Jet Fan RI Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 no read the pdf in the link. it is too much to cut and paste During testing, twelve brand new footballs were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree Fahrenheit room. This was to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50 degree Fahrenheit environment to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game. In addition, the footballs were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions. OK. The timing here is wrong. The refs get the balls 2+ hours before gametime. But the balls aren't brought out to the field until a few minutes before gametime.. See MMQB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 you can tell that when the ball boy gets the ball from the ref and goes to the sideline there is a large blue bag that is wide open and the kid just throws the ball inside it, the bag is open to the elements he gets another ball and dries it with the towel he is holding. They are not zipping and unziping the bag every 5 min. when Brady or the refs want another dry ball. your throwing wet balls in and exposing the contents to rain, The balls don't have to be fulls submersed to exhibit evaporative cooling. All speculation, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 can anyone explain the physics of the colts balls being fine ? were they inflated with dark matter or some spooky sh*t ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 can anyone explain the physics of the colts balls being fine ? were they inflated with dark matter or some spooky sh*t ? It is possible the Colts' balls were inflated to 13.5 psi initially, and suffered 1 psi natural deflation in the 1st half, remaining legal at halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 what about the poor 12th ball ? pretty much proof of tampering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 It is possible the Colts' balls were inflated to 13.5 psi initially, and suffered 1 psi natural deflation in the 1st half, remaining legal at halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 what about the poor 12th ball ? pretty much proof of tampering I agree. I think the guy who brought the balls into the restroom to deflate them simply missed 1 ball, So that 1 ball only suffered, at most, 1 psi natural deflation. The other 11 balls got an additional 1 psi manual deflation, giving 2 psi total deflation per ball.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRONX DUDE Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I THINK the Pats and their fans are warming their balls together at this very moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaJet Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 what about the poor 12th ball ? pretty much proof of tampering Uhhhh, well, uhhh that one was inflated at a different locker room with different temperature. Or maybe it wasnt as cold when that particular ball was inflated, or maybe the refs messed up, or maybe or maybe or maybe....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Nobody hired Headsmart to do anything. They volunteered. As a proud Irish American, my chances of trusting a "study" supposedly exonerating the Patriots done by a guy named Healy from Boston is exactly zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Don't know if you are directing this at me, but I am a physicist and can deal with the gas laws without extra guidance. Oh, yeah? I played Single A ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 OK. The timing here is wrong. The refs get the balls 2+ hours before gametime. But the balls aren't brought out to the field until a few minutes before gametime.. See MMQB Correct 15 min before game time. Then the balls were exposed to 50 degree air for 90 min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 All speculation, really. Well you can check the video, it is online, the bag is open and the kid throws the ball in and gets another. can anyone explain the physics of the colts balls being fine ? were they inflated with dark matter or some spooky sh*t ? it is simple, if the colts filled their balls up outside on the field, or in the equipment room or in a passageway, there would be no or very little temp variation between the outside atmospheric conditions or if they used an aircompressor that had a reservoir (gasses under under pressure gets colder) the air inside the ball is already then at 50 degrees so there would be no pressure drop as the temp of the air remains constant. The difference is that the Pats said in BBs presser that the balls for that game were filled in the heated lockerroom (how well heated is a debate is a bone of contention between me an my fellow citizen of RI) to be 12.5 psi and then were bounced, squeezed, rubbed to get the surface condition the way Brady likes it. They were then immediately directly taken to the refs for inspection around two hours before game time. The temp dif between the lockerroom and the officials office I would say is slight maybe 7 degrees. if the official checked the balls with 1 hour of inflation, the pressure drop due to the 7 degree delta in ambient would be minimal, maybe .1 lb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 It is possible the Colts' balls were inflated to 13.5 psi initially, and suffered 1 psi natural deflation in the 1st half, remaining legal at halftime. I don't see how this would jive with the pats balls being 2 psi low. Wouldn't the pats balls have to be less than 1 psi low if the Colts balls were at max 1 psi low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Well you can check the video, it is online, the bag is open and the kid throws the ball in and gets another. it is simple, if the colts filled their balls up outside on the field, or in the equipment room or in a passageway, there would be no or very little temp variation between the outside atmospheric conditions or if they used an aircompressor that had a reservoir (gasses under under pressure gets colder) the air inside the ball is already then at 50 degrees so there would be no pressure drop as the temp of the air remains constant. The difference is that the Pats said in BBs presser that the balls for that game were filled in the heated lockerroom (how well heated is a debate is a bone of contention between me an my fellow citizen of RI) to be 12.5 psi and then were bounced, squeezed, rubbed to get the surface condition the way Brady likes it. They were then immediately directly taken to the refs for inspection around two hours before game time. The temp dif between the lockerroom and the officials office I would say is slight maybe 7 degrees. if the official checked the balls with 1 hour of inflation, the pressure drop due to the 7 degree delta in ambient would be minimal, maybe .1 lb All that bullsh*t bouncing and rubbing goes in during the week. No way would they wait till a few minutes before hand to do the ball prep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Oh Jesus Christ, the Patriots obviously did this. The arguing is stupid. Patriot fans should be positioned behind 1.) the NFL won't be able to prove it, or 2.) the NFL won't be willing to prove it. Period. Any reasonable, unbiased halfwit can tell you they did it. Look at the body language of Brady and Belichick when they've spoken about it. Listen to the things they are saying to posture and create plausible deniability. Patriots fans should be defending their team. That is a given. Respectable Patriots fans should be defending their team by saying they are too ******* smart to have left themselves open to being caught. The arguing that they didn't do it is just ridiculous and delusional. Should close the thread here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 All that bullsh*t bouncing and rubbing goes in during the week. No way would they wait till a few minutes before hand to do the ball prep Look, I have no idea of how effective something like that would be. But that is what BB said occured. I just did not want to leave a step that was taken out of the equation. All that manipulating is what Bill Nye said would have no effect on the ball PSI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I agree. I think the guy who brought the balls into the restroom to deflate them simply missed 1 ball, So that 1 ball only suffered, at most, 1 psi natural deflation. The other 11 balls got an additional 1 psi manual deflation, giving 2 psi total deflation per ball.. sounds reasonable. I wonder how much of what has leaked is true tho. I guess we''l find out in 2 months, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 there are 100 something balls being prepped for today. I wonder if they will check them ? leave it to tom brady to make superstars out of 100 balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I don't see how this would jive with the pats balls being 2 psi low. Wouldn't the pats balls have to be less than 1 psi low if the Colts balls were at max 1 psi low? It can be attributed to the different air temp at inflation. If you inflate in an environment at 50 degrees and the game is played at 50 degrees there is no PSI change, except for the effect of evaporative cooling from the balls being wet but that effects both teams balls the same. And a smaller effect associated with the leather getting wet and expanding slightly lessing the PSI and again, this effect would be the similar for both teams. I just find it ridiculous to think that a ball boy would deflate 12 balls in a 90 second bathroom break. If the patriots wanted a deflated ball at game time all they would have had to do is inflate the ball with air that was about 45 degrees hotter than the game time temp, and adjust it less if it was going to rain. They could have easily gotten the ball to within 1/2 lb of psi of their optimum determined temp. Leave it to science and not a ball boy that may take too little of too much air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Absolutely none of the phisics matters, none at all. It doesn't matter at all where the psi's were for both teams balls to start, totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter at all how the psi dropped by natural conditions, none at all. The balls are legal or they are not legal, if the pats inflated thier balls just above the minimum to pass and they dropped tough luck, they are no longer legal. They were legal or they were not legal. The Pats were using illegal footballs thus they need to be held accountable. Dig deeper and if they find they actually did deflate or cause them to deflate by any means the punsihment is magnified. There should be no scenario in which they are 'free and clear'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Nobody hired Headsmart to do anything. They volunteered. As a proud Irish American, my chances of trusting a "study" supposedly exonerating the Patriots done by a guy named Healy from Boston is exactly zero. First, the company is located in Pittsburg and are affiliated with Carnegie Mellon. And he is from Easton, Pa. And somehow you have him being a Patriot fan! And why would they tarnish their professional reputation for football helmet safety by publishing bad science. This isn't art or politics or opinion, it is science, everything that they publish will be questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Absolutely none of the phisics matters, none at all. It doesn't matter at all where the psi's were for both teams balls to start, totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter at all how the psi dropped by natural conditions, none at all. The balls are legal or they are not legal, if the pats inflated thier balls just above the minimum to pass and they dropped tough luck, they are no longer legal. They were legal or they were not legal. The Pats were using illegal footballs thus they need to be held accountable. Dig deeper and if they find they actually did deflate or cause them to deflate by any means the punsihment is magnified. There should be no scenario in which they are 'free and clear'. There is no rule about playing with a under inlfated ball. The rule is that the Refs need to insure that 15 min prior to the game 12 balls on each team must be from 12.5-13.5 in pressure. Both teams can not do anything to those balls once the refs validated the balls. Don't you understand that every game that has been played in the nfl In freezing weather has balls that are under the 12.5. In order for this not to occur in the future the refs themselves will have to fill the balls outside in the stadium and if it is raining or showing in those wet conditions. if the temp between the start of the game and the start of the 3rd quarter has a temp difference of more than 10 degrees or if it started to rain during the first 1/2 the balls will have to be reinflated or if You live in Miami and it is 15 degrees warmer at 2:30 than it was at 1:00 deflate the balls to the required PSI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indygirl4jets Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Well you can check the video, it is online, the bag is open and the kid throws the ball in and gets another. it is simple, if the colts filled their balls up outside on the field, or in the equipment room or in a passageway, there would be no or very little temp variation between the outside atmospheric conditions or if they used an aircompressor that had a reservoir (gasses under under pressure gets colder) the air inside the ball is already then at 50 degrees so there would be no pressure drop as the temp of the air remains constant. The difference is that the Pats said in BBs presser that the balls for that game were filled in the heated lockerroom (how well heated is a debate is a bone of contention between me an my fellow citizen of RI) to be 12.5 psi and then were bounced, squeezed, rubbed to get the surface condition the way Brady likes it. They were then immediately directly taken to the refs for inspection around two hours before game time. The temp dif between the lockerroom and the officials office I would say is slight maybe 7 degrees. if the official checked the balls with 1 hour of inflation, the pressure drop due to the 7 degree delta in ambient would be minimal, maybe You dont know where the Colts filled the balls at. Your team cheated, nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Well you can check the video, it is online, the bag is open and the kid throws the ball in and gets another. it is simple, if the colts filled their balls up outside on the field, or in the equipment room or in a passageway, there would be no or very little temp variation between the outside atmospheric conditions or if they used an aircompressor that had a reservoir (gasses under under pressure gets colder) the air inside the ball is already then at 50 degrees so there would be no pressure drop as the temp of the air remains constant. The difference is that the Pats said in BBs presser that the balls for that game were filled in the heated lockerroom (how well heated is a debate is a bone of contention between me an my fellow citizen of RI) to be 12.5 psi and then were bounced, squeezed, rubbed to get the surface condition the way Brady likes it. They were then immediately directly taken to the refs for inspection around two hours before game time. The temp dif between the lockerroom and the officials office I would say is slight maybe 7 degrees. if the official checked the balls with 1 hour of inflation, the pressure drop due to the 7 degree delta in ambient would be minimal, maybe .1 lb No. Stop. Your too dumb to attempt this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Kraft found himself a fall guy and will expecting a f-ing apology from his pal Roger Goodell. It was the assistant to the under assistant equipment manager that did the deed. In the bathroom no less. I guess Tommy Boy likes to lick the spooge off the ball because it makes it too sticky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Well you can check the video, it is online, the bag is open and the kid throws the ball in and gets another. it is simple, if the colts filled their balls up outside on the field, or in the equipment room or in a passageway, there would be no or very little temp variation between the outside atmospheric conditions or if they used an aircompressor that had a reservoir (gasses under under pressure gets colder) the air inside the ball is already then at 50 degrees so there would be no pressure drop as the temp of the air remains constant. The difference is that the Pats said in BBs presser that the balls for that game were filled in the heated lockerroom (how well heated is a debate is a bone of contention between me an my fellow citizen of RI) to be 12.5 psi and then were bounced, squeezed, rubbed to get the surface condition the way Brady likes it. They were then immediately directly taken to the refs for inspection around two hours before game time. The temp dif between the lockerroom and the officials office I would say is slight maybe 7 degrees. if the official checked the balls with 1 hour of inflation, the pressure drop due to the 7 degree delta in ambient would be minimal, maybe .1 lb The fact is, in order to get a 2 psi drop due to temperature change requires the balls to start at 90+ degrees. No amount of (legal) ball prep does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Look, I have no idea of how effective something like that would be. But that is what BB said occured. I just did not want to leave a step that was taken out of the equation. All that manipulating is what Bill Nye said would have no effect on the ball PSI Right, This is yet another shortcoming of the headsmart testing. No ball prep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 It can be attributed to the different air temp at inflation. If you inflate in an environment at 50 degrees and the game is played at 50 degrees there is no PSI change, except for the effect of evaporative cooling from the balls being wet but that effects both teams balls the same. And a smaller effect associated with the leather getting wet and expanding slightly lessing the PSI and again, this effect would be the similar for both teams. I just find it ridiculous to think that a ball boy would deflate 12 balls in a 90 second bathroom break. If the patriots wanted a deflated ball at game time all they would have had to do is inflate the ball with air that was about 45 degrees hotter than the game time temp, and adjust it less if it was going to rain. They could have easily gotten the ball to within 1/2 lb of psi of their optimum determined temp. Leave it to science and not a ball boy that may take too little of too much air. A test was done by a reporter at the NY Daily News who deflated 12 balls by 2 psi each in 40 seconds. If the guy who did it for the Pats is the same guy who has been deflating balls for them since 2007, when their fumble rate reduced in a spiked change and has remained at that impossibly better level than all other NFL teams since, he probably could have done the job even faster. Of course, 2007 is also the year the ball handling rule changed allowing teams to handle balls before games. This improvement in fumble rate is an important component of concluding the Pats deflate balls, at least to my mind, Belichick thinks fast when there is a rules change that allows him to cheat without detection. Well, at least it wasn't detected until the AFCCG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 A test was done by a reporter at the NY Daily News who deflated 12 balls by 2 psi each in 40 seconds. If the guy who did it for the Pats is the same guy who has been deflating balls for them since 2007, when their fumble rate reduced in a spiked change and has remained at that impossibly better level than all other NFL teams since, he probably could have done the job even faster. Of course, 2007 is also the year the ball handling rule changed allowing teams to handle balls before games. This improvement in fumble rate is an important component of concluding the Pats deflate balls, at least to my mind, Belichick thinks fast when there is a rules change that allows him to cheat without detection. Well, at least it wasn't detected until the AFCCG. a reporter also did the experiment did it in 77 seconds, obviously if you have done every weekend for past 7 yrs, you could get the time down to 30 seconds and then take a dump and wash hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsMetsRangers Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Amazing that Belichick nor Brady had NO explanation how the balls were deflated in their first press conference both looking like Deer in headlights, Belichick said he never knew anything about psi or any other thing about the footballs and he never handled them......His next press conference he is a deflated football Wizard and claims they delivered under inflated balls to the ref or maybe it was the air temperature or maybe an act of God.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Amazing that Belichick nor Brady had NO explanation how the balls were deflated in their first press conference both looking like Deer in headlights, Belichick said he never knew anything about psi or any other thing about the footballs and he never handled them......His next press conference he is a deflated football Wizard and claims they delivered under inflated balls to the ref or maybe it was the air temperature or maybe an act of God.... It's a garbage explanation and they got some Patriots fan who happens to work at MIT to try to support. The holes in it are ridiculous, why didn't the same natural phenomena occur with the Colts' balls too? How did this occur two weeks in a row? I'm just glad I don't have to hear the media anymore suck the Patriots' c0cks about how disciplined they are they don't ever fumble the ball. It's that hard work and discipline y'know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 After just listening to Tom Terrific with Costas - he is the worst liar on the face of the earth. He must have never got in trouble as a kid - his lame attempt at weaseling is worse than a 4 year old. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanDoug Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 After just listening to Tom Terrific with Costas - he is the worst liar on the face of the earth. He must have never got in trouble as a kid - his lame attempt at weaseling is worse than a 4 year old. Amazing. I like what Collinsworth said right after. He's not buying Brady's lame responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 After just listening to Tom Terrific with Costas - he is the worst liar on the face of the earth. He must have never got in trouble as a kid - his lame attempt at weaseling is worse than a 4 year old. Amazing. Yes he lied again....unreal vagina boy He should be suspended for 2015 and his HOF induction should never occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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