prior to Johnston, the pro bowl didn't have a spot for a FB? They created it for him! Haha!

For Aikman, the talent around him was developing at the same time he was. If you were comparing just the players' first two seasons, Sanchez wins. But years 3 & 4, the talent around Aikman was peaking. That OL, Irvin, Smith, Johnston... All in their prime, all working together for years. Once that talent around him starting dropping off, Aikman was gone at a young age.

In no way did Aikman carry that team, but I think you're a little slight on crediting his ability. In short, you're equating his not being asked to rack up tons of yards with him not having the ability to do so. When a passer is top-4 in pass yards for 4 of 5 straight seasons, including 3 in a row in the top 2-3, then the total passing yards is more indicative of the number of attempts rather than anything else. What I do agree with is that it's damn convenient to say he could have done something he never did (Young, Moon, Marino type passing numbers), though I don't think he would have difficulty matching what Sanchez did last season.

His first couple of years, where he was pretty awful, he didn't have that awesome surrounding cast (and those that were there weren't yet in their prime). That OL was so great his rookie year he got knocked out cold. Irvin wasn't a season-long full-time starter until Aikman's 3rd year. Emmitt was a rookie in Aikman's 2nd season and wasn't anything like he would become over his next several seasons.

Later in Aikman's career, it's hard to say. The guy was concussed a ton of times and it surely contributed to his falloff (how much is anyone's guess). I think the best argument for him being carried by those around him was when Emmitt held out those first 2 games that year. The offense was doody with all those other tools in place just with Derrick Lassic replacing Emmitt (also a good case against the "anyone could have..." with regards to Smith). With Smith back full time, they were putting up scores in the 20s and 30s pretty regularly. It's just a small sample, those 2-3 games, but they looked like a totally different team on offense with and without Emmitt.

I don't agree that Sanchez could do something simply because Aikman and others were able to. Same reasoning as suggesting Aikman would have had Warren Moon's numbers if he was in Houston's run & shoot instead of his pretty cushy job in Dallas. A lot easier to say it than to do it. Because the reality is Sanchez had it pretty cushy in NY (NJ) his first couple of seasons. Jones/Greene weren't individually better than Emmitt Smith, but when Aikman really turned the corner in his 3rd season Dallas didn't have anything close to an elite running game or elite defense. 13th in rushing yards, 12th in rushing TD's, and 14th in rushing ypa, plus the defense was 17th (of 28) in yards and points. Pretty lowly compared to the Jets' top-5 (if not #1 outright) ranking in all those categories in Sanchez's first 2 seasons, which is all the more impressive given how bad Sanchez was himself.

[slats]

I don't agree that Sanchez could do something simply because Aikman and others were able to. Same reasoning as suggesting Aikman would have had Warren Moon's numbers if he was in Houston's run & shoot instead of his pretty cushy job in Dallas. A lot easier to say it than to do it.

All I'm saying is that getting Sanchez to perform at the level of a competent game manager can yield super bowl championship results. I used Aikman and Simms as examples. I find it funny that in NY, no one came to Phil's defense the way they did Aikman's. I guess that's the power of highlight reels over watching the guy every week. Dilfer is usually the example, but he's an extreme example. There's Jim McMahon, Bob Greise, Jeff Hostetler, any QB Joe Gibbs won with....

For Sanchez, it's a mental hump he needs to get over. If he just doesn't make the dumb throws, he's well more than halfway there. I think he's performed pretty well for a kid who only started 16 games in college. I think there's still room for improvement.

But it's not like I'm in love with the guy, or that I could guarantee that he can get there. He could regress this year under a new system. A part of me is concerned that they brought Tebow in to run some sort of caveman offense full time. Mark could be on a short leash, and all this could be moot.

Just saying that playing at the level of Troy Aikman is no great leap from where he's currently at. He doesn't have to be Manning or Brady, he just needs to up his comp % a little bit, and avoid the boneheaded throws into the DL. That's not really that much of a reach.

[Smashmouth]

In no way did Aikman carry that team, but I think you're a little slight on crediting his ability. In short, you're equating his not being asked to rack up tons of yards with him not having the ability to do so. When a passer is top-4 in pass yards for 4 of 5 straight seasons, including 3 in a row in the top 2-3, then the total passing yards is more indicative of the number of attempts rather than anything else. What I do agree with is that it's damn convenient to say he could have done something he never did (Young, Moon, Marino type passing numbers), though I don't think he would have difficulty matching what Sanchez did last season.

His first couple of years, where he was pretty awful, he didn't have that awesome surrounding cast (and those that were there weren't yet in their prime). That OL was so great his rookie year he got knocked out cold. Irvin wasn't a season-long full-time starter until Aikman's 3rd year. Emmitt was a rookie in Aikman's 2nd season and wasn't anything like he would become over his next several seasons.

Later in Aikman's career, it's hard to say. The guy was concussed a ton of times and it surely contributed to his falloff (how much is anyone's guess). I think the best argument for him being carried by those around him was when Emmitt held out those first 2 games that year. The offense was doody with all those other tools in place just with Derrick Lassic replacing Emmitt (also a good case against the "anyone could have..." with regards to Smith). With Smith back full time, they were putting up scores in the 20s and 30s pretty regularly. It's just a small sample, those 2-3 games, but they looked like a totally different team on offense with and without Emmitt.

I don't agree that Sanchez could do something simply because Aikman and others were able to. Same reasoning as suggesting Aikman would have had Warren Moon's numbers if he was in Houston's run & shoot instead of his pretty cushy job in Dallas. A lot easier to say it than to do it. Because the reality is Sanchez had it pretty cushy in NY (NJ) his first couple of seasons. Jones/Greene weren't individually better than Emmitt Smith, but when Aikman really turned the corner in his 3rd season Dallas didn't have anything close to an elite running game or elite defense. 13th in rushing yards, 12th in rushing TD's, and 14th in rushing ypa, plus the defense was 17th (of 28) in yards and points. Pretty lowly compared to the Jets' top-5 (if not #1 outright) ranking in all those categories in Sanchez's first 2 seasons, which is all the more impressive given how bad Sanchez was himself.

This is poop sperm Yes Im being sarcastic

When I make the case of getting Sanchez some weapons I get ripped for it yet your making the case that Aikman really didnt get better until the talent around him did. Why does the arguement work in some cases and not others keeping in mind Sanchez may never ever even come close to the supporting cast Aikman had around him.

[jbone]

The Johnston thing is a joke, too. Did you know that prior to Johnston, the pro bowl didn't have a spot for a FB? They created it for him! Haha!

Didn't Don Perkins and Dick Bielski both made the Pro Bowl playing for the Cowboys at the FB position predominantly, long before Johnston. He could have made it earlier, he just didn't.

.Just saying that playing at the level of Troy Aikman is no great leap from where he's currently at.

Depending on which metrics you use, you can construct both arguments soundly. One could use stats where it shows he isn't too far off, but at the same time one could use something different that shows he is pretty far off. You chose to focus on only 2 aspects of the QB position. Not sure if you are aware how badly that limits your understanding of a complete player. You make several, highly suspect assumptions to support your reasoning. Such as: Any average QB would have played better on the Cowboys than Aikman .

[slats]

You chose to focus on only 2 aspects of the QB position. Not sure if you are aware how badly that limits your understanding of a complete player. You make several, highly suspect assumptions to support your reasoning. Such as: Any average QB would have played better on the Cowboys than Aikman .

The two aspects I chose to focus on are the most important ones. It's the QB's job to move the football and score points. Last year, Mark did that better than Aikman did in any season in his career.

I don't know why you are so offended by my referring to Aikman as a game manager. He was a very good game manager, but that's all he was really asked to do. You have an impression of him as an all time great, and certainly his championships tilt things in that direction, but the fact that he only threw for more than 20 TDs once in his entire career, or only broke 3400 passing yards once, suggest something else. He was the point guard for Emmitt and Irvin behind one of the greatest OLs in NFL history. There's no shame in that.

If the Jets can continue to play solid defense and get their running game back on track, that level of QB play can elevate the team. It's not a particularly high level, either. Modest improvement in comp %, and a reduction in idiot throws. That would result in fewer ints and a higher ypa. He already has a higher TD% rate than Aikman, but that should go up, too, with just a few smarter decisions on the field. Just a few. There's really not a lot he has to do to put up numbers much better than Aikman.

Mark's real issue is mental. That's the wildcard for him. He has the physical ability, and has shown that he can pay at a high level in stretches. He just needs to put that together consistently.

[jbone]

You need much more than a solid D, you need one of the top Ds in the league. If you are below average at the QB position, the only way you makeup for it is being way above average in other areas.

.

The two aspects I chose to focus on are the most important ones. It's the QB's job to move the football and score points. Last year, Mark did that better than Aikman did in any season in his career.

Lol. Aikman lead some of the most prolific offenses of his ERA and scored TONS of points? Do you forget this?

[slats]

Lol. Aikman lead some of the most prolific offenses of his ERA and scored TONS of points? Do you forget this?

Nope. I've said all along that Aikman played for a great team. Very fortunate situation for him.

[jbone]

Lol. Keep fighting the good fight.

This won't do much for you (slat) as reason doesn't seem to be one of your strong suits, but I found some nice advanced pass statistics that say it much better than I can for anyone who cares. Just scroll down a bit for the advanced stats. 100 is average while anything above it is better than average and vice-versa when it is below 100.

Aikman's - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm

Sanchez's - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm

You can see multiple years (91-96, 98-99) where Aikman is significantly above average in virtually every category, while Sanchez is below average in all but 3 categories.

Sanchez is pretty far off from Aikman like production.

But only YDs and TDs matter. HaHaHaHa