Let's Talk O-Line

[slats]

The offense is a work in progress. We were spoiled with the week one performance, weeks two and three are more what I expected. Everyone's in a new offense, and we're seeing the miscommunications. Sparano is still evaluating talent, now that he's seeing them in real game action.

Hopefully we start seeing more Kerley, either starting on the outside or as part of more 3-WR sets. More Powell, which I really think is a given. Sparano had Greene and Powell on the field together - more of that, please.

Hill is an inexperienced rookie who also spoiled us in week one. Banged up, too. I'd expect him to be stronger down the stretch. If the team really is leaning much more pass happy than advertised, the return of the real refs will help, too. Jets receivers, along with everyone else's, have been getting mugged the last couple weeks. Keller's absence has really hurt, too.

[Pac]

Obsolete?

ALL the WRs are fast. Except Turner. There are only two or three on the field at a time. The TEs? All fast. Keller has been out and Reuland isn't particularly fast, but Cumberland? He can't get on the field? He has played almost constantly. He's only out when Kerley or Tebow are in. I will give you McKnight hasn't been able to get on the field. That's it. Hill can't catch? How does that relate to "speed is the problem"? Schillens has been hurt. He's been hurt his whole career, but he's been on the field and will probably take HIll's reps this week.

He means it's more of a soft speed.

[Integrity28]

Our offense has no speed "ON IT".

Your words dumbass. You compared them to the LB'ers. Now since you realize your an idiot, you're making about tempo and how well they do their job and communicate and do their job.. lmfao.

You made a comment about the talent saying they had no speed. Stop trying to back track you idiot.

I suppose in the wording I should have said "no speed to it" rather than "no speed on it". Either way, I'm not back-tracking, just explaining what I meant... while relishing what a gash you come across as when you think you have a point to make.

At least I'm clarifying my point, and staying on-topic... you are talking about out-dated 40 times and special teams TDs to make your flimsy point. A smarter person would have simply said, "Ape, there's plenty of speed on this team's offense, they just don't take advantage of it."

[JiFtheOracle]

I suppose in the wording I should have said "no speed to it" rather than "no speed on it". Either way, I'm not back-tracking, just explaining what I meant... while relishing what a gash you come across as when you think you have a point to make.

At least I'm clarifying my point, and staying on-topic... you are talking about out-dated 40 times and special teams TDs to make your flimsy point. A smarter person would have simply said, "Ape, there's plenty of speed on this team's offense, they just don't take advantage of it."

Yes...thats very different. Totally different in fact. We'll just chalk it up to you saying something stupid whether it was on accident or not and just move along.

FTR, 40 times are a barometer for speed. I see no reason why referencing that isnt adequate based on your false statement. But whatever, you said something stupid, we'll just move on.

[Pac]

The offense is a work in progress. We were spoiled with the week one performance, weeks two and three are more what I expected. Everyone's in a new offense, and we're seeing the miscommunications. Sparano is still evaluating talent, now that he's seeing them in real game action.

Hopefully we start seeing more Kerley, either starting on the outside or as part of more 3-WR sets. More Powell, which I really think is a given. Sparano had Greene and Powell on the field together - more of that, please.

Hill is an inexperienced rookie who also spoiled us in week one. Banged up, too. I'd expect him to be stronger down the stretch. If the team really is leaning much more pass happy than advertised, the return of the real refs will help, too. Jets receivers, along with everyone else's, have been getting mugged the last couple weeks. Keller's absence has really hurt, too.

This.

I've read a lot of whining about Rex being loyal to Greene but I don't think that will be the case. This is Sparanos offense and he'll be making the decisions on who plays. Since he has no history with Shonn, I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of Powell in the coming weeks. I even picked up Bilal on my fantasy team just in case.

[Bleedin Green]

So how about that O-Line, huh?

[Integrity28]

LMFAO!!!! Not uh, you dont know how to read and stuff and are missing the point. Its not about how the offense has "no speed on it", just like the LB"ers...its about tempo, communication and doing their jobs. That type of speed.

Regarding the comparison to the LBers... I stand by that as well. We have starters, all of them slow... the speed in the LB corps is on the sideline mostly, used situationally. Just like what I was alluding to with the offense. The nucleus is slow, can't function and the quick players are used situationally.

I assumed people would be able to extrapolate more meaning from my initial statement than they did. Not the first time that has happened here... Or maybe it's just you, you seem to be the one that always requires having it explained in nauseating redundancy and detail.

[Pac]

I suppose in the wording I should have said "no speed to it" rather than "no speed on it". Either way, I'm not back-tracking, just explaining what I meant... while relishing what a gash you come across as when you think you have a point to make.

At least I'm clarifying my point, and staying on-topic... you are talking about out-dated 40 times and special teams TDs to make your flimsy point. A smarter person would have simply said, "Ape, there's plenty of speed on this team's offense, they just don't take advantage of it."

[StraightCash]

Soft AND slow? How is the record not 0-3?

[Integrity28]

Yes...thats very different. Totally different in fact. We'll just chalk it up to you saying something stupid whether it was on accident or not and just move along.

FTR, 40 times are a barometer for speed. I see no reason why referencing that isnt adequate based on your false statement. But whatever, you said something stupid, we'll just move on.

Like I said, you can have a roster full of track stars - like the Oakland Raiders when Al Davis was making all the picks - but unless they can play football too, you don't have speed.

All the quick guys you brought up, role players and depth. Cheers.

[Integrity28]

Soft AND slow? Sounds like a romantic evening with Clay Matthews.

O RLY?

[sirlancemehlot]

O-line has been better in pass protection. But not in run blocking. You can blame the backs all you want, but the line makes the back, not the other way around, except in rare cases (somebody's bound to mention Barry Sanders). We don't have a true road grader and don't have any quick downfield blocking guys like Faneca used to be. Denver comes to mind as an example. For nearly a decade they churned out rushing champions then traded them away to teams who got little out of them. Those lines were awesome. Ours is OK, but not exceptional by any means. Two quick, mobile guards would make a huge difference.

[Bleedin Green]

O-line has been better in pass protection. But not in run blocking. You can blame the backs all you want, but the line makes the back, not the other way around, except in rare cases (somebody's bound to mention Barry Sanders). We don't have a true road grader and don't have any quick downfield blocking guys like Faneca used to be. Denver comes to mind as an example. For nearly a decade they churned out rushing champions then traded them away to teams who got little out of them. Those lines were awesome. Ours is OK, but not exceptional by any means. Two quick, mobile guards would make a huge difference.

Could the Jets open bigger holes for their RBs? Sure, but they're doing more than an adequate enough job for their starting RB to be getting more than 2 YPC. There's a reason everyone else who was run the ball for the Jets this season has a far better average than Greene.

[Barton]

austin howard has exceeded expectations. that one switch was huge for the line. getting wayne hunter out of town really was a case of addition by subtraction.

Coming from the guy who said the Oline was fine with Hunter.

[#27TheDominator]

How many yards do we get when Hill blasts down the field and comes up with an incompletion or drop? Until they start giving points and first downs for 40 times, it is obsolete how fast a dude runs, when they can't leverage that speed to contribute to the overall tempo of the offense.

I know we have guys that can run. We don't have an offense that can take advantage of it, making our whole offense a collection of hiccups, stalls and miscues. I guess, in going back and forth with some of you here, I'm saying fast players are useless without the ability to communicate and execute, if you don't have the latter, then you don't really have speed.

Like I said, you can have a roster full of track stars - like the Oakland Raiders when Al Davis was making all the picks - but unless they can play football too, you don't have speed.

All the quick guys you brought up, role players and depth. Cheers.

Make up your mind. You are making JiF seem like the smart one.

Both starting WRs are role players and depth? So are the next three WRs? Both TEs? The 2nd and 3rd RBs? Greene is probably the only skill position starter that does not have above average speed.

They have fast players. Those players are on the field. If Hill isn't "taking advantage of his speed" because he can't catch the problem is that he can't catch, not that he isn't fast. They have nothing but speed at WR. They have nothing but speed at TE. They have a slow starting RB and some fairly fast backups. Why is speed the problem? Because they can't leverage that speed? Fine, but that doesn't have to do with not having speed, it has to do with other problems. SO WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING SPEED IS THE PROBLEM?

[Pac]

I haven't seen a monkey get spanked this hard since I was 14 years old and procured my first porno.

[Integrity28]

Make up your mind. You are making JiF seem like the smart one.

They have fast players. Those players are on the field. If Hill isn't "taking advantage of his speed" because he can't catch the problem is that he can't catch, not that he isn't fast. They have nothing but speed at WR. They have nothing but speed at TE. They have a slow starting RB and some fairly fast backups. Why is speed the problem? Because they can't leverage that speed? Fine, but that doesn't have to do with not having speed, it has to do with other problems. SO WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING SPEED IS THE PROBLEM?

I've already clarified that I could have re-worded what JIF over-reacted to in my initial statement, and clarified what I do think the issues are.

In summary: Our offense sucks.

[Integrity28]

I haven't seen a monkey get spanked this hard since I was 14 years old and procured my first porno.

Yeah, I'm getting hammered on my word choice mostly, lol.

I'd be lying if I said I was giving this my full attention, so I'm not surprised I'm writing stuff that doesn't entire reflect what's in my head. Oh well, heh.

[Il Mostro]

Really? Hill,Schilens, Holmes all ran sub 4.4's. Kerley, Powell, Keller, McKnight and Cumberland all run in the 4.45-4.55 range.

Greene is slow as sh*t but otherwise, unless you're including the OL, the Jets have plenty of speed on offense.

Then everyone but Greene should move on to Track & Field. They play slow. There is speed, and then there is football speed. I don't know if is Sparano's offense or the players themselves but our offense plays as slow as the defense.

[Integrity28]

Then everyone but Greene should move on to Track & Field. They play slow. There is speed, and then there is football speed. I don't know if is Sparano's offense or the players themselves but our offense plays as slow as the defense.

This is in the vein of what I was getting at. Playing slow happens for any myriad of reasons, dropped balls, bad routes, don't know the playbook, hesitation, etc.

When you tell an athlete to run in a straight line fast, they don't have to think about anything but that.

When you tell an athlete, these are your assignments, if this, then than, if this, then the other thing... it slows them down sometimes... like Gholston. He got awful slow once he got to the NFL level and was expected to use his brain.

[#27TheDominator]

Then everyone but Greene should move on to Track & Field. They play slow. There is speed, and then there is football speed. I don't know if is Sparano's offense or the players themselves but our offense plays as slow as the defense.

The only one of those guys that "plays slow" is HIll. He's a rookie project, so that's to be expected. Did you watch Kerley and Holmes last week? They seemed plenty fast. The jury is still out on Schillens, but getting overthrown once doesn't mean he's playing slow. In fact the short pass he caught was well behind him and waiting for it is why he was tackled - Gannon even commented on it.

[whodeawhodat]

I haven't seen a monkey get spanked this hard since I was 14 years old and procured my first porno.

JiF had him when he went all Yoda on his a$$ back on page 1 of this thread(See below). the rest was just feeding him more rope.

Kerley and Powell cant get on the field. Weird. Kerley's got 2 TD's on the year. Wonder how that happens sitting on the sidelines. Powell's about to unseat Greene, pretty impressive feat sitting on the sidelines. Cumberland was wide open in the endzone last game, must be magic. McKnight was the best Kick Return in the game last season, weird how that happens when you dont see the field.

My bad, game speed. Holmes, Hill, Schilens, Kerley, Powell - no game speed. You're right. So smart you are.

[whodeawhodat]

as for the Oline, it will take some time to get them to gel with the new system and all. I expect the run game to be better as the year goes if our health holds up.

Team speed isnt the issue. Are we the fastest team in the league? no, maybe still the raiders, but we arent slow.

Team softness isnt the issue either. Are we the most physical team in the league? no, maybe the ravens/steelers, but we still carry a big stick.

[bitonti]

Coming from the guy who said the Oline was fine with Hunter.

im so glad you are around to keep track of my statements. that way I can just kick back and relax. You're like my intern.

[SenorGato]

Its amazing that all these contributors dont see field but have like catches, carries and TD's. Its shame we are leaving their speed on the sidelines.

LMFAO - you're clueless.

I lawl'd.

That said, these guys have made huge contributions to this 2-1 abortion of a roster. Everyone is stupid and sucks. If they followed MY plan....shiiieeeet.

[Ignatius del Sol]

Everyone is stupid and sucks. If they followed MY plan....shiiieeeet.

Can Vince Oghobaase throw a slant without pump faking?

[HessStation]

If Kerley was a regular starter, then JIF would have a point. Kerley is basically the exception within this offense regarding quickness. He's just not on the field for nearly enough snaps to skew my opinion of the offense's overall speed.

Hill, Schillens and Kerley. Hill can't catch the ball, which renders any speed he brings obsolete... Kerley and Schillens are barely on the field. If they aren't on the field regularly, or not actually making plays, then it's obsolete to me... and I don't look at it as part of the overall offensive output. When I see this offense I see no tempo, nothing dynamic, nothing comes easy... so while JIF makes the point that we have fast guys on the team, we don't leverage them in giving our offensive output speed.

And counting what Kerley and McKnight do on special teams is side-stepping my point. I'm talking about the offense, not special teams.

when things go too easy Sanchez decides to take it upon himself to throw a duck. Like clockwork.

[Barton]

Of course the Jets have a great Oline, they had 3 pro bowlers last year.

[Il Mostro]

The only one of those guys that "plays slow" is HIll. He's a rookie project, so that's to be expected. Did you watch Kerley and Holmes last week? They seemed plenty fast. The jury is still out on Schillens, but getting overthrown once doesn't mean he's playing slow. In fact the short pass he caught was well behind him and waiting for it is why he was tackled - Gannon even commented on it.

Even you could be classified as fast based on this. Sanchez threw the effin' ball behind him. What else is new.

[RutgersJetFan]

Can Vince Oghobaase throw a slant without pump faking?

LOL

[SenorGato]

What, he can't?

[#27TheDominator]

Even you could be classified as fast based on this. Sanchez threw the effin' ball behind him. What else is new.

First of all, never forget that I have been underthrown millions of times! I'm a rocket!

My point was that the guy had steps on the defender and therefore was not "too slow". His functional speed was wasted because the ball was thrown behind him. I think a good part of this stupid thread (the part about offensive speed, not the O line) comes from the two overthrows which would have been TDs is they were 4.2 guys instead of 4.3 guys. The ball being thrown behind Schillens is the counterpart to that.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Well, our oline could be worse. We could have Wayne Hunter's backup be our upcoming LT.....

Rams LT Wayne Hunter (knee) is listed as questionable for Sunday's contest against the Seahawks.

If Hunter cannot play, the Rams could move LG Quinn Ojinnaka to left tackle and use Shelley Smith at left guard. That's digging deep for St. Louis, and it could mean a field day for a Seahawks defensive front coming off an eight-sack performance on Monday night. Chris Clemons is Rotoworld's No. 6 DL this week. Owners in deeper leagues may also want to consider rookie DE Bruce Irvin as a sneaky DL3 in this matchup.

per rotoworld.com

[sirlancemehlot]

Also. Mike Tannenbaum is a crappy GM. Something about jerry Reese being super and playing football instead of counting beans.

Reese also puts together top Dlineman top wrs and owns some nice jewelry. Tanny has Austin Howard and a castoff punter to his credit. Bot only after having Wayne hunter and TJ Conley to his credit. So yeah let's compare the two to prove a point that tanny gets a bad rap. Lol.

[Maxman]

Jif has won tge first 4 rounds of this one. Optimus will need a knockout here. If it goes to the judges jif wont lose.

Generally speaking we never want jif to win anything.