Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, Mike135 said:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/12/brandon-marshall-says-jets-would-be-ok-with-geno-smith-or-bryce-petty/

“Just seeing Bryce and Geno grow so much the last year is really encouraging, and I’m just proud of those guys,” Marshall said. “We’ll be OK.”

Marshall is such a QB whore.  Whoever is under center is the guy he wants to f*ck.  If we bring back Fitz it'll be him.  If/when we bench Fitz it'll be the new guy under center.  If its Geno it'll be him. 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Marshall is such a QB whore.  Whoever is under center is the guy he wants to f*ck.  If we bring back Fitz it'll be him.  If/when we bench Fitz it'll be the new guy under center.  If its Geno it'll be him. 

should he say "we'll suck if we don't have Fitz, Gneo and petty suck"?  what is wrong w/ talking up his guys and trying to give them confidence?

[RutgersJetFan]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

@Smashmouth needs to take a look at this article. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not gonna be our Rich Gannon. Ever. 

But you'll always be MY Rich Gannon. :boop:

[jdeacon]

Marshall is just saying the right thing and being a good locker room presence. God bless him for it because we all know what happens when you get malcontent in the locker room.

I am personally fine with rolling with Geno, Petty and Hack as the qb trio. If we do pony up the money for Fitz I wouldn't be upset either. The only way we make the playoffs this year is to play smart football on offense and have the defense play on an elite level all year round.

[PatsFanTX]

Marshall is such a QB whore.  Whoever is under center is the guy he wants to f*ck.  If we bring back Fitz it'll be him.  If/when we bench Fitz it'll be the new guy under center.  If its Geno it'll be him. 

If the Jets QB was an ISIS terrorist, Marshall would praise and support him.

[PatsFanTX]

Marshall is such a QB whore.  Whoever is under center is the guy he

[Sperm Edwards]

11 hours ago, ljr said:

I'm curious ... You are often holding Fitz responsible for his lose & go home performance in week 17 ... Are you also willing to give credit for his lose & go home performances the 5 previous games leading up to that?

#1 those weren't lose and go home games

#2 the only reason the prior game was close and required OT - which further required BB deferring the football in OT - is because Fitz fumble-6'd earlier.

#3 over that span the defense gave up 13, 16 (really 10), 8, 13 (really 10), and 14 (unless anyone truly counts a garbage-time TD with :14 left vs Miami). Those games are "really 10" because the offense turned the ball over where the other team was already in FG range, and only got a FG. But you want to credit Ryan Fitzpatrick for those 5 wins? Come on.

[Rangers9]

Are you kidding. Marshall fought with Jay Cutler in Chicago. If things don't go just right for him he's a problem in the locker room. With the Jets and Fitz things went well. Fitz can work with these guys including prima donna receivers like Marshall. It's a big factor in bringing him back. You aren't probably going to get this with anyone else. 

[ylekram]

38 minutes ago, slats said:

@Smashmouth needs to take a look at this article. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not gonna be our Rich Gannon. Ever. 

I got to the point where the blogger talked about the 2nd "almost" pick  6. if fitz threw the ball to where the play was designed to go, it would have been an interception. fitz sees this and decides to ground the ball. somehow, this is supposed to be a qb blunder. that's where I stopped reading. reminds me of that other very similar garbage, hack article. I could make a similar video, on any player in the nfl, painting them in a good light or bad, depending on which clips I use. especially qb, considering fitz threw the ball 562 times last year.i don't think it would be hard to cherry pick a dozen or so bad plays given the fact of how many times the qb throws the ball. I am sure I could manage to cherry pick a dozen or so great plays and write an article proclaiming fitz to be an all pro. only sheep take credence in these articles

[Savage69]

19 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Are you kidding. Marshall fought with Jay Cutler in Chicago. If things don't go just right for him he's a problem in the locker room. With the Jets and Fitz things went well. Fitz can work with these guys including prima donna receivers like Marshall. It's a big factor in bringing him back. You aren't probably going to get this with anyone else. 

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2012/11/27/3697806/why-i-hate-jay-cutler-and-why-you-should-too

[ylekram]

34 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

#1 those weren't lose and go home games

#2 the only reason the prior game was close and required OT - which further required BB deferring the football in OT - is because Fitz fumble-6'd earlier.

#3 over that span the defense gave up 13, 16 (really 10), 8, 13 (really 10), and 14 (unless anyone truly counts a garbage-time TD with :14 left vs Miami). Those games are "really 10" because the offense turned the ball over where the other team was already in FG range, and only got a FG. But you want to credit Ryan Fitzpatrick for those 5 wins? Come on.

I would rather give credit to fitz for those 5 games than do what you are trying to do. give absolutely no credit to fitz at all. like he was the ball boy or something

[Beerfish]

The Jets were 5-1 in their last 6 games trying to make a playoff run.  During those games the QB threw 15 td passes to 4 ints, lost 1 fumble was sacked 9 times and averaged 284 yards passing per game.

The Jets were the only team in the league to score at least 17 points in every game thus giving the team a chance to win every game.

The Jets were 3rd in the league in red zone inefficiency.

 

I don't give a hit how much people hate the flutter balls or lack of deep game or bad last game.  All of the above metrics clearly show the Qb played very well last year.  Any person with no biased agenda would look at those things and see a good performance, you do not fluke out a years worth of consistent play.

 

It's mind boggling how much flack the QB from last year gets on here considering the awful awful garbage this team has trotted out at Qb over the last 6 or so years. 

 

 

 

[slats]

27 minutes ago, ylekram said:

I got to the point where the blogger talked about the 2nd "almost" pick  6. if fitz threw the ball to where the play was designed to go, it would have been an interception. fitz sees this and decides to ground the ball. somehow, this is supposed to be a qb blunder. that's where I stopped reading. reminds me of that other very similar garbage, hack article. I could make a similar video, on any player in the nfl, painting them in a good light or bad, depending on which clips I use. especially qb, considering fitz threw the ball 562 times last year.i don't think it would be hard to cherry pick a dozen or so bad plays given the fact of how many times the qb throws the ball. I am sure I could manage to cherry pick a dozen or so great plays and write an article proclaiming fitz to be an all pro. only sheep take credence in these articles

So then you missed the part at the end where it says Fitz is dead last most (if not all) major passing categories for all QBs who have thrown more than 3000 passes over the last ten years. That was the punch line. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, ylekram said:

I would rather give credit to fitz for those 5 games than do what you are trying to do. give absolutely no credit to fitz at all. like he was the ball boy or something

I know. We lose = team gets credit for the loss. We win = Fitzpatrick gets credit for the win. How many posts have you made about the defense holding those 5 opponents to such a low point total? Probably zero. 

Seriously, can you look at those points-surrended by the defense again? 13, 10, 8, 13, 14. When the defense surrenders 22, suddenly we can't be expected to win. That's a Herm Edwards "real football" mentality. If the defense truly surrenders a typical (but still above-average) 17 ppg in that stretch, then we lose 3 of those 5 despite Captain Beard's presence on the field.

If we lost games because the defense was surrendering 30-50 points, and we came close, then that's one thing. But people throw up their hands with a "Hey, what can you do?" if a mere 22-24 points are surrendered a handful of times and (garbage time notwithstanding) we lose every single one of them, it points to an offense that is coasting off bottom-feeders.

[BowlesMovement]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

I know. We lose = team gets credit for the loss. We win = Fitzpatrick gets credit for the win. 

 

This is going to sound really off the wall insane, but I am just going to throw it out there for your bashing....

BUT, how about we lose, team gets credit for the loss, we win, team gets credit for the win? Fitzpatrick is a part of the team, and happens to play the position that most Jets fans feel is far and away the most important position on the field.

Just spitballing here.

[ylekram]

1 hour ago, slats said:

So then you missed the part at the end where it says Fitz is dead last most (if not all) major passing categories for all QBs who have thrown more than 3000 passes over the last ten years. That was the punch line. 

I care about as much as what Fitzpatrick did  most of the way thru his career as I do about the article. the article itself is the punch line, not the line at the end

[ylekram]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I know. We lose = team gets credit for the loss. We win = Fitzpatrick gets credit for the win. How many posts have you made about the defense holding those 5 opponents to such a low point total? Probably zero. 

Seriously, can you look at those points-surrended by the defense again? 13, 10, 8, 13, 14. When the defense surrenders 22, suddenly we can't be expected to win. That's a Herm Edwards "real football" mentality. If the defense truly surrenders a typical (but still above-average) 17 ppg in that stretch, then we lose 3 of those 5 despite Captain Beard's presence on the field.

If we lost games because the defense was surrendering 30-50 points, and we came close, then that's one thing. But people throw up their hands with a "Hey, what can you do?" if a mere 22-24 points are surrendered a handful of times and (garbage time notwithstanding) we lose every single one of them, it points to an offense that is coasting off bottom-feeders.

you don't know. team wins and losses falls on who? maybe the team? fitz deserves "the proper" amount  of credit for wins and losses. nothing more. nothing less. you seem to have the believe that when the jets win, the credit goes to schedule, defense, gailey, marshal, whoever. but when the jets lose, the credit goes to fitz. the drum beating goes on

btw, nobody is saying that fitz gets all the credit for the wins and non for the losses. that's pure exaggeration.

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

The Jets were 5-1 in their last 6 games trying to make a playoff run.  During those games the QB threw 15 td passes to 4 ints, lost 1 fumble was sacked 9 times and averaged 284 yards passing per game.

The Jets were the only team in the league to score at least 17 points in every game thus giving the team a chance to win every game.

The Jets were 3rd in the league in red zone inefficiency.

 

I don't give a hit how much people hate the flutter balls or lack of deep game or bad last game.  All of the above metrics clearly show the Qb played very well last year.  Any person with no biased agenda would look at those things and see a good performance, you do not fluke out a years worth of consistent play.

 

It's mind boggling how much flack the QB from last year gets on here considering the awful awful garbage this team has trotted out at Qb over the last 6 or so years. 

 

 

 

Those aren't metrics. You're lumping together volume passing statistics against the easiest stretch of the jets season in order to push your agenda. The fact that you have zero capability to break it down any further than that indicates you really have no leg to stand on. So you huff and puff like your 5-1 and 284 ypg actually means something, and cry about how everybody else having an agenda if they want a little more thoughtful analysis. Why? Because you know your nonsense falls apart once you really start looking at the data 

[ljr]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

The Jets were 5-1 in their last 6 games trying to make a playoff run.  During those games the QB threw 15 td passes to 4 ints, lost 1 fumble was sacked 9 times and averaged 284 yards passing per game.

The Jets were the only team in the league to score at least 17 points in every game thus giving the team a chance to win every game.

The Jets were 3rd in the league in red zone inefficiency.

 

I don't give a hit how much people hate the flutter balls or lack of deep game or bad last game.  All of the above metrics clearly show the Qb played very well last year.  Any person with no biased agenda would look at those things and see a good performance, you do not fluke out a years worth of consistent play.

 

It's mind boggling how much flack the QB from last year gets on here considering the awful awful garbage this team has trotted out at Qb over the last 6 or so years. 

 

 

 

Well said BF!

Sperm, I don't understand how you have worked yourself so far into a corner on this that all you are allowing yourself to see is blind rage hatred for Fitzpatrick ... & anyone who doesn't also strongly subscribe to this view is Fitz worshipper!

the fact is he performed better than 99% of us could have imagined in that stretch run ... Up until the final moment where he $h*t the bed in Buffalo. (I don't have the #'s at my fingertips ... But do recall hearing the way the Wildcard race was playing out that basically we were in a lose & go home situation for those final 6 games)

Many of us who are preferring him as our QB for 2016 are seeing him with both good & bad qualities ... But definitely better than the other options we've had any realistic chance to QB this team this year.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, BowlesMovement said:

This is going to sound really off the wall insane, but I am just going to throw it out there for your bashing....

BUT, how about we lose, team gets credit for the loss, we win, team gets credit for the win? Fitzpatrick is a part of the team, and happens to play the position that most Jets fans feel is far and away the most important position on the field.

Just spitballing here.

Did I say no?

I do place more weight on the QB position, though, when he's turning the ball over. So do you, incidentally (when it's not Fitzpatrick, anyway).

I do think that he gets a lot more credit than he deserves given the circumstances that are just glossed over as meaningless.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, ylekram said:

you don't know. team wins and losses falls on who? maybe the team? fitz deserves "the proper" amount  of credit for wins and losses. nothing more. nothing less. you seem to have the believe that when the jets win, the credit goes to schedule, defense, gailey, marshal, whoever. but when the jets lose, the credit goes to fitz. the drum beating goes on

btw, nobody is saying that fitz gets all the credit for the wins and non for the losses. that's pure exaggeration.

He has the same exact personal performance, with a defense that gives up another 5 ppg, a typical pair of WRs, and a normal schedule, and you know what you've got? A backup QB that garners a 2 year contract at $4-5M per season.

[BowlesMovement]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Did I say no?

I do place more weight on the QB position, though, when he's turning the ball over. So do you, incidentally (when it's not Fitzpatrick, anyway).

I do think that he gets a lot more credit than he deserves given the circumstances that are just glossed over as meaningless.

Ehh, kind of. I have seen you talk about Geno being the QB of an 8-8 team his rookie year, and seen you pretty much blame Fitzpatrick solely for the Bills game, with a bit of Bowles sprinkled in, and pretty much say that the entirety of the 10 wins was schedule and WR's. 

I don't think anyone thinks he is really better than he is, I think people see the good and bad in him, and recognize that the good and bad in him is better than anything else available to start this year, and much better than anything we have had starting at QB for us in a while.

[ylekram]

9 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Ehh, kind of. I have seen you talk about Geno being the QB of an 8-8 team his rookie year, and seen you pretty much blame Fitzpatrick solely for the Bills game, with a bit of Bowles sprinkled in, and pretty much say that the entirety of the 10 wins was schedule and WR's. 

I don't think anyone thinks he is really better than he is, I think people see the good and bad in him, and recognize that the good and bad in him is better than anything else available to start this year, and much better than anything we have had starting at QB for us in a while.

the bottom line is fitz, last year, played mostly well. I think any person with a clear head can see this. did he have bad games? bad throws? bad decisions? bad interceptions? sure to all of these. but he played well most of the time. instead of what we have become used to over the past coupla decades. qb's who don't play mostly well. to the anti-fitz poster, to say fitz played mostly well and to welcome him back at a reasonable contract as a bridge qb, well, they see that as saying fitz is a franchise qb and is the future.and must be paid $16m a year for multiple years. in reality, this entire thread is a straw man argument

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, ylekram said:

the bottom line is fitz, last year, played mostly well. I think any person with a clear head can see this. did he have bad games? bad throws? bad decisions? bad interceptions? sure to all of these. but he played well most of the time. instead of what we have become used to over the past coupla decades. qb's who don't play mostly well. to the anti-fitz poster, to say fitz played mostly well and to welcome him back at a reasonable contract as a bridge qb, well, they see that as saying fitz is a franchise qb and is the future. in reality, this entire thread is a straw man argument

Agree, I think a lot of people said up front that Fitz sucks, and have stuck to it come hell or high water. A lot of people are more interested in defending their opinion than taking it for what it is. And for the record, I wanted no part of Fitz coming here last year, none. He surprised me by being better than I thought he would be, and that is not to say he was great by any stretch. 

[Warfish]

26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He has the same exact personal performance, with a defense that gives up another 5 ppg, a typical pair of WRs, and a normal schedule, and you know what you've got? A backup QB that garners a 2 year contract at $4-5M per season.

Ok.  Lets say for a moment we agree.  Fitz is a JAG.

How is this related to our current starting QB, Geno Smith?  Fitz being thought of poorly will not make Geno Smith improve, nor will silly posts like "well, if we extrapolate his game vs. the Raiders, he was actually the best QB in the NFL last year, durrrr...."

Fitz is not on the team.  It looks more and more likely he won't be on the team, as we lack cap space for a appropriate deal (much less his inappropriate 16 mil/year supposed request.).  

Geno Smith is the apparently uncontested starting QB on the New York Jets.  We should likely be more concerned with how the worst QB in the NFL his two years as starter will play in 2016, than if Fitz is worth 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12 million when we don't have (currently) 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12 million in cap space to give him.

Maybe we should be thinking more about how "just needs a fair chance and talent around him" Geno will play in 2016, and stop (as some are already doing) making preemptive excuses for why Geno won't come close to what Fitz did (despite Fitz being a JAG carried by the talent) last year. 

[cant wait]

17 minutes ago, ylekram said:

the bottom line is fitz, last year, played mostly well. I think any person with a clear head can see this. did he have bad games? bad throws? bad decisions? bad interceptions? sure to all of these. but he played well most of the time. instead of what we have become used to over the past coupla decades. qb's who don't play mostly well. to the anti-fitz poster, to say fitz played mostly well and to welcome him back at a reasonable contract as a bridge qb, well, they see that as saying fitz is a franchise qb and is the future.and must be paid $16m a year for multiple years. in reality, this entire thread is a straw man argument

Okay so say fitz last year was solely responsible for keeping the jets competitive, and dismiss the supporting cast, luck, or incredibly weak schedule like you do. Why shouldn't the jets pay fitz $16M then? Isn't that what an "average" starting QB should be paid?

[Sperm Edwards]

15 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Ehh, kind of. I have seen you talk about Geno being the QB of an 8-8 team his rookie year, and seen you pretty much blame Fitzpatrick solely for the Bills game, with a bit of Bowles sprinkled in, and pretty much say that the entirety of the 10 wins was schedule and WR's. 

I don't think anyone thinks he is really better than he is, I think people see the good and bad in him, and recognize that the good and bad in him is better than anything else available to start this year, and much better than anything we have had starting at QB for us in a while.

Oh please with the 8-8. You're thinking of someone else. If I ever brought that up it would be to illustrate how going 8-8 is possible despite how badly the QB performed. If you can find a post where I said Geno "led" us to an 8-8 record, without it being obviously tongue-in-cheek (bordering on sarcasm), then find it. Nobody seriously thinks we were 8-8 because of how wonderfully Geno Smith QB'd the team as a rookie. But hey, even with a bad QB who had no business on the field, we still did beat 2 teams that scored 27 points on us. 

[Sperm Edwards]

12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ok.  Lets say for a moment we agree.  Fitz is a JAG.

How is this related to our current starting QB, Geno Smith?  Fitz being thought of poorly will not make Geno Smith improve, nor will silly posts like "well, if we extrapolate his game vs. the Raiders, he was actually the best QB in the NFL last year, durrrr...."

Fitz is not on the team.  It looks more and more likely he won't be on the team, as we lack cap space for a appropriate deal (much less his inappropriate 16 mil/year supposed request.).  

Geno Smith is the apparently uncontested starting QB on the New York Jets.  We should likely be more concerned with how the worst QB in the NFL his two years as starter will play in 2016, than if Fitz is worth 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12 million when we don't have (currently) 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12 million in cap space to give him.

Maybe we should be thinking more about how "just needs a fair chance and talent around him" Geno will play in 2016, and stop (as some are already doing) making preemptive excuses for why Geno won't come close to what Fitz did (despite Fitz being a JAG carried by the talent) last year. 

It isn't related to Geno Smith. I am not talking up Geno Smith. I don't see why this is the constant comeback. I am looking at Fitzpatrick on his own, not in comparison to Geno Smith. In fact, I'd like to see him take the early-season lumps against the playoff teams and good defenses, and then have Bowles hand the job over to someone else who might show something. 

I'm in favor of bringing Fitz back at $7M. I've said this for months, though it is ignored and treated as not wanting him back at any price. It isn't hard to make that kind of space available. What I'm against is paying him more than that, and moving too much around just to still not win it all anyway and not give any youngster a shot. It'll be another wasted year of treading water, where the young kids are labeled as "unproven" and therefore we need to add someone else new instead. I also think it is a waste of a great situation for a young QB.

Part of me wants Fitz back at any price just so I don't have to read the endless "what would have happened with Fitzpatrick" dreams. But the Jets fan in me knows it will be a waste to spend more than high-priced backup/mentor money on him, since we're not playing against a full season of dogsh*t in 2016, and such roster-juggling doesn't further the cause of the Jets fielding a good team with a realistic shot at a superbowl. We won't be a winner with either of them at QB.

If one wants to debate whether we'd be less of a loser with one over the other, that's fine. But it doesn't mean we should be paying either more than backup money to hold the seat warm for Hackenberg or Petty.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, cant wait said:

Those aren't metrics. You're lumping together volume passing statistics against the easiest stretch of the jets season in order to push your agenda. The fact that you have zero capability to break it down any further than that indicates you really have no leg to stand on. So you huff and puff like your 5-1 and 284 ypg actually means something, and cry about how everybody else having an agenda if they want a little more thoughtful analysis. Why? Because you know your nonsense falls apart once you really start looking at the data 

Just what the hell are you talking about?  Do you dispute one thing out of any the stats I showed?

You do not score 17 points in every game of a season and you are not 3rd in red zone efficiency  if your Qb is not playing well.  You countered absolutely ZERO points I made and as with some of the other brainiacs that don't have a good word to say about the Qbing of last year your credibility crumbles completely.

We had an easy sched....we had weaponzzzz....we didn't make the playoffs... are the great metrics used by the anti Fitzpatrick crowd. 

One can only conclude that your ilk never watched even one game of the previous 6 or 7 years of Jets football becasue if you beef this much about the Qbing last year you head must be exploding from the Geno Sanchez era

 

 

[Savage69]

3 hours ago, ylekram said:

I would rather give credit to fitz for those 5 games than do what you are trying to do. give absolutely no credit to fitz at all. like he was the ball boy or something

Something Mangini excelled at under BB http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/01/from_ball_boy_to_team_intern_e.html

[BowlesMovement]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Oh please with the 8-8. You're thinking of someone else. If I ever brought that up it would be to illustrate how going 8-8 is possible despite how badly the QB performed. If you can find a post where I said Geno "led" us to an 8-8 record, without it being obviously tongue-in-cheek (bordering on sarcasm), then find it. Nobody seriously thinks we were 8-8 because of how wonderfully Geno Smith QB'd the team as a rookie. But hey, even with a bad QB who had no business on the field, we still did beat 2 teams that scored 27 points on us. 

Maybe, but I still think its fascinating how the anti-Fitz crowd wants to use the Fitz had nothing to do with the wins, and everything to do with the losses, yet accuse anyone who even remotely defends Fitz of doing the exact inverse of that.

I have literally not read one person say Fitz was the reason we won the 10 games, and in any one of the games we lost, he was absolved. I have on the other hand read you, and many others say his play/turnovers cost us all the games we lost, and he really did not do anything in the games we won. Almost every person who people are claiming to be pro-Fitz has really just been saying football is a team game, you win as a team, lose as a team.

You can always cherry pick stats or metrics to support your argument, any argument, and you did so at the end there.

At the end of the day, I honestly don't really care that much about Fitzpatrick, I don't see him as the future of the franchise, and I see him merely as the best option this year. I think arguing over a hypothetical salary, or salary difference is pointless right now. If he signs for $15million, I think Mac will get rightfully crushed for negotiating against himself for a guy who had no other real options, and overpaying. If he signs for $7-8 million, I think many fans will still be bitching, because they want to see Geno get one more chance, even though there is no chance of him being the future of this team either, barring a shockingly good season which would demand a franchise tag. 

Some are so caught up in hating Fitz, or hating Geno, that they are taking this to irrational levels. I would like to see Fitz come back on a deal that the shorter and the cheaper the better, but I am not going to cry if he doesn't come back, but I gaurantee there will be a lot of crying if he comes back, even at $7-8 million.

I really don't have a dog in the race here, but the Anti-Fitz group has been much, much more irrational here than anyone else.

[Smashmouth]

5 hours ago, slats said:

@Smashmouth needs to take a look at this article. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not gonna be our Rich Gannon. Ever. 

Ahh because the article ....

[PatsFanTX]

Ahh because the article ....

No, because he is a below average, JAG QB.

[PatsFanTX]

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, BowlesMovement said:

Maybe, but I still think its fascinating how the anti-Fitz crowd wants to use the Fitz had nothing to do with the wins, and everything to do with the losses, yet accuse anyone who even remotely defends Fitz of doing the exact inverse of that.

I have literally not read one person say Fitz was the reason we won the 10 games, and in any one of the games we lost, he was absolved. I have on the other hand read you, and many others say his play/turnovers cost us all the games we lost, and he really did not do anything in the games we won. Almost every person who people are claiming to be pro-Fitz has really just been saying football is a team game, you win as a team, lose as a team.

You can always cherry pick stats or metrics to support your argument, any argument, and you did so at the end there.

At the end of the day, I honestly don't really care that much about Fitzpatrick, I don't see him as the future of the franchise, and I see him merely as the best option this year. I think arguing over a hypothetical salary, or salary difference is pointless right now. If he signs for $15million, I think Mac will get rightfully crushed for negotiating against himself for a guy who had no other real options, and overpaying. If he signs for $7-8 million, I think many fans will still be bitching, because they want to see Geno get one more chance, even though there is no chance of him being the future of this team either, barring a shockingly good season which would demand a franchise tag. 

Some are so caught up in hating Fitz, or hating Geno, that they are taking this to irrational levels. I would like to see Fitz come back on a deal that the shorter and the cheaper the better, but I am not going to cry if he doesn't come back, but I gaurantee there will be a lot of crying if he comes back, even at $7-8 million.

I really don't have a dog in the race here, but the Anti-Fitz group has been much, much more irrational here than anyone else.

Then you again see what you want to see and gloss over what doesn't bother you (as I'm sure I do the same). I've seen plenty of "Fitz won 10 games," and when it's losses then the blame is spread around. When was the last time you saw a post - when Fitz had favorable stats - that touted "This was a team win!" without giving disproportionate credit to the QB? You know the answer to that: never. 

Some stats and metrics are pulled because it's an indication of what we're likely to see in the future. For example, a dropped interception was a sh*tty enough pass to be picked off. One here or there over a season, whatever; no big deal every QB does it and it could be from a bad route run as much as an errant pass. When we'd see it a dozen or more times, or when we can all tell it's all on the QB, I think it's indicative of what that QB is likely to do going forward, as compared to a QB who didn't get such hospitable treatment from the opposition. That was more Sanchez, and it's why no one should have been surprised when the "improved" 2010 season was short-lived. Sure he improved some, but not as much as his numbers indicated. Had most of those been caught, as they typically are, his numbers would have looked similar to his rookie season's (and I'm sure we'd have lost some games we won).

So that was Sanchez not Fitz. But with Fitz there are some other things I see that are a harbinger of things to come, unless the same favorable circumstances repeat. The opposition puts points on the board, then - whether they have a tough defense or not - we will lose. And I don't even mean 40 points; I mean a measly 21 points has been an automatic loss across 30 consecutive games. The favorable schedule and defense saw to it he wasn't in those situations more than a handful of times this past season. It's alarming that whenever it happened we lost, just like the past couple dozen times in a row when he was QBing a game prior to 2015.

Cherry-picking stats would be like, "Well, he lost games on the road when it was colder than 49 degrees but warmer than 23 degrees." That's just stupid and looking for a red herring. Identifying when an opponent scores 21 points (3 TDs), which is still less than the average NFL team scores per game anyway, is hardly a red herring stat.

If he can come back aboard for $7M or less, I'm 100% in favor of it, and haven't changed my position on that all offseason. I think more than that is too much, because I want it to be low enough to justify keeping him as a #2 QB, but I wouldn't go nuts if it really settled at $8M.