Cimini, Sunday Notes: Jets Warming to Geno Smith

[faba]

teams will always take fliers on QB's in the draft no matter what ratings by so called experts are because they know if you hit it right you are set at the most important position

[Stonehands]

What I find crazy is that the same people that don't want to draft Geno will want to draft an offensive guard at number 9 and then a third round QB who can't hold Geno's jock.  The league is built on QB's!!!  You take the best available QB when you don't have one and a third round guard every time.  The rookie salary structure is such that a swing and a miss on a first round QB does not hurt you like it once did.  You take Geno and then pick again if he does not fulfill his potential.

[whodeawhodat]

we need building blocks in this draft.  O-line, WR, TE.  We have plenty of competition at QB, we need the supporting cast to improve in the draft.

[slats]

What I find crazy is that the same people that don't want to draft Geno will want to draft an offensive guard at number 9 and then a third round QB who can't hold Geno's jock.  The league is built on QB's!!!  You take the best available QB when you don't have one and a third round guard every time.  The rookie salary structure is such that a swing and a miss on a first round QB does not hurt you like it once did.  You take Geno and then pick again if he does not fulfill his potential.

I don't think Geno will be there at #9, and I don't want to trade up, and I don't want a guard.

[Matt39]

Funny you should mention. I was just reading a few different articles on Matt Barkley's Pro Day on Wednesday. The consensus seems to be that if he shows he can throw it on a straight line, he'll move back into the top ten. I think there'll be a lot of curious QB picks in the next two drafts, what with so many teams missing out on Russell Wilson due to his jack of "elite" traits. Nobody wants to be the next guy to file a bad scouting report on the next QB who turns out to be a stud, and no GM wants to be the guy to explain to his owner why he can't find a QB when other teams keep finding them every year.

 

The arm is what holds these types of guys back. Christian Ponder stinks because he cant make those big 3rd down throws down the field. Dalton, not as much...but his arm is average.

 

Flacco has never put up big numbers, but you know he can make all the throws and if the stars align you can ride that against good defenses in the playoffs.

[bitonti]

   The rookie salary structure is such that a swing and a miss on a first round QB does not hurt you like it once did.  You take Geno and then pick again if he does not fulfill his potential.

 

 

this isn't really true. If you take Geno how long does it take until you give up on him? It's gonna be like 3 years at the least. It could be 5 years A bad Geno pick gets Idzik fired, just like a bad Sanchez pick gets Tanny fired.  No team is gonna take Geno top 10 this year and then take Bridgewater next year at 1. Not unless the GM gets fired. even with the new CBA there can be only QB at a time. 

 

as a side note it's one thing to be a fan rooting for Geno cause you want to win. It's another to be a GM taking Geno and putting your ability to pay the mortgage on that pick. Sorry kids, you aren't going to college because Daddy picked a West Virginia QB too high. 

[bitonti]

because Sanchez was the only mistake Tannenbaum ever made.  Tannenbaum did not know how to build a football team.  He only knew how to make a splash.  Favre should have gotten him fired, Tebow should have gotten him shot.  Pace's contract, Harris' contract, Holmes' contract, trading away pick after pick, I could go on for another dozen examples.  Sanchez was the final straw.  Maybe.  Tanny dug his own grave.  And Rex handed him the shovel.

 

 

if Sanchez was a good player, Tanny would still be here. It's really easy to forgive Pace's contract or Holmes contract with a franchise QB making it all better. it's why the Pats can miss on draft pick after draft pick. 

[SMC]

And Russell Wilson just turned Pete Carroll into one of the best coaches in the league overnight.

[T0mShane]

this isn't really true. If you take Geno how long does it take until you give up on him? It's gonna be like 3 years at the least. It could be 5 years A bad Geno pick gets Idzik fired, just like a bad Sanchez pick gets Tanny fired. No team is gonna take Geno top 10 this year and then take Bridgewater next year at 1. Not unless the GM gets fired. even with the new CBA there can be only QB at a time.

as a side note it's one thing to be a fan rooting for Geno cause you want to win. It's another to be a GM taking Geno and putting your ability to pay the mortgage on that pick. Sorry kids, you aren't going to college because Daddy picked a West Virginia QB too high.

You could have said the same thing about Andrew Luck, RGIII, or any QB prospect ever.

[dbatesman]

as a side note it's one thing to be a fan rooting for Geno cause you want to win. It's another to be a GM taking Geno and putting your ability to pay the mortgage on that pick. Sorry kids, you aren't going to college because Daddy picked a West Virginia QB too high. 

 

I literally have no idea what this is supposed to mean, literally or figuratively or in any other way.

[pedro55]

this isn't really true. If you take Geno how long does it take until you give up on him? It's gonna be like 3 years at the least. It could be 5 years A bad Geno pick gets Idzik fired, just like a bad Sanchez pick gets Tanny fired.  No team is gonna take Geno top 10 this year and then take Bridgewater next year at 1. Not unless the GM gets fired. even with the new CBA there can be only QB at a time. 

 

as a side note it's one thing to be a fan rooting for Geno cause you want to win. It's another to be a GM taking Geno and putting your ability to pay the mortgage on that pick. Sorry kids, you aren't going to college because Daddy picked a West Virginia QB too high. 

 

 This is the biggest issue with the NFL and media and fans.  You swing and miss on a top 10 QB and people want you fired.  You pick a guy like Gholston or Dbrick and nobody cares as much.  They blame the player.     All the hype goes to QBs, with good reason, but a team who picks a Gholston doesn't get any better either.

[T0mShane]

This is the biggest issue with the NFL and media and fans. You swing and miss on a top 10 QB and people want you fired. You pick a guy like Gholston or Dbrick and nobody cares as much. They blame the player. All the hype goes to QBs, with good reason, but a team who picks a Gholston doesn't get any better either.

I have to give bitonti credit: cutting Gholston really didn't make the Jets any better.

[pedro55]

I have to give bitonti credit: cutting Gholston really didn't make the Jets any better.

 

  It's because he was the invisible player.   He didn't matter.    He never played.  If he was some pro bowl player, everybody would love it.  The fact he never made it just means he never made it.  A bust, but most people don't care about guys like Gholston being busts.   Gholston was a far worse pick than Sanchez, but nobody cares.      This is the problem with comparing most other positions to a QB.   

[Stonehands]

this isn't really true. If you take Geno how long does it take until you give up on him? It's gonna be like 3 years at the least. It could be 5 years A bad Geno pick gets Idzik fired, just like a bad Sanchez pick gets Tanny fired.  No team is gonna take Geno top 10 this year and then take Bridgewater next year at 1. Not unless the GM gets fired. even with the new CBA there can be only QB at a time. 

 

as a side note it's one thing to be a fan rooting for Geno cause you want to win. It's another to be a GM taking Geno and putting your ability to pay the mortgage on that pick. Sorry kids, you aren't going to college because Daddy picked a West Virginia QB too high. 

 

So I guess Jacksonville won't be able to take him with Gabbert still drawing a paycheck, then?

[bitonti]

So I guess Jacksonville won't be able to take him with Gabbert still drawing a paycheck, then?

the guys who took Gabbert were fired. So they could. still think 2 is too high and it's smokescreen

[BroadwayJoe12]

the guys who took Gabbert were fired. So they could. still think 2 is too high and it's smokescreen

 

And the guy who took Sanchez was fired as well...  Yet it's still your contention that Idzik won't entertain the idea of drafting Geno, regardless of what his scouts say, because of the failings of his predecessor??  And just because other teams may pass and Geno is there for us, doesn't mean he's not worth the selection.  If that were the case, Marino and Rodgers would have kept on falling, because the teams outside the first five would have seen other teams passing on them and realized they weren't any good.  Our GM has to trust his own scouting department and staff, regardless of what the teams in front of him do.  I don't think Oakland, Jacksonville, Cleveland or Buffalo's draft record should persuade us in any way.

[SouthernJet]

And the guy who took Sanchez was fired as well...  Yet it's still your contention that Idzik won't entertain the idea of drafting Geno, regardless of what his scouts say, because of the failings of his predecessor??  And just because other teams may pass and Geno is there for us, doesn't mean he's not worth the selection.  If that were the case, Marino and Rodgers would have kept on falling, because the teams outside the first five would have seen other teams passing on them and realized they weren't any good.  Our GM has to trust his own scouting department and staff, regardless of what the teams in front of him do.  I don't think Oakland, Jacksonville, Cleveland or Buffalo's draft record should persuade us in any way.

I think Idzik may 'like' Geno, but is looking long term, not short term, aka 2013.

I think Idzik 'may' see the 2014 draft as having a few QBs better than Geno and therefore a better long term (2014 and beyond) Jets solution.

 

But I could be wrong

[#27TheDominator]

Smith would be an epic disaster in NY, worse than Sanchez disaster if that's possible, the last thing the Jets can do right now is waste another high draft pick on anything other than a sure bet QB!

It would mean 10-12 years of sure suck for this franchise.

 

How many sure bet QBs are there?  One a decade?  One every five years.  Even then they don't always pan out - see Jeff George.  

 

  It's because he was the invisible player.   He didn't matter.    He never played.  If he was some pro bowl player, everybody would love it.  The fact he never made it just means he never made it.  A bust, but most people don't care about guys like Gholston being busts.   Gholston was a far worse pick than Sanchez, but nobody cares.      This is the problem with comparing most other positions to a QB.   

 

Actually, it's the opposite.  A QB is either playing or he sucks.  Even a stiff like Gholston played, and played plenty on a great defense.  A QB is unable to contribute if they do not start.  Personal Punt Protectors excepted. 

[bitonti]

And the guy who took Sanchez was fired as well...  Yet it's still your contention that Idzik won't entertain the idea of drafting Geno, regardless of what his scouts say, because of the failings of his predecessor??   

 

 

NO Idzik will pass on Geno because he's not a great prospect. And he's not desperate. Buddy Nix who runs Buffalo is basically on the hot seat. a guy like that who will be fired in a year has nothing to lose by taking Geno. Idzik isn't gonna pick a QB until it's a no brainer pick or he becomes desperate. 

[Cyberjet]

NO Idzik will pass on Geno because he's not a great prospect. And he's not desperate. Buddy Nix who runs Buffalo is basically on the hot seat. a guy like that who will be fired in a year has nothing to lose by taking Geno. Idzik isn't gonna pick a QB until it's a no brainer pick or he becomes desperate. 

ding ding ding we have a winner. Idzik is going for a sure thing in the 1st round - OL or DL maybe safety. No way he picks Geno Smith

[j4jets]

I like #7.

[Cyberjet]

Prediction - Jets will go QB in 6th round: Sean Renfree from Duke

[SouthernJet]

Prediction - Jets will go QB in 6th round: Sean Renfree from Duke

I know for a fact they are looking at Sean. He may not last till 6th though. He has risen on some other teams boards..may take a 5th to get him

[Cyberjet]

I know for a fact they are looking at Sean. He may not last till 6th though. He has risen on some other teams boards..may take a 5th to get him

If he gets over his injury this guy is a wild card. How do you know they are looking at him?

[j4jets]

If he gets over his injury this guy is a wild card. How do you know they are looking at him?

 

Its a well known fact to him.

[BroadwayJoe12]

NO Idzik will pass on Geno because he's not a great prospect. And he's not desperate. Buddy Nix who runs Buffalo is basically on the hot seat. a guy like that who will be fired in a year has nothing to lose by taking Geno. Idzik isn't gonna pick a QB until it's a no brainer pick or he becomes desperate. 

 

These "no-brainer" QB selections don't just fall into everyone's lap, eventually you have to do your due-diligence and select someone who isn't the #1 overall pick.  

 

 

I just don't understand your line of thinking. You want Idzik to go into the season with guys like Sanchez or other castoffs, simply because we don't have a sure-fire prospect at our disposal??  Or you'd rather give guys like Kellen Clemen and other second rounders a chance, because if they flop, at least it wasn't a top ten pick.  That line of thinking will give you a half decade of mediocre football, which will get a GM fired.  Your only scenario seems to be selecting either one or two overall in a QB heavy draft.  That's just not realistic.

[SouthernJet]

If he gets over his injury this guy is a wild card. How do you know they are looking at him?

Folks I know at UNC who say Jets have been all over Gio Bernard say they mentioned Sean Renfree was intriguing them

[rillo]

I'm expecting some foolishness come draft day. Just wait and see.

[bitonti]

These "no-brainer" QB selections don't just fall into everyone's lap, eventually you have to do your due-diligence and select someone who isn't the #1 overall pick.  

 

 

I just don't understand your line of thinking. You want Idzik to go into the season with guys like Sanchez or other castoffs, simply because we don't have a sure-fire prospect at our disposal??  Or you'd rather give guys like Kellen Clemen and other second rounders a chance, because if they flop, at least it wasn't a top ten pick.  That line of thinking will give you a half decade of mediocre football, which will get a GM fired.  Your only scenario seems to be selecting either one or two overall in a QB heavy draft.  That's just not realistic.

 

First off it's not about what your or I would do. Our paychecks aren't relying on these draft picks being good. 

 

And Im not saying sanchez is the answer or they have to wait for Andrew Luck 2.0. 

 

What I am saying is that Idzik seems to be too risk averse to just roll the dice on this particular prospect, at this point in Idzik's career. He just got here. He's not picking Geno for the same reason Andy Reid isn't picking Geno. He's barely unpacked his boxes, he's not gonna make a 50/50 draft pick that could get him fired quickly. 

 

meanwhile I can turn the question back on you. You want Geno Smith to be the jets Qb because Sanchez sucks? 

The fact that the Jets don't have a QB has no relevance to whether or not Geno Smith is a good pick. It's a common trap to look at the Jets QB and look at Geno Smith and say "Anything would be better"

 

this is the same thinking that got Tanny to trade up for a late 1st round graded QB named Mark Sanchez. The Bengals needed a QB when they picked Akili Smith. Anything would be better than Kellen Clemens, right? 

 

And yes the CBA is different but these are not throw away picks. It's still millions of dollars and career reputations are on the line. 

 

By the way I don't hate Geno I just think his value is not in the top 10. He might get drafted in the top 10 but the 5 game losing streak and the Syracuse bowl game dictates that he probably shouldn't. If he played his whole season like he did vs Baylor, we aren't having this conversation because He's going 1 to Andy Reid. 

 

It's one of those chicken/egg situations if he's not good enough for Andy why is he good enough for the Jets?  the Bills, Cards, Browns, Eagles, Raiders, Jags and Chiefs all need QB's and pick before the Jets. 

 

Let me ask you, if all those teams pass, why should the jets take the leap of faith? 

[faba]

I expect the Bills to take Smith so no decision for us IMO

[jack48]

  It's because he was the invisible player.   He didn't matter.    He never played.  If he was some pro bowl player, everybody would love it.  The fact he never made it just means he never made it.  A bust, but most people don't care about guys like Gholston being busts.   Gholston was a far worse pick than Sanchez, but nobody cares.      This is the problem with comparing most other positions to a QB.   

 

I don't think you have to wait as long as before.  And it should not matter what position they play.  Especially with the way some of these QBs have stepped right in. Yes, it is a Number One, but the money is not the same, the bite is not the same.  Point is, good teams should know fairly soon whether they have a silk purse or a sow's ear (Sanchez).  The important thing is that they act on it, and don't torture their fans or their salary caps.  Keeping Gholston (for reasons of pride) and Sanchez (because we like bacon) is no longer a necessity with the new cap restrictions.  Guys aren't getting what they used to.

[LionelRichie]

And the guy who took Sanchez was fired as well...  Yet it's still your contention that Idzik won't entertain the idea of drafting Geno, regardless of what his scouts say, because of the failings of his predecessor??  And just because other teams may pass and Geno is there for us, doesn't mean he's not worth the selection.

 

I think Idzik doesn't take a QB in rd 1 because he doesn't know who the coach will be in 2014 yet.

 

Look at what's happening in Cleveland over the past few years - every time they bring in a new HC they need to turnover the QB position and waste another high pick.  

[BroadwayJoe12]

 

 

It's one of those chicken/egg situations if he's not good enough for Andy why is he good enough for the Jets?  the Bills, Cards, Browns, Eagles, Raiders, Jags and Chiefs all need QB's and pick before the Jets. 

 

Let me ask you, if all those teams pass, why should the jets take the leap of faith? 

 

We select Geno, because our scouting department sees something in him that another may not.  What made the dolphins and packers draft marino and rodgers, respectively, when a dozen or so other teams already passed up on them?  

 

If I'm the GM, I don't care what another team does ahead of me, mainly because there's a reason they're drafting ahead of me.  If the bills, cards, browns, raiders, jags and chiefs all passed on Geno and my scouting department says he could be the real deal, then I don't pass up the opportunity because the teams ahead of me missed out.  It's not like those teams have the most pristine draft history as of late. 

 

And i'm not saying Geno will be the next coming, I just don't buy into the belief that Idzik will turn down the advice of his scouting department because he's risk adverse. I think it's riskier to pass up a QB your scouting department likes and have him go play well somewhere else and you walk into the season with Sanchez as your starting QB.    

 

This also has nothing to do with him "just being better than sanchez."  The entire point is that just because our last GM failed with his pick, our current GM shouldn't be afraid to take someone in the top ten that he feels is worth it.  

[BroadwayJoe12]

I think Idzik doesn't take a QB in rd 1 because he doesn't know who the coach will be in 2014 yet.

 

Look at what's happening in Cleveland over the past few years - every time they bring in a new HC they need to turnover the QB position and waste another high pick.  

 

That's not just due to HC turnover, it's due to consistently drafting sh*tty quarterbacks that had no business being taken in the first round like Brady Quinn or Brandon Weeden (both 22 pick coincidentally) and then trying to make due with mid to late round guys like Charlie Frye, Colt McCoy or bringing in castoffs like jeff garcia.  The only time they had the number one pick they chose Tim Crouch and surrounded him with a sh*tty-ass expansion team roster that got him decimated on a weekly basis. 

 

I have idea what Idzik will do this draft, but I'm pretty certain what teams ahead of him do or what our last GM did, will have zero bearing on his selection.

[pedro55]

We select Geno, because our scouting department sees something in him that another may not.  What made the dolphins and packers draft marino and rodgers, respectively, when a dozen or so other teams already passed up on them?  

 

If I'm the GM, I don't care what another team does ahead of me, mainly because there's a reason they're drafting ahead of me.  If the bills, cards, browns, raiders, jags and chiefs all passed on Geno and my scouting department says he could be the real deal, then I don't pass up the opportunity because the teams ahead of me missed out.  It's not like those teams have the most pristine draft history as of late. 

 

And i'm not saying Geno will be the next coming, I just don't buy into the belief that Idzik will turn down the advice of his scouting department because he's risk adverse. I think it's riskier to pass up a QB your scouting department likes and have him go play well somewhere else and you walk into the season with Sanchez as your starting QB.    

 

This also has nothing to do with him "just being better than sanchez."  The entire point is that just because our last GM failed with his pick, our current GM shouldn't be afraid to take someone in the top ten that he feels is worth it.  

 

 

Idzik picks a QB this season,  Jets stink, Rex is fired,  and they bring in a new HC who wants their own hand picked QB.   Thats the way it seems to work for good coaches with experience.  The Grudens, Reids, Cowhers, etc always seem to want their guy.  Hell Ryan seems to have liked Sanchez 

 enough to be his guy.  Harbaugh got Kapernick,  Carrol got his Wilson,  and so on.    If they bring in a young coach with little experience  then its open season.    But then it becomes one of those "Rex went 6-10 with bad team,  new HC went 6-10 and the QB doesn't look any good."