Sammy Watkins: "Its a problem if we don't make the playoffs"

[Jet Nut]

That talent really didnt come about until the last few years. This offseason put them over the top though.

They havent had a Qb, which hurts. They are one of the few teams that suffer probably worse QB fate than the Jets (since Kelly at least). They started Fitzpatrick for like 4 or 5 years. That's all you need to know.

Oh its better. Not by a ton but its better. They're a better defense. Better DL, better LB'ers...secondary is about equal.

I think we've got them at the OL, that's about it. WR's are probably a wash. They've got better RB's. Both with pathetic QB's.

The gap isnt huge, but its there.

Meh the team over the last 4 years was not playoff caliber.

But you're correct. Their HC hasnt been very successful lately. Doesnt change the fact he's familiar with the division. It's an advantage, no matter how want to spin it. It may not mean anything in the long run...but he doesnt have the learning curve that a first time HC or a HC new to division would have.

And what is being familiar with the division worth? How hard is it to get familiar with teams? And what is it worth given the drastic changes teams make from year to year at times? Are the Jets anywhere near the team that they were when he Left? No.

Let's see Sporano comes from Dallas to the fins, doesn't know the division or conference and wins the division. Comes to the Jets after knowing the division and sucks as a OC. Wannstedt went from the NFCE to the fins and won the division in year one

Herm and Rex come to the Jets out of the division, make the playoffs in their first year.

Not seeing a pattern anywhere that says it's a help

[Klecko73isGod]

Why arent the Jets making the playoff this year? 

 

 

Lmfao - it's been used, CTM.

 

Isn't the Bills O-line pretty sh*tty too?

[Jet Nut]

Isn't the Bills O-line pretty sh*tty too?

Sh1ttier

[JiF]

And what is being familiar with the division worth? How hard is it to get familiar with teams? And what is it worth given the drastic changes teams make from year to year at times? Are the Jets anywhere near the team that they were when he Left? No.

Let's see Sporano comes from Dallas to the fins, doesn't know the division or conference and wins the division. Comes to the Jetts after knowing the division and sucks as a OC. Wannstedt went from the NFCE to the fins and won the division in year one

Herm and Rex come to the Jets out of the division, make the playoffs in their first year.

Not seeing a pattern anywhere that says it's a help

 

You're comparing OC's to HC's?  Apples to Oranges, no? 

 

There isnt much of a pattern to go off.  You dont see HC's stay within the division very often, I cant think of it ever really happening to be honest.  But whatevs, no big deal if you dont think having familiarity with the division helps in preparation.  I do.

[JiF]

 

Oh its better.  Not by a ton but its better.  They're a better defense.  Better DL, better LB'ers...secondary is about equal.  

 

I think we've got them at the OL, that's about it.  WR's are probably a wash.  They've got better RB's.  Both with pathetic QB's.

 

The gap isnt huge, but its there.

 

 

 

Isn't the Bills O-line pretty sh*tty too?

 

idk is it? 

[Bruce Harper]

The Bills won't be making the playoffs, but independent of the poor offensive coaching, I suspect Watkins is in for a big year.  He got ignored in a big way last year while other rookie WR's were putting up huge numbers.  But that by no measure means he takes a back seat to guys like Jarvis Landry when it comes to ability.  It's just a damn shame he'll probably be catching passes from 4 different sh*tty QB's this year.

 

That's okay with me.  The sh*ttier the better.

[Villain The Foe]

Seems legit

lol you beat me to it! 

[southparkcpa]

Not with all the players they lost this past year.. The defenses of the Jets,Bills and Fins may have Brady thinking of retiring..

and BB will resign on a napkin.

[Jetsfan80]

Oh its better.  Not by a ton but its better.  They're a better defense.  Better DL, better LB'ers...secondary is about equal.  

 

I think we've got them at the OL, that's about it.  WR's are probably a wash.  They've got better RB's.  Both with pathetic QB's.

 

1.  So we're just going to allow you to get away with saying "Better DL?"  Maybe for the games when Richardson is out, but otherwise, it's no better than "equal" to us.  Especially since they're forcing Mario Williams and Jerry Hughes into Rex's mostly 3-4 scheme and Marcell Dareus will be more of a NT.  Yes, Rex's scheme is complex and he's awesome working with the DL, we get it.  But they can do no better under Rex's scheme than they did under Jim Schwartz. 

 

2.  Better LB's?  After trading away Kiko?  Rex is going to be forced to move Nigel Bradham inside after the dude had a killer year on the outside.  The rest of the crew (Preston Brown, Randell Johnson, etc.), are they anything special?  Our LB corps isn't either, but again, can't just throw that out there and assume it's true. 

 

3.  Secondary "about equal"?  Leodis McKelvin's starting job isn't even 100 % secure over rookie Ronald Darby this year.  I know you're down on Cromartie, but if Milliner or McDougle play up to potential, that's a top 5 secondary.  Revis >>>> Stephon Gilmore as a # 1 CB.  True, if Pryor is a bust, you could possibly make a case for the Bills being "about equal".  Until then no way.

 

4.  The Bills O-line is laughably bad, and they have a high implosion factor with Incognito involved.  Even if he's the good soldier in the lockerroom this year, he's good for at least a half dozen boneheaded penalties this year that helps cost them games.  He's Buffalo's Willie Colon, but even worse.  Meanwhile, we're running a zone blocking scheme that fits our line perfectly.  Breno and Carpenter come from Seattle, a zone blocking system, and whoever comes out of the pool of talented RG's we have will be a nice upgrade.  In short, we're a middle of the pack OL with top 10-12 potential.  Bills are almost guaranteed to be a bottom of the pack OL.  That's a massive difference that can't be ignored.  Shady should have tons of fun getting first contact with defenders 2 yards earlier than he was used to in Philly.

[The Crusher]

Sure.  I'm not saying they're going to the playoffs or anything but if you compared their roster to the rest of the NFL, the only place they'd lose is QB.  Every other position group, they'd either win or be damn close to equal.  Reality is, it doesnt matter how talented they are because they dont have a QB.  

 

Even still, none of these conversation's matter because the Patriots will still go 12-4 and win the SB.  

Yep.    Every year until they don't.  Thinking anything else is silly.

[dbatesman]

Wow, 80 vs. JiF. I feel like I just pulled a chair up to the Algonquin Roundtable

[Klecko73isGod]

Wow, 80 vs. JiF. I feel like I just pulled a chair up to the Algonquin Roundtable

 

I'm detecting your sarcasm....

[Jet Nut]

You're comparing OC's to HC's?  Apples to Oranges, no? 

 

There isnt much of a pattern to go off.  You dont see HC's stay within the division very often, I cant think of it ever really happening to be honest.  But whatevs, no big deal if you dont think having familiarity with the division helps in preparation.  I do.

I get it but don't see the advantage. There isn't anything that lots of video and talking to people won't give you about some players. What will Rex have on the Jets? A new roster and new coaching staff. I hope he thinks he knows us.

[rex-n-effect]

It's amazing what the national press will buy into and re report after reading the homer regional medias coverage of these teams. As opposed to the constant criticism and complaining that the local NY press heaps on the Jets.

 

I think some of that has to do with the NFL trying to keep interest afloat in its less popular markets where people may not be quite so loyal.

[Beerfish]

The Bills have most of the same coaches as the Jets had last year.  MASSIVE plus to the Jets on that one.  We talk a lot about the Rex factor but his assistants are bloody horrible almost to  a man.

[JiF]

1.  So we're just going to allow you to get away with saying "Better DL?"  Maybe for the games when Richardson is out, but otherwise, it's no better than "equal" to us.  Especially since they're forcing Mario Williams and Jerry Hughes into Rex's mostly 3-4 scheme and Marcell Dareus will be more of a NT.  Yes, Rex's scheme is complex and he's awesome working with the DL, we get it.  But they can do no better under Rex's scheme than they did under Jim Schwartz. 

 

2.  Better LB's?  After trading away Kiko?  Rex is going to be forced to move Nigel Bradham inside after the dude had a killer year on the outside.  The rest of the crew (Preston Brown, Randell Johnson, etc.), are they anything special?  Our LB corps isn't either, but again, can't just throw that out there and assume it's true. 

 

3.  Secondary "about equal"?  Leodis McKelvin's starting job isn't even 100 % secure over rookie Ronald Darby this year.  I know you're down on Cromartie, but if Milliner or McDougle play up to potential, that's a top 5 secondary.  Revis >>>> Stephon Gilmore as a # 1 CB.  True, if Pryor is a bust, you could possibly make a case for the Bills being "about equal".  Until then no way.

 

4.  The Bills O-line is laughably bad, and they have a high implosion factor with Incognito involved.  Even if he's the good soldier in the lockerroom this year, he's good for at least a half dozen boneheaded penalties this year that helps cost them games.  He's Buffalo's Willie Colon, but even worse.  Meanwhile, we're running a zone blocking scheme that fits our line perfectly.  Breno and Carpenter come from Seattle, a zone blocking system, and whoever comes out of the pool of talented RG's we have will be a nice upgrade.  In short, we're a middle of the pack OL with top 10-12 potential.  Bills are almost guaranteed to be a bottom of the pack OL.  That's a massive difference that can't be ignored.  Shady should have tons of fun getting first contact with defenders 2 yards earlier than he was used to in Philly.

 

1.  Shut up you homer, only a Jets fan thinks they have a better DL than the Bills.  This isnt even an argument.  It's that stupid. 

 

2.  Shut up you homer, only a Jets fan thinks the have a better LB core than the Bills.   This isnt even argument.  It's that stupid.

 

3.  The Jets have the advantage at CB1, but from there, it's the Bills because of the safeties and depth.  Jets have Revis and a bunch of What if's.

 

4.  I said the Jets have a better OL.  You should pay attention. 

[JiF]

I get it but don't see the advantage. There isn't anything that lots of video and talking to people won't give you about some players. What will Rex have on the Jets? A new roster and new coaching staff. I hope he thinks he knows us.

 

I'd say that Rex knows the Jets pretty well considering outside of a handful of players and some draft picks, he's coached every player on the team. And it's not like he is totally unfamiliar with the coaching staff; he faced Bowles in Miami and in Arizona and he's very familiar with Gailey since he faced him in Buffalo while Gailey was Head Coach.

[predator_05]

They're the most talented roster in the NFL outside the QB.  Rex has shown he can over come that but the division is going to be mighty tough sledding with out a QB.  They're basically the Jets but more talented with a Head Coach who has a ton of experience in the conference.

 

You think so?

 

Their offense looks pretty middle of the road to me. McCoy is a player in decline and his OL won't be giving him the kind of the space that the excellent blockers in Philly did.

 

Harvin and Watkins are good but who is the throwing the ball to them? A WR is only as good as his QB allows him to be. Tyrod Taylor is not a starting calibre NFL QB. When you look at the garbage they have at QB, Rex actually had it good with Sanchez during his time here.

 

The good thing for them is that their defense is incredible. About 4-5 guys on the DL that can push for double digit sacks. Good secondary too, led by a great cover corner in Gilmore. Strong linebackers in Bradham and Brown, although they might be a little vulnerable against the run.

 

They will play a lot of low scoring games and win by attrition. Not sure if it's enough to make playoffs though, especially if you look at the 2nd half of their schedule, when they have a lot of difficult road trips

[JiF]

Wow, 80 vs. JiF. I feel like I just pulled a chair up to the Algonquin Roundtable

 

You think I'm worthy of a roundtable meeting? 

 

Better not let Tom see this.

[predator_05]

I can see why Bills fans would be happy though.

 

They haven't had a reason to get 'excited' about their team in a long, long time. They are lapping this up.

 

They will probably be more forgiving on Rex if he fails, small market team doesn't really crucify its players like we would here

 

They will crush the Patriots in week 2, i don't think Garoppolo is ready for a game against that Dline. That will win the hearts of all the Bills fans and keep Rex in the job for the next 3 years

[JiF]

You think so?

 

Their offense looks pretty middle of the road to me. McCoy is a player in decline and his OL won't be giving him the kind of the space that the excellent blockers in Philly did.

 

Harvin and Watkins are good but who is the throwing the ball to them? A WR is only as good as his QB allows him to be. Tyrod Taylor is not a starting calibre NFL QB. When you look at the garbage they have at QB, Rex actually had it good with Sanchez during his time here.

 

The good thing for them is that their defense is incredible. About 4-5 guys on the DL that can push for double digit sacks. Good secondary too, led by a great cover corner in Gilmore. Strong linebackers in Bradham and Brown, although they might be a little vulnerable against the run.

 

They will play a lot of low scoring games and win by attrition. Not sure if it's enough to make playoffs though, especially if you look at the 2nd half of their schedule, when they have a lot of difficult road trips

 

You're doing the whole....this impacts that, that impacts this...which I get.  But if you just compared talent at the position to other teams around the league, yeah, I think Buffalo has the most talented roster in the league.

 

I'm not alone here:

 

This article has them 5th: http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/5-most-talented-rosters-in-the-nfl-heading-into-the-2015-season.html/?a=viewall

 

#2: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000493967/article/seahawks-jets-and-eagles-among-nfls-most-talented-teams

 

Yep: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2410486-2015-playoff-sleeper-buffalo-bills-may-have-most-talented-roster-in-nfl

 

Chris Simms lol: http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2015/03/31/simms-most-talented-roster-in-the-nfl/

 

There are more...but I think you get the picture.  I'm not alone here.  They're stacked!

 

Good thing is, so are the Jets.  Bad thing is, so are the Dolphags.  Worse thing is, none of it matters because the Pats are going 12-4 and winning the Super Bowl, again.

[predator_05]

You're doing the whole....this impacts that, that impacts this...which I get.  But if you just compared talent at the position to other teams around the league, yeah, I think Buffalo has the most talented roster in the league.

 

I'm not alone here:

 

This article has them 5th: http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/5-most-talented-rosters-in-the-nfl-heading-into-the-2015-season.html/?a=viewall

 

#2: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000493967/article/seahawks-jets-and-eagles-among-nfls-most-talented-teams

 

Yep: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2410486-2015-playoff-sleeper-buffalo-bills-may-have-most-talented-roster-in-nfl

 

Chris Simms lol: http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2015/03/31/simms-most-talented-roster-in-the-nfl/

 

There are more...but I think you get the picture.  I'm not alone here.  They're stacked!

 

Good thing is, so are the Jets.  Bad thing is, so are the Dolphags.  Worse thing is, none of it matters because the Pats are going 12-4 and winning the Super Bowl, again.

 

pats won't go 12-4.

 

11-5 tops. all 3 teams in the division are better than they were last year.

[JiF]

pats won't go 12-4.

 

11-5 tops. all 3 teams in the division are better than they were last year.

 

A whole one game worse!?!?!?!?!  

 

The AFCE is considerably better but only 1 team besides the Pats have at the very least, average QB play.  Ultimately, Brady and cheating trump the fact the division is more talented at every position other than the one that matters most.  

[predator_05]

A whole one game worse!?!?!?!?!  

 

The AFCE is considerably better but only 1 team besides the Pats have at the very least, average QB play.  Ultimately, Brady and cheating trump the fact the division is more talented at every position other than the one that matters most.  

 

well its the difference between securing home field and playing an extra playoff game.

 

yeah, i'm saying it more outta hope than expectation.

 

i think they drop 2 divisional games and lose 3 of 4 to Pittsburgh/Denver/NYG/Philly.

[Klecko73isGod]

1.  Shut up you homer, only a Jets fan thinks they have a better DL than the Bills.  This isnt even an argument.  It's that stupid. 

 

It's not?

 

Didn't the Jets have the #2 and #3 graded 3-4 DEs last year according to PFF? 

 

FO had the Bills ranked 1st and the Jets 4th last year. 

 

Ourlads, going into 2015, has Sheldon Richardson ranked as the 3rd best 3-4 DE with Kyle Williams ranked 4th and Mo Wilkerson ranked 6th with Alan Branch at 19. At DT, they have Marcel Dareous ranked 4th with Damon Harrison ranked 14th. 

 

Seems to me that one can make the argument that the Jets are better, especially since the addition of Leonard Williams gives the Jets significantly better depth and versatility. 

[JiF]

It's not?

 

Didn't the Jets have the #2 and #3 graded 3-4 DEs last year according to PFF? 

 

FO had the Bills ranked 1st and the Jets 4th last year. 

 

Ourlads, going into 2015, has Sheldon Richardson ranked as the 3rd best 3-4 DE with Kyle Williams ranked 4th and Mo Wilkerson ranked 6th with Alan Branch at 19. At DT, they have Marcel Dareous ranked 4th with Damon Harrison ranked 14th. 

 

Seems to me that one can make the argument that the Jets are better, especially since the addition of Leonard Williams gives the Jets significantly better depth and versatility. 

 

You can argue all you want but you'd be wrong.  

[CTM]

I'm detecting your sarcasm....

 

 

just foreplay, so one of the other twats can come by and get him off with sweet sweet rep

[Jetsfan80]

You can argue all you want but you'd be wrong.  

 

So what will Rex's excuse be when the D fails to be a top 5 unit like it was under Schwartz?

[JiF]

So what will Rex's excuse be when the D fails to be a top 5 unit like it was under Schwartz?

 

I dont think he'll have to worry about that but how the **** should I know and why would I care?  

[Klecko73isGod]

You're doing the whole....this impacts that, that impacts this...which I get.  But if you just compared talent at the position to other teams around the league, yeah, I think Buffalo has the most talented roster in the league.

 

I'm not alone here:

 

This article has them 5th: http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/5-most-talented-rosters-in-the-nfl-heading-into-the-2015-season.html/?a=viewall

 

#2: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000493967/article/seahawks-jets-and-eagles-among-nfls-most-talented-teams

 

Yep: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2410486-2015-playoff-sleeper-buffalo-bills-may-have-most-talented-roster-in-nfl

 

Chris Simms lol: http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2015/03/31/simms-most-talented-roster-in-the-nfl/

 

There are more...but I think you get the picture.  I'm not alone here.  They're stacked!

 

Good thing is, so are the Jets.  Bad thing is, so are the Dolphags.  Worse thing is, none of it matters because the Pats are going 12-4 and winning the Super Bowl, again.

 

Except you are alone. Cheatsheet has them 5th, NFL.com has them 2nd. 

 

You're bragging about Bleacher Report and Chris Simms agreeing with you?

 

I'd like to see a year by year list of the roster that most "experts" considered to be the best in the league every August going back 30 years. I'm willing to bet less than half of those teams made the playoffs. 

 

I remember Dr. Z doing a list like this in SI every summer. For about 5 years in a row in the mid-80s he ranked the Jets as the team with the best roster in the NFL. They made the postseason twice. 

 

It's great to say a team has the most talented roster in August. No one is going to call you on it when that team sh*ts the bed and doesn't live up to expectations. 

[JiF]

Except you are alone. Cheatsheet has them 5th, NFL.com has them 2nd. 

 

You're bragging about Bleacher Report and Chris Simms agreeing with you?

 

I'd like to see a year by year list of the roster that most "experts" considered to be the best in the league every August going back 30 years. I'm willing to bet less than half of those teams made the playoffs. 

 

I remember Dr. Z doing a list like this in SI every summer. For about 5 years in a row in the mid-80s he ranked the Jets as the team with the best roster in the NFL. They made the postseason twice. 

 

It's great to say a team has the most talented roster in August. No one is going to call you on it when that team sh*ts the bed and doesn't live up to expectations. 

 

I chose those examples to show that I wasnt talking out of my ass, not as the end all be all.  I put a "lol" next to the Simms article.  

 

Bottom line is, they're loaded and most everyone agrees.  The thing those articles didnt do that I'm doing right now, is remove the QB. Obviously, their lack of QB tilts the scale in favor of the team with a QB.  But if you removed the QB and did the comparison, its the Bills that would be at the top of the list.  Jets would be there too FWIW. Factor in QB, neither are (even though all those articles seem to think the Bills still are up there).

[Mogglez]

I'd say that Rex knows the Jets pretty well considering outside of a handful of players and some draft picks, he's coached every player on the team. And it's not like he is totally unfamiliar with the coaching staff; he faced Bowles in Miami and in Arizona and he's very familiar with Gailey since he faced him in Buffalo while Gailey was Head Coach.

Bowles wasn't with Arizona in 2012. The only time Rex really dealt with Bowles (head to head) was in 2011 when he took over as Miami's head coach and embarrassed us the last week of the season.

[Klecko73isGod]

I chose those examples to show that I wasnt talking out of my ass, not as the end all be all.  I put a "lol" next to the Simms article.  

 

Bottom line is, they're loaded and most everyone agrees.  The thing those articles didnt do that I'm doing right now, is remove the QB. Obviously, their lack of QB tilts the scale in favor of the team with a QB.  But if you removed the QB and did the comparison, its the Bills that would be at the top of the list.  Jets would be there too FWIW. Factor in QB, neither are (even though all those articles seem to think the Bills still are up there).

 

So take away the single most important position and the Bills are the most-super-awesome-holy-crap-I-can't-believe-how-spectacular-this-team-is team of 2015. 

 

Whoop de frickin' doo!

[JiF]

Bowles wasn't with Arizona in 2012. The only time Rex really dealt with Bowles (head to head) was in 2011 when he took over as Miami's head coach and embarrassed us the last week of the season.

 

yep....good catch....thought we played them in 2013.  Either way, I still think it has its advantages. 

 

So take away the single most important position and the Bills are the most-super-awesome-holy-crap-I-can't-believe-how-spectacular-this-team-is team of 2015. 

 

Whoop de frickin' doo!

 

This was my game.  I made the rules and my rules excluded the QB.  

 

FWIW you big meanie, I was trying to make the rules up so the Jets could play too!!!!

[Jetsfan80]

I dont think he'll have to worry about that but how the **** should I know and why would I care?  

 

1.  Rex is your boy.

2.  You're the one calling the Bills the most talented roster when factoring in 21 of the 22 spots on the field, and calling me a homer for disagreeing when I say things like "The DL's are equal" and pointing out how you're blatantly ignoring just how bad the OL is.