Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED

[Mike135]

17 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

First of all not his only offer. And smart people don't always jump at the first offer or agree to a bad deal.

Jump at the first offer?  Really?

Not signing a contract the first day or even week of free agency MIGHT be considered prudent in some situations.

But waiting 'til the end of July?  C'mon man.

[Larz]

if the mo's deal was a hint of maccs style, he seems to favor the last second swoop and sweeten approach, lol

there is no hard and fast deadline here, but maybe something gets done 3 days before the 1st PS game

my prediction is officially a deal gets done August 8th

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Jump at the first offer?  Really?

Not signing a contract the first day or even week of free agency MIGHT be considered prudent in some situations.

But waiting 'til the end of July?  C'mon man.

He had that exact same offer six months ago. In negotiations you go back and forth, not just stay with one offer. It's not supposed to be MMA the way some of you guys look at it. If the guy is willing to take a one year contract why not give it to him. What's the hold up on that. It's do-able. 

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He had that exact same offer six months ago. In negotiations you go back and forth, not just stay with one offer. It's not supposed to be MMA the way some of you guys look at it. If the guy is willing to take a one year contract why not give it to him. What's the hold up on that. It's do-able. 

Right, but this is not a negotiation.  Fitz has no leverage.  Take it or leave it.

You don't give a one year deal to Fitz, because his value is not as a starter for one year.  It's as a backup for a few.

Of our potential 4 QBs, not one is a proven good starter.  But one is a proven good backup.  Fitz.  So his value lies in being a backup.

Even if he does take the 3 year 24mil deal and Geno still beats him out for the starting gig at some point this season, at least Macc has his veteran backup for a few years @8mil per.  If it's on a one year deal, Macc basically wasted 12mil for a one year backup.

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Right, but this is not a negotiation.  Fitz has no leverage.  Take it or leave it.

You don't give a one year deal to Fitz, because his value is not as a starter for one year.  It's as a backup for a few.

Of our potential 4 QBs, not one is a proven good starter.  But one is a proven good backup.  Fitz.  So his value lies in being a backup.

Even if he does take the 3 year 24mil deal and Geno still beats him out for the starting gig at some point this season, at least Macc has his veteran backup for a few years @8mil per.  If it's on a one year deal, Macc basically wasted 12mil for a one year backup.

It's not the way contracts are done in the NFL. Nobody signs a deal to be a starter and then agree to be the backup. And this is why he won't sign. If his value is only for 2016 then just give him that one year. Believe me they desperately do not want to start Geno Smith this coming season. 

[Mike135]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

 Believe me they desperately do not want to start Geno Smith this coming season. 

If that was true, Fitz would already be signed.  Would've happened months ago.

[ylekram]

1 hour ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

I am new to American football but I am trying to catch up and are watching as many games from 2015 as I can. I have to say, and take it easy, watching this Fitz-dude vs Eagles last year, I am not overly convinced of his greatness.

I don't think anyone in the world would put the words  "Fitzpatrick" and " greatness" in the same sentence. I think most would use the words adequate and/or average to describe Fitzpatrick. if you are trying to get a sense of what this Fitzpatrick vs geno debate is really about, I am afraid you would have to go back and watch the 2013 and 2014 years, as well. then and only then would you be armed with the information you need to come to your own conclusions. its never been an argument between good and great or bad and great. the argument has always been between horrible and adequate. I would prefer great, but I would take adequate over horrible

[ljr]

18 hours ago, cant wait said:

something like "I don't want to retire (but I will unless I get my number)" I'm not saying he will retire, but he may decide another year isn't worth it if he's not happy with the offer. It's a very personal decision, especially for a smart guy in good health with 5 kids at home. its called FU money for a reason and I'm sure he's got enough in the bank to live on if he decides to move on

The only prob is this 

he did said - I don't want to retire

he did not say - but I will unless I get my number

[ylekram]

3 minutes ago, ljr said:

The only prob is this 

he did said - I don't want to retire

he did not say - but I will unless I get my number

actually, he never said he wasn't going to retire. his exact words were"i will be playing football this year"

[Rangers9]

7 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

If that was true, Fitz would already be signed.  Would've happened months ago.

If that wasn't true they don't name him the starting Qb (which you claim was stupid). And keep the job open for him. Even in July. And that's the biggest leverage Fitz has. His leverage should be he had a good year and knows how to operate the offense successfully. Has a lot of starting experience.  And is a team leader. And like Bowles said last season. Sometimes it takes a while for a player to find the right place. It was a great comment and true not just for football players but for everyone. 

[ylekram]

10 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

If that was true, Fitz would already be signed.  Would've happened months ago.

and if it wasn't true, the offer would never had been made in the 1st place or, at the very least, the offer still wouldn't be on the table on the eve of training camp

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, ylekram said:

I don't think anyone in the world would put the words  "Fitzpatrick" and " greatness" in the same sentence. I think most would use the words adequate and/or average to describe Fitzpatrick. if you are trying to get a sense of what this Fitzpatrick vs geno debate is really about, I am afraid you would have to go back and watch the 2013 and 2014 years, as well. then and only then would you be armed with the information you need to come to your own conclusions. its never been an argument between good and great or bad and great. the argument has always been between horrible and adequate. I would prefer great, but I would take adequate over horrible

This.

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

If that wasn't true they don't name him the starting Qb (which you claim was stupid). And keep the job open for him. Even in July. And that's the biggest leverage Fitz has. His leverage should be he had a good year and knows how to operate the offense successfully. Has a lot of starting experience.  And is a team leader. And like Bowles said last season. Sometimes it takes a while for a player to find the right place. It was a great comment and true not just for football players but for everyone. 

 

2 minutes ago, ylekram said:

and if it wasn't true, the offer would never had been made in the 1st place or, at the very least, the offer still wouldn't be on the table on the eve of training camp

2/3s of the offer is as a backup.  If they wanted him as a starter, the offer would be different.

[cant wait]

3 minutes ago, ljr said:

The only prob is this 

he did said - I don't want to retire

he did not say - but I will unless I get my number

He was also being grilled about the schefter report, it seemed like he was trying to backtrack a little but it's all just speculation so who knows. I'm just saying it makes more sense to me than the current contract stare down, you think it would be in the best interest of both parties to lock this thing up quickly

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

 

2/3s of the offer is as a backup.  If they wanted him as a starter, the offer would be different.

And that's why no deal. 

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

2/3s of the offer is as a backup.  If they wanted him as a starter, the offer would be different.

Interestingly, the only 1/3 as Starter is the 1/3 where Geno Smith might still be on the Jets roster.

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

I am new to American football but I am trying to catch up and are watching as many games from 2015 as I can. I have to say, and take it easy, watching this Fitz-dude vs Eagles last year, I am not overly convinced of his greatness.

[bassmaster2]

He wants too much money ,the Jet offer is fair and Fitz has no other team in play

 

 

[ylekram]

15 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

 

2/3s of the offer is as a backup.  If they wanted him as a starter, the offer would be different.

but 1/3 isn't. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out they want him as a starter for 2016

[Rangers9]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Interestingly, the only 1/3 as Starter is the 1/3 where Geno Smith might still be on the Jets roster.

Actually 1/2 of the money is to start and 1/2 is to be a backup. Of course if Hack can't hack it he's the starter. And for backup money. 

[fltflo]

I think the Jets have made it very clear. They do not want to start Geno Smith. There is no Qb competition. 

They have made it so clear that they have basically cut ties with the backup QB that many of you feel should just be handed the job.

They have so little confidence in Geno that they won't pay a guy who was playing on a 3 million dollar contract last season.

They despise Geno so much they didn't allow him near the starters all thru the offseason program.

You folks need to open your eyes. Yes, they may want Fitz back, but some people in charge must feel confident enough in Geno to not throw big bucks as a short term solution.

[drdetroit]

47 minutes ago, bassmaster2 said:

He wants too much money ,the Jet offer is fair and Fitz has no other team in play

 

 

This

 

We've been offering 2 years with $15 mil guaranteed.

[Rangers9]

10 minutes ago, fltflo said:

They have made it so clear that they have basically cut ties with the backup QB that many of you feel should just be handed the job.

They have so little confidence in Geno that they won't pay a guy who was playing on a 3 million dollar contract last season.

They despise Geno so much they didn't allow him near the starters all thru the offseason program.

You folks need to open your eyes. Yes, they may want Fitz back, but some people in charge must feel confident enough in Geno to not throw big bucks as a short term solution.

If they want Fitz back how does this show confidence in Geno. They obviously don't. Hopefully Woody will come to his senses. 

[Villain The Foe]

12 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

If they want Fitz back how does this show confidence in Geno. They obviously don't. Hopefully Woody will come to his senses. 

You make it seem so extreme. Black or white, yes or no, confidence, no confidence. 

You state that becasue they want Fitz back they "obviously dont" have confidence in Geno. The problem with that is they're not willing to pay Fitz what he wants, meaning that they're willing to move forward with Geno instead of overpaying for a guy that they may prefer. 

Comments like this is what I dont understand. How do you type that and at the same time not even see the problem with what you typed? Based on your statement and what the front office has done to this point, it literally shows that the FO OBVIOUSLY has enough confidence in Geno NOT to overpay for Fitzpatrick to the point where the Jets didnt even budge when the Broncos and Browns sniffed around. 

Your "all or nothing" extremes arent tricking anyone when all you have to do is look at the fact that Fitzpatrick isnt even a Jet. 

[Jet Blast]

1 hour ago, ylekram said:

I don't think anyone in the world would put the words  "Fitzpatrick" and " greatness" in the same sentence. I think most would use the words adequate and/or average to describe Fitzpatrick. if you are trying to get a sense of what this Fitzpatrick vs geno debate is really about, I am afraid you would have to go back and watch the 2013 and 2014 years, as well. then and only then would you be armed with the information you need to come to your own conclusions. its never been an argument between good and great or bad and great. the argument has always been between horrible and adequate. I would prefer great, but I would take adequate over horrible

Right on. What's great about Fitz is his "averageness". The Jets have long suffered with below average QB play. It was refreshing and a VAST improvement to have just average QB play last year. We are so used to bad QB play that when the average guy stepped in it was like we had died and went to heaven. It's all relative.

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

I am new to American football but I am trying to catch up and are watching as many games from 2015 as I can. I have to say, and take it easy, watching this Fitz-dude vs Eagles last year, I am not overly convinced of his greatness.

Soon you'll realize that the Fitz support has nothing to do with Fitz himself. 

[fltflo]

If they want Fitz back how does this show confidence in Geno. They obviously don't. Hopefully Woody will come to his senses. 

You have to admit at this point they clearly are comfortable going with Geno as the starter.

You don't let your team leader dangle in limbo unless your sure of what you have behind him. Keep in mind that Ryan has had no offseason conditioning and no chance to sync with his existing WR's as well as the new kids and his new back field.

Now with all the time away from the team and more importantly the offseason conditioning program the chance of injury rises substantially.

Factor in all the time that Geno has put in with the 1's thru the offseason program.

Which BTW has given both the FO and the CS and excellent opportunity to evaluate Geno's progress or lack there of, if that were the case.

I would have to think from just the above there is a fair amount of certainty that Geno can hold his own and at this time, and is better prepared to run the team then Fitzpatrick is

[bassmaster2]

1 hour ago, drdetroit said:

This

 

We've been offering 2 years with $15 mil guaranteed.

NO others team wants a weak arm QB

[Rangers9]

4 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Just pull the offer and go grab our veteran backup...

Michael Vick still hoping to play, if a contender calls him

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/07/22/michael-vick-still-hoping-to-play-if-a-contender-calls-him/

You really want him! He was here two years ago and didn't want to play, remember! (unbelievable). 

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You really want him! He was here two years ago and didn't want to play, remember! (unbelievable). 

Kinda goes along with the whole "Geno didn't get a fair chance... no weaponzzzz!" argument, don't ya think?

Even a guy who's proven to be at least a decent QB couldn't do well.  In fact, it was such a joke of a situation, he basically just accepted it.  Now of course you'd prefer a guy to claw and fight for everything...  but c'mon, let's be realistic.  A dude who was a superstar playing on what was basically a division 2 college offense?  The guy is gonna throw in the towel.

So yes, depending on other options, I'd be OK with Vick as the vet backup.

[ljr]

2 hours ago, ylekram said:

actually, he never said he wasn't going to retire. his exact words were"i will be playing football this year"

Cool!

even better than "wants to be playing"

 

"WILL BE PLAYING!"

 

as as far away from retirement as it is possible to be!

[Rangers9]

45 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Kinda goes along with the whole "Geno didn't get a fair chance... no weaponzzzz!" argument, don't ya think?

Even a guy who's proven to be at least a decent QB couldn't do well.  In fact, it was such a joke of a situation, he basically just accepted it.  Now of course you'd prefer a guy to claw and fight for everything...  but c'mon, let's be realistic.  A dude who was a superstar playing on what was basically a division 2 college offense?  The guy is gonna throw in the towel.

So yes, depending on other options, I'd be OK with Vick as the vet backup.

I'm not ok with Vick. I'd take Geno over him. As for 2014 we had adequate weapons including Kerley, Ivory, Powell, Amaro, Decker (no injury excuses please he started 15 games and was 74-962-5 and in 2015 he had 13 starts and was 80-1027-12. He had 7 more Tds because he had a much better Qb. We also had Chris Johnson who had 663 rushing yards and 151 receiving yards that season. And Percy Harvin who played well in some games that season.  And two good backup receivers in Chris Owusu and Greg Salas. 

[ljr]

41 minutes ago, fltflo said:

 

 

 

 

You have to admit at this point they clearly are comfortable going with Geno as the starter.

 

 

You don't let your team leader dangle in limbo unless your sure of what you have behind him. Keep in mind that Ryan has had no offseason conditioning and no chance to sync with his existing WR's as well as the new kids and his new back field.

 

 

Now with all the time away from the team and more importantly the offseason conditioning program the chance of injury rises substantially.

 

 

Factor in all the time that Geno has put in with the 1's thru the offseason program.

 

 

Which BTW has given both the FO and the CS and excellent opportunity to evaluate Geno's progress or lack there of, if that were the case.

 

 

I would have to think from just the above there is a fair amount of certainty that Geno can hold his own and at this time, and is better prepared to run the team then Fitzpatrick is

Either that ... Or they're in a contract dispute with Fitz & trying to get the best possible deal for the team

[fltflo]

You really want him! He was here two years ago and didn't want to play, remember! (unbelievable). 

See we can agree, I want no part of Vick either. When last here and called upon he was totally unprepared to play. The guy basically stole his pay check.

The QB who impressed most last season was McCowen from the Browns. Although he got hurt playing us, I like his arm and smarts. I would certainly give up a 7th round pick and pay him the 3 million we gave Fitz last year to backup Geno. With RG3 the mostly likely starter in Cle, I could see the Browns willing to deal.

[Mike135]

6 minutes ago, fltflo said:

See we can agree, I want no part of Vick either. When last here and called upon he was totally unprepared to play. The guy basically stole his pay check.

The QB who impressed most last season was McCowen from the Browns. Although he got hurt playing us, I like his arm and smarts. I would certainly give up a 7th round pick and pay him the 3 million we gave Fitz last year to backup Geno. With RG3 the mostly likely starter in Cle, I could see the Browns willing to deal.

I'd definitely prefer McCowen over Vick.

But I'd also prefer Geno/Vick to Fitz/Geno.