Geno's mechanics are off, says QB mentor Scott Brunner

[Matt39]

http://www.metro.us/newyork/sports/nfl/2013/09/17/qb-guru-geno-smith-struggling-with-mechanical-flaws/

 

 

The ball may look pretty in mid-air, but Jets rookie quarterback Geno Smith’s three interception performance in a 13-10 loss at the Patriots wasn’t just the result of this being his second NFL start. In fact, it had everything to do with his technique.

Smith fell to the second round in the draft based on his rawness and flaws in mechanics.

Former Giants quarterback Scott Brunner, who has mentored the likes of Joe Flacco, sees them popping up in the rookie.

“Geno is a talented young quarterback. He has a tremendous skill set,” Brunner said. “Right now he is going through phases when his physical skill set and his mental skill set are not in sync. As a result his fundamentals regarding his footwork and decision making break down. When that happens, usually in critical situations, he has little chance of success.”

The answer as to why Smith floundered against the Patriots with three very different interceptions is explained in his throwing dynamics. With his technique off, passes from Smith that in college would be receptions are now interceptions due to tighter throwing windows and better athletes.

On the first interception, which came with 11:20 left in the game, Smith rolled out to his left and tried to lob a pass to wide receiver Santonio Holmes. It was a throw into double coverage and tipped and intercepted by Aqib Talib.

“Watch his back leg. His weight actually shifts ever-so-slightly back as he is in the throwing motion. That is the opposite of what one wants,” said Dr. Eric Goff, the chair of the physics department at Lynchburg University, who was asked by Metro to examine how the physics of starting under center affects a quarterback. He is the author of the critically acclaimed book “Gold Medal Physics: The Science of Sports.” “Let linear momentum help by allowing one’s center of mass to move forward with the throw. His feet are too close to together, too. He cannot generate the necessary torque for a powerful throw downfield. His pass is short.”

Brunner, who trains combine athletes at TEST Sports Clubs in Martinsville, N.J., sees similar flaws in Smith’s abilities while moving.

“He needs to become more comfortable with moving his feet while making his reads,” Brunner said. “Most young quarterbacks get into trouble because they make their reads then move their feet. This means they are late. He needs to find ways to save fractions of seconds throughout the process of executing the plays.”

Footwork was again the major issue in the second interception, where Smith badly underthrows wide receiver Clyde Gates in a pass picked off by Alfonzo Dennard.

“Once again, poor technique is keeping Smith from getting the ball farther downfield. He is not moving his upper body forward enough, i.e., he is flat-footed,” Goff said. “Without the help of a rotating core and an upper body moving forward, he simply can’t generate enough torque for the throw he wants. Again, his pass is short.”

The third interception came along the sideline when Smith underthrew a pass intended for Stephen Hill that was taken away easily by Talib.

The mistakes aren’t just mental but at the core of his technique. This is something that happens when a player falls out of his comfort zone on the field and reacts rather than relies on technique.

“His feet are wide, a bit too wide. His front foot is turned too much to the right to allow him to drive forward. The second image shows the problem with the front foot better than the first image. He is not taking advantage of his upper-leg strength and his core strength,” Goff said. “He needs to maintain a slightly more compact stance, and then drive forward while rotating his upper body. That will give him the torque needed to get his arm rotating fast enough to deliver the ball downfield. His third [throw] is woefully short."

 

[whodeawhodat]

his deep throws were definately off.  He had powell down the sideline after the cover LB fell and didnt really come close to completing the pass. 

[JiFtheOracle]

His footwork definitely leaves some room for improvement.  Though when he has a clean pocket, he steps into his throw nicely.  Should be correctable. 

[dbatesman]

Good read. Geno seems to make decent decisions in re: where to go with the ball, but he's not throwing with any authority. He had a good release and plenty of arm at WVU, so hopefully they can get it corrected.

[Sperm Edwards]

And this is why he wasn't ready to start yet.

[bitonti]

the real question is, can he fix these problems under live fire? Or does playing him now just enforce bad habits? 

[Gen X Jet]

"Right now he is going through phases when his physical skill set and his mental skill set are not in sync. "

 

Sounds like my golf game.

[Big Blocker]

the real question is, can he fix these problems under live fire? Or does playing him now just enforce bad habits? 

 

Nicely put, and I do not know the answer.  But there is certainly a risk that bad habits can be reinforced.

[Il Mostro]

At times, Geno still has the footwork of a javelin thrower, and those are the times he misses badly or gets in trouble with his throws.  When he gets set, well balanced with his feet under him, he looks pretty good.  Correctable for the vast majority of plays IMO.

[whodeawhodat]

Nicely put, and I do not know the answer.  But there is certainly a risk that bad habits can be reinforced.

 

At least we have a REAL QB coach.  Not the jerk off from PITT...

[Matt39]

Didn't Rodgers essentially have to relearn the mechanics of the position once he got to the league. I don't recall anyone thinking he might he one of the best arms in the league the year he was drafted.

[bitonti]

Didn't Rodgers essentially have to relearn the mechanics of the position once he got to the league. I don't recall anyone thinking he might he one of the best arms in the league the year he was drafted.

 

Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years, which is a luxury no Jets QB can afford. 

 

It's funny how many Sanchez haters are saying play Geno through the bad... it's like the franchise is just making the same mistakes over again. They gave this job to Geno like they gave it to Mark. Neither man earned it.

 

How does starting a not good QB against NFL defenses make him better? It only made Sanchez worse.  Maybe if there was a Matt Simms around that put Mark on the bench, his career wouldn't have gone down the toilet.

[dbatesman]

If we had Matt Simms in 2009, we would have won the Super Bowl. No doubt.

[BroadwayJoe12]

If we had Matt Simms in 2009, we would have won the Super Bowl. No doubt.

 

*Two Super Bowls.

[Sperm Edwards]

the real question is, can he fix these problems under live fire? Or does playing him now just enforce bad habits? 

 

See, this I agree with.  I don't care if he's making ill-advised throws because he's learning when to do what, and it costs us games in an obvious rebuild year.  Rookie QBs do what rookie QBs do.  If his mechanics are as off as the article says, then he really shouldn't be out there.  Walk before you run and all that.  

 

He's getting good enough protection to not get totally shell-shocked, but if he's going into his "comfort zone" of his poor mechanics they're getting reinforced rather than getting changed.

 

Not saying he won't succeed this way anyway, but it's really less than ideal to say the least.

[Sperm Edwards]

"Right now he is going through phases when his physical skill set and his mental skill set are not in sync. "

 

Sounds like my golf game.

 

A golf swing is actually a great example.  Everyone with a flaw in his swing wishes he would have "done it right" and taken a bunch of lessons from day one instead of exhibiting no patience and just playing a bunch and THEN trying to correct poor form or habits that are already ingrained.

[faba]

So where is our QB coach in all of this- if Geno needs help what exactly is he doing? Scott Brunner sucked as a QB

[Stonehands]

Here is the issue I see with this whole thing. You can talk about mechanical issues all you want, but it takes time for drills to become second nature enough for them to happen when things are ramped up to game speed and stress.  Geno has a very good QB coach now with the Jets, he just needs time to work through these issues.  In anything you do in life, practice makes perfect and you get better at things the more time you do them.  Geno needs to play through this and then we can evaluate at the end of the year whether he has improved or if he still has too far to go to not draft some competition.

[ZachEY]

the real question is, can he fix these problems under live fire? Or does playing him now just enforce bad habits? 

 

Bad habits should only be reinforced if he is successful with them. 

 

Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years, which is a luxury no Jets QB can afford. 

 

It's funny how many Sanchez haters are saying play Geno through the bad... it's like the franchise is just making the same mistakes over again. They gave this job to Geno like they gave it to Mark. Neither man earned it.

 

How does starting a not good QB against NFL defenses make him better? It only made Sanchez worse.  Maybe if there was a Matt Simms around that put Mark on the bench, his career wouldn't have gone down the toilet.

 

Sanchez was in a position that is rare.  He played poorly and they still won.  Thus, bad habits weren't necessary to be extinguished.  If Geno can't improve, it's because he's not good enough.  Not because of reinforcement of bad habits.  The game is 3 hours a week.  The not game, when he should be working on these things, are the rest of the time.

[Pac]

Here is the issue I see with this whole thing. You can talk about mechanical issues all you want, but it takes time for drills to become second nature enough for them to happen when things are ramped up to game speed and stress.  Geno has a very good QB coach now with the Jets, he just needs time to work through these issues.  In anything you do in life, practice makes perfect and you get better at things the more time you do them.  Geno needs to play through this and then we can evaluate at the end of the year whether he has improved or if he still has too far to go to not draft some competition.

 

Exactly.  I'm not so much concerned with his footwork in WK 2 as in week 13 when we're battling for that wildcard spot.

[ZachEY]

A golf swing is actually a great example.  Everyone with a flaw in his swing wishes he would have "done it right" and taken a bunch of lessons from day one instead of exhibiting no patience and just playing a bunch and THEN trying to correct poor form or habits that are already ingrained.

 

But, golf is a difficult game, and most people aren't very good.  While more lessons will improve their game, playing earlier isn't the problem, unless playing is being done instead of lessons.  Hopefully, in the golf and the football example, both are happening.  Then, in a couple of years, the player should be better, regardless of how much prep time they got.

[Sperm Edwards]

 

Sanchez was in a position that is rare.  He played poorly and they still won.  Thus, bad habits weren't necessary to be extinguished.  If Geno can't improve, it's because he's not good enough.  Not because of reinforcement of bad habits.  The game is 3 hours a week.  The not game, when he should be working on these things, are the rest of the time.

 

Also true.

 

Seems I'm going to have to sit firmly on the fence on this one until success or failure ensues.  Then I will say, in authoritative fashion, how right or wrong it was.

 

Seriously, though, if his mechanics are perfect in practice and he's just doing this stuff in games then he needs to be out there.  If he's doing this stuff in drills as well then he shouldn't be.  Only the Jets know the answer to that.

[rldev]

See, this I agree with.  I don't care if he's making ill-advised throws because he's learning when to do what, and it costs us games in an obvious rebuild year.  Rookie QBs do what rookie QBs do.  If his mechanics are as off as the article says, then he really shouldn't be out there.  Walk before you run and all that.  

 

He's getting good enough protection to not get totally shell-shocked, but if he's going into his "comfort zone" of his poor mechanics they're getting reinforced rather than getting changed.

 

Not saying he won't succeed this way anyway, but it's really less than ideal to say the least.

This reminds me of my daughter's pitching coach. He is adamant about her not pitching in the fall league while they are working extensively on mechanics. It makes sense.

[Sperm Edwards]

But, golf is a difficult game, and most people aren't very good.  While more lessons will improve their game, playing earlier isn't the problem, unless playing is being done instead of lessons.  Hopefully, in the golf and the football example, both are happening.  Then, in a couple of years, the player should be better, regardless of how much prep time they got.

 

I was referring to people who decide to take lessons AFTER playing & deciding they like the "sport." Also in golf no one is doing something to alter what you're doing (there is no one playing defense to alter your stroke mid-swing).  But while most aren't very good at golf, it's also true that most don't take lesson after lesson and only then start to play round after round.  For a lot of people it's the exact opposite & most wish they'd "done it right" from the start.

[peebag]

Sounds like someone's fishing for clients... 

[Smashmouth]

Like I pointed out in my thread claiming Smith had issues with his mechanics, at this level fundamental Mechanics are not easily fixed. These are not the things very solid prospect rookie QB;s should be working on (that's why they fall in the draft) they should be working on the mental aspect of the game. Hence the common term "Rookie Mistake" ... Fundamental mistakes should not be mixed up with rookie or mental issues they are worlds apart and trust me one takes away from the other . Fundamental usually gets worked on in the offseason because coaches usually work on game planning and the general offense during the season preparing for games.

 

I'm really not trying to be negative but when you have been doing the same things for years and years it is very difficult to fix them mechanic wise. They are usually not a big issue in High School or in College and most of the time athletes do not get the proper tutelage they need because their athleticism wins games so coaches wont tweak them they just stroke the ego and keep winning. Its why so many winning college QB's don't even sniff the Pros. 

 

On the other hand guys with incredible mechanics like a Jeff George or a Jamarcus Russel just can't hack the Mental aspect. Some guys do it both right off the bat like  a Dan Marino.

 

Once again the biggest thing to learn at the NFL level is the Mental aspect its going to be hard for Geno to correct his flaws and I certainly hope he does.  

[jetsjetsjetss]

it takes much more repetitions then you get in a game to commit something to muscle memory

 

an nba coach i had the pleasure of talking to once explained that you have to practice like you play. If geno is lax on his mechanics in practice because the defense isnt playing as tough and the receivers are wide open that is going to screw him up more then making bad decisions in the game

[JoeKlecko]

matt, thanks for posting this.  It's a good read.

 

This is exactly why he wasn't ready to start yet and it is questionable whether he will be able to fix it while playing in games.  There the focus has to be on reading Ds and scoring points, not on fundamentals/technique.  In an ideal world, Geno wouldn't have started.  Idzik would have had a healthy, quality vet to start so Geno could focus on fixing his fundamentals.  This is definitely on Idzik.  Garrard was not the right choice.  That said and in defense of Idzik, I'm sure he must have thought that either Garrard would have been able to start, or Sanchez might have shown enough improvement so that he could start while Geno worked on his fundamentals.  Obviously, that didn't happen, so the Jets have to figure out the best way to proceed for both Geno and the team.

 

This info from Brunner has given me second thoughts about my earlier position that Geno should continue to start unless injured.

 

I now think that if Geno continues to throw picks in the next game or two, the Jets tell him they're going to sit him for 8 weeks so that he can focus solely on fixing his fundamentals (possibly less if they're fixed sooner) and then start Quinn for that stretch of games. If Quinn was worse than Geno or got injured, then they could give Simms a shot.  They could also tell Geno that unless Quinn lit it up during that time, he would return to the starting role for the last 5-6 games (somewhat imitating what the Giants did with Warner and Eli) regardless of where he was with his fundamentals. I think they've already seen enough to know that Geno has real potential to be their franchise QB IF his fundamentals get fixed.  I dont' think they can accurately judge whether or not they need to draft another QB high next season until they see Geno play with much better fundamentals.  If Quinn really lit things up during his starts, then they could go with him and tell Geno he'd have a chance to compete for the starting job next season.  If somehow Quinn because a solid QB, great.  The Jets could then keep him as the starter, let Geno, Simms and he fight it out for the starting job next year, or if they thought highly enough of Geno and Simms, trade Quinn to a QB needy team.  The reality is that Quinn won't suddenly become a good QB here, but it would give Geno time to at least greatly improve, if not completely fix his fundamentals.

 

I doubt that will happen however.  To do that the Jets would have to admit they made a mistake by rushing Geno onto the field before he was ready. That won't happen.  It's almost a lose-lose proposition for the Jets, because regardless what they do, Cimini and Mehta are going to bash the team for their handling of the QB situation.

 

Hopefully, Geno won't ingrain these bad habits permanently and/or this won't hurt his arm, confidence or development in the long run.  Hopefully, he can spend the entire offseason working on getting his fundamentals ironed out.

[peebag]

If the Jets won that Pats game, Geno would have been annointed the saviour of the Jets....it was his 2nd game ever....let's talk after the season....

[Smashmouth]

it takes much more repitions then you get in a game to commit something to muscle memory

 

an nba coach i had the pleasure of talking to once explained that you have to practice like you play. If geno is lax on his mechanics in practice because the defense isnt playing as tough that is going to screw him up more then making bad decisions in the game

Exactly because in the heat of the Moment in a game most of the time you revert back to what you have done for years and years. This really is not an easy process. Luckily Geno seems like the type of guy who will work hard.

[JoeKlecko]

So where is our QB coach in all of this- if Geno needs help what exactly is he doing? Scott Brunner sucked as a QB

 

I'm sure he's helping him as much as he can, but when one is focusing on learning plays, studying film of opponents, learning game plans, working on reading Ds, that doesn't leave much time for focusing on fundamentals.  That's why I steadfastly maintained earlier that Geno was not ready to start and that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to fix his fundamentals while playing.

[JoeKlecko]

Bad habits should only be reinforced if he is successful with them. 

 

 

Sanchez was in a position that is rare.  He played poorly and they still won.  Thus, bad habits weren't necessary to be extinguished.  If Geno can't improve, it's because he's not good enough.  Not because of reinforcement of bad habits.  The game is 3 hours a week.  The not game, when he should be working on these things, are the rest of the time.

 

There is no "should".  Training the body works the way it works.  One can't say that it "shouldn't" be that way.  That doesn't change the reality at all.  Repeating a bad habit/poor fundamental "reinforces" it regardless of the outcome since we're talking about muscle memory and not rational thought.

 

The rest of what you say is utter hogwash.  It shows a complete lack of understanding of what goes into preparation for games.

[The Crusher]

And this is why he wasn't ready to start yet.

 

 

Agreed.  But as long as expectations stay reasonable it's a hell of a chance for him to learn.  So far he has proved that he is a lot more mature in handling pressure and failure than we thought he would be.  As long as he doesn't start to break down emotionally I think the kid has a good shot. Sadly as much as I hate to say it I think he will improve when he has more weapo......  Yeah those.  LOL

[JoeKlecko]

Also true.

 

Seems I'm going to have to sit firmly on the fence on this one until success or failure ensues.  Then I will say, in authoritative fashion, how right or wrong it was.

 

Seriously, though, if his mechanics are perfect in practice and he's just doing this stuff in games then he needs to be out there.  If he's doing this stuff in drills as well then he shouldn't be.  Only the Jets know the answer to that.

 

I'd be willing to bet the ranch that they're happening in practice.  Yes, the pressure of performance can make the bad habits worse, but not make them appear from nowhere.  

[JoeKlecko]

I was referring to people who decide to take lessons AFTER playing & deciding they like the "sport." Also in golf no one is doing something to alter what you're doing (there is no one playing defense to alter your stroke mid-swing).  But while most aren't very good at golf, it's also true that most don't take lesson after lesson and only then start to play round after round.  For a lot of people it's the exact opposite & most wish they'd "done it right" from the start.

 

You must have better friends than I do.