Poll: Fitz vs Geno

[LIJetsFan]

8 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Geno getting ready for the 2016 season. 

I literally LOL'ed...great post!

[Rangers9]

I hope that Fitz signs and they don't announce his salary terms. Since so many of you are so concerned with what he makes then what would you have to bitch about. I'm sure you'd find something. If we win the SB same thing. Some of these guys will say we shouldn't have won it for some reason. That it's all an illusion. Anyways best chance to win one this year and you want to rebuild with a loser. 

[no psls]

On 5/15/2016 at 6:17 PM, flgreen said:

 

 

 

[no psls]

On 5/15/2016 at 9:38 AM, Mike135 said:

@BowlesMovement@Rangers9@BigRy56@JazzyJet@Patriot Killa@mickeyshuler@rkw522@Smashmouth@ljr@Charlie Brown@AFJF@jetsfellow@Bcess@Saul Goodman@Pcola@Warfish@flgreen@GandWFan@Better2bgreenthanblue@slowmoe57@CrazyCarl40@New York Mick@Anthony Jet@Joe Jets fan@Ben Had@no psls@jetfuel

 

 

[Mike135]

34 minutes ago, no psls said:

 

Lol, awesome!

[Jet Fan RI]

37 minutes ago, no psls said:

 

Best sig video I have seen. I block most of them, but not this one. My wife wants to know if we can train our dog to do this.  Thanks!

[jetrider]

4 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Looks like JetNation's drug epidemic is getting even worse.  33% of our fellow fans are afflicted.

And the first guy to vote for Fitz at $7M started a thread about there being "absolutely no reason" to want Fitz back. Go figure.

Pro-Fitzers are so confused they don't believe their own beliefs. 

[Mike135]

18 minutes ago, jetrider said:

And the first guy to vote for Fitz at $7M started a thread about there being "absolutely no reason" to want Fitz back. Go figure.

Pro-Fitzers are so confused they don't believe their own beliefs. 

Ha, hey don't knock 'em.  It's evolution (or rehab).

[slats]

5 hours ago, Powpow said:

How original. And how do you know what their highest offer is? No one does. Last offer was 7 mill. They are in the negotiation stage regardless of what has been said.  They need Fitz for another 2 years unless you want to see them go 3-14 for the next 2 years under a QB who will get destroyed and lose any self confidence they are trying to instill. 

No one, not a single person, is talking about Petty or Hackenberg being two years away today. Petty was a one or two year project when he was drafted, and you have fans here looking for Hackenberg to start this year - like second round picks often do. At most, these guys are a year away from one of them starting for the Jets. That's the Jets plan, and probably a major sticking point in their negotiations. The Jets probably don't want to guarantee a single dollar in 2017, especially now that he's considering a generous $7M/year offer an insult. He's strongly hinting that if he loses his starting job next year, he'd rather quit than take a pay cut. The team has no interest in having money on the books for Fitzpatrick if he's not gonna be here. 

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I'm not afraid to go into the season with Geno as the starter for a single year. The last six games he started, he put up better comp%, int%, passer rating, and dramatically better ypa than Fitz did last year against the league's easiest schedule. I'm all for saving the cap space, especially for a contract as ludicrous as you're proposing, and seeing if Geno can improve under Gailey with Marshall and Forte to throw to. 

Either way, I'm 100% certain they won't go 3-14 the next two years. 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Powpow said:

He's the starter not the backup.  He's earned the job or don't you listen to Mac's sound bites.  Or to Jet players who are totally behind him. 10 mill is fair value. If you'd not like Fitz tough sh*t. He will get it and you can start your wining thread which is inevitable once he's signed. 

Explain to us why given no one is bidding for Fitz other than the Jets, that the Jets need to up their offer?

You know, since we're in a negotiation where we have all of the leverage, why do we need to back down to Fitz and his ridiculous demands?

[Mike135]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Explain to us why given no one is bidding for Fitz other than the Jets, that the Jets need to up their offer?

You know, since we're in a negotiation where we have all of the leverage, why do we need to back down to Fitz and his ridiculous demands?

Maybe Fitz and his agent were betting on public opinion to be his leverage?  Even though no actual knowledgeable football people, with the power to actually pay Fitz, feel he's worth big money, they were betting the Jets had to pay Fitz to keep paying fans happy.

Well it's only a small sample size, but it would seem they were wrong.

Macc (I know you read this board religiously), take a look at these results.  Over 2/3s say to not pay over 7.  You're free to text Fitz's agent @no psls's funny as hell animated gif.

[slats]

6 hours ago, Powpow said:

But the whole problem is that Fitz finally developed into a decent NFL QB. Now he wants to be paid fair market value as a starter.  I don't blame him for not taking less than 10 million.  We don't know what numbers are being thrown out there but Petty or Hack need another 2 years minimum to develop.  Base the contract on performance, games played etc over the 2 year span. fair for both sides. 15 to 20 million like the browns did with RG3.  That's a smart contract by the Browns.  

Fitz is still a free agent as we approach Memorial Day for a reason: his contract demands are not in line with his value. He's not an starting caliber NFL QB, but apparently thinks he is. He and his agent tried to get San Francisco involved, but they were fine with Gabbert and a Colin Kaepernick who just wants out. They actually spoke to Denver, who told him, "hey, thanks for coming, but I think we'll just roll with Mark Sanchez." 

RGIII got the contract he got because he still has potential. He put up better numbers in his rookie year than Fitzpatrick ever has, and he's still just 26 years old. He's being paid for potential future production. The Jets -the only team remotely interested in Fitz as a starter- would like Fitz to be their backup (or off the team) by 2017. Big, huge, tremendous difference that you're just not grasping. 

You also seem to be missing what fair market value means. It's basically what the market is willing to pay. The Jets have the only offer on the table for Fitz, so it's clearly the best offer, and Fitz' options are to take it or retire. Jets would be fools to raise it for a one year bridge at the position. 

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Maybe Fitz and his agent were betting on public opinion to be his leverage?  Even though no actual knowledgeable football people, with the power to actually pay Fitz, feel he's worth big money, they were betting the Jets had to pay Fitz to keep paying fans happy.

Well it's only a small sample size, but it would seem they were wrong.

Macc (I know you read this board religiously), take a look at these results.  Over 2/3s say to not pay over 7.  You're free to text Fitz's agent @no psls's funny as hell animated gif.

I think they were hoping that another team, like a Denver, SF, LA etc would at least explore signing him.  That might have gotten the Jets worried enough to up their offer, if they really want him.  

I'm betting that they're going to go into camp at this point with who they have, watch them play and see what they've got.  Then they can make the decision, is the team better off with Fitz at 7 or so mil or better saving that money and starting one of the other QBs.  

That was the risk Fitz took when he overplayed his hand

[Mike135]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I think they were hoping that another team, like a Denver would at least explore signing him.  That might have gotten the Jets worried enough to up their offer, if they really want him.  

I'm betting that they're going to go into camp at this point with who they have, watch them play and see what they've got.  Then they can make the decision, is the team better off with Fitz at 7 or so mil or better saving that money and starting one of the other QBs.  

That was the risk Fitz took when he overplayed his hand

Completely cool with that.  Though it sucks not knowing for sure, and probably means another couple thousand posts going back and forth on the topic.

If after camp they realize Geno sucks and the Petty/Hack combo won't be ready for at least another year...  I'd even be for paying Fitz 10mil.

Have a feeling it won't turn out that way though.  I'm guessing Geno will impress and the remaining question will be if Petty or Hack can fill the backup role.

[Jet Fan RI]

10 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Maybe Fitz and his agent were betting on public opinion to be his leverage?  Even though no actual knowledgeable football people, with the power to actually pay Fitz, feel he's worth big money, they were betting the Jets had to pay Fitz to keep paying fans happy.

Well it's only a small sample size, but it would seem they were wrong.

Macc (I know you read this board religiously), take a look at these results.  Over 2/3s say to not pay over 7.  You're free to text Fitz's agent @no psls's funny as hell animated gif.

If that's what they think, let's hope they see the results of this poll. Time for a reality check.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Completely cool with that.  Though it sucks not knowing for sure, and probably means another couple thousand posts going back and forth on the topic.

If after camp they realize Geno sucks and the Petty/Hack combo won't be ready for at least another year...  I'd even be for paying Fitz 10mil.

Have a feeling it won't turn out that way.  I'm guessing Geno will impress and the remaining question will be if Petty or Hack can fill the backup role.

Agreed.  I just cant see how Geno cant play at least close enough to what Fitz gave us and save the team 7-10 mil.  

We can miss the playoffs with Geno just as spectacularly as with Fitz.  Only difference is that if we missed the playoffs after Geno tossed 3 4th quarter INTs there would be no excuses made for Geno, they'd want to kill him 

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Agreed.  I just cant see how Geno cant play at least close enough to what Fitz gave us and save the team 7-10 mil.  

We can miss the playoffs with Geno just as spectacularly as with Fitz.  Only difference is that if we missed the playoffs after Geno tossed 3 4th quarter INTs there would be no excuses made for Geno, they'd want to kill him 

Right.  Seems like a brilliant play if it works.  We know the team can free upwards of 10mil if needed.  There's just no need yet.

If required, sign Fitz later.  Otherwise perhaps make the moves to give Wilkerson his deal (or handle any other upcoming contract issues).  

[LIJetsFan]

26 minutes ago, slats said:

Fitz is still a free agent as we approach Memorial Day for a reason: his contract demands are not in line with his value. He's not an starting caliber NFL QB, but apparently thinks he is. He and his agent tried to get San Francisco involved, but they were fine with Gabbert and a Colin Kaepernick who just wants out. They actually spoke to Denver, who told him, "hey, thanks for coming, but I think we'll just roll with Mark Sanchez." 

RGIII got the contract he got because he still has potential. He put up better numbers in his rookie year than Fitzpatrick ever has, and he's still just 26 years old. He's being paid for potential future production. The Jets -the only team remotely interested in Fitz as a starter- would like Fitz to be their backup (or off the team) by 2017. Big, huge, tremendous difference that you're just not grasping. 

You also seem to be missing what fair market value means. It's basically what the market is willing to pay. The Jets have the only offer on the table for Fitz, so it's clearly the best offer, and Fitz' options are to take it or retire. Jets would be fools to raise it for a one year bridge at the position. 

I think what some can't grasp is that Fitz is not a starter.  He would be the starter for this team only because 1. he overachieved last year and 2. our unproven QB roster.  Further, many, for many reasons, think that Geno is not that far behind him.  Disagree about Geno all you want but please stop calling Fitz an NFL starter.  

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Completely cool with that.  Though it sucks not knowing for sure, and probably means another couple thousand posts going back and forth on the topic.

If after camp they realize Geno sucks and the Petty/Hack combo won't be ready for at least another year...  I'd even be for paying Fitz 10mil.

Have a feeling it won't turn out that way though.  I'm guessing Geno will impress and the remaining question will be if Petty or Hack can fill the backup role.

At the end of the day, it'll come down to what they feel Fitz' intangibles are worth to them - because Geno has it over him physically, and should be able to put up similar production. I'd expect a number of bad sacks, turnovers from Geno, but also more ability move the ball downfield when behind in a game. The ability to quick strike a TD. All in all, not a big -if any- difference in wins and losses. 

What Fitz does bring is leadership and professionalism. His teammates seem to love him, whereas with Geno I'm not even sure if they tolerate him. There was an article last year about how Fitz would text Decker and Marshall videos at all hours of plays they should run, things they could do better, etc. That's all good stuff. Geno, on the other hand, has an introverted personality that's never going to be able to have that type of rapport with the team. He's just not wired that way, which I think is his major flaw as a potential NFL starter. I think the whole mentoring thing is overrated, but I'd rather Hackenberg and Petty emulate Fitz' approach to being an NFL QB over Geno's. 

If Fitz remains unsigned during the OTAs, I think the coaches will be looking at those intangibles from Geno just as closely as they look at his grasp of the offense, and accuracy of his throws. If he's been able to grow and develop leadership and a camaraderie with the team, that will significantly hurt Fitz' negotiating stance. But that's still a big if right now  

[LIJetsFan]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

At the end of the day, it'll come down to what they feel Fitz' intangibles are worth to them - because Geno has it over him physically, and should be able to put up similar production. I'd expect a number of bad sacks, turnovers from Geno, but also more ability move the ball downfield when behind in a game. The ability to quick strike a TD. All in all, not a big -if any- difference in wins and losses. 

What Fitz does bring is leadership and professionalism. His teammates seem to love him, whereas with Geno I'm not even sure if they tolerate him. There was an article last year about how Fitz would text Decker and Marshall videos at all hours of plays they should run, things they could do better, etc. That's all good stuff. Geno, on the other hand, has an introverted personality that's never going to be able to have that type of rapport with the team. He's just not wired that way, which I think is his major flaw as a potential NFL starter. I think the whole mentoring thing is overrated, but I'd rather Hackenberg and Petty emulate Fitz' approach to being an NFL QB over Geno's. 

If Fitz remains unsigned during the OTAs, I think the coaches will be looking at those intangibles from Geno just as closely as they look at his grasp of the offense, and accuracy of his throws. If he's been able to grow and develop leadership and a camaraderie with the team, that will significantly hurt Fitz' negotiating stance. But that's still a big if right now  

The bold is on Idzik for drafting him.  Now the hope is that he matures and grows into the role.

[Mike135]

26 minutes ago, slats said:

At the end of the day, it'll come down to what they feel Fitz' intangibles are worth to them - because Geno has it over him physically, and should be able to put up similar production. I'd expect a number of bad sacks, turnovers from Geno, but also more ability move the ball downfield when behind in a game. The ability to quick strike a TD. All in all, not a big -if any- difference in wins and losses. 

What Fitz does bring is leadership and professionalism. His teammates seem to love him, whereas with Geno I'm not even sure if they tolerate him. There was an article last year about how Fitz would text Decker and Marshall videos at all hours of plays they should run, things they could do better, etc. That's all good stuff. Geno, on the other hand, has an introverted personality that's never going to be able to have that type of rapport with the team. He's just not wired that way, which I think is his major flaw as a potential NFL starter. I think the whole mentoring thing is overrated, but I'd rather Hackenberg and Petty emulate Fitz' approach to being an NFL QB over Geno's. 

If Fitz remains unsigned during the OTAs, I think the coaches will be looking at those intangibles from Geno just as closely as they look at his grasp of the offense, and accuracy of his throws. If he's been able to grow and develop leadership and a camaraderie with the team, that will significantly hurt Fitz' negotiating stance. But that's still a big if right now  

Agreed, except it's tough to say "never going to be able to have that type of rapport with the team" about a young guy.  I'm sure we all know guys who were complete idiots in their early 20s and eventually became decent people.

Tough to argue with Fitz's camaraderie, which is what I think is his best quality.  I spent a little time looking for quotes from the long list of Fitz's previous teams in hopes of finding good material to use against Fitz supporters...  no luck at all.  It seems anyone who has ever played with the guy loves him.  Hell, I don't even like pointing out he's just not that good, on the off chance he reads it.  By all accounts, he's a great guy and the ideal teammate! 

Leadership however, is something else entirely different.  All those players from all those teams love him, yet he was still let go many times.

Obviously this isn't war, but many like to relate football to it.  If I'm a soldier, I want a leader who can win.  Even if he is a complete d!ck.  Having a cool dude lead me to my death isn't quite as appealing.

 

[ChuckkieB]

27 minutes ago, slats said:

What Fitz does bring is leadership and professionalism. His teammates seem to love him, whereas with Geno I'm not even sure if they tolerate him. There was an article last year about how Fitz would text Decker and Marshall videos at all hours of plays they should run, things they could do better, etc. That's all good stuff. Geno, on the other hand, has an introverted personality that's never going to be able to have that type of rapport with the team. He's just not wired that way, which I think is his major flaw as a potential NFL starter. I think the whole mentoring thing is overrated, but I'd rather Hackenberg and Petty emulate Fitz' approach to being an NFL QB over Geno's. 

 

THIS! The major difference between Fitz and Geno to me is LEADERSHIP.  Fitz is a leader. His teammates loved him and were willing to run through fire for him.  He created a special camaraderie with the offense.  Leadership is an unteachable quality.  You are a leader or you're not.  Geno is not a leader, and he never will be.  Even if he is able to somehow improve his actual QB skills, his lack of leadership qualities will hold him back from being a successful NFL QB IMO. . 

[joewilly12]

Geno Smith still winning!!!!!

[Powpow]

9 hours ago, slats said:

No one, not a single person, is talking about Petty or Hackenberg being two years away today. Petty was a one or two year project when he was drafted, and you have fans here looking for Hackenberg to start this year - like second round picks often do. At most, these guys are a year away from one of them starting for the Jets. That's the Jets plan, and probably a major sticking point in their negotiations. The Jets probably don't want to guarantee a single dollar in 2017, especially now that he's considering a generous $7M/year offer an insult. He's strongly hinting that if he loses his starting job next year, he'd rather quit than take a pay cut. The team has no interest in having money on the books for Fitzpatrick if he's not gonna be here. 

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I'm not afraid to go into the season with Geno as the starter for a single year. The last six games he started, he put up better comp%, int%, passer rating, and dramatically better ypa than Fitz did last year against the league's easiest schedule. I'm all for saving the cap space, especially for a contract as ludicrous as you're proposing, and seeing if Geno can improve under Gailey with Marshall and Forte to throw to. 

Either way, I'm 100% certain they won't go 3-14 the next two years. 

No one, not a single person, is talking about Petty or Hackenberg being two years away today. Sure there is, me. And in the football world they've been saying the same thing since Hack's been drafted - he will need TIME before he's ready.  And Mac, whose opinion is all that really matters, has stated ad infinitum, that Petty is not even ready to be a backup QB yet.  As far as Hack starting that's just laughable.  The kid's mechanics are more screwed up than Bruce Jenner's sexual identity.  He needs time, at least two years, to relax, learn and progress. Yea you can put him out there as the starter in 2016 and it would be a huge learning curve which could backfire.  I would actually opt for Hack or Petty over handing the job to Geno who I detest.  Under NO circumstances do I ever even want to see Geno take another snap under center for the Jets.  Signing Fitz gives Petty and Hack a mentor they desperately need and gives them time to develop with no pressure.  It also gives the Jets the opportunity to compete.  A 2 year contract is ideal for both sides. What the parameters for it are unknown by anybody.  First year should be around 10 million. Why? When Chase Daniels signed a 7 million deal to be Eagles QB that set the fair market value for a BACKUP QB. Fitz would be the starter and should be paid like one.  Second year is a different story.  Its up to Mac and Fitz to work that out.  If he starts in year two and keeps the job then pay the man. If not, then return to being the backup as originally planned and be paid accordingly and continue mentoring the kids.  Thus make the 2 year contract performance based.   

And your contentions are based on nothing but your opinions.  Your probable opinions.  You have no facts to back it up.  You use the PROBABLY a lot.   That means as far as YOU can tell, not definitely.  At most, these guys are a year away from one of them starting for the Jets. That's the Jets plan, and probably a major sticking point in their negotiations. The Jets probably don't want to guarantee a single dollar in 2017.  Nonsense. You have no idea what the Jets (Mac) is thinking when it comes to Fitz and the future plans of who will be the QB's and when he feels they are ready.  If anything, Mac CONTINUES to desperately plea via the media for Fitz to be reasonable with his demands and return.          

[Powpow]

8 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

I think what some can't grasp is that Fitz is not a starter.  He would be the starter for this team only because 1. he overachieved last year and 2. our unproven QB roster.  Further, many, for many reasons, think that Geno is not that far behind him.  Disagree about Geno all you want but please stop calling Fitz an NFL starter.  

If Fitz is not a starter for this team, what does that make Geno?  A backup? Nah.  Oh yea, a punching bag.

[slats]

55 minutes ago, Powpow said:

As far as Hack starting that's just laughable.  The kid's mechanics are more screwed up than Bruce Jenner's sexual identity.  He needs time, at least two years, to relax, learn and progress. Yea you can put him out there as the starter in 2016 and it would be a huge learning curve which could backfire.  I would actually opt for Hack or Petty over handing the job to Geno who I detest.  Under NO circumstances do I ever even want to see Geno take another snap under center for the Jets.

This is it in a nutshell. You don't like the Hackenberg pick, you hate Geno Smith, and as a result you'd like them to bid against no one and overpay Fitzpatrick. Your reasoning? The Eagles overpaid a QB or two, so he deserves it. Sorry, but someone else's bad contract doesn't make Fitz worth more. Want a clue as to why that's true? He's still a free agent in May. 

You're correct, I use words like "probably" because I'm not inside the building. Instead, I'm forced to use a little deductive reasoning. However much you don't like the Hackenberg pick, the Jets didn't take him in the second to be a two year project. Right or wrong, they believe he'll be ready to start by the beginning of next season or sooner. They liked Petty enough to slide up a spot to take him last year, and the word at the time was that he'd be a one or two year project. Again, that puts the timetable at the beginning of next year, the latest. Whatever your opinion might be, they were content to go into last season with Petty as the primary backup. I think they think he's more ready than you think. 

I also need to have a little faith in Maccagnan. In this instance, that he's not as driven by emotion as you are. That he'll make a sound decision for the team both in personnel and financial decisions. Frankly, I think Fitz at $7M for one year (or two or eight with nothing guaranteed beyond the first) is still too much for a weak armed journeyman who lucked into a perfect storm of weak schedule, wounded opponents, and mild weather. The Jets may pay a little more for P.R. reasons, but -dropping the probably here- they don't want any guaranteed money on the books for Fitz in 2017 because they want one of their recent draft picks starting by then. 

55 minutes ago, Powpow said:

If Fitz is not a starter for this team, what does that make Geno?  A backup? Nah.  Oh yea, a punching bag.

Fitz is not a starter for any team. He's currently unemployed. 

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, slats said:

This is it in a nutshell. You don't like the Hackenberg pick, you hate Geno Smith, and as a result you'd like them to bid against no one and overpay Fitzpatrick. Your reasoning? The Eagles overpaid a QB or two, so he deserves it. Sorry, but someone else's bad contract doesn't make Fitz worth more. Want a clue as to why that's true? He's still a free agent in May. 

You're correct, I use words like "probably" because I'm not inside the building. Instead, I'm forced to use a little deductive reasoning. However much you don't like the Hackenberg pick, the Jets didn't take him in the second to be a two year project. Right or wrong, they believe he'll be ready to start by the beginning of next season or sooner. They liked Petty enough to slide up a spot to take him last year, and the word at the time was that he'd be a one or two year project. Again, that puts the timetable at the beginning of next year, the latest. Whatever your opinion might be, they were content to go into last season with Petty as the primary backup. I think they think he's more ready than you think. 

I also need to have a little faith in Maccagnan. In this instance, that he's not as driven by emotion as you are. That he'll make a sound decision for the team both in personnel and financial decisions. Frankly, I think Fitz at $7M for one year (or two or eight with nothing guaranteed beyond the first) is still too much for a weak armed journeyman who lucked into a perfect storm of weak schedule, wounded opponents, and mild weather. The Jets may pay a little more for P.R. reasons, but -dropping the probably here- they don't want any guaranteed money on the books for Fitz in 2017 because they want one of their recent draft picks starting by then. 

Actually I do like the Hack pick.  I give Mac some credit for taking a risk on the kid. He has to find a QB for the future of this team.  His upside can be huge if he's retrained.  But that will take time.  Also, it spells curtains for Geno after this year or maybe even before the season opener.  As far as Fitz deserving a higher than 7 mill contract, I was just using the 'fair market value' of the QB position as is being determined by NFL teams.  Bradford 18 miil per year, Osweiller 17 mill, Daniels 7 mill SMH.  Yes, outrageous, but that's the price and its gone up. 10 mill might be a bit much but its reasonable when compared to those 2. And that 10 mill figure is not based on their bad contracts, its based on what Fitz accomplished last year.  Now the 2nd year is the sticking point that has to be ironed out and be flexible.  As you insist, the Jets don't want to pay Fitz big money in 2017.    I agree wholeheartedly.  That's why a 2 year contract that has flexible compensation in 2nd year is imperative.  Fitz would still be a valued asset to the Jets and Hack and Petty even either takes over in 2017.  So you don't like Fitz but how can you discount what he accomplished and write it off to 'mild weather and a weak schedule'.  He played lights out on an incomplete team that had numerous holes and was the main reason they almost made the playoffs.  He took a 4-12 team to 10-6.  Without Fitz this team would have SUCKED.  The players love him, the GM is imploring him to return, most of the fanbase is onboard to bring him back, the football world screams this EVERY DAY.  I think its you who are being swayed by your emotions.  Just say Prozac.   

[slats]

25 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Actually I do like the Hack pick.  I give Mac some credit for taking a risk on the kid. He has to find a QB for the future of this team.  His upside can be huge if he's retrained.  But that will take time.  Also, it spells curtains for Geno after this year or maybe even before the season opener.  As far as Fitz deserving a higher than 7 mill contract, I was just using the 'fair market value' of the QB position as is being determined by NFL teams.  Bradford 18 miil per year, Osweiller 17 mill, Daniels 7 mill SMH.  Yes, outrageous, but that's the price and its gone up. 10 mill might be a bit much but its reasonable when compared to those 2. And that 10 mill figure is not based on their bad contracts, its based on what Fitz accomplished last year.  Now the 2nd year is the sticking point that has to be ironed out and be flexible.  As you insist, the Jets don't want to pay Fitz big money in 2017.    I agree wholeheartedly.  That's why a 2 year contract that has flexible compensation in 2nd year is imperative.  Fitz would still be a valued asset to the Jets and Hack and Petty even either takes over in 2017.  So you don't like Fitz but how can you discount what he accomplished and write it off to 'mild weather and a weak schedule'.  He played lights out on an incomplete team that had numerous holes and was the main reason they almost made the playoffs.  He took a 4-12 team to 10-6.  Without Fitz this team would have SUCKED.  The players love him, the GM is imploring him to return, most of the fanbase is onboard to bring him back, the football world screams this EVERY DAY.  I think its you who are being swayed by your emotions.  Just say Prozac.   

Fitzpatrick was already paid for last year. His next contract, should he sign one, will be based on what the team expects from him. That's how NFL contracts work. 

What Bradford, Osweiller, or Daniels got has no bearing on Fitzpatrick's market value, either. Fitzpatrick is a known quantity, with over a decade in this league. His current offensive coordinator was his head coach when he first earned a big contract, and subsequently failed to live up to it. His value is simply his value, not that of any other QB. This is why he's still a free agent at this late date. He and/or his agent have set their sites way too high for what Fitzpatrick is: a weak-armed, older, high level backup - whether the Jets plan to start him or not.  

And it's not like I dislike him. I'm sure like the rest of the team, I'd like him in person better than Geno. I've brought up Fitzpatrick's name here in years' past as a QB to look at. But I definitely disagree that he played "lights out," or that the Jets would've "SUCKED" without him. There's no emotion in that assessment. Strictly business. I don't believe that Fitzpatrick would bring $10M of value over Geno in 2016. But again, that's probably because I don't attach any emotion to Geno, either. I just don't see Fitzpatrick taking the team to the playoffs, and I don't imagine him playing well in playoff weather if he miraculously did. 

[Powpow]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Fitzpatrick was already paid for last year. His next contract, should he sign one, will be based on what the team expects from him. That's how NFL contracts work. 

What Bradford, Osweiller, or Daniels got has no bearing on Fitzpatrick's market value, either. Fitzpatrick is a known quantity, with over a decade in this league. His current offensive coordinator was his head coach when he first earned a big contract, and subsequently failed to live up to it. His value is simply his value, not that of any other QB. This is why he's still a free agent at this late date. He and/or his agent have set their sites way too high for what Fitzpatrick is: a weak-armed, older, high level backup - whether the Jets plan to start him or not.  

And it's not like I dislike him. I'm sure like the rest of the team, I'd like him in person better than Geno. I've brought up Fitzpatrick's name here in years' past as a QB to look at. But I definitely disagree that he played "lights out," or that the Jets would've "SUCKED" without him. There's no emotion in that assessment. Strictly business. I don't believe that Fitzpatrick would bring $10M of value over Geno in 2016. But again, that's probably because I don't attach any emotion to Geno, either. I just don't see Fitzpatrick taking the team to the playoffs, and I don't imagine him playing well in playoff weather if he miraculously did. 

Contracts are also based on what have you done for me lately.  Fitz made 3 million to be the backup.  At first I was furious that Mac didn't find a better option to replace Geno when he signed on as GM.  But then I thought, his hands are tied.  What choice does Mac have.  Fitz would be a decent back up and eventually take over mid season when Geno implodes.  I gave Mac the luxury to find his QB the following year (Hackenberg).  After all, 2015 was one of the worst drafts for QB's. So a QB for the future would have to wait.  Then Geno implodes  faster than I thought and Fitz comes on and plays very well.  Better than anyone thought. In fact, Geno wont even be put on the field.  He actually takes a an average team and wins 10 games and almost gets them into the playoffs.  Now who wouldn't have signed off on making the playoffs in game 17 if we win?  This is the problem I have. So many underappreciate the season Fitz had and keep harping on his past negatives.  And they don't appreciate what he can offer in the next 2 years to a team that has nothing but a bunch of kids who are nothing but question marks who aren't anywhere ready to take over.  Fitz is no savior, he's a bridge to the future.  If he refuses to bend and take Mac's final offer (which none of us may ever know) then screw it and start Petty and give Hack some playing time. As long as Geno is traded or cut I'd be fine with that.  And yes I am emotional when it comes to the Jets. If Geno starts I want my Prozac back!     

[CrazyCarl40]

19 hours ago, slats said:

 

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I'm not afraid to go into the season with Geno as the starter for a single year. The last six games he started, he put up better comp%, int%, passer rating, and dramatically better ypa than Fitz did last year against the league's easiest schedule. I'm all for saving the cap space, especially for a contract as ludicrous as you're proposing, and seeing if Geno can improve under Gailey with Marshall and Forte to throw to. 

Still twisting and murdering the stats to tell your tale, eh? How about you compare The last 6 games of 2015 during a playoff run versus the last 6 games of playing out the string in 2014. Show me the Fitz and Geno numbers. Or show me last full season of Geno compared to the last full season for Fitz. Go on. Let's see how they stack up when you do it honestly. 

[Colgateman]

33 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Still twisting and murdering the stats to tell your tale, eh? How about you compare The last 6 games of 2015 during a playoff run versus the last 6 games of playing out the string in 2014. Show me the Fitz and Geno numbers. Or show me last full season of Geno compared to the last full season for Fitz. Go on. Let's see how they stack up when you do it honestly. 

Fitz was also bottom ten or 15 in every stat category except for TDs and I believe yards. And was top 5 in interceptions. The same as geno was, except for the fact that geno had a way worst supporting cast and Fitzpatrick played with a top 3 WR duo and an easy schedule and couldn't get it done.

I love how you keep trying to drool over 31 touchdowns, it's hilarious 

[CrazyCarl40]

20 hours ago, slats said:

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I'm not afraid to go into the season with Geno as the starter for a single year. The last six games he started, he put up better comp%, int%, passer rating, and dramatically better ypa than Fitz did last year against the league's easiest schedule. I'm all for saving the cap space, especially for a contract as ludicrous as you're proposing, and seeing if Geno can improve under Gailey with Marshall and Forte to throw to. 

Okay, since you're being coy or lazy I'll do it.

Last 6 games played at the end of their year:

Geno (2014): 2-4 Record, 88/134 (65%) 1155 yards passing 5 TDs 3 INTs (Buffalo, Miami x2, NE, Tenn. Minn.)

Fitz (2015): 5-1 record, 147/240 (61%) 1706 yards passing 15 TDs 4 INTs (Miami, NYG, Tenn., NE, Buffalo, Dallas)

Boy, when you lay it all out like that, it really shows you how wrong you are.

 

[slats]

4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Still twisting and murdering the stats to tell your tale, eh? How about you compare The last 6 games of 2015 during a playoff run versus the last 6 games of playing out the string in 2014. Show me the Fitz and Geno numbers. Or show me last full season of Geno compared to the last full season for Fitz. Go on. Let's see how they stack up when you do it honestly. 

I'm not making any wild claims here. It's pretty simple. I'm just pointing out that Geno responded well to being benched last season. He came back and, except for TD%, put up better numbers across the board over those six games than Fitz put up in 2015. This on a 4-12 team, with Rex, Mornhinweg, and no Marshall. In fact not much of anything, as this was the end of the Idzik austerity. Without the luxury of playing the league's easiest schedule. 

This doesn't mean I think Geno is or will be better than Fitz (although that's not a high bar), just that he's capable of playing decently. Now, after a year on the bench learning Gailey's more QB friendly offense, maybe picking up some valuable mentoring from Fitzpatrick, surrounded by a much better cast on offense with Marshall and Forte, and a much better defense that may put him on some short fields (something that did not happen under Rex, especially towards the end) that he would probably demonstrate some real improvement. Whereas, with Fitz, I'm extremely confident that we've seen his ceiling. 

I see this as a bridge year to one of the kids, and I'd rather save the $7-10M in cap space during it and roll with Geno. I don't think the drop off will be severe, if there is a drop off at all. 

[Augustiniak]

9 minutes ago, slats said:

I'm not making any wild claims here. It's pretty simple. I'm just pointing out that Geno responded well to being benched last season. He came back and, except for TD%, put up better numbers across the board over those six games than Fitz put up in 2015. This on a 4-12 team, with Rex, Mornhinweg, and no Marshall. In fact not much of anything, as this was the end of the Idzik austerity. Without the luxury of playing the league's easiest schedule. 

This doesn't mean I think Geno is or will be better than Fitz (although that's not a high bar), just that he's capable of playing decently. Now, after a year on the bench learning Gailey's more QB friendly offense, maybe picking up some valuable mentoring from Fitzpatrick, surrounded by a much better cast on offense with Marshall and Forte, and a much better defense that may put him on some short fields (something that did not happen under Rex, especially towards the end) that he would probably demonstrate some real improvement. Whereas, with Fitz, I'm extremely confident that we've seen his ceiling. 

I see this as a bridge year to one of the kids, and I'd rather save the $7-10M in cap space during it and roll with Geno. I don't think the drop off will be severe, if there is a drop off at all. 

i don't see why it's a given that geno automatically beats out petty.  even if fitz returns and is named the starter, there will still be a great battle for the backup qb, and that's assuming they would even keep geno since hack is the 3rd string to start out, probably.  petty may not be able to have a shot at beating out fitz this year, but i doubt he thinks he's behind geno anymore.

[slats]

3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Okay, since you're being coy or lazy I'll do it.

Last 6 games played at the end of their year:

Geno (2014): 2-4 Record, 88/134 (65%) 1155 yards passing 5 TDs 3 INTs (Buffalo, Miami x2, NE, Tenn. Minn.)

Fitz (2015): 5-1 record, 147/240 (61%) 1706 yards passing 15 TDs 4 INTs (Miami, NYG, Tenn., NE, Buffalo, Dallas)

Boy, when you lay it all out like that, it really shows you how wrong you are.

 

First, lol. I'm a shift worker. I wasn't being coy, I was being asleep. 

But I'm pretty sure you understand that this isn't honest, either. This doesn't take into account how much weaker the team was the year before. How weak the competition was last year. How much more favorable Gailey's offense is to Mornhinweg's. Never mind Rex's game playing with Idzik, particularly basically not throwing the ball at all in the first game against the fish. There was a lot of dysfunction going on with that team, and Geno put together a nice little run despite it. 

And even with your advantage of getting to cherry pick a five game winning streak, Fitz still only put up a 7.1 ypa during that stretch. Geno put up an 8.6 during his. While I'd expect some continued bone-headedness from Geno, frankly I trust him more to push the ball down the field when he has to because, unlike Fitz, he actually has an NFL arm. What's Fitz' career winning percentage when his defense gives up 21 points? Something like 10%, right?