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Is anyone concern over Bowles's AZ 24 ranked Defense? 260 passing yards and 110 rushing yards per game

DRJETS

By DRJETS
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DRJETS

DRJETS

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I am far more concerned with a Bills fan constantly trolling the JetsNation forums. I think it is time you consider a BillsNation message board, your loyalty is clearly to Rex Ryan, not the Jets, no?

 

How dare you, rookie.  :banned: 

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jack48

jack48

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There was a period last year where the Cardinals had 23 sacks in 5 games.  This with multiple injuries on D.

 

Yeah, not concerned one iota.  Besides, Bowles' new job is to oversee all football operations.  Haven't we learned by now we'll need to judge him on wins and losses rather than the performance of the side of the ball he's most familiar?

Me, I will take the points plowed stat.  What else matters?

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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#5 in scoring defense and #7 in DVOA. The Cards played a tough schedule and it it reflected in the raw stats. Most educated observers understood this and rewarded Bowles by naming him Assistant Coach of the Year. 

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

plus his offense STUNK after Ellington/Palmer went down. 3 and outs were routine and bad field position for Todd's D was routine

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j4jets

j4jets

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No.

The two years he coordinated there, he had the #7 and #5 scoring defense. And he did it this year missing a handful of MAJOR contributors from 2013. Until they decide to put yards up on the scoreboard instead of points, I am not at all concerned.

Actually, yards tell a better story about a D than points. Pick sixes, short fields due to three n outs, n special teams can cause very short fields where opposing teams can already be in a scoring range without the D even taking the field. They may not put yards on the board, but it's a good measurement of how you are performing between the 20s,

In AZ, I'm not sure how Bowles managed a top scoring D n a below average yards D with backup QBs on offense. I didnt watch any of their games this year.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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Letting up 500-600 yards of offense to the opponent in 25% of their regular season games may be a red flag and it may not. 6 divisional games were not played against the NFL's scoring powerhouses. They had a lot of tough matchups, but their D also faced its share of creampuff offenses (early-season NYG, Wash, Oak, late-season KC, in addition to 2x each against SF and StL.

Further, that points-surrendered rank is a little inflated because opponents only scored 1 TD against Arizona's offense (one pick-6, no fumble return TDs, no KO return TDs, no punt return TDs). Looking back at our '09 team for comparison, we let up 7 TDs while our D was off the field.

On the flip side, the D did score 4 TDs, pick off 18 passes, and looks like they picked up 7 fumbles. It's good (and pathetically it was about double the Jets' total), but 25 turnovers isn't elite either. On paper it isn't appreciably better than the league's average (23.7); an average that includes our turnover-starved team.

He was Miami's secondary coach for 4 years and it wasn't much to brag about.

However, tucking all that away, he's here to be the HC not the DC or secondary coach.

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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Letting up 500-600 yards of offense to the opponent in 25% of their regular season games may be a red flag and it may not. 6 divisional games were not played against the NFL's scoring powerhouses. They had a lot of tough matchups, but their D also faced its share of creampuff offenses (early-season NYG, Wash, Oak, late-season KC, in addition to 2x each against SF and StL.

Further, that points-surrendered rank is a little inflated because opponents only scored 1 TD against Arizona's offense (one pick-6, no fumble return TDs, no KO return TDs, no punt return TDs). Looking back at our '09 team for comparison, we let up 7 TDs while our D was off the field.

On the flip side, the D did score 4 TDs, pick off 18 passes, and looks like they picked up 7 fumbles. It's good (and pathetically it was about double the Jets' total), but 25 turnovers isn't elite either. On paper it isn't appreciably better than the league's average (23.7); an average that includes our turnover-starved team.

He was Miami's secondary coach for 4 years and it wasn't much to brag about.

However, tucking all that away, he's here to be the HC not the DC or secondary coach.

and he has a great last name for the Media and backpages if things go South  :(

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Larz

Larz

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remember that time he beat the jets with matt moore as his QB and got 3 INT's from his defense ?

 

neither does the OP, lol

 

all kidding aside, lets just take it one step at a time.  lets let him hire a staff, and run mini-camp before we panic and say he sucks.

 

premature declaration isn't pretty

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Beerfish

Beerfish

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Pts. allowed is the only stat that really matters. The rest is fluff for losers to feel better about themselves. Listening Rex?

I would say that turnovers should be added to your points allowed stat because they often have a direct correlation with your offense scoring.  Looking at why the pats have dominated the AFC east for years one often looks to Belly or Brady but as much as anything turnover differential.  Even in years in which the Pats had poor looking defenses that gave up gobs of yards they created turnovers at a high rate.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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remember that time he beat the jets with matt moore as his QB and got 3 INT's from his defense ?

 

neither does the OP, lol

 

all kidding aside, lets just take it one step at a time.  lets let him hire a staff, and run mini-camp before we panic and say he sucks.

 

premature declaration isn't pretty

 

Absolutely. 

 

Not going to lie, I do wish he had a bit more experience in being more than just a positional coach who wasn't typically overseeing dominant secondaries.  But he's also bounced around enough to have been around a number of head coaches up close. Hopefully he picked up what things were more successful than others. He may end up as a fairly unremarkable secondary coach who turns out to be an outstanding head coach. 

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Larz

Larz

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Absolutely. 

 

Not going to lie, I do wish he had a bit more experience in being more than just a positional coach who wasn't typically overseeing dominant secondaries.  But he's also bounced around enough to have been around a number of head coaches up close. Hopefully he picked up what things were more successful than others. He may end up as a fairly unremarkable secondary coach who turns out to be an outstanding head coach. 

 

well said.  I really hope he winds up an executive style HC that doesn't call plays on game day.  Sort of like John Fox or Pete Carroll or Mike Tomlin.  

 

It's impossible to know how he will function in that role if he indeed does go that route. 

 

So far I like that the common theme of people who knew him commenting that he is "intelligent and consistent"   

 

I sure would like to follow a team that plays smart football and doesn't hurt themselves

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Bugg

Bugg

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Basically. 

 

They had 18 interceptions, four defensive TDs, all while overcoming injuries on his side of the ball, with a less talented front than the Jets have. I'm excited to see a defense that's all about takeaways. If he builds on the Jets rushing defense and pass rush, this could be a quality unit. 

Agree. Simply caution takeaways and turnovers are not completely but to some degree random. Still would stand to reason a resourceful coach like Bowles has been will work with what he has to make the best of it. There have been many successful defenses that give up yards midffield and man up inside the 30 ior 40. Given the Cards often played without an offense Palmer went down, think Bowles is that kind of guy to see what works instead of being wedded to HIS SYSTEM. 

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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well said.  I really hope he winds up an executive style HC that doesn't call plays on game day.  Sort of like John Fox or Pete Carroll or Mike Tomlin.  

 

It's impossible to know how he will function in that role if he indeed does go that route. 

 

So far I like that the common theme of people who knew him commenting that he is "intelligent and consistent"   

 

I sure would like to follow a team that plays smart football and doesn't hurt themselves

I think he will be fine,, now we need to get him players

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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well said.  I really hope he winds up an executive style HC that doesn't call plays on game day.  Sort of like John Fox or Pete Carroll or Mike Tomlin.  

 

It's impossible to know how he will function in that role if he indeed does go that route. 

 

So far I like that the common theme of people who knew him commenting that he is "intelligent and consistent"   

 

I sure would like to follow a team that plays smart football and doesn't hurt themselves

 

Well sort of. Carroll was one of the game's top defensive coordinators. Initially, as a HC, he was a pushover and the players walked all over him.

 

Tomlin is a good example that you bring up. Bowles has more than a decade greater coaching experience than Tomlin had, but each was really only a coordinator for a year and neither oversaw dominant units in their brief stints. Tomlin may very well be a better HC than he would have been as a DC. I know he kind of walked into a great situation, but it's not like he did nothing with it. 

 

Fox is a good comparison also. Though he oversaw a few top 10 (and a couple of top 5) defenses with the Giants, their high points-surrendered rank wasn't always accompanied by an equally high yards-surrendered rank. (like Bowles in his 1 year in Arizona). I'm not as impressed with him as a HC as others, but he did almost win a SB with Jake Delhomme.

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The Troll

The Troll

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Actually, yards tell a better story about a D than points. Pick sixes, short fields due to three n outs, n special teams can cause very short fields where opposing teams can already be in a scoring range without the D even taking the field. They may not put yards on the board, but it's a good measurement of how you are performing between the 20s,

In AZ, I'm not sure how Bowles managed a top scoring D n a below average yards D with backup QBs on offense. I didnt watch any of their games this year.

The flipside to that is that teams that are giving up short fields all the time will give up less yards.

 

Until teams win games based on yards gained, points allowed will continue to be the better defense metric.

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j4jets

j4jets

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The flipside to that is that teams that are giving up short fields all the time will give up less yards.

 

Until teams win games based on yards gained, points allowed will continue to be the better defense metric.

 

Short field, quick drive n score/turnover, quick three n outs from opposing offense, short field, quick drive....rinse and repeat. Shorter fields mean more number of drives. If you can't stop offenses from driving down the field, you're not a good D in general.

 

Yards and points go hand in hand in most cases. This is actually an interesting case. Maybe they created turnovers near the goal line? Or forced more FGs than TDs? I can't comment since I didn't watch their games or paid any attention to their stats besides whats reported in this thread.

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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Well sort of. Carroll was one of the game's top defensive coordinators. Initially, as a HC, he was a pushover and the players walked all over him.

 

Tomlin is a good example that you bring up. Bowles has more than a decade greater coaching experience than Tomlin had, but each was really only a coordinator for a year and neither oversaw dominant units in their brief stints. Tomlin may very well be a better HC than he would have been as a DC. I know he kind of walked into a great situation, but it's not like he did nothing with it. 

 

Fox is a good comparison also. Though he oversaw a few top 10 (and a couple of top 5) defenses with the Giants, their high points-surrendered rank wasn't always accompanied by an equally high yards-surrendered rank. (like Bowles in his 1 year in Arizona). I'm not as impressed with him as a HC as others, but he did almost win a SB with Jake Delhomme.

I am NOT a Fox fan. He is like Rex where he basically sabotages (maybe subconsciously) his Offense to protect his 'my Defense will win game for us, Offense stay out of my D's f'in way" philosophy

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