Gruden Knew

[Cap'nObvious]

I thought this topic was going to be about something else, did anyone else notice how Gruden was practically calling our plays last night? He would say, here comes a screen, and bam, it would come. I have never been a fan of Gailey, and I think there was a good reason he was out of work in the NFL. If Gruden knows our plays, pretty safe to assume that the other team does too. Team has so many problems, QB, Defense, OC, HC.

[NYJ37/12]

4 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I agree..but  the "Best you can"   isnt acceptable.  Would you let someone operate on you and he says, Ill do the best I can or would you find a qualified surgeon. When clients hire poorly qualified  bookkeeper, they say .."Oh..she's my wifes friend, I trust her, etc".  I respond, I dont care.  Her best is not good enough.  

Trust me..I think Woody is learning but the REAL teams dont make these mistakes as often as he does.

Who said "best you can"? The "real teams" have a good qb that hides most of the problems. Blaming the owner is the easy excuse. Last year everyone was saying Woody hit pay dirt with his hires, now its the opposite. The Jets are not good and its the players/coaches that are at fault. You cannot even blame the GM at this point with only two drafts and one with his scouts.

[drsamuel84]

I'm not sure if it was Gruden or the other guy but there was one comment that stuck out to me that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned here.  When talking about the Jets carrying 4 QB's the broadcaster said they asked Bowles about it and his response (I'm paraphrasing) was "There is a reason, I can't tell you now but you'll find out soon"  To me, that means Geno is out the door once Petty is healthy and explains why Bowles has been so stubborn about going to Geno.  

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Im simply asking what I believe are reasonable questions.  We have been a mediocre team since his ownership.  Some level of responsibility falls there. 

I have no idea about Woody other than he seems to have accomplished very little on merit. 

Competitive teams (Steelers, Pats, Giants, Packers) do things differently.  

Not on Bowles? really?  I disagree. Management and coaching are extremely important and Bowles has shown no real ability to handle the HC job.

Actually we've been to the playoffs, we've been to 2 AFCCGs, we've had some good teams.  The owner spends on players, practice facilities and the Stadium, like it or not.  I asked and no answer, what should he have done differently?   He fired Rex when he should have and brought in 2 HOF GMs to help wi th search.  There were what 2 or so hot assistants available and he hired one of them.  

No, not on Bowles.  He has shown no ability? Where you making these observations when we won 10 games with a journeyman QB?  Doubt it.  Love some of the comments.  Never changes.  He started off blitzing like crazy, couldn't rely on his CBs so played more zone, didn't work.  Last night they we're much more aggressive.  Yet fans whine that he makes no moves.  You can only play the hand you have.  Does he make mistakes?  Yes, like any new HC, he'll even vet HCs screw up.  Need to give him time. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, drsamuel84 said:

I'm not sure if it was Gruden or the other guy but there was one comment that stuck out to me that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned here.  When talking about the Jets carrying 4 QB's the broadcaster said they asked Bowles about it and his response (I'm paraphrasing) was "There is a reason, I can't tell you now but you'll find out soon"  To me, that means Geno is out the door once Petty is healthy and explains why Bowles has been so stubborn about going to Geno.  

I heard that also the big secret I dont expect anything less from this team anymore this organization is a joke and we just need to accept it for what it is. 

[NYJ37/12]

1 minute ago, drsamuel84 said:

I'm not sure if it was Gruden or the other guy but there was one comment that stuck out to me that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned here.  When talking about the Jets carrying 4 QB's the broadcaster said they asked Bowles about it and his response (I'm paraphrasing) was "There is a reason, I can't tell you now but you'll find out soon"  To me, that means Geno is out the door once Petty is healthy and explains why Bowles has been so stubborn about going to Geno.  

I heard that and thought the same

[Jet Nut]

48 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Geno came in fumbled the ball and threw a pick. 

Geno came into a game that there was no chance of winning with the d teeing off on him.  The sack, fumble was on he line which played like garbage.  The pick was on 4th and long, trying to just make it happen.  Are you crazy?  You have an issue with that INT but are ok with Fitz throwing his 4th red zone INT of this season?  

[Jet Nut]

14 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I agree..but  the "Best you can"   isnt acceptable.  Would you let someone operate on you and he says, Ill do the best I can or would you find a qualified surgeon. When clients hire poorly qualified  bookkeeper, they say .."Oh..she's my wifes friend, I trust her, etc".  I respond, I dont care.  Her best is not good enough.  

Trust me..I think Woody is learning but the REAL teams dont make these mistakes as often as he does.

That's twisting it around.  The hire wasn't best you can.  The process was the best anyone could.  You don't like the hire if it doesn't work out, that's ok.  Doesn't mean the hiremwas done properly for the right reasons.  It's like when you draft, you draft what you think is the best player, you expect him to succeed.  If he fails it happens, nothing here is an exact science.  You think there's a guaranteed successful HC hire anywhere?  

Giants haven't hired their share of awful HCs?  Want to bet?  Handley? Perkins? Sure about this one? 

[section314]

10 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

I'm not sure if it was Gruden or the other guy but there was one comment that stuck out to me that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned here.  When talking about the Jets carrying 4 QB's the broadcaster said they asked Bowles about it and his response (I'm paraphrasing) was "There is a reason, I can't tell you now but you'll find out soon"  To me, that means Geno is out the door once Petty is healthy and explains why Bowles has been so stubborn about going to Geno.  

Thanks for bringing that up. It was Gruden. I have been thinking that for some time now about Petty, as well.I think if he hadn't got hurt, it would have happened already.

[Jet Nut]

49 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

He made the playoffs his 2nd year and won a playoff game???

He won 13 and fans wanted him fired.  Maras we're ready to fire him.  Don't care about the strike, he didn't coach well, Had to make changes, be himself.  His words.  But then again they reluctantly promoted Parcells when Perkins ran out on them. 

Kraft was close to pulling the plug on BB his first season too.  Both were given more time and it paid off big time for each org. 

[southparkcpa]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That's twisting it around.  The hire wasn't best you can.  The process was the best anyone could.  You don't like the hire if it doesn't work out, that's ok.  Doesn't mean the hiremwas done properly for the right reasons.  It's like when you draft, you draft what you think is the best player, you expect him to succeed.  If he fails it happens, nothing here is an exact science.  You think there's a guaranteed successful HC hire anywhere?  

Giants haven't hired their share of awful HCs?  Want to bet?  Handley? Perkins? Sure about this one? 

Look, I get it but Handley?  Thats early 90's.    Perkins..the 80's.    The Panthers have had a better run the last 15 years than the JETS and they are an expansion team.

Why?  The owner is a real prick of a football guy and wont take mediocrity as an answer. He is VERY vocal. he basically called Julius Peppers out and Peppers left. he asked Peppers to step up as a leader.   Yes..they have bad years too but in general, the team is run a tad better.

[Charlie Brown]

28 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

While i agree that Woody's statement was assinine (close to a contender). What do fans actually expect an owner to do to fix it . He spends up to the cap limit , he's not coaching or evaluating talent , sure maybe he could have hired better coaches, but in reality who was available at the time they hired Bowles ??

I might be in the minority, but I'm of the mindset that there's 2 things I want from an owner - Willingness to spend to the cap limit and having the balls to fire the coach/GM when necessary,.

Hey my friend I agree you.

I am not calling Woody out.  I like him, I do.

I don't feel that you have to be Vince Lombardi to own a team.

What I was pointing out is that the owner is putting out an impossible request that the team win with aging vets and rookies, especially at the QB position. 

That works well and is a fine strategy, if and only if, you had a strong base to work from in the beginning.  Pittsburgh comes to mind.  That team always seems to have a pipeline of linebackers,WRs and RBs but that is because their base was strong after many many years of development. That kind of consistency isn't an accident.

You can't forego the development process.  You might have to take a real step back to go forward, that is the truth and reality, not necessarily what I want but it is the truth.

 

[Cap'nObvious]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He won 13 and fans wanted him fired.  Maras we're ready to fire him.  Don't care about the strike, he didn't coach well, Had to make changes, be himself.  His words.  But then again they reluctantly promoted Parcells when Perkins ran out on them. 

Kraft was close to pulling the plug on BB his first season too.  Both were given more time and it paid off big time for each org. 

I think these are very fair points, and I don't think Bowles should be fired at the end of this year, but I do think he has to show next year that he gets it or has to be gone. I don't like his choice for OC at all, never did, and I think he plays not to lose, which is almost always a recipe for how you lose. I know a lot of people say you cannot keep firing coaches every 2-3 years, and I somewhat understand that. But I would also argue that once a coach shows you he does not get it, and is not learning, how long do you stay with him?

[joewilly12]

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Geno came into a game that there was no chance of winning with the d teeing off on him.  The sack, fumble was on he line which played like garbage.  The pick was on 4th and long, trying to just make it happen.  Are you crazy?  You have an issue with that INT but are ok with Fitz throwing his 4th red zone INT of this season?  

Exactly this guy gets it.

[Freemanm]

3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I am not sure who his inside source was, but it was obvious even in the first quarter that Gruden knew the Jets were going to bring in Geno if Fitz faltered. He mentioned it like 20 times and they had little prepared things about it ready. I suspect the plan was for Geno to start second half but Bowles wavered and gave Fitz a few more series which put the game out of reach and brought Geno into a no win situation. He also mentioned Woody's frustration so maybe Woody is tired of Fitz. But Gruden knew and I thought that was interesting.

He also knew that the "book" is completely out on Fitz and that Fitz literally cannot do anything more than he does and opposing defenses know it. I have a hard time imagining the Jets not making a move at QB. 

Oh and it is time to see what Tromayne Pope can do. Forte as I expected is old and done.

 

 

Nothing mysterious about how Gruden knew. Fraudpatrick sucked from the beginning of the game and most of the season

[southparkcpa]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That's twisting it around.  The hire wasn't best you can.  The process was the best anyone could.  You don't like the hire if it doesn't work out, that's ok.  Doesn't mean the hiremwas done properly for the right reasons.  It's like when you draft, you draft what you think is the best player, you expect him to succeed.  If he fails it happens, nothing here is an exact science.  You think there's a guaranteed successful HC hire anywhere?  

Giants haven't hired their share of awful HCs?  Want to bet?  Handley? Perkins? Sure about this one? 

 

1 hour ago, Ex-Rex said:

Parcells left. What else do you need to know? Belichick left as well. This pathetic moron of an owner has tied his own GM's hands by "trying to remain competitive" while rebuilding. Can't do it. By trying to remain "competitive" it means that Mac has to "reach" for "hold the fort guys" like Skrine, Giacomini, Jenkins-Sefarian etc. and to overpay for guys like Fitz and Mo Wilkerson who has been invisible this season. You can't do this thing halfway which is exactly what the brain dead owner of this team thinks you can do. 

JN....  Ex Rex says it well IMO.

[Jet Nut]

20 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Look, I get it but Handley?  Thats early 90's.    Perkins..the 80's.    The Panthers have had a better run the last 15 years than the JETS and they are an expansion team.

Why?  The owner is a real prick of a football guy and wont take mediocrity as an answer. He is VERY vocal. he basically called Julius Peppers out and Peppers left. he asked Peppers to step up as a leader.   Yes..they have bad years too but in general, the team is run a tad better.

Same owner, why is it irrelevant.  Do you know the league threatened to take control of the team in the early 80's?  From the Maras.  They forced them to hire George Young or it was over.  

can you imagine if Woody was VERY vocal.  The same whiners who complain about him today would be up in arms.  Look here, he's a meddling owner one day, accepts mediocrity the next.  But hey he should get vocal.  Calling out a vet helps win games.  Better yet, if we were the Panthers, went to a SB, were beaten up and then went 1-5 the following season this place would explode.  Shlt, people are killing the HC, the owner and the GM from falling from 10 wins to the same record as the Panthers.  

Would love to put out a new team into the league as an expansion team. Have the top draft picks.  Cherry pick players from the NFL.  Be way under the cap.  Have an easy schedule.  Not like it's the 62 Mets. 

[Jet Nut]

26 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

I'm not sure if it was Gruden or the other guy but there was one comment that stuck out to me that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned here.  When talking about the Jets carrying 4 QB's the broadcaster said they asked Bowles about it and his response (I'm paraphrasing) was "There is a reason, I can't tell you now but you'll find out soon"  To me, that means Geno is out the door once Petty is healthy and explains why Bowles has been so stubborn about going to Geno.  

Was cryptic.  

[Charlie Brown]

33 minutes ago, Cap'nObvious said:

I thought this topic was going to be about something else, did anyone else notice how Gruden was practically calling our plays last night? He would say, here comes a screen, and bam, it would come. I have never been a fan of Gailey, and I think there was a good reason he was out of work in the NFL. If Gruden knows our plays, pretty safe to assume that the other team does too. Team has so many problems, QB, Defense, OC, HC.

The OC is and has to play to the QB's strengths.

Gruden calling for roll outs or hurry up offense for example can't be done because Fitz can't consistently execute those plays.

Gruden was right, but he was wrong because the Jets QB is limited in his skill set.

The plain fact is teams are stacking the box and covering the middle and Brandon Marshall; and the Jets QB can't consistently identify the open man or throw accurately downfield this makes screens and other plays less effective because folks are right there.  This is not on the OC/Gailey.         

If you had Brady, Rogers or even Winston or even Glennon out there running this offense the results would be far different because those QBs can make all of the throws something that FItz (I like him) simply can not do.

[FTL Jet Fan]

27 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

I'm not sure if it was Gruden or the other guy but there was one comment that stuck out to me that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned here.  When talking about the Jets carrying 4 QB's the broadcaster said they asked Bowles about it and his response (I'm paraphrasing) was "There is a reason, I can't tell you now but you'll find out soon"  To me, that means Geno is out the door once Petty is healthy and explains why Bowles has been so stubborn about going to Geno.  

I found that quote rather interesting. I agree I think it means Petty is starting after the Ravens game or once he is back up to speed, but who the hell knows anymore.

[Savage69]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Same owner, why is it irrelevant.  Do you know the league threatened to take control of the team in the early 80's?  From the Maras.  They forced them to hire George Young or it was over.  

can you imagine if Woody was VERY vocal.  The same whiners who complain about him today would be up in arms.  Look here, he's a meddling owner one day, accepts mediocrity the next.  But hey he should get vocal.  Calling out a vet helps win games.  Better yet, if we were the Panthers, went to a SB, were beaten up and then went 1-5 the following season this place would explode.  Shlt, people are killing the HC, the owner and the GM from falling from 10 wins to the same record as the Panthers.  

Would love to put out a new team into the league as an expansion team. Cherry pick players from the NFL.  Be way under the cap.  Have an easy schedule.  Not like it's the 62 Mets. 

And the Panthers were 15-1 in 2015..Even Tuna the Great started 1999 at 1-6 after Vinny went out in game one and finally put in a better QB and finished 8-8

[Xtina]

3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I am not sure who his inside source was, but it was obvious even in the first quarter that Gruden knew the Jets were going to bring in Geno if Fitz faltered. He mentioned it like 20 times and they had little prepared things about it ready. I suspect the plan was for Geno to start second half but Bowles wavered and gave Fitz a few more series which put the game out of reach and brought Geno into a no win situation. He also mentioned Woody's frustration so maybe Woody is tired of Fitz. But Gruden knew and I thought that was interesting.

He also knew that the "book" is completely out on Fitz and that Fitz literally cannot do anything more than he does and opposing defenses know it. I have a hard time imagining the Jets not making a move at QB. 

Oh and it is time to see what Tromayne Pope can do. Forte as I expected is old and done.

 

 

Maybe he watched the last 5 games? How hard is this to know? 

[Maxman]

3 hours ago, jbt said:

any person with eyes would know that Fitz should be replaced

At his point ears is all it takes.

[Xtina]

3 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

So...5 teams released this buffoon who has the book "out" on him, yet we pay him $12 million.

We hire Bowles, who appears to be a complete moron. Peter principle at its best.

Management of the NY Jets is and has always been a problem.  It has to be on Woody.

Id LOVE to hear REAL honest talk from Parcells, Bellickek etc..on what they thought of Woody.

 

 

 

He did it the "right" way this time with Casserly et al advising and we get a worse result than ever. This is a gargantuan problem 

[southparkcpa]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Better yet, if we were the Panthers, went to a SB, were beaten up and then went 1-5 the following season this place would explode.  Shlt, people are killing the HC, the owner and the GM from falling from 10 wins to the same record as the Panthers.  

 

I disagree.....  here in Charlotte people are deeply disappointed. no question but no one is saying Rivera needs to go. They get it.  In 2011, when we started playing poorly, no one called for change. It is this deep rut of poor decisions over 4 years that is making this happen.

We are mediocre at best since Woody bought us. We can disagree on why but ownership has to bear responsibility or simply put the team in a blind trust run by lawyers and football guys in a board of directors format. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Ex-Rex said:

Parcells left. What else do you need to know? Belichick left as well. This pathetic moron of an owner has tied his own GM's hands by "trying to remain competitive" while rebuilding. Can't do it. By trying to remain "competitive" it means that Mac has to "reach" for "hold the fort guys" like Skrine, Giacomini, Jenkins-Sefarian etc. and to overpay for guys like Fitz and Mo Wilkerson who has been invisible this season. You can't do this thing halfway which is exactly what the brain dead owner of this team thinks you can do. 

 

6 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

 

JN....  Ex Rex says it well IMO.

Parcells fulfilled his deal.  He told Hess he would try to win one for the dying owner and then retired.  Was the plan all along, had nothing to do with Woody.  Remember when he was retiring he did say that he would stay as HC for 8 mil plus, crazy money back then.  Woody rightfully said no thanks.  

Belichick left for well publishized reasons.  He was a huge question mark, fans laughed at the idea of him taking over as HC after the debacle of Cleveland.  Parcells stayed on in his advisory role and Belichcik didn't trust Parcells to leave him alone and took a job where he wouldn't have a coaching legend in the same building.  He left because of Parcells, not Woody. 

Noe give us one shred of proof, anything, that indicated woody told them to bring in players that you don't like.  In fact tell me how Jenkins-Sefarian or Skrine are in any way hold the fort guys.  

You have to have more than just being one of those dweebs who boos an owner just because he's an owner.  

[bitonti]

jon Gruden is a dumbass. He spends 3 quarters crowing for Geno Smith, Geno gets in, strip sack, pick and then he says "Maybe it doesn't matter who is playing QB for the NYJ"

 

yeah. Duh. Welcome to Todd Bowles' world. Do people really think Bowles is so incompetent he can't set a depth chart?

 

yes, Fitz is awful. He's also the best they have. Those are two true statements. 

[southparkcpa]

4 minutes ago, Xtina said:

He did it the "right" way this time with Casserly et al advising and we get a worse result than ever. This is a gargantuan problem 

I agree.  I am VERY disturbed because I think Woody did it right this time. The MAC selection, IMO, was solid but he hasnt shown it yet.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

And the Panthers were 15-1 in 2015..Even Tuna the Great started 1999 at 1-6 after Vinny went out in game one and finally put in a better QB and finished 8-8

Our fans are killing everyone for the team falling from 10 wins to 1-5, the same record as the Panthers, who he's praising the owner over.  

Tuna should have played Lucas instead of stubbornly sticking with Meirer.  

[Savage69]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 

Parcells fulfilled his deal.  He told Hess he would try to win one for the dying owner and then retired.  Was the plan all along, had nothing to do with Woody.  Remember when he was retiring he did say that he would stay as HC for 8 mil plus, crazy money back then.  Woody rightfully said no thanks.  

Belichick left for well publishized reasons.  He was a huge question mark, fans laughed at the idea of him taking over as HC after the debacle of Cleveland.  Parcells stayed on in his advisory role and Belichcik didn't trust Parcells to leave him alone and took a job where he wouldn't have a coaching legend in the same building.  He left because of Parcells, not Woody. 

Noe give us one shred of proof, anything, that indicated woody told them to bring in players that you don't like.  In fact tell me how Jenkins-Sefarian or Skrine are in any way hold the fort guys.  

You have to have more than just being one of those dweebs who boos an owner just because he's an owner.  

+1 I always wonder if when Hess hired BB in 1997 maybe he should have left well enough alone and not also got the Tuna to demote BB to DC.. No doubt BB left to get the smell of over ripe Tuna off him..

[Jet Nut]

13 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

+1 I always wonder if when Hess hired BB in 1997 maybe he should have left well enough alone and not also got the Tuna to demote BB to DC.. No doubt BB left to get the smell of over ripe Tuna off him..

Who know how it might have changed the history of this org?  

[JohnnyLV]

jon Gruden is a dumbass. He spends 3 quarters crowing for Geno Smith, Geno gets in, strip sack, pick and then he says "Maybe it doesn't matter who is playing QB for the NYJ"
 
yeah. Duh. Welcome to Todd Bowles' world. Do people really think Bowles is so incompetent he can't set a depth chart?
 
yes, Fitz is awful. He's also the best they have. Those are two true statements. 

No they are not. Fitz is the worst QB on the roster easily

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Savage69]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Who know how it might have changed the history of this org?  

He took many of the Jet guys to NE with him one was the Tuna's son-in-law wasn't it??

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

He took many of the Jet guys to NE with him one was the Tuna's son-in-law wasn't it??

Yes, Pioli was/is his son in law.  In fact during the leagues investigation to the Pats hiring BB, Pioli testified for Belichick. 

I still cringe at the thought of Otis Smith having a SB ring! 

Thats why I had to laugh when Peter King was doing his then Inside The NFL gig and criticized Mangini and the Jets when Mangini took a few assistants with him to NY.  Said that it was very disrespectful, lol

 

[Jet Nut]

46 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I disagree.....  here in Charlotte people are deeply disappointed. no question but no one is saying Rivera needs to go. They get it.  In 2011, when we started playing poorly, no one called for change. It is this deep rut of poor decisions over 4 years that is making this happen.

We are mediocre at best since Woody bought us. We can disagree on why but ownership has to bear responsibility or simply put the team in a blind trust run by lawyers and football guys in a board of directors format. 

So in Charlotte fans realize he won games last season so have patience.  And those people get it.  But at the same record this season after taking a 4 win team to 10 wins you call our HC a complete moron.  Took 4 years to call for Rex to go?  So has does any of this pertain to Bowles in a,season and a quarter?  Having no patience is ok here because? 

You can keep saying it's Woody but when I ask why and what he should have done differently, especially with this hire it's he has to sell.  Sure he does, he has to.  Because a board of directors is the way to go.  It works every time in sports.  Like in, ugh, nowhere