How much time should a QB get?

[Jetster]

Well it's been that kind of year.

Hell it's been that kind of 6 years regarding our QB position.

Steve Young says it takes at least 5 years & 10,000 hours to MASTER the QB position.

Right now in the NFL you have maybe 3 masters.

Payton, Brady, Rogers & Andrew Luck is on his way.

Below that you have guys with bachelor degrees Rivers, Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson on his way.

Below that you have a clusterf*ck of QBs that will never win a Superbowl without an incredible defense to compliment them. So, I can understand someone like Sheldon taking exception to the absolute abuse that is being heaped on Geno Smith.

Do I think Geno is a "franchise QB"? I don't, but do I think under the right circumstances he could an above average QB? Maybe. Who the hell knows anymore. Right now in the NFL if you don't come out guns a blazing your instantly labeled a bust.

Tannyhill in Miami had many, many bad games, difference is that in Miami the scrutiny is much smaller than in NY, so quietly he's been able (under a good QB coach in Philbin) learn his craft without the noise.

Same as Dalton in Cincy. Sure fans didn't believe in him & people called in to radio stations, but for the most part Ohioans sat on there hands & watched him come around to a "serviceable QB"

In NY the pitchforks come out early. According to Steve Young he's an still an infant learning a mans craft.

And he's trying to learn behind what I would consider a below average Oline, with still very few weapons or speed. No matter who we bring in here as our QB until the culture of this Jet organization changes & we get the right coaching in here to bring us into this new direction that the NFL is headed we'll be slogging in quick sand.

Rex & Marty are dinosaurs, guys that are stuck in their ways, stubborn as hell & both have failed to prove they could be Head honchos and not just coordinators. But here's the most interesting aspect of these two guys, both were left standing at the alter in previous gigs. Rex was passed over by Ozzie Newsome for John Harbaugh & Andy Reid went off to KC without inviting his OC.

So, while everyone's calling for John Idziks head there are things he had no control over such as his coaches or injuries. Rex expiration date had arrived last year, he should have been tossed with the arrival of a new GM. But maybe Idzik told Woody the guy he wants won't be available until after this season who knows? We are in a rebuild & is there anyone that thought Rex had a long leash this year?

We had a bad draft, it happens but Amaro seems like he can play, Pryor needs time to mature, we still don't know what we have in McDougle, Evans & Dozier.

We will have approximately 50 million to spend. We are going to have a high pick in each round of the 2015 draft. We have got to change the direction of this team from a defensive team to a more aggressive offensive team so I think it's absolutely imperative that we get a coach in here that is both a QB coach & an offensive minded coach. I don't know who, but I do know the type of guy I want.

I think Idzik knows this as much as anyone, Woody hired him because he's cautious & not impulsive.

Right now everyone wants to hang him from the rafters but guess what? He's not going anywhere & he's going to get his chance now to point the Jets in the direction he wants to go. It's been 44 years & this organization has always been impulsive & that's gotten us nowhere.

Five years from now it will be interesting to look back to this moment.

Let's hope it's 5 years moving up because again, we can't get much lower, but I do know one thing, like Steve Young said, it takes time whoever the young QB will be. Will we ever have the patience in NY?

[Kevin L]

IMHO the days of waiting 5 years for a QB to develop are over. Luck, Wilson, Newton and RG3 all proved that young QBs can win games early in their careers and perform at high levels. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Alex Smith the last QB

who took that long to "develop"? If that's the level we can expect from "slow developers", no thanks.

[NYJ37/12]

It will be 46 years on January 12th.

 

I believe your question only has a subjective answer. In today's NFL players do not have the same time to develop as they did in the past. In NY/NJ, time is doubled.

 

That being said, you can usually tell if a player has the goods or not early on. In my subjective answer, Geno does not.

[bitonti]

2.5 seconds. 

[jgb]

geno is horrible and will always be horrible. there is a 0% chance he even has a weak sanchez-like resurgence with a new team. cut without fear of regret.

[Jetster]

IMHO the days of waiting 5 years for a QB to develop are over. Luck, Wilson, Newton and RG3 all proved that young QBs can win games early in their careers and perform at high levels. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Alex Smith the last QB

who took that long to "develop"? If that's the level we can expect from "slow developers", no thanks.

If that's the case than you have to pick a QB in each draft until you get that guy your confident in.

Not a bad strategy because of the 1st round cap now.

Otherwise you slog along like we have been since Pennington.

Wilson is the only consistent performer of the guys you listed above.

RG3 was BENCHED, Newton is an entirely different QB if he doesn't run. Not saying he can't perfect the pocket but he's not there yet.

You can't even talk about Luck ( the only can't miss prospect in years!)

There have been QBs who got better after they were tossed aside. Steve Young, Vinny T, Ripkin, Alex Smith, even Pennington won the division for Miami, there are more just can't think of them right now.

Everyone was sold on Luck coming out, you can't include him.

If your only satisfied with an instant QB starting with a rookie you might as well not even watch! Aaron Rogers sat on the bench for 3 years because they had Favre. Probably best preparation he could have. Learn behind a HOF, coached by an offensive mind in McCarthy. Same system for his whole career. That's the path to success.

Jets need a long term coach with a long term system. Who that is I haven't a clue, but am hoping Idzik has an idea.

[jetrider]

Marty believes there's "no question" Geno can be a fine QB.

 

Marty also believed he can call timeouts, so there's that.

[Kevin L]

If that's the case than you have to pick a QB in each draft until you get that guy your confident in.

Not a bad strategy because of the 1st round cap now.

Otherwise you slog along like we have been since Pennington.

Wilson is the only consistent performer of the guys you listed above.

RG3 was BENCHED, Newton is an entirely different QB if he doesn't run. Not saying he can't perfect the pocket but he's not there yet.

You can't even talk about Luck ( the only can't miss prospect in years!)

There have been QBs who got better after they were tossed aside. Steve Young, Vinny T, Ripkin, Alex Smith, even Pennington won the division for Miami, there are more just can't think of them right now.

Everyone was sold on Luck coming out, you can't include him.

If your only satisfied with an instant QB starting with a rookie you might as well not even watch! Aaron Rogers sat on the bench for 3 years because they had Favre. Probably best preparation he could have. Learn behind a HOF, coached by an offensive mind in McCarthy. Same system for his whole career. That's the path to success.

Jets need a long term coach with a long term system. Who that is I haven't a clue, but am hoping Idzik has an idea.

I get what you're saying, but I look at it like this; if you're waiting 5 years for a bad QB to "develop" into an average QB, you just wasted 5 years. Average doesn't win Super Bowls unless everything breaks just right for you (Dilfer, Eli Manning).

[Warfish]

A QB should get as much time as it takes to see if he has the potential to be a Franchise QB or not.

 

IMO, if it takes more than 16 starts to determine that, you have a bigger problem than the QB himself, it means your GM and Head Coach are poor evaluators of talent and potential.

 

I.e. Rex and Idzik should both know, without ANY debate, if Geno is or isn;t a future franchise QB, and act accordingly (i.e. cut him or demote him).

[Gastineau Lives]

Well it's been that kind of year.

Hell it's been that kind of 6 years regarding our QB position.

Steve Young says it takes at least 5 years & 10,000 hours to MASTER the QB position.

Right now in the NFL you have maybe 3 masters.

Payton, Brady, Rogers & Andrew Luck is on his way.

Below that you have guys with bachelor degrees Rivers, Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson on his way.

Below that you have a clusterf*ck of QBs that will never win a Superbowl without an incredible defense to compliment them. So, I can understand someone like Sheldon taking exception to the absolute abuse that is being heaped on Geno Smith.

Do I think Geno is a "franchise QB"? I don't, but do I think under the right circumstances he could an above average QB? Maybe. Who the hell knows anymore. Right now in the NFL if you don't come out guns a blazing your instantly labeled a bust.

 

 

You named seven QB's that were franchise quarterbacks and then you called the rest (25) a cluster**** that will not win a Super Bowl without an incredible defense to compliment them yet you want us to give Geno a chance to get good enough to place himself squarely in the middle of the cluster****(he is at the very bottom of the cluster**** right now)

 

No thanks.

[Beerfish]

Not long at all.  In the vast majority of cases a QB will show you soemnthing special very soon in his career, he may not be great or have a winning record but he does some things to make you think he will be the guy.  Also from year one to year two is criical, there has to be tangible improvment, if there is not then deep six the guy as a starter  (this is Geno)

[jetrider]

Well it's been that kind of year.

Hell it's been that kind of 6 years regarding our QB position.

Steve Young says it takes at least 5 years & 10,000 hours to MASTER the QB position.

Right now in the NFL you have maybe 3 masters.

Payton, Brady, Rogers & Andrew Luck is on his way.

Below that you have guys with bachelor degrees Rivers, Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson on his way.

 

 

Ben, Wilson, Eli, Brees, Flacco are a tier above Rivers, Ryan

[Jetster]

A QB should get as much time as it takes to see if he has the potential to be a Franchise QB or not.

IMO, if it takes more than 16 starts to determine that, you have a bigger problem than the QB himself, it means your GM and Head Coach are poor evaluators of talent and potential.

I.e. Rex and Idzik should both know, without ANY debate, if Geno is or isn;t a future franchise QB, and act accordingly (i.e. cut him or demote him).

Agreed.

I think the pressure of playing in NY is so great that as soon as these young guys hit the wall of adversity they lose their focus & and start trying to play mistake free ball, which in turn limits their ability to do just that. You guys have been there, as soon as you start TRYING NOT TO F up you do. Confidence is crucial to an NFL QB.

Letting your QB hand off 49 times & only let him throw 4 times in a full half of football is asinine! Are you telling me that on one side you have Rex stating " we have all the confidence in the world in Geno" but you don't take a shot long on at least a few of the 2nd or 3rd & shorts you don't playaction when your running the ball up someone's azz!

Bullsh*t!

Ok, on one try he missed Harvin, well for gods sake he'd only thrown the ball maybe 3 times in over a god damned hour of being on the field. Every QB needs to have some kind of rhythm!

Brady looked pretty damned pedestrian in the 2010 playoffs when he had to sit on the sideline twiddling his thumbs while the Jets kept converting on 3rd down. That's how you beat those guys by getting them out of sync.

Our coaching staff sucks! They are where they are now because we don't prepare well, as evidenced by Rex getting blown out after he comes off a bye. 2 weeks to prepare is actually detrimental to our coach because he has no clue. Each & every year in his 6 years he told us how good they looked in practice, even stating this year before the 2nd Bills game coming off a bye that we were a ZILLION times better than when we played them the last time, LMAO!

Well guess what? They obviously weren't preparing the Oline for what the Bills defensive front was going to do!

Look at our special teams, the worst I can remember & someone tell me again why every single Jet fan in the world can see that our punter sucks but the coaching staff! Or why Kyle Wilson still celebrates tackles 9 yards down the field, or why Willie Colon has just been called for another false start, Landry just missed another tackle, or why we play action on 1st & goal when we haven't play actioned all game, or why we just got another 12 men on the field penalty or why we can't seem to stop pushing guys in the back on every god damned punt & kickoff, or why David Harris & Calvin Pace keep getting caught trying to stay with receivers that run 4.3 fortys!

Tell me please!

[Jetster]

Ben, Wilson, Eli, Brees, Flacco are a tier above Rivers, Ryan

Don't agree, but whatever.

[Patriot Killa]

Philbin... a good coach..? HAAAAAAA. No. Try again.

[BigRy56]

Honestly it depends on the quarterback showing progression. If Geno had a positive TD/INT (Say 20-15) ratio I think everybody would feel more comfortable about him and give him another season.. not to mention the Jets would have a much better record.

 

If a QB shows no progress or even regresses, as Geno has seemed to do, his time gets dramatically shortened/eventually finished. Just as has happened/will happen.

[Jetster]

Philbin... a good coach..? HAAAAAAA. No. Try again.

Philbin has had to deal with WAY MORE player change & controversy than Rex has ever had in his 6 years!

He had to totally REBUILD his entire Oline!, while still bringing along a young QB.

Is he a great coach? I won't say great., but he's done a damn good job taking control this year after the mess he dealt with last year.

[Jetster]

Not long at all.  In the vast majority of cases a QB will show you soemnthing special very soon in his career, he may not be great or have a winning record but he does some things to make you think he will be the guy.  Also from year one to year two is criical, there has to be tangible improvment, if there is not then deep six the guy as a starter  (this is Geno)

Cam Newton has regressed, should Carolina give up on him?

[#27TheDominator]

The problem with Geno goes beyond poor performance.  He looks like a sulker and does not seem like a leader.  Young said it takes 10,000 hours.  Does Geno look like he is putting in those hours?  It goes beyond knowing what to do, as Young says, it takes a special talent to have what you know be an instantaneous reaction and not require time to think.  Don't ask me how I know.  It is easy to do it against competition, but in the NFL things happen so fast that time spent thinking = disaster.

[Beerfish]

Cam Newton has regressed, should Carolina give up on him?

You didn't read my post, Cam Newton showed something special his 1st year, enough to hang your hat on.  If he stays at his level next year?  Yes you do get rid of him.  How about RG3?

[rillo]

6 games.

[#27TheDominator]

6 games.

 

Maybe we shouldn't think in terms of games.  Maybe we should think in terms of turnovers.  Maybe you give them 35 turnovers to decide. 

[rillo]

Maybe we shouldn't think in terms of games. Maybe we should think in terms of turnovers. Maybe you give them 35 turnovers to decide.

I like this idea. If the qb has a "butt fumble" that should equate to 3 turnovers on the decide sheet.

[Patriot Killa]

Philbin has had to deal with WAY MORE player change & controversy than Rex has ever had in his 6 years!

He had to totally REBUILD his entire Oline!, while still bringing along a young QB.

Is he a great coach? I won't say great., but he's done a damn good job taking control this year after the mess he dealt with last year.

Half ass cleaning up a mess that runs deeper than last year does not make you a good coach.

[flgreen]

I like this idea. If the qb has a "butt fumble" that should equate to 3 turnovers on the decide sheet.

How about a behind the butt fumble?

[Patriot Killa]

How about a behind the butt fumble?

What about trying to switch the ball to your other hand behind your butt?

[patman]

I agree with Young that it can take 5 years for a qb to finally mature into being all that he can be. But that this increase in skill set is not just a result of osmosis, but that the qb himself has to put in the work to get better. Did the QB come from Eastern kentucky or a program like Alabama/Louisville. Who is his QB/OC coach? Is there consistancy there?

 

I don't think Geno has reached his peak as a qb, the question should revolve his maturity and work ethic, (and I don't mean lifting weights or looking at film) but actually working with coaches and listening to what they saw and taking the steps to improve. His inmaturity was shown by him being on the sidelines by himself and not stading by MM on the sidleines when Vick was out there and picking his brain. You never seen him with one of the new tablets showing the "all 22" film.  Now why didn't Rex go over to him and tell him to get his head out of his ass is another story.

[Lupz27]

The problem with Geno goes beyond poor performance. He looks like a sulker and does not seem like a leader. Young said it takes 10,000 hours. Does Geno look like he is putting in those hours? It goes beyond knowing what to do, as Young says, it takes a special talent to have what you know be an instantaneous reaction and not require time to think. Don't ask me how I know. It is easy to do it against competition, but in the NFL things happen so fast that time spent thinking = disaster.

Thinking is for pre snap, reacting is for post snap. Like Steve Young says 10,000 hours, your reactions should be just fine if your 10,000 hours of studying has made your thinking correct pre snap.

[#27TheDominator]

Thinking is for pre snap, reacting is for post snap. Like Steve Young says 10,000 hours, your reactions should be just fine if your 10,000 hours of studying has made your thinking correct pre snap.

 

I think you have a contradiction in there.  Correct thinking pre-snap does not equal reaction.  There are some very smart guys that NEVER get anywhere near that level.  Not every failed QB is Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell.  It is far from simple. 

[bitonti]

Thinking is for pre snap, reacting is for post snap. Like Steve Young says 10,000 hours, your reactions should be just fine if your 10,000 hours of studying has made your thinking correct pre snap.

 

the 10000 hours rule is actually from Malcolm Gladwell, and it's recently been disproved.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-study-destroys-malcolm-gladwells-10000-rule-2014-7

 

Some people don't have it. Not everyone can become an expert after 10000 hours. 

[NCJETSFAN]

Genos prob is being inconsident! He was that way in college also . That's not going away so even though he has the arm strength to play doesn't make you a pro bowl qb either! Just ask Jeff George .

[Better2bgreenthanblue]

Geno lacks mental toughness. I also think he has a slow twitch mind. Sure his wonderlic is average but he just seems dull when playing, speaking, etc. some guys love adversity and pressure I think those are traits a FQB needs., Geno seems like a lover not a fighter. We need a crazy adrenaline junky QB, with a 30+ wonderlic, good arm and some charisma (oh boy sounds like Winston/Manziel type). Too bad Matt Harvey doesn't play football!!