Poll: Fitz vs Geno

[Powpow]

26 minutes ago, slats said:

I continue to not believe that Fitz makes a big difference in wins and losses over Geno next year, and continue to prefer they save their money. Also don't believe the front office should be in the business of pleasing the players or the fans in the short term over building for the long term. And building for the long term means evaluating young players, acquiring comp picks, and conserving money for players that will help the team beyond 2016. 

As for playing in -10F, lol. I don't think the temperature dipped below 50° for Fitz last year, but I was talking about a little wind. Guy had the weakest arm in the league. Just another reason he's still a free agent. 

FYI it was COLD and very WINDY in Buffalo at game 17 not 'a little breezy'.  And its more than just a few wins Fitz brings to the table which you refuse to accept. Its leadership, comraderie, hope, mentorship.  Maybe that's why Mac is STILL holding out hope and hasn't closed the door on Fitz resigning. At least he still has some faith.   

[Rangers9]

Look, I thought that Mark Sanchez was the GM killer. I mean look what happened to Tanny after he signed Mark to that stupid and costly extension after he had a bad year. And Mark didn't do Chip Kelly any favors either taking over a 6-2 team and not making the playoffs. If Philly had made the playoffs that year he probably wouldn't have been fired. And the first move new management made was to get rid of Sanchez for basically nothing. But Geno. Well, the GM that drafted him was fired after only two seasons and hated by the fans who blamed him for everything (sound familiar). And the number one thing on that list of grievances was his supposed lack of knowledge on personnel and poor drafting. And his least popular draft choice was: Geno Smith. So I don't think that Mac is dumb enough to want to walk down that avenue. He, unlike his predecessor has the basic instinct for survival. You have to pay the dude. 

[Mike135]

23 minutes ago, Powpow said:

FYI it was COLD and very WINDY in Buffalo at game 17 not 'a little breezy'.  And its more than just a few wins Fitz brings to the table which you refuse to accept. Its leadership, comraderie, hope, mentorship.  Maybe that's why Mac is STILL holding out hope and hasn't closed the door on Fitz resigning. At least he still has some faith.   

Or maybe it's why Macc is feigning interest in Fitz.  No argument he's a good guy.  Perhaps Macc is making a respectable offer of 7mil public so another team gives Fitz a decent deal.

Like, "Look Fitzy, you're a good guy, but we don't want to pay ya much and you screwed us week 17.  How can we help you get a deal with another team?"

[slats]

30 minutes ago, Powpow said:

FYI it was COLD and very WINDY in Buffalo at game 17 not 'a little breezy'.  And its more than just a few wins Fitz brings to the table which you refuse to accept. Its leadership, comraderie, hope, mentorship.  Maybe that's why Mac is STILL holding out hope and hasn't closed the door on Fitz resigning. At least he still has some faith.   

Yeah, you're right. It was only about 40° warmer than -10°. 

[PatsFanTX]

Yeah, you're right. It was only about 40° warmer than -10°. 

Here was the weather at kickoff:

35 degrees relative humidity 70%, wind 21 mph

Hardly very cold and very windy for January 2nd in Buffalo.

[Mike135]

16 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Here was the weather at kickoff:

35 degrees relative humidity 70%, wind 21 mph

Hardly very cold and very windy for January 2nd in Buffalo.

When you throw the ball 25mph, a 21mph wind is tough to deal with.

Good thing the Meadowlands doesn't get windy in Nov and Dec.

[JetsFanatic]

I honestly find it pathetic that given the endless seasons we've had to endure of poor QB play that any Jet fan would disparage Fitz's performance last season. I excuse comments from  a troll like PatsFanTx (give a monkey a gun..).  If a Jets fan wants to opine that you doubt Fitz can duplicate last year and would rather give Geno one last shot to see what he's got, whether or not I agree,  I can respect and accept that opinion. However to put down Fitz last season is pure lunacy.

 

 

 

[Mike135]

6 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

I honestly find it pathetic that given the endless seasons we've had to endure of poor QB play that any Jet fan would disparage Fitz's performance last season. I excuse comments from  a troll like PatsFanTx (give a monkey a gun..).  If a Jets fan wants to opine that you doubt Fitz can duplicate last year and would rather give Geno one last shot to see what he's got, whether or not I agree,  I can respect and accept it. However to put down Fitz last season is pure lunacy.

 

 

 

I don't know that anyone is just flat out knocking Fitz.

It's only when you consider the possible numbers being discussed (7mil, 9, 11, 15) that then causes people to put him down.

If Fitz was still under contract for 3.5 (or whatever he made last year) I'd use the argument you suggest of saying, "I'd rather give Geno one last shot to see what he's got."

But that's not the case.  Fitz is asking for money that can have longterm negative effects on this team.  So it raises the stakes.

[PatsFanTX]

Good thing the Meadowlands doesn't get windy in Nov and Dec.

Every Nov and Dec game last year in the Meadowlands the temperature was 50+ degrees and the wind was less than 10 MPH.

Fitz played in near perfect weather conditions the entire season last year.

That won't happen 2 years in a row.

[Mike135]

Just now, PatsFanTX said:

Every Nov and Dec game last year in the Meadowlands the temperature was 50+ degrees and the wind was less than 10 MPH.

Fitz played in near perfect weather conditions the entire season last year.

That won't happen 2 years in a row.

Yup.  Basically if I have a hard time keeping the canopy from turning into a kite during the tailgate, I know Fitz is screwed.

[JetsFanatic]

4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I don't know that anyone is just flat out knocking Fitz.

It's only when you consider the possible numbers being discussed (7mil, 9, 11, 15) that then causes people to put him down.

If Fitz was still under contract for 3.5 (or whatever he made last year) I'd use the argument you suggest of saying, "I'd rather give Geno one last shot to see what he's got."

But that's not the case.  Fitz is asking for money that can have longterm negative effects on this team.  So it raises the stakes.

I wouldn't pay Fitz anything more than what the Jets are offering him as I have serious doubts he can duplicate last season. I have yet to vote in this poll as I am still undecided.  That said, I have had season tickets since 1978, Fitz gave us the best QB play since the first half of the Brett Farve season in 2008.

[YankeeJet22]

Chan Gailey will do wonders for Geno.

 

 

[Rangers9]

6 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I don't know that anyone is just flat out knocking Fitz.

It's only when you consider the possible numbers being discussed (7mil, 9, 11, 15) that then causes people to put him down.

If Fitz was still under contract for 3.5 (or whatever he made last year) I'd use the argument you suggest of saying, "I'd rather give Geno one last shot to see what he's got."

But that's not the case.  Fitz is asking for money that can have longterm negative effects on this team.  So it raises the stakes.

There is no long term negative effect. The Qb is usually your most expensive player and you have to adequately budget for that position. If they want to low ball it and spend it for other players then ok. It's the FO's decision. The Jets had plenty of cap space but spent most of it and still didn't re-sign Wilk. They spent it on Revis etc. Plus after Brick retired they signed Clady and could end up losing 3 mil if he doesn't play and he was out all of last year. I'm not going to criticize Mac at least for a few years but on the surface not good decisions. So they should have money to pay Fitz. Not an over the top figure like 16 mil per but a reasonable starter's salary with some money guaranteed. And he should be compensated for being way underpaid last year. 

[Mike135]

40 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

I wouldn't pay Fitz anything more than what the Jets are offering him as I have serious doubts he can duplicate last season. I have yet to vote in this poll as I am still undecided.  

Allow me to help you decide.

The setting.  An early October Sunday.  Heinz Field.  Perfect football weather.  50 degrees, light winds, mostly sunny.

You sit down on the couch after a Saturday and Sunday morning of family stuff and getting the chores out of the way.  Finally, you're able to crack a brew and watch football!

Now we're gonna have a good D, but Pitt is gonna score over 21 on us.  Do you want to see Pitt stack the box making it difficult to run and shutting down the short and medium passes because they have no reason to respect the long ball?

Or...

Would you like to see an offense that can go toe-to-toe with the NFL's best offenses?  Imagine a defense having to respect the long ball.  They can't stack the box all the time.  So Forte and Powell get started early pounding away.

Pitt then decides to send a safety up...  wrong move.  Geno to Devin/Peake for 50yds. (Man that beer is tasting good right about now.)

But it doesn't end there.  We have weapons to cover the entire field.  Marshall/Decker/Amaro tearing apart the midrange.  Forte and Powell plugging away and escaping out of the backfield for the short passes.

(Time for the second brew now.  Aw hell, just take out the six pack and keep it next to you cause this is damn fun.)

We have the historic Pitt D on the ropes.  Guessing and failing because we can strike anywhere anyway we want.  

The Pitt D eventually tires.  Instead of meandering through quarters 2 and 3, we're actually running up the score.

(You're now drunk at this point, but screw it.  This is worth a little hangover Monday.  You break out the second six pack.)

Pitt's offense now becomes one dimensional having to pass to try and catch up.  Bowles lets the dogs hunt.  Wilk, Sheldon, Williams, Mauldin and Lee are in full "kill Ben" mode.

The clock ticks to 0:00.  The score?  38-24 Jets.  Tomlin is dumbfounded.  The dumbass yellow towel waving fans are speechless and quietly laboring to their cars.

The Jets have just announced they're contenders.  Good $hit!

Or of course you could instead choose to lose 20 to 31 by going with Fitz.  Then listening to Bowles saying the team played well and will improve during the press conference on SNY.  Ray Lucas and the gang giving us credit for playing well.  Hey it's a good moral victory.

Your call.  I don't want to persuade you either way.

 

[joewilly12]

The members of JetNation.com have spoken we want Geno Smith as starting QB of the NY Jets 

[JetsFanatic]

11 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Allow me to help you decide.

The setting.  An early October Sunday.  Heinz Field.  Perfect football weather.  50 degrees, light winds, mostly sunny.

You sit down on the couch after a Saturday and Sunday morning of family stuff and getting the chores out of the way.  Finally, you're able to crack a brew and watch football!

Now we're gonna have a good D, but Pitt is gonna score over 21 on us.  Do you want to see Pitt stack the box making it difficult to run and shutting down the short and medium passes because they have no reason to respect the long ball?

Or...

Would you like to see an offense that can go toe-to-toe with the NFL's best offenses?  Imagine a defense having to respect the long ball.  They can't stack the box all the time.  So Forte and Powell get started early pounding away.

Pitt then decides to send a safety up...  wrong move.  Geno to Devin/Peake for 50yds. (Man that beer is tasting good right about now.)

But it doesn't end there.  We have weapons to cover the entire field.  Marshall/Decker/Amaro tearing apart the midrange.  Forte and Powell plugging away and escaping out of the backfield for the short passes.

(Time for the second brew now.  Aw hell, just take out the six pack and keep it next to you cause this is damn fun.)

We have the historic Pitt D on the ropes.  Guessing and failing because we can strike anywhere anyway we want.  

The Pitt D eventually tires.  Instead of meandering through quarters 2 and 3, we're actually running up the score.

(You're now drunk at this point, but screw it.  This is worth a little hangover Monday.  You break out the second six pack.)

Pitt's offense now becomes one dimensional having to pass to try and catch up.  Bowles lets the dogs hunt.  Wilk, Sheldon, Williams and Lee are in full "kill Ben" mode.

The clock ticks to 0:00.  The score?  38-24 Jets.  Tomlin is dumbfounded.  The dumbass yellow towel waving fans are speechless and quietly laboring to their cars.

The Jets have just announced they're contenders.  Good $hit!

Or of course you could instead choose to lose 20 to 31 by going with Fitz.  Then listening to Bowles saying the team played well and will improve during the press conference on SNY.  Ray Lucas and the gang giving us credit for playing well.  Hey it's a good moral victory.

Your call.  I don't want to persuade you either way.

 

LOL! I've always felt Geno is a physically gifted QB, what I worry about is his decision making. 

[Rangers9]

I mean do the Jets really want to pay Wilk over 15 mil for 2016. The guy is a good player and pass rusher but what did he have: 64 tackles and 12 sacks. And he's coming off of a broken leg. But what does Mo want. Maybe 15 not for one year but for 5 years or 85 mil or something high like that. And maybe half guaranteed. Would the Patriots give him that. Very doubtful. And there's your cap problems: that and the Revis deal which pays him 17 this year. And you don't have money for a Qb and want to start rookies or Geno Smith. We'll see what happens. But if they let Fitz walk and the team regresses Mac is putting his head on the chopping block. And our fans will gladly cut it off. 

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

LOL! I've always felt Geno is a physically gifted QB, what I worry about is his decision making. 

Take his first two years.  There were no good decisions to make then.  Now there'll be at least 5 on the field with him at all times.

Should help in the decision making process.

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

neither one of these guys can get the jets to the playoffs.  why can't we have a hack vs petty thread?

Because it's more fun listening to someone brag that an 11 year vet who hasn't made the playoffs in any of his 11 seasons is comparable to a QB with only 2 years experience not making the playoffs.

As if that actually proves something. 

[Mike135]

11 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I mean do the Jets really want to pay Wilk over 15 mil for 2016. The guy is a good player and pass rusher but what did he have: 64 tackles and 12 sacks. And he's coming off of a broken leg. But what does Mo want. Maybe 15 not for one year but for 5 years or 85 mil or something high like that. And maybe half guaranteed. Would the Patriots give him that. Very doubtful. And there's your cap problems: that and the Revis deal which pays him 17 this year. And you don't have money for a Qb and want to start rookies or Geno Smith. We'll see what happens. But if they let Fitz walk and the team regresses Mac is putting his head on the chopping block. And our fans will gladly cut it off. 

Read that back to yourself out loud and really listen to it.

Now I can understand trading Wilk for draft picks.  At some point (I think) we're gonna lose him or Sheldon.  Tough to keep 3 DEs who'll demand top dollar.  But who knows maybe Bowles can figure a way to keep all 3 involved enough.

But you're actually suggesting we release Wilk to be able to sign Fitz.

Fitz.  Who's not even getting interest from other teams @7mil as a free agent.  If Wilk hit the market now, a team would snatch him up in a minute for probably like 18mil per.

Fitz = maybe 35th - 40th best QB in the league.

Wilk = top 5 DE.

[Rangers9]

I said that I don't think the Jets want to give Wilk the kind of a long term contract that he wants. Which is going to be a lot more than 15 plus million. It'll be over 40 mil guaranteed. And that between Wilk and Revis and that's for 2016 they will make about 33 mil or around 1/5 of your cap. We don't really have other players in that category. Marshall is making about 9 mil and he's worth it. Look we paid that stiff Tone over 10 mil and Marshall's the impact player. Decker is in the 7's and to me it's fair. I think that your Qb rates over a D lineman and I don't think Wilk is top 5 and probably the rest of the league doesn't either. I'm not for giving Fitz the 15 or Wilk either. But they both deserve to get paid. If you offer Wilk below market he'll tell you to go fly a kite like Fitz is doing. And if you claim there's no market for Fitz which isn't true there's also no visible market for Wilk. 

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Question. How did you come up with this "Geno won 4 or less in 66% of his NFL seasons to date" number?

2013 - 8 wins

2014 - 4 wins

2015 - 0 wins

4 or less wins, 66% of his years in the NFL.  

Math.

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

You're SITTING HERE manipulating numbers and words. What you're doing is counting last season as an actual season on his resume, but not counting the the season record.

He was on the team, wasn't he?  Of course last year is on his resume.  

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I see what you're doing. You're a hater bro! 

Yes, math and science, two things you're clearly not a fan of.  Got it.

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

But they both deserve to get paid. If you offer Wilk below market he'll tell you to go fly a kite like Fitz is doing. And if you claim there's no market for Fitz which isn't true there's also no visible market for Wilk. 

I'm beginning to think you're just F-in with us.

Wilk will eventually get his market.  He's not a FA now so teams aren't making offers.  But I'd guess a bunch of teams will be offering 5-6 years at 17-19mil per.

Fitz will also get his market value unless of course he chooses to retire instead.  What that value is?  I don't know, because no teams are bidding.  (Which does mean no market btw.)  But sure as heck won't be close to Wilk's value.

[joewilly12]

53 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I mean do the Jets really want to pay Wilk over 15 mil for 2016. The guy is a good player and pass rusher but what did he have: 64 tackles and 12 sacks. And he's coming off of a broken leg. But what does Mo want. Maybe 15 not for one year but for 5 years or 85 mil or something high like that. And maybe half guaranteed. Would the Patriots give him that. Very doubtful. And there's your cap problems: that and the Revis deal which pays him 17 this year. And you don't have money for a Qb and want to start rookies or Geno Smith. We'll see what happens. But if they let Fitz walk and the team regresses Mac is putting his head on the chopping block. And our fans will gladly cut it off. 

What QB dont the Jets have money for? Please tell us you dont mean Fitzpatrick again its quite obvious this is a business decision and they arent signing Fitzpatrick because he isn't worth the money he's demanding. Move on game over. Get used to Geno Smith or  watch another team play on Sundays. 

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said:

Every Nov and Dec game last year in the Meadowlands the temperature was 50+ degrees and the wind was less than 10 MPH.

Fitz played in near perfect weather conditions the entire season last year.

That won't happen 2 years in a row.

And your point is what? Oh you don't have one as usual.  So  now its Fitz fault he played in fair weather last year and that he's not a good bad weather QB.  Not many are.

[joewilly12]

Just now, Powpow said:

And your point is what? Oh you don't have one as usual.  So  now its Fitz fault he played in fair weather last year and that he's not a good bad weather QB.  Not many are.

He also had the easiest schedule in the NFL to show how good he was and he failed to get us in the playoffs. 

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I'm beginning to think you're just F-in with us.

Wilk will eventually get his market.  He's not a FA now so teams aren't making offers.  But I'd guess a bunch of teams will be offering 5-6 years at 17-19mil per.

Fitz will also get his market value unless of course he chooses to retire instead.  What that value is?  I don't know, because no teams are bidding.  (Which does mean no market btw.)  But sure as heck won't be close to Wilk's value.

Well reports were that the Jets tried to trade him around the draft for less than a 1st round pick and even as part of a trade up and got no interest. And Mac didn't deny that they might trade him. So a team could have traded for him and signed him if they wanted to. And he's not getting anything close to 19 now that's crazy and coming from a guy who doesn't want to pay his Qb over 5.

[Powpow]

4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

He also had the easiest schedule in the NFL to show how good he was and he failed to get us in the playoffs. 

So it was all his fault huh?  How long are you going to beat that dead horse into the ground? If it wasn't for Fitz, this team would have been sniffing the Fins ass for last place.  But of course let's just look at one play instead of the whole picture.  But I guess that's too much to ask since your vision is obscured by the blinders you wear.

[Mike135]

5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Well reports were that the Jets tried to trade him around the draft for less than a 1st round pick and even as part of a trade up and got no interest. And Mac didn't deny that they might trade him. So a team could have traded for him and signed him if they wanted to. And he's not getting anything close to 19 now that's crazy and coming from a guy who doesn't want to pay his Qb over 5.

What did the Giants pay for that DE from Miami?

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, Powpow said:

So it was all his fault huh?  How long are you going to beat that dead horse into the ground? If it wasn't for Fitz, this team would have been sniffing the Fins ass for last place.  But of course let's just look at one play instead of the whole picture.  But I guess that's too much to ask since your vision is obscured by the blinders you wear.

Facts are facts and almost doesn't county when it comes to wins and losses, we finished 10-6 didnt make the playoffs and got a bad draft pick all because Fitz ran around like a fool after winning meaningless games and losing the one that counted the most. 

[Rangers9]

Just now, Mike135 said:

What did the Giants pay for DE from Miami?

Yeah and that was stupid. So was their entire off season esp the Rams corner they signed. The guy isn't even that good. And look how Suh has worked out. But at least both of these teams could pay their Qbs.

[Mike135]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

Yeah and that was stupid. So was their entire off season esp the Rams corner they signed. The guy isn't even that good. And look how Suh has worked out. But at least both of these teams could pay their Qbs.

We are paying our QB.  1.8mil I think it is.  He's still under his rookie deal.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Yeah and that was stupid. So was their entire off season esp the Rams corner they signed. The guy isn't even that good. And look how Suh has worked out. But at least both of these teams could pay their Qbs.

We don't have a QB worth paying. Unless of course Geno,Petty or Hackenberg shine this season. 

[Rangers9]

11 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

We are paying our QB.  1.8mil I think it is.  He's still under his rookie deal.

Ok if you want you can say I don't know what the hell I'm talking about and I wouldn't argue with you. Because I don't I'm just a fan. But you want to pay Wilk 19 mil per for 6 years and get rid of our starting Qb or pay him low backup money. After the guy had a real good year and the coaches and players want him back. And start a guy who's had a poor career and the GM who drafted him was fired. Because he makes under 2 mil. If this is smart then I really don't know what I'm talking about. 

[Powpow]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

We don't have a QB worth paying. Unless of course Geno,Petty or Hackenberg shine this season. 

Now I know you are helpless.