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Fitz or Mo? Who can be more easily replaced?

Ex-Rex

By Ex-Rex
in NY Jets Forum

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JohnnyLV

JohnnyLV

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Ex-Rex said:

None of those QB's will touch what Fitz did last year. I know that and Mac knows that, but who would be the QB that gives the Jets the best CHANCE TO WIN? Geno Smith? No feakin way. Bryce Petty? Not a chance...yet. There has been some talk of the Jets drafting a QB which I agree with, but is that guy gonna come in and be the next Broadway Joe? Didn't think so. Really, although Fitz won't match his numbers from last year, he gives the Jets the best chance to be competitive. I never said pay him what he wants because that is ludicrous, but 9-10 million is already on the table according to Rich Cimini so get it done. Oh, yeah, they can't because they don't have the cash because 15.7 million is designated to Wilkerson. Get it?

Literally none of that is true, just a very biased opinion. Personally with the weapons and Gailey, I think both Geno and Bryce as well as Hoyer Hasselbeck or first round rookie will outperform Fitz. He is at best a JAG, so easily replaceable. 

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Miss Lonelyhearts

Miss Lonelyhearts

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, JiF said:

A career journeyman back-up sh*tty QB or an elite top 3, 3-4 DE in the NFL?

Is this a serious question?

lol

Apparently it's not only a serious question but a hard one. Fitzpatrick accounted for probably 80% of this team's real (i.e., excluding strength of schedule and luck) improvement last year. Everybody claims to understand how important the quarterback is but either they really don't or they've somehow forgotten how bad things were before he got here. Fitzpatrick is a mediocre quarterback, and mediocre means mediocre. It doesn't mean bad and it certainly doesn't mean Sanchez and Geno flaming sh*tbarge worst in the league bad. Over his career he's been a little below average, last year he was a little above average. I've seen a lot of people claim that his play last season was due to Marshall rather than the other way around, which frankly is a ******* joke. One of them had a big fat outlier season last year and it wasn't Fitzpatrick. As to the question posed, we've seen what it takes to 'replace' a planet theory all-pro like Wilkerson (and I want to emphasize here I'm saying all of this notwithstanding that I think he should be retained unless Macstupid has ****ed the cap up so badly that we literally cannot even and that there's a significantly bigger gap between Wilkerson and Richardson/Williams than people here generally think), and that's a top ten pick. Which is a lot. But if you think you're getting a league-average starting quarterback for that you are completely out of your mind.

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Apparently it's not only a serious question but a hard one. Fitzpatrick accounted for probably 80% of this team's real (i.e., excluding strength of schedule and luck) improvement last year. Everybody claims to understand how important the quarterback is but either they really don't or they've somehow forgotten how bad things were before he got here. Fitzpatrick is a mediocre quarterback, and mediocre means mediocre. It doesn't mean bad and it certainly doesn't mean Sanchez and Geno flaming sh*tbarge worst in the league bad. Over his career he's been a little below average, last year he was a little above average. I've seen a lot of people claim that his play last season was due to Marshall rather than the other way around, which frankly is a ******* joke. One of them had a big fat outlier season last year and it wasn't Fitzpatrick. As to the question posed, we've seen what it takes to 'replace' a planet theory all-pro like Wilkerson (and I want to emphasize here I'm saying all of this notwithstanding that I think he should be retained unless Macstupid has ****ed the cap up so badly that we literally cannot even and that there's a significantly bigger gap between Wilkerson and Richardson/Williams than people here generally think), and that's a top ten pick. Which is a lot. But if you think you're getting a league-average starting quarterback for that you are completely out of your mind.

Have we seen what it takes to replace Mo yet?  

Was Marshall's season really an outlier?  

How is Fitz throwing 7 TD's more than ever not an outlier? 

 

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pointman

pointman

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Posted
3 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

Then get used to rooting for one of the other bums I mentioned, and I will be happy to point it out to you each and every week that these bums fail.

I rooted for that bum Fitzpatrick. I rooted for that bum Sanchez. I rooted for that bum Geno Smith. Don't worry, I'll root for whatever bum is taking snaps.

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Miss Lonelyhearts

Miss Lonelyhearts

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, JiF said:

Have we seen what it takes to replace Mo yet?  

Was Marshall's season really an outlier?  

How is Fitz throwing 7 TD's more than ever not an outlier? 

 

As to the first, no, and I think I was pretty clear on that the first time with the quotes around replace and the parenthetical disclaimer and stuff. But we can disregard Williams as a substitute and look at actual replacement level. Do you really think we lose more wins relative to last year's team by swapping Wilkerson out for Leger Douzable than by reverting to Geno or god forebid putting Bryce Petty on the field?

Second, yes, definitely. If Marshall produced at the rate he did last year over his whole career with the sheer number of throws he's seen, he's one of the five best receivers of the pass-centric era. He's not that now, no matter what the people who don't care what a ridiculous volume of his offenses' snaps had to be invested to produce his yardage and touchdown totals.

Third, lots of things go into how many touchdowns get thrown over a one-season sample. His FO stats were very much in line with his career numbers.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

Have you SEEN Geno play??? If you had you would never make such a ridiculous statement. Geno Smith will never be a starter again in his entire NFL career, I don't care where he goes. The game is too fast for him and he makes bad decisions under pressure. That is who Geno Smith is and always will be. You can throw all you want in practice against air, and against a defense that can't touch you, but can you do it on game day? Geno has PROVEN he can't do it consistently against the better teams. 

Neither can Fitzpatrick.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Average QB's are so easy to replace, I mean, that is why you never see below average QB play in the NFL, and every team gets above average play routinely. Isn't this obvious?

You're right. It is obvious. This is why guys such as Fitz and McCown are journey men (12 different franchises between the two). They're average at best QB's that can have above average play (Bears, Bills, Jets), though not routinely, and are too average to consistently play above what their career for the most part has always been. And just like how McCown was easily replaced in Tampa and soon-to-be Cleveland, Fitz could be easily replaced in NY. 

We often hear about "completion percentage" with these type of average QB's. McCown completed almost 64% of his passes this year and 4 of Fitz last 5 years he threw over 60%....With McCown this year having a MUCH better completion percentage than the reigning MVP of the league Cam Newton (59.8%). 

Whats the difference? Cam was the MVP because he will'd wins. McCown best season where he threw 13 TD's and 1 INT with a 66% completion rate his record was 3-5 during that span. Fitz has had a hand full of years where he's completed over 60% of his passes as well as 4 seasons where he's thrown for 23 or more TD's. His problem is that he cant win games when the other team scores. 

So when average QB's equals losing records and no playoffs then its pretty easy to replace them...with pretty much anything else. The fact that these average QB's have played on a combined 12 different football teams show that mediocrity can easily be replaced. And even when they have that unusually above average season, it has only produced pretty looking stats....but never wins. Cam's numbers are not impressive, yet he's an MVP, All-Pro, Probowler, Rookie of the Year, NFC champion etc. 

Good point. 

 

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BowlesMovement

BowlesMovement

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You're right. It is obvious. This is why guys such as Fitz and McCown are journey men (12 different franchises between the two). They're average at best QB's that can have above average play (Bears, Bills, Jets), though not routinely, and are too average to consistently play above what their career for the most part has always been. And just like how McCown was easily replaced in Tampa and soon-to-be Cleveland, Fitz could be easily replaced in NY. 

We often hear about "completion percentage" with these type of average QB's. McCown completed almost 64% of his passes this year and 4 of Fitz last 5 years he threw over 60%....With McCown this year having a MUCH better completion percentage than the reigning MVP of the league Cam Newton (59.8%). 

Whats the difference? Cam was the MVP because he will'd wins. McCown best season where he threw 13 TD's and 1 INT with a 66% completion rate his record was 3-5 during that span. Fitz has had a hand full of years where he's completed over 60% of his passes as well as 4 seasons where he's thrown for 23 or more TD's. His problem is that he cant win games when the other team scores. 

So when average QB's equals losing records and no playoffs then its pretty easy to replace them...with pretty much anything else. The fact that these average QB's have played on a combined 12 different football teams show that mediocrity can easily be replaced. And even when they have that unusually above average season, it has only produced pretty look stats....but never wins. Cam's numbers are not impressive, yet he's an MVP, All-Pro, Probowler, Rookie of the Year, NFC champion etc. 

Good point. 

 

Good, we agree, teams never see below average QB play, because playing average QB is easy. And I fully expect Cam to dominate forever, because his schedule was really hard last year, and he played his best when the game was the biggest.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Good, we agree, teams never see below average QB play, because playing average QB is easy. And I fully expect Cam to dominate forever, because his schedule was really hard last year, and he played his best when the game was the biggest.

Whoa, hang on. Are you being sarcastic? I think maybe you're being sarcastic. 

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BowlesMovement

BowlesMovement

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Whoa, hang on. Are you being sarcastic? I think maybe you're being sarcastic. 

Nope, I think Cam Newton is the best QB in the history of great QB's, won the 2 playoff games on his own, had the hardest schedule ever last year, and played great in the SB, but the rest of his team let him down and sucks, but he is the greatest. And playing average QB or better is simple in the NFL, I truly believe all those things....... No sarcasm here at all.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

Posted
Posted
Just now, BowlesMovement said:

Good, we agree, teams never see below average QB play, because playing average QB is easy. And I fully expect Cam to dominate forever, because his schedule was really hard last year, and he played his best when the game was the biggest.

I have to admit, its good to see eye-to-eye with you at times. Just look at your latest example. 

I fully expect Cam to dominate, especially when he loses his superstar defensive player for beating up his girlfriend, as well as season ending injuries to his #1 WR and depth WR's. For him to have one of the easiest schedules and really take advantage is what a MVP player that was responsible for 85% of the Panthers offense was supposed to do. Then when he gets to the playoffs, he shows that beating up on weaker teams isn not all that he can do on his way to the superbowl. Ending the season as MVP and SB runner up isnt bad. 

 

Now as for Fitz, thats a different story. Having the easiest schedule in the league, no major injuries, #1 WR duo, 1,000 yard rusher, 7th best defense in terms of points allowed, yet his mediocrity allowed him go go 1-6 against teams who scored 21 or more points (similar to what I said in the first comment) while throwing 3 picks in a row to end the season without a playoff birth. 

 

Cam Newton should be ashamed of himself for sure losing in the superbowl. Meanwhile Fitz should be resigned because he found a way to make mediocrity look good on our way to a non-playoff season. 

 

You're on a roll bro. 

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BowlesMovement

BowlesMovement

Posted
Posted
Just now, Villain The Foe said:

I have to admit, its good to see eye-to-eye with you at times. Just look at your latest example. 

I fully expect Cam to dominate, especially when he loses his superstar defensive player for beating up his girlfriend, as well as season ending injuries to his #1 WR and depth WR's. For him to have one of the easiest schedules and really take advantage is what a MVP player that was responsible for 85% of the Panthers offense was supposed to do. Then when he gets to the playoffs, he shows that beating up on weaker teams isn not all that he can do on his way to the superbowl. Ending the season as MVP and SB runner up isnt bad. 

 

Now as for Fitz, thats a different story. Having the easiest schedule in the league, no major injuries, #1 WR duo, 1,000 yard rusher, 7th best defense in terms of points allowed, yet his mediocrity allowed him go go 1-6 against teams who scored 21 or more points (similar to what I said in the first comment) while throwing 3 picks in a row to end the season without a playoff birth. 

 

Cam Newton should be ashamed of himself for sure losing in the superbowl. Meanwhile Fitz should be resigned because he found a way to make mediocrity look good on our way to a non-playoff season. 

 

You're on a roll bro. 

Cool, glad we see eye to eye, cause I have so much respect for your opinions and all that stuff, you have proven yourself to know football better than most.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

No, when you talk, people should listen, whether they do or not, is on them, but they should

Well, when I talk people do listen. Just ask @RutgersJetFan or @Integrity28

Im like the Howard Stern of Jetnation. They love to bitch about what I say or how I think....yet they all tune the **** in! lol. Im infectious in that way, what can I say? The only guy that I have ever seen on Jetnation actually say "hey I dont like what you have to say" and literally ignored me was @Jetsfan80 , and it took me to show him how to find the "ignore button" on Jetnation. 

So you damn right its on them. Their mouth doesnt reflect their actions, and truth be told...neither does yours. Lets me know that I have the upper hand in this pissing match. :-) 

 

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BowlesMovement

BowlesMovement

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Well, when I talk people do listen. Just ask @RutgersJetFan or @Integrity28

Im like the Howard Stern of Jetnation. They love to bitch about what I say or how I think....yet they all tune the **** in! lol. Im infectious in that way, what can I say? The only guy that I have ever seen on Jetnation actually say "hey I dont like what you have to say" and literally ignored me was @Jetsfan80 , and it took me to show him how to find the "ignore poster" on Jetnation. 

So you damn right its on them. Their mouth doesnt reflect their actions. Lets me know that I have the upper hand in this pissing match. :-) 

 

Well, at least its not all about being right on the interwebs, cauz for some, thats all its about, but you are clearly above all that, and knowledgeable as all fk about all things football too.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Well, at least its not all about being right on the interwebs, cauz for some, thats all its about, but you are clearly above all that, and knowledgeable as all fk about all things football too.

Na, its about having fun. Some guys understand that, such as @Sperm Edwards , others take the internet too seriously. 

Go look at my Josh Gordon conversation with Sperm. Me and Sperm can go back and forth yet at the end laugh and keep it moving. Probably because we dont act all moody and hurt everytime one of us says something that the other doesnt necessarily agree with (donation anyone?)

Sperm understands how the internet works. Trust me, if you try this, you'll see that im a pretty cool guy! :-) 

 

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BowlesMovement

BowlesMovement

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Na, its about having fun. Some guys understand that, such as @Sperm Edwards , others take the internet too seriously. 

Go look at my Josh Gordon conversation with Sperm. Me and Sperm can go back and forth yet at the end laugh and keep it moving. Probably because we dont we dont act all moody and hurt everytime one of us says something that the other doesnt necessarily agree with (donation anyone?)

Sperm understands how the internet works. Trust me, if you try this, you'll see that im a pretty cool guy! :-) 

 

Word

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