Poll: Fitz vs Geno

[slats]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i don't see why it's a given that geno automatically beats out petty.  even if fitz returns and is named the starter, there will still be a great battle for the backup qb, and that's assuming they would even keep geno since hack is the 3rd string to start out, probably.  petty may not be able to have a shot at beating out fitz this year, but i doubt he thinks he's behind geno anymore.

Petty is behind Geno and holding on for dear life to stay ahead of Hackenberg right now. I think that next year, there could be a legitimate QB competition between the youngsters. This year, though, one of them would really have to blow the doors off in practice (a la Russell Wilson) to move ahead of Geno. In fact, if Fitz comes back, Petty's roster spot could be in jeopardy. Just another reason to save the money. 

 

 

 

 

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

Petty is behind Geno and holding on for dear life to stay ahead of Hackenberg right now. I think that next year, there could be a legitimate QB competition between the youngsters. This year, though, one of them would really have to blow the doors off in practice (a la Russell Wilson) to move ahead of Geno. In fact, if Fitz comes back, Petty's roster spot could be in jeopardy. Just another reason to save the money. 

 

 

 

 

here's the thing.  geno is not going to improve much more.  he lacks the instincts and situational awareness to become even an average nfl starter.  he has 42 turnovers in 31 games.  we don't know how much petty will improve, but geno's ceiling isn't very high. 

[Rangers9]

If you're looking to save money you don't save it at the Qb position. This is where you overspend. No intelligent org would start Geno Smith unless there is an injury to Fitz. There was last year and Bowles still started Fitz even though he had a broken thumb.  And look at salaries of Qbs in the NFL. It's very high. I love these amateur GMs and capologists. 

[ljr]

20 minutes ago, slats said:

First, lol. I'm a shift worker. I wasn't being coy, I was being asleep. 

But I'm pretty sure you understand that this isn't honest, either. This doesn't take into account how much weaker the team was the year before. How weak the competition was last year. How much more favorable Gailey's offense is to Mornhinweg's. Never mind Rex's game playing with Idzik, particularly basically not throwing the ball at all in the first game against the fish. There was a lot of dysfunction going on with that team, and Geno put together a nice little run despite it. 

And even with your advantage of getting to cherry pick a five game winning streak, Fitz still only put up a 7.1 ypa during that stretch. Geno put up an 8.6 during his. While I'd expect some continued bone-headedness from Geno, frankly I trust him more to push the ball down the field when he has to because, unlike Fitz, he actually has an NFL arm. What's Fitz' career winning percentage when his defense gives up 21 points? Something like 10%, right?

Geno has Jeff George syndrome ... Million dollar arm (I'm being kind) but a 10 cent head (still being kind)

[ljr]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

Petty is behind Geno and holding on for dear life to stay ahead of Hackenberg right now. I think that next year, there could be a legitimate QB competition between the youngsters. This year, though, one of them would really have to blow the doors off in practice (a la Russell Wilson) to move ahead of Geno. In fact, if Fitz comes back, Petty's roster spot could be in jeopardy. Just another reason to save the money. 

 

 

 

 

I buy into the idea that Geno's primary service right now is as a negotiating tactic to bring Fitz back at as low of a pricetag as possible.

when the cut occurs after that is worked out I agree with Augustiniak &  the others saying that it will be Geno and not Petty who is cut.

 

[slats]

16 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

here's the thing.  geno is not going to improve much more.  he lacks the instincts and situational awareness to become even an average nfl starter.  he has 42 turnovers in 31 games.  we don't know how much petty will improve, but geno's ceiling isn't very high. 

For a quick comparison, I looked up Fitzpatrick's early numbers. I'm using 36 games because I don't feel like breaking down game logs to make it exact. So in Fitz' first 36 games, he threw 42 interceptions and fumbled 25 times (don't have a number of how many he lost, and don't care). 

According to some, he's now a conquering hero who deserves north of $10M/year. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, slats said:

For a quick comparison, I looked up Fitzpatrck's early numbers. I'm using 36 games because I don't feel like breaking down game logs to make it exact. So in Fitz' first 36 games, he threw 42 interceptions and fumbled 25 times (don't have a number of how many he lost, and don't care). 

According to some, he's now a conquering hero who deserves north of $10M/year. 

and that's why fitz hasn't stayed with a team for long.  he's a journeyman qb, like sanchez is now, and like geno is going to be.  

i don't see any one thing geno brings to the table besides a decent arm.  he's not tall, he's thin, has no pocket awareness, can't read a defense, lacks situational awareness, does not have the respect of his teammates and can't figure out the time on the west coast.  i imagine petty has at least some of these attributes down already.

 

[slats]

14 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

If you're looking to save money you don't save it at the Qb position. This is where you overspend. No intelligent org would start Geno Smith unless there is an injury to Fitz. There was last year and Bowles still started Fitz even though he had a broken thumb.  And look at salaries of Qbs in the NFL. It's very high. I love these amateur GMs and capologists. 

Yeah, you spend it on a guy who's still a free agent in May, who doesn't have a single team other than Jets even considering using him as a starter. That's how the pros do it. 

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

For a quick comparison, I looked up Fitzpatrick's early numbers. I'm using 36 games because I don't feel like breaking down game logs to make it exact. So in Fitz' first 36 games, he threw 42 interceptions and fumbled 25 times (don't have a number of how many he lost, and don't care). 

According to some, he's now a conquering hero who deserves north of $10M/year. 

Look we're not evaluating Fitz on his earlier career we're basically seeing what he's done recently and that is pretty good. He's played well with several teams in the past few years not just with us. As for Geno I don't cut him. He should be our number two. There is no way you start Hack or Petty in 2016. Unless you think it's a rebuilding year which it isn't.

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, you spend it on a guy who's still a free agent in May, who doesn't have a single team other than Jets even considering using him as a starter. That's how the pros do it. 

He could sign in a minute if he wanted to. And he's the starter. But they are in the process of negotiating a deal. All along the GM has said he wants him back. There is an offer on the table. 

[Colgateman]

27 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look we're not evaluating Fitz on his earlier career we're basically seeing what he's done recently and that is pretty good. He's played well with several teams in the past few years not just with us. As for Geno I don't cut him. He should be our number two. There is no way you start Hack or Petty in 2016. Unless you think it's a rebuilding year which it isn't.

But yet, you do that to Geno.

 

all you guys keep on proving how one sided and ignorant you are. It's very sad to be such a one dimensional thinker, and can't accept the truth.

[Powpow]

56 minutes ago, slats said:

Petty is behind Geno and holding on for dear life to stay ahead of Hackenberg right now. I think that next year, there could be a legitimate QB competition between the youngsters. This year, though, one of them would really have to blow the doors off in practice (a la Russell Wilson) to move ahead of Geno. In fact, if Fitz comes back, Petty's roster spot could be in jeopardy. Just another reason to save the money. 

 

 

 

 

So when Fitz returns, which he will, what's the QB order going to look like? I am not aware of what can occur if Petty is placed on the practice squad.  My guess it would go Fitz, Geno, Hack.  Does that jeopardize Petty being picked up by another team? Does Mac want to take that chance?  And to piggy back on an another poster's point, is there a viable competition/opportunity for Petty or Hack to be the backup.  What happens to Geno then? 

[Powpow]

30 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He could sign in a minute if he wanted to. And he's the starter. But they are in the process of negotiating a deal. All along the GM has said he wants him back. There is an offer on the table. 

Fitz will sign the deal at noon on Sept 11, 2016 and come running out the tunnel to join his teammates.

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

But yet, you do that to Geno.

 

all you guys keep on proving how one sided and ignorant you are. It's very sad to be such a one dimensional thinker, and can't accept the truth.

Geno hasn't had any success in his career. And he's had 29 starts. OK you can extract a few positives he's not been totally incompetent. But he doesn't deserve the starting job with the Jets it would be a big step backwards. 

[Rangers9]

7 minutes ago, Powpow said:

So when Fitz returns, which he will, what's the QB order going to look like? I am not aware of what can occur if Petty is placed on the practice squad.  My guess it would go Fitz, Geno, Hack.  Does that jeopardize Petty being picked up by another team? Does Mac want to take that chance?  And to piggy back on an another poster's point, is there a viable competition/opportunity for Petty or Hack to be the backup.  What happens to Geno then? 

They could IR Petty. It will probably depend on training camp. If he looks good they will keep him. But if just fair and no improvement you can take a chance and cut him. And then PS him if you want to. Look Mac cut two of his draft picks in 2015 (out of 6) no one picked them up and he PS'd them. 

[Powpow]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

They could IR Petty. It will probably depend on training camp. If he looks good they will keep him. But if just fair and no improvement you can take a chance and cut him. And then PS him if you want to. Look Mac cut two of his draft picks in 2015 (out of 6) no one picked them up and he PS'd them. 

So cant he just put Petty on the PS without cutting him? Is he willing to do that since Petty was HIS pick. Geno has just one year left on his contract.  He is history after this year.  And if Petty 'looks good' then what?  I like Petty. I believe he has far more upside than the prima donna knucklehead people continue to have blind faith in.

[slats]

12 minutes ago, Powpow said:

So when Fitz returns, which he will, what's the QB order going to look like? I am not aware of what can occur if Petty is placed on the practice squad.  My guess it would go Fitz, Geno, Hack.  Does that jeopardize Petty being picked up by another team? Does Mac want to take that chance?  And to piggy back on an another poster's point, is there a viable competition/opportunity for Petty or Hack to be the backup.  What happens to Geno then? 

They'd have to cut Petty, then resign him to their practice squad after he clears waivers. Anyone willing to add him to their own 53 man roster could then poach him. He could also suffer a mysterious injury, and be placed on the IR. I harbor no illusions, Geno's roster spot would obviously be in jeopardy, too. Basically coming down to how they felt about Geno's value as a backup vs. Petty's potential at that point. 

[Mike135]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

here's the thing.  geno is not going to improve much more.  he lacks the instincts and situational awareness to become even an average nfl starter.  he has 42 turnovers in 31 games.  we don't know how much petty will improve, but geno's ceiling isn't very high. 

Well damn man.  Why didn't you tell me that months ago?  Coulda saved me 100s of posts and this poll.  Now that I know Geno cannot improve at all, screw him.  I'd like to change my vote to the first Fitz option.

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Well damn man.  Why didn't you tell me that months ago?  Coulda saved me 100s of posts and this poll.  Now that I know Geno cannot improve at all, screw him.  I'd like to change my vote to the first Fitz option.

Someone must have been wrong on Fitzpatrick, given he finally developed and is now a franchise QB 11 years in the making. 

[Powpow]

12 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Well damn man.  Why didn't you tell me that months ago?  Coulda saved me 100s of posts and this poll.  Now that I know Geno cannot improve at all, screw him.  I'd like to change my vote to the first Fitz option.

I Knew you were suffering from Genoitis.

[Rangers9]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Someone must have been wrong on Fitzpatrick, given he finally developed and is now a franchise QB 11 years in the making. 

He's not a franchise Qb. He doesn't have a history of enough accomplishishments to imo to be put in that category. And he shouldn't be paid like one. But he was our starter in 2015 and had a good year and they want him back. The bottom line is that the market for starters is high. Too rich for your blood then settle for a backup like Geno. 

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

The bottom line is that the market for starters is high. 

Yes it is.

The market for Fitz is?

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

The bottom line is that the market for starters is high. 

 

Just now, Mike135 said:

Yes it is.

The market for Fitz is?

Acceptable answers would be:

1. Nonexistent 
2. Very little 
3. Absolute $hit
4. Lol, Fitz?  Market?

[Rangers9]

5 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Yes it is.

The market for Fitz is?

Look, Fitz was and is our starter according to our head coach. If the market for franchise Qbs was 10 mil then you pay Fitz 5 like you want. But the market is 20 so 10 isn't astronomical it's reasonable. 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look, Fitz was and is our starter according to our head coach. If the market for franchise Qbs was 10 mil then you pay Fitz 5 like you want. But the market is 20 so 10 isn't astronomical it's reasonable. 

No one else is offering Fitz either $10M/year or a starting job. The idea that the Jets should up their current offer, whatever it is, because other teams have overpaid QBs is ridiculous. We're talking about a QB who's been a free agent for months. Guys like Osweiler and Daniel were in demand, and signed accordingly. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not in demand, and hasn't been all off season. His value is not that of an NFL starter, it's that of a street free agent in May. 

Fitz' choices are to take what the Jets are offering or retire. He's free to do whichever he wants, afaic. 

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look, Fitz was and is our starter according to our head coach. If the market for franchise Qbs was 10 mil then you pay Fitz 5 like you want. But the market is 20 so 10 isn't astronomical it's reasonable. 

The market for a franchise QB is 20 mil?  Lol

and Fitz gets 10 because?  You're charitable?  Every team should just throw money away?  Our GM is an idiot?  

Theres no scale for QBs.  You offer what you think he's worth.  Not what some fan thinks is fair.  Macc and the Jets think their offer is fair.  There is no need to up the offer, he has no other option.  And he's not retiring.  If he's ready to retire he's done anyway

[Villain The Foe]

35 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He's not a franchise Qb. He doesn't have a history of enough accomplishishments to imo to be put in that category. And he shouldn't be paid like one. But he was our starter in 2015 and had a good year and they want him back. The bottom line is that the market for starters is high. Too rich for your blood then settle for a backup like Geno. 

That was the joke. A guy having an 11 year career with one good season (for being Ryan Fitzpatrick) yet all of this hoopla around him even though he's not a franchise QB and would be a back up for any other team in the league. 

[JetBlue]

On 5/18/2016 at 1:09 PM, ChuckkieB said:

THIS! The major difference between Fitz and Geno to me is LEADERSHIP.  Fitz is a leader. His teammates loved him and were willing to run through fire for him.  He created a special camaraderie with the offense.  Leadership is an unteachable quality.  You are a leader or you're not.  Geno is not a leader, and he never will be.  Even if he is able to somehow improve his actual QB skills, his lack of leadership qualities will hold him back from being a successful NFL QB IMO. . 

LEADERSHIP??? ARE YOU SERIOUS???  

How many playoffs has he LED his teams to in the last 11 years?  Hell, last year was the first year he LED his team to more than 6 wins.   Geno, lack of leadership and all, STILL WON 8 GAMES AS A ROOKIE..... let me say that again; HE WON 8 GAMES AS A ROOKIE!! Now we can call it a fluke or lucky or what ever you want, but he also has never played on a team as good as last years team that won 10 games.

It is like people forget that Geno is in the final year of his contract; the future belongs to Hack or Petty.   If he falls on his face then replace him with one of those two.  If he plays well, perhaps we can get a compensatory pick when he signs elsewhere.   I bet that is how the GM is looking at this scenario.... 

Why do we want to pay more than 7 million for Fitzs "Leadership" when we have an 11 year track record of mediocrity with Fitz and is he not part of the future? 

[ChuckkieB]

8 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

LEADERSHIP??? ARE YOU SERIOUS???  

How many playoffs has he LED his teams to in the last 11 years?  Hell, last year was the first year he LED his team to more than 6 wins.   Geno, lack of leadership and all, STILL WON 8 GAMES AS A ROOKIE..... let me say that again; HE WON 8 GAMES AS A ROOKIE!! Now we can call it a fluke or lucky or what ever you want, but he also has never played on a team as good as last years team that won 10 games.

It is like people forget that Geno is in the final year of his contract; the future belongs to Hack or Petty.   If he falls on his face then replace him with one of those two.  If he plays well, perhaps we can get a compensatory pick when he signs elsewhere.   I bet that is how the GM is looking at this scenario.... 

Why do we want to pay more than 7 million for Fitzs "Leadership" when we have an 11 year track record of mediocrity with Fitz and is he not part of the future? 

Let me be clear - I do NOT want Fitz to be resigned. I would rather see one of the young QB's (not named Geno) take the reigns and see what we have.  Regarding leadership - you can be a great leader and be on a sh*tty team and not win many games.  Losing has to do with performance, not leadership.  

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

LEADERSHIP??? ARE YOU SERIOUS???  

How many playoffs has he LED his teams to in the last 11 years?

How many playoffs has Geno led his team to?

You do get that criticism is generally only valid if the alternative option has actually done what you're complaining the primary option hasn't.

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Hell, last year was the first year he LED his team to more than 6 wins.   Geno, lack of leadership and all, STILL WON 8 GAMES AS A ROOKIE.

Then he won 4 games as a 2nd year.

Then he was benched due to one of the most embarrassing "injuries" in NFL QB History.

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Now we can call it a fluke or lucky or what ever you want

I call it the same thing I call Sanchez's two playoff seasons, a bad QB carried by an elite Defense.

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

, but he also has never played on a team as good as last years team that won 10 games.

You're right, he played on a team that had 95% of the same players Fitz had, with the specific addition of Brandon Marshal to it.

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

It is like people forget that Geno is in the final year of his contract; the future belongs to Hack or Petty.

That's still TBD.

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

 If he falls on his face then replace him with one of those two.

Translation:  Sacrifice 2016 before it begins.  I think that may be a tough sell to the players, tbqh.

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

 If he plays well, perhaps we can get a compensatory pick when he signs elsewhere.

lol.

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

  I bet that is how the GM is looking at this scenario.... 

No, I think our GM is looking at the salary cap, and Fitz wanting alot more than the team can afford to pay.  The Cap is the best and most clear-cut argument against resigning Fitzpatrick.

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Why do we want to pay more than 7 million for Fitzs "Leadership" when we have an 11 year track record of mediocrity with Fitz and is he not part of the future? 

Because some of us believe that Fitz will do better than Geno in 2016, while also being a superior mentor to Petty and Hack, our presumed (TDB) future at QB. 

But with that said, most of us "Fitz Fans" also have an upper limit we'd be winning to pay, and that limit is not 16 million for ANY Fitz Fan I am aware of.  More like 9 or 10 max for most of us.  And that only if the cap can be worked to make it happen without major loss.

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

The market for a franchise QB is 20 mil?  Lol

and Fitz gets 10 because?  You're charitable?  Every team should just throw money away?  Our GM is an idiot?  

Theres no scale for QBs.  You offer what you think he's worth.  Not what some fan thinks is fair.  Macc and the Jets think their offer is fair.  There is no need to up the offer, he has no other option.  And he's not retiring.  If he's ready to retire he's done anyway

Why don't you look at the list of what Qbs are making before you make statements. I mean on this board Andy Dalton would be run out of town because of zero playoff wins and erratic play at times. And he's making 16 mil per. You guys don't make the salary range the market does. And it's a high market. 

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

How many playoffs has Geno led his team to?

You do get that criticism is generally only valid if the alternative option has actually done what you're complaining the primary option hasn't.

Then he won 4 games as a 2nd year.

Then he was benched due to one of the most embarrassing "injuries" in NFL QB History.

I call it the same thing I call Sanchez's two playoff seasons, a bad QB carried by an elite Defense.

You're right, he played on a team that had 95% of the same players Fitz had, with the specific addition of Brandon Marshal to it.

That's still TBD.

Translation:  Sacrifice 2016 before it begins.  I think that may be a tough sell to the players, tbqh.

lol.

No, I think our GM is looking at the salary cap, and Fitz wanting alot more than the team can afford to pay.  The Cap is the best and most clear-cut argument against resigning Fitzpatrick.

Because some of us believe that Fitz will do better than Geno in 2016, while also being a superior mentor to Petty and Hack, our presumed (TDB) future at QB. 

But with that said, most of us "Fitz Fans" also have an upper limit we'd be winning to pay, and that limit is not 16 million for ANY Fitz Fan I am aware of.  More like 9 or 10 max for most of us.  And that only if the cap can be worked to make it happen without major loss.

Geno has had one full season and he helped us get close to the playoffs w/ far less talent than Fitz helped us get close to.

 

Fitz has won 4 or fewer games as a starter 4 times, 6 or fewer 7 times.

 

Mark was carried by nothing, put him on 2015 Jets and we aren't sitting at home in January.  the D led those teams but the QB made big plays and didn't melt under pressure like Fitz.

 

will Fitz do better than geno? maybe, is it worth the extra money? probably not.  we can miss the playoffs w/ and w/o Fitz.  

 

I want Fitz back at the right price but if he's not back we won't drop off much w/ Geno.

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Why don't you look at the list of what Qbs are making before you make statements. I mean on this board Andy Dalton would be run out of town because of zero playoff wins and erratic play at times. And he's making 16 mil per. You guys don't make the salary range the market does. And it's a high market. 

Dalton has been to the playoffs every year of his career(didn't play last year b/c he as hurt but he led them there).

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Why don't you look at the list of what Qbs are making before you make statements. I mean on this board Andy Dalton would be run out of town because of zero playoff wins and erratic play at times. And he's making 16 mil per. You guys don't make the salary range the market does. And it's a high market. 

Give me the list of QBs.  Then compare those QBs to Fitz.  How many never won more than 6 games up until a year ago, never have made the playoffs, are 33, have a weaker arm than Fitz.  How's that list?  Please don't compare Fitz to a Dalton. Fitz was never as good as Dalton.  Dalton at least makes the playoffs, doesn't shlt the bed to keep his team out of the playoffs.  And Dalton is young, still is getting better.  

I'd gladly pay Dalton 16 mil right now.  Over the 10 mil you want to give Fitz to watch him stumble on his way to missing the playoffs.  Again.  I'd happily make my playoff reservations right now, hopefully a few home games to enjoy.  

Fitz, according to people like Polian, has peaked and will fade.  Fast. 

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Dalton has been to the playoffs every year of his career(didn't play last year b/c he as hurt but he led them there).

He was ripped a lot as was their HC for never winning a playoff game. I think he's a good Qb but on this board he would be buried.