in fairness to Hack, other Rooks unimpressive.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, JiF said:

Well, I disagree.  They were the consensus #1 and #2 picks not only the year they came out but before their final seasons in the NCAA.

Winston was being compared to Luck from an Football smarts perspective.  Mariota had a few concerns, namely adjusting to an NFL offense...that was pretty much it but yeah for that maybe he wasnt/isnt a cant miss...but damn close.

Either way, my point remains.  They werent predraft hype players like Goff, Wentz and Lynch.  There were consensus #1 overall caliber players their entire college career.

 

Being the consensus #1 pick as a QB doesn't mean someone is seen as a "can't miss" prospect. Mariota was not the consensus #2 pick in the country until shortly before the draft. I remember him commonly (if not usually) projected between 5-10 overall before that.

Agree on those 3 from this past year, though. At one point I think Goff was not in the top 10, then maybe he was going to go #8, then he goes #1. Lynch is a little different than those two because of where he was drafted. There's a wide chasm between #1/#2 and #26.

The risk vs reward for a QB is different than it used to be, though. QB is not only so important, but the top picks don't get $12M/year anymore. Even in whiffing on the pick, while still a disaster, a team isn't also financially ruined where they can't as easily afford a replacement. 

[AFJF]

8 hours ago, JiF said:

Reality is, none of those guys were sh*t till the predraft hype started.  Nobody thought Goff was a #1 overall pick and who the **** is Carson Wentz?  Stupid to mortgage the future for guys like that and both teams will pay in the long run for it.  And Lynch is in that same boat...though Denver didnt mortgage the future, but he was pure predraft hype currently getting beat out by a UDFA.

Hack was a household name wayyyyy before these guys.  And judging him on last is just silly.  Everything around him was pure sh*t.  He may suck but using last nights game as the suck-o-meter is moronic. 

 

I heard about Wentz some time around week 2 from one of the scouts who shoots out tweets about players who stand out on film review.  This was wayyyyyy before he was a "big name" prospect.  It wasn't until much later in the season I started hearing others talk about him, but there were some (or at least one) evaluator singing his praises as early as September (if not sooner, this is all of the top of my head)

[New York Mick]

8 hours ago, JiF said:

Winston?  Absolutely was a cant miss.  The only question mark was his character concerns.  Mariota...he had some question marks but he wasnt created by predraft hype. These were the 2 clear cut best players in college Football.

There was nothing elite about Goff, Wentz or Lynch.  Nothing.  IMO those teams were desperate and mortgaged the future for prospect who were extremely flawed.  That's a risk I wouldnt be willing to take.  I much prefer Mac's approach.  Even if Hack sucks...at least he still added what looks like a damn good haul of talent. 

 

Winston was good at FSU because the players around him. He'll never be anything but average at best. The only way he makes it to the SB is by stealing a ticket.

[32EBoozer]

Just now, New York Mick said:

Winston was good at FSU because the players around him. He'll never be anything but average at best. The only way he makes it to the SB is by stealing a ticket.

He had a pretty good 1st year.

I think he can be good if they get another outside threat to pair with Evans. Jackson getting long in the tooth

Martin and Simms are good @ catching the ball

He'll put up Fitz #'s

[YankeeJet22]

5 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Its pretty simple. He's had limited, basically non existent reps in camp. There were only so many plays they could call him to run. He had to play longer than expected.

As somebody else stated, it looked like they kept running the same play over and over again. This is one of the problems of having 4 QB's. Limited reps for development. 

I bolded everything because you are spot on.  He'll be so much better with more reps.

[drdetroit]

Goff and Lynch are both going to be busts.

 

only qb's I liked in this draft were Wentz and Cardale

[drdetroit]

26 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Winston was good at FSU because the players around him. He'll never be anything but average at best. The only way he makes it to the SB is by stealing a ticket.

You have no idea how wrong you are 

[Mogglez]

9 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

No doubt about that as the only rookie Qb that looks ready is Dak Prescott.   ( has been very impressive) .    Now call me a homer but I think in time Connor Cook will be a very good Qb in this league.( for some other team) .      He isn't anywhere close to where Prescott is, ( a good year away) but like Matt Millen said he has the it factor at Qb.  He knows how to play, handles pressure well,  and has a quick release.   
 

Cook and Hack were my two favorite "post 1st round" guys.  Cook, to me, has a Derek Anderson-Kevin Colb floor and a Jay Cutler-Kirk Cousins-Joe Flacco ( <--maxed out ) ceiling.  Certainly not bad.  

For the record, I'd avoid Matt Millen's opinion on QB's, for the most part, lol.  In this case though, I'd agree with him. 

Hack, on the other hand, has limitless potential.  However, his floor is a "depths of hell" type of low.  As long as it wasn't a first round pick, I had no issues taking Christian because the reward could be massive and moving on from a second rounder isn't as hard as it used to be, should he fail to develop. You don't see that brain and those physical talents in the same body that often.  If you can fix him up mechanically, and they will work on that, then the payoff can be huge. 

Last week the circlejerk squad, that wants so badly to be able to say: "I told you so", was reaaaaaal quiet.  Hack has his first "rookie game" last night and they're back with an industrial-sized bottle of lube and wrist braces.  Last night wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.  He has to learn from it, continue to work, and ultimately improve.  If he continues to struggle next year with no visible improvement, then it's time to worry about his ability to become "the guy".  IF that's the case, you won't see me sit here and make excuses for him.  I love the kid but understand that there's a chance he never reaches his potential.  However, you sure as sh*t won't see me basically root against him or declare him a bust after his first preseason like some people here.  That's just a stupid thing to do...and that's using the "nice words" to describe it.

[YankeeJet22]

15 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Goff and Lynch are both going to be busts.

 

only qb's I liked in this draft were Wentz and Cardale

My two favorite were Cook & Hack.

[Larz]

I've watched a half dozen other pre-season games this year, every single no name scrub QB you have never heard of is light years ahead of hack.  it has nothing to do with play-calling, reps, o-line or wepinz

if he was a bill we'd be having a lollercoaster good time roasting him

take off the glasses, he is the worst prospect we have ever seen

 

[Mogglez]

14 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said:

My two favorite were Cook & Hack.

Wentz 

Goff

Lynch (really didn't want to use the first on him though and if he was our only choice I'd have preferred to take the others in the 2nd/later rounds or trade Mo to get BACK in the first...which I was perfectly ok with at the time)

Hack

Dak 

Cook

Allen

Kessler

Cardale

Sudfeld

That was my list.  Not gonna rewrite history on who I preferred like others have.

 

[Mogglez]

50 minutes ago, Larz said:

I've watched a half dozen other pre-season games this year, every single no name scrub QB you have never heard of is light years ahead of hack.  it has nothing to do with play-calling, reps, o-line or wepinz

if he was a bill we'd be having a lollercoaster good time roasting him

take off the glasses, he is the worst prospect we have ever seen

 

Goff - Has been just as bad. Except LA traded the farm for him so it's much much worse.

Wentz - Hurt, so no.

Lynch - On a Super Bowl team with less issues and has looked ok.  Was also drafted in the first so you have to remove Darron Lee from our team.

Cook - Had a Hack like 4th game.

Cardale - looks like final collegiate year Cardale. Some good here and there.  Some bad moments though.  Far from complete.  Just like Hack, he needs work.

Sudfeld - Forgot he existed until we played the Skins.

Allen - See above ^^.

Dak - Lit it up with some of the best offensive talent in football.  Not going to dispute it.

Kessler - Channeled his inner Dan Orlovsky last night.

I'd love to know who these "no name scrub QB's" are that setting the world on fire because so far most, if not all, look like rookies....you know, like they're supposed too. 

 

[YankeeJet22]

21 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Wentz 

Goff

Lynch (really didn't want to use the first on him though and if he was our only choice I'd have preferred to take the others in the 2nd/later rounds or trade Mo to get BACK in the first...which I was perfectly ok with at the time)

Hack

Dak 

Cook

Allen

Kessler

Cardale

Sudfeld

That was my list.  Not gonna rewrite history on who I preferred like others have.

 

No joke... I liked them better than the three 1st round guys.  And no I'm not insane.

[FTL Jet Fan]

Wentz

Lynch- wanted him in the 1st

Wanted nothing to due with Dak or Hack. 

Dak looked great in pre-season but will wait until teams start getting tape on him but he was really impressive as I watched him tear upthe Fins.Holding out hope for Hack now that he is a Jet. Don't like the small hands especially in the Northeastern weather. 

[Mogglez]

Just now, YankeeJet22 said:

No joke... I liked them better than the three 1st round guys.  And no I'm not insane.

Hack....I would have honestly put above Lynch if I'm going with my heart.  They were both projects and I didn't honestly think Lynch was truly worth a first.  If I was fixing one up, I'm going with the guy who is cerebral.

I LOVED Wentz. That's a love affair going 2 years back.  Won't backtrack there.  Would have traded up for him.

Goff, to me, is a little bit of a Matt Ryan clone.  LA can only hope that's the case.  Knew that it was never realistic that we would get him.

[Mogglez]

15 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Wentz

Lynch- wanted him in the 1st

Wanted nothing to due with Dak or Hack. 

Dak looked great in pre-season but will wait until teams start getting tape on him but he was really impressive as I watched him tear upthe Fins.Holding out hope for Hack now that he is a Jet. Don't like the small hands especially in the Northeastern weather. 

I respect a man who will put his beliefs out there but put them aside to root for the laundry.  Others could learn from you.

I wouldn't worry much about the hands.  It's overblown.  Winston, they said at draft time, would be the first QB, with hands as small as his, in a longgggggg time to succeed should he work out.  He looks fine so far.  Hackenberg has a strong grip and never had a fumbling problem so that's not what is gonna kill him.  As long as we're not talking 8 1/2 or below, It's not really a big deal.

Dak exceeded everything I thought he'd do so far.  Dallas's talent has helped and so has the whole "It's preseason" factor.  I'll wait to see him in the regular season to assess.

[Copernicus]

I didn't think Hackenburg played  as bad as advertised. He was playing with third stringers who are never going to see the light of day in the NFL. Drop passes, not getting open, fumbles, poor OLINE protection all contributed to Hackenburg's nightmare game. Seriously, it was his second action in preseason! 

[Rangers9]

3 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I didn't think Hackenburg played  as bad as advertised. He was playing with third stringers who are never going to see the light of day in the NFL. Drop passes, not getting open, fumbles, poor OLINE protection all contributed to Hackenburg's nightmare game. Seriously, it was his second action in preseason! 

I thought in terms of basic mechanics he was ok until the pick 6. He also made another really bad decision that lucky for him wasn't a turnover when he tried to throw a pass off balance instead of taking the sack. But no points or offense his entire time on the field. 

[David Harris]

Brace yourselves for Case Keenum versus Blaine Gabbert when the Los Angeles Rams open the season onMonday Night Football.

If Jared Goff had even a slim chance of overtaking Keenum for the Week 1 quarterback job, Thursday night's performance in the preseason finale slammed the door shut.

The draft's No. 1 overall pick authored an encouraging opening touchdown drive, highlighted by a 30-yard, read-option pass to Bradley Marquez. The wheels fell off thereafter.

 

 

Goff's next five third-down opportunities resulted in three consecutive overthrows, a bail-out throw short of the first-down marker and a muffed shotgun snap inside the Rams' 10-yard line. His next throw after the lost fumble was tipped at the line of scrimmage and intercepted.

Operating almost exclusively out of the shotgun, Goff struggled with the follow through on his mechanics, showed errant ball placement and got rattled by pressure.

After completing 3 of 4 passes for 53 yards on the opening drive, he was a disturbing 3 of 12 for 14 yards with two turnovers on the final seven first-half possessions.

The Rams' quarterback of the future finished his first preseason 22 of 49 (44.9 percent) for 232 yards (4.73 yards per attempt), two touchdowns, two interceptions, three fumbles and a 55.8 passer rating.

Perhaps most telling, Goff has shown little awareness -- struggling with snaps, taking too many hits and failing to process at NFL speeds.

 

 

Coach Jeff Fisher conceded after the game, via Rich Hammond of the Los Angeles Daily News, that Sean Mannion is poised to enter the season as Keenum's backup, with Goff as the No. 3 quarterback.

"I think it's going to take a little bit more time," Fisher said. "That's not to say he can't be a (No. 2 quarterback) or start, but if we were starting right now, I'd probably have Sean as the two. Because it's all about being patient with him."

August quarterback assessments are notoriously difficult. A seemingly overmatched Cam Newton posted similar numbers to Goff in his first preseason, only to break the rookie record for passing yards in his regular-season debut.

While it's premature to downgrade Goff's career outlook, Rams fans have to be disappointed that he's headed for a redshirt rookie season rather than delivering the same brand of promise that Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota provided in Tampa and Nashville last year.

[32EBoozer]

Picking QB's is like playing Roulette.... 

Or Craps!

[New York Mick]

2 hours ago, drdetroit said:

You have no idea how wrong you are 

I watched every game he played in college, he was average with great support.

[32EBoozer]

13 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

I watched every game he played in college, he was average with great support.

We'll know how he progressed after the season

Until then...... you guys can just agree to disagree

[FTL Jet Fan]

12 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I respect a man who will put his beliefs out there but put them aside to root for the laundry.  Others could learn from you.

I wouldn't worry much about the hands.  It's overblown.  Winston, they said at draft time, would be the first QB, with hands as small as his, in a longgggggg time to succeed should he work out.  He looks fine so far.  Hackenberg has a strong grip and never had a fumbling problem so that's not what is gonna kill him.  As long as we're not talking 8 1/2 or below, It's not really a big deal.

Dak exceeded everything I thought he'd do so far.  Dallas's talent has helped and so has the whole "It's preseason" factor.  I'll wait to see him in the regular season to assess.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I am fan to the end no matter what. I know Winston has small hand as does Tannehill 9" same size as Hack. I guess I was just worried about the weather and his grip, happy to hear he didn't have problems holding on to the ball.

[Jet Nut]

22 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Prescott has to prove it regular season. Same for any starting Qb. We'll see what happens when he plays vs the Giants in game one. To say he's way ahead of other rookie Qbs isn't the case yet. But if he pans out and has a career as starting Qb for the Cowboys it just means they got their Qbs like with Romo as a FA or with Dak as a 4th rounder. Let's not go crazy about this kid yet. Regular season is a different kettle of fish. Who knows maybe our 4th round guy in the long run will be our starter. Hopefully he isn't seriously injured. 

Has had a huge advantage playing for the Cowboys.  Romo was limited so he got plenty of snaps and practice.  Then to save Romo he's appeared with the starting unit in Dallas while a Hack has taken limited snaps and played with 3rd and 4th stringers.  It's rare that a QB prospect gets to play in every preseason game with the number 1 unit, a top offense at that, with maybe the best OL and a top running game.  

Put Dak behind a line with Shell and the other scrubs Hack lined up behind, bet he looks different 

[32EBoozer]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Has had a huge advantage playing for the Cowboys.  Romo was limited so he got plenty of snaps and practice.  Then to save Romo he's appeared with the starting unit in Dallas while a Hack has taken limited snaps and played with 3rd and 4th stringers.  It's rare that a QB prospect gets to play in every preseason game with the number 1 unit, a top offense at that, with maybe the best OL and a top running game.  

Pug Dak behind a line with Shell and the other scrubs Hack lined up behind, bet he looks different 

This guy gets it.

[thebuzzardman]

13 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

This guy gets it.

Apparently it's a team game, until it comes time to talk about QB's...

[32EBoozer]

Just now, thebuzzardman said:

Apparently it's a team game, until it comes time to talk about QB's...

You get it also!

4 stars for all 3 of us!

[Rangers9]

22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Has had a huge advantage playing for the Cowboys.  Romo was limited so he got plenty of snaps and practice.  Then to save Romo he's appeared with the starting unit in Dallas while a Hack has taken limited snaps and played with 3rd and 4th stringers.  It's rare that a QB prospect gets to play in every preseason game with the number 1 unit, a top offense at that, with maybe the best OL and a top running game.  

Put Dak behind a line with Shell and the other scrubs Hack lined up behind, bet he looks different 

Based on what we've seen I don't think he could sustain an offense yet. He might make some individual plays but overall I don't see him efficiently running an offense. Even with the first team. But you make a good point because it's an advantage playing with your best players. But in a game with 3rd and 4th strings vs the same where you'd think he was one of the better players on the field he wasn't. Let's see what happens after a full season in the classroom and some work on the field but minimal. I'm not sure the Jets brought him in with the right plan like you say giving him so few reps. If he's solidly in their plans maybe even for next season he should have gotten more work.

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

He had a pretty good 1st year.

I think he can be good if they get another outside threat to pair with Evans. Jackson getting long in the tooth

Martin and Simms are good @ catching the ball

He'll put up Fitz #'s

Just over 4,000 yards, 22tds and 15 picks.  As a rookie, without Marshall and Decker.  No one should question his ability until he fails at this point. He had a great rookie year

[Jet Nut]

31 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Based on what we've seen I don't think he could sustain an offense yet. He might make some individual plays but overall I don't see him efficiently running an offense. Even with the first team. But you make a good point because it's an advantage playing with your best players. But in a game with 3rd and 4th strings vs the same where you'd think he was one of the better players on the field he wasn't. Let's see what happens after a full season in the classroom and some work on the field but minimal. I'm not sure the Jets brought him in with the right plan like you say giving him so few reps. If he's solidly in their plans maybe even for next season he should have gotten more work.

Hard to look good when everyone is either getting beat or missing their assignments.  Not making excuses, he had a bad night but it's more than just a QB who will never get it

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Hard to look good when everyone is either getting beat or missing their assignments.  Not making excuses, he had a bad night but it's more than just a QB who will never get it

One bad night doesn't make a career and he was better the previous week.. But to me it looks like he is one of the least ready Qbs to play during pre-season out of that draft. Other guys played much better under similar conditions. Football is unlike baseball in that they don't have a minor leagues. Or like in the past a developmental league. That would be perfect for Hack. btw the FXFL which was unaffiliated with the NFL officially ceased operations in August. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

13 hours ago, Copernicus said:

I didn't think Hackenburg played  as bad as advertised. He was playing with third stringers who are never going to see the light of day in the NFL. Drop passes, not getting open, fumbles, poor OLINE protection all contributed to Hackenburg's nightmare game. Seriously, it was his second action in preseason! 

Exactly.  

I finally watched the game last night expecting a brush fire from the reactions on this board.  

yeah, he was bad, but he wasn't given much help.

He was put behind the eight ball on almost every drive.  

It seemed to me that just when something positive happened, that maybe you'll see him get in a rhythm, there was a drop or drive killing holding call.

I think the only thing you can take from Thursday's game is he's not ready, or good enough yet, to carry his teammates.

He needs a lot of help and things to go right to produce right now.

 

Just like we were told.

[Jetsfan80]

On September 2, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

Lynch certainly had (and has) elite arm strength and great size (is there such a thing as "elite size" lol)?

Discussions that occur regularly in the mod lounge, for sure.

[Rangers9]

I didn't think there was that big of a pass rush on him. It was normal. Those guys made mistakes too, and on some plays protection might have broken down but overall it was average. That was the excuse some people gave him for regressing at Penn State. I didn't see his college games except maybe a few and don't remember them. Maybe a few Nittany Lions fans could chime in on that. And give their opinion on the Penn State O-line during those years. I'd like to hear what they have to say. I'm sure a few of them have talked about it already.

[Charlie Brown]

On September 2, 2016 at 9:25 AM, munchmemory said:

Anybody watching Hack and not being a little worried is kidding themselves.  Can he improve? Dear Lord, I hope so.  But just looking at the kid's overall "presence" kinda scares me.

It should Sanchez looked way better IMO and it isn't even close and you can see how that turned out!!

In truth all we can hope is that this coaching staff knows how to groom and develop a guy with tremendous talent but also who needs tremendous work as well.