Oline. It's where you start a rebuild

[peebag]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Yup....Looks like we have two guards - but we need to take at least two tackles in this draft, sign one in FA and keep Mangold another year (take an early center next year)

It's not that overwhelming of a  rebuild - sure we have to draft properly but we can get there in a couple of years...

Brian Winters is poo defined.  Sorry but we need a guard as well.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, peebag said:

Brian Winters is poo defined.  Sorry but we need a guard as well.

However you define Winters, he is a free agent. 

[bitonti]

after watching Winters get worked over by Suh i'm not sure it's such a hot idea to resign this player. 

[SickJetFan]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

after watching Winters get worked over by Suh i'm not sure it's such a hot idea to resign this player. 

Your just realizing this now.

when he was LG I thought it would be good idea to move him RG because he sucks at pass blocking and at least having him on right side saves QB from the blind ide pummel.

he showed a little promise when he 1st moved over but he hi ceiling showing himself to be no more than a good backup player...time to move on let someone else pay him more than he worth.

hoping mangold can come back for 1 more year...move Wesley over to rg or give Dakota his shot

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

after watching Winters get worked over by Suh i'm not sure it's such a hot idea to resign this player. 

I don't disagree, but I think they will because Maccagnan already dug himself enough holes to fill on the OL in one offseason. It could pan out, if one wants to paint Winters as getting progressively better (as he absolutely has since his terrible start), but Suh did toy with him pretty badly.

The other rationale against re-signing him is it means the draft-for-need Maccagnan will then pass on a guard prospect in the first 3-4 rounds no matter how good he is, since he'll already be committed to both Carpenter and Winters for multiple seasons.

That's the downside of taking care of all starting positions long term in this fashion, with just-ok players, before the draft. It can pigeonhole a GM into staying away from certain positions the same way draft-day openings pigeonhole a GM into reaching for certain positions. 

[peebag]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't disagree, but I think they will because Maccagnan already dug himself enough holes to fill on the OL in one offseason. It could pan out, if one wants to paint Winters as getting progressively better (as he absolutely has since his terrible start), but Suh did toy with him pretty badly.

The other rationale against re-signing him is it means the draft-for-need Maccagnan will then pass on a guard prospect in the first 3-4 rounds no matter how good he is, since he'll already be committed to both Carpenter and Winters for multiple seasons.

That's the downside of taking care of all starting positions long term in this fashion, with just-ok players, before the draft. It can pigeonhole a GM into staying away from certain positions the same way draft-day openings pigeonhole a GM into reaching for certain positions. 

Well Mac better not do the old "no-one-is-bidding-on-him-so-I'll-offer-12mil-to-him" move like he did with Fitzoid.  I just can't fathom anyone bidding against us for Winters.

[SickJetFan]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't disagree, but I think they will because Maccagnan already dug himself enough holes to fill on the OL in one offseason. It could pan out, if one wants to paint Winters as getting progressively better (as he absolutely has since his terrible start), but Suh did toy with him pretty badly.

The other rationale against re-signing him is it means the draft-for-need Maccagnan will then pass on a guard prospect in the first 3-4 rounds no matter how good he is, since he'll already be committed to both Carpenter and Winters for multiple seasons.

That's the downside of taking care of all starting positions long term in this fashion, with just-ok players, before the draft. It can pigeonhole a GM into staying away from certain positions the same way draft-day openings pigeonhole a GM into reaching for certain positions. 

How did Macc dig himself into an OL hole?

[bitonti]

this post brings up the Cowboys OL, that team used 3 first rounders on starters and all three became all Pros. It took several years to build that line, Tyron Smith is in his 6th season.

And even more importantly they were all excellent picks. These picks can't be forced i.e. there might not be an OL taken until 20 or 25 this year. 

They are going to have to hit the FA market, especially at LT. 

 

***

By the way the draft is a crapshoot and OL is secondary to QB. I'm saying this as a guy who writes OL articles every week and covers the draft every year. I personally love OLine and the draft. But without a QB it's nothing. Put it another way the same Cowboys line went 4-12 last year without a QB. 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

How did Macc dig himself into an OL hole?

Poor planning. And spare me any "oh, Brick just up and retired on him from out of nowhere" because that is factually untrue, and Brick was pretty lousy the last 2-3 years anyway (other than staying on the field & healthy, which didn't necessarily help the Jets anyway).

He didn't adequately replace Ferguson through FA or the draft for 2 years. He didn't replace Giacomini through FA or the draft for 2 years. He neither replaced nor locked up Winters though he had plenty of opportunity to do so. 

He signed Carpenter. This is the full extent of the demonstrably positive things he's done for the OL as GM in 2 offseasons. At this rate it will take 10 years for him to acquire 5 starting offensive linemen (and all 5 would be acquired via free agency).

Meanwhile he kept around 3 high-talent players that play the same DL position for 2 years instead of parlaying at least one of them into badly needed OL help. He took a slightly-built LB in round 1 that's more the type to fill a niche hole than he is a building block for 5-10 yrs like a solid OL pick would be: he passed up on Tunsil so he could draft Lee and Hackenberg. He traded a draft pick for Clady because he mandated a >50% pay cut to Ferguson in the absence of an adequate replacement. 

Entering 2017 he will have holes or badly-needed upgrades at LT, RG, and RT. At C he'll have the clearly-declined and no longer reliable Mangold at some $9million. There's 4/5 of the OL.

He doesn't get to have people credibly come to his rescue as though he just got here 5 minutes ago where nothing is his fault. 

[drdetroit]

1. Resign Winters

2. Sign AQ Shipley to be our Center

3. Draft a couple OTs in rounds 2-4 and let them compete for the LT job

4. Move Ijalana back to RT, I thought him and Qvale were serviceable at that position earlier in the season

 

[drdetroit]

34 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this post brings up the Cowboys OL, that team used 3 first rounders on starters and all three became all Pros. It took several years to build that line, Tyron Smith is in his 6th season.

And even more importantly they were all excellent picks. These picks can't be forced i.e. there might not be an OL taken until 20 or 25 this year. 

They are going to have to hit the FA market, especially at LT. 

 

***

By the way the draft is a crapshoot and OL is secondary to QB. I'm saying this as a guy who writes OL articles every week and covers the draft every year. I personally love OLine and the draft. But without a QB it's nothing. Put it another way the same Cowboys line went 4-12 last year without a QB. 

I'm not opposed to drafting Cam Robinson in round 1 IF Tim Williams isn't available

 

 

We actually need an edge rusher way more desperately than a Left Tackle

[MaxAF]

I agree the O-Line is a good place to start. Trade for a Veteran and maybe pick up a couple good draft picks. But this team is Swiss cheese in about every area except WR. There's not many FA QBs. Cousins$$$, EJ Manual, Gabbert, Yates, Sanchez. Romo and Cutler may be available but not big on these guys personally. Drafting another QB project is not the answer. In the infinite wisdom of the FO you may even see Geno or Fitz back. Secondary needs a major rebuild. Moving Skrine back inside might help. Jets need to have a fire sale and get rid of the old dead wood. Trade Shelly and either dump or renegotiate many overpaid contracts. Bowles... I've had enough of him. Let Mac pick his guy. Let Bowles practice on some other team on being a successful HC.

[bitonti]

17 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

I'm not opposed to drafting Cam Robinson in round 1 IF Tim Williams isn't available

 

 

We actually need an edge rusher way more desperately than a Left Tackle

 

That would be a reach, he probably doesn't go until at least 20. Pat Elfein from OSU probably in that mix too. But there will be edge rushers worth the top 5 pick. 

[bitonti]

19 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

 

4. Move Ijalana back to RT, I thought him and Qvale were serviceable at that position earlier in the season

 

 

Ijalana also needs to be resigned and Shell is probably the RT of the future. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ijalana also needs to be resigned and Shell is probably the RT of the future. 

I think of Ijalana as more of an LT/finesse type.  Is that a fair assessment?  It is more of an impression than anything concrete.  I absolutely agree they should sign Ijalana back because considering his low price, he is a nice floor and he has played both tackle spots and guard at times.  How did Shell look?  They moved the ball pretty well, but man were they sloppy.

[drdetroit]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

That would be a reach, he probably doesn't go until at least 20. Pat Elfein from OSU probably in that mix too. But there will be edge rushers worth the top 5 pick. 

Williams' stock will rise as we get closer to the draft he's the best pass rusher or a close second.  

 

I haven't seen a real edge rusher in a jet uniform since the greatest talent evaluator of all time Eric Mangini traded John Abraham away for a Center

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think of Ijalana as more of an LT/finesse type.  Is that a fair assessment?  It is more of an impression than anything concrete.  I absolutely agree they should sign Ijalana back because considering his low price, he is a nice floor and he has played both tackle spots and guard at times.  How did Shell look?  They moved the ball pretty well, but man were they sloppy.

 

Ijalana is a spot starter who cannot be trusted with the LT job full time. He's a backup at best. They need to sign a FA in free agency (after they cut Clady)

Shell actually looked pretty good. His technique is raw as hell but he's got size and natural strength. He just looks the part. I think he will be the starter for a while.

Qvale might be a decent OG if they don't resign Winters. 

[drdetroit]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ijalana also needs to be resigned and Shell is probably the RT of the future. 

I think we're good at RT.  AQ Sipley can be our Center of the future after that just get a couple guys in the draft for LT

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, drdetroit said:

Williams' stock will rise as we get closer to the draft he's the best pass rusher or a close second.  

 

I haven't seen a real edge rusher in a jet uniform since the greatest talent evaluator of all time Eric Mangini traded John Abraham away for a Center

 

Mac has shown himself to be a BAP guy in round one. it's super early but a defensive edge rusher seems most likely. Although a Peppers (or even Fournette) wouldn't be surprising either, if they fell. 

[drdetroit]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think of Ijalana as more of an LT/finesse type.  Is that a fair assessment?  It is more of an impression than anything concrete.  I absolutely agree they should sign Ijalana back because considering his low price, he is a nice floor and he has played both tackle spots and guard at times.  How did Shell look?  They moved the ball pretty well, but man were they sloppy.

Ijalana is a turnstile at Left Tackle. He and Wesley Johnson are the reason jets fans are panicking and saying we need to use the next 5 first round picks on OL

[papz187]

Then why do teams with franchise quarterbacks struggle? It's about building a talented team. Not just get the QB and all your problems are solved. 

Exactly, great point.

Hypothetically let's say we ended up tanking a couple years ago and ended up with Jameis Winston....great! Only problem is he is not better than Brady, and at best is probably a top 10 QB with potential to be top 5 at some point. So what chance would we have at winning the SB we've all coveted in this predicament?

We would need to develop strengths to build on team wise and put Winston in the best position to succeed, and IMO the best way to do that is by building a line to protect him and develop a dominant run game.

Look at Andrew Luck and Indy. He is easily a top young QB that will give your team a shot every season for years to come IF you surround him with the right supporting cast, which Indy has not. His line has been garbage, they can't run the ball or stop the run, which is why New England beats the hell out of them come December and January. Dak Prescott was a great find for Dallas, but he is not the best QB in the NFC....the reason his team is the NFC's best is due to their dominant line play and run game.

If the Jets find that elusive franchise QB they've been searching for since Namath, we will need to protect him and control the LOS. If we don't get a top 10 QB, then line play is even more important.

No matter which way you slice it, having a top tier OLine is essential to becoming consistently good in football.

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ijalana is a spot starter who cannot be trusted with the LT job full time. He's a backup at best. They need to sign a FA in free agency (after they cut Clady)

Shell actually looked pretty good. His technique is raw as hell but he's got size and natural strength. He just looks the part. I think he will be the starter for a while.

Qvale might be a decent OG if they don't resign Winters. 

Oh, I absolutely did not mean to consider him for the LT job full time.  I just meant style wise.  I think he is a fair back up at LT, but you'd probably want a guy with more upside. 

[bitonti]

8 minutes ago, papz187 said:

No matter which way you slice it, having a top tier OLine is essential to becoming consistently good in football.
 

 

1

I don't know if that's true. The Colts OL was bad with Peyton. The current NE OL is no great shakes. The Seattle OL is a friggin joke.  For years Philip Rivers performed despite having a shoddy OL.

A great QB can over come bad ol, it happens every week. The key is to get rid of the ball fast, and the Jets, breaking in these young guys, we think they need 5 or 6 seconds, it's not the job description.  If the QB can get rid of the ball under 2.5 seconds it takes the OL and DL out of the equation. 

MEanwhile Cleveland had a great line with Thomas and Mack last year. in the last few years, I can't think of a single example of a winning team with a bad or average QB. The 09 Jets proved that an OL can't cover for a bad QB in this fantasy football era. Every year they change the rules to make the QB more important. 

It really doesn't matter without a QB. One that makes fast decisions, not these Sanchez/Geno types who hold it forever. 

[papz187]

I don't know if that's true. The Colts OL was bad with Peyton. The current NE OL is no great shakes. The Seattle OL is a friggin joke.  For years Philip Rivers performed despite having a shoddy OL. A great QB can over come bad ol, it happens every week. 
MEanwhile Cleveland had a great line with Thomas and Mack last year.
 
It really doesn't matter without a QB. 

Yes you do need the QB, if a case like Peyton though he was ridiculously insane at putting his linemen and whole team in great position pre-snap. Russell Wilson is shifty as hell and makes up for a lot of their poor pass blocking play.

But if your looking at the most realistic way to winning, it's developing your offensive line and hopefully the scouts and GM evaluate and choose the right guy to play QB. It's much more realistic to build a top tier O-Line and find adequate to very good QB play then to just nail it with selection a QB who is top 3-5 in the league and let him over compensate for average teammates.

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk

[Adoni Beast]

No love for Brandon Shell? thought he played really well for his first start against a really good dline. 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

So do people regret that we took Leonard Williams over Brandon Scherff (assuming Scherff lived up to his potential -no idea if he did)

[Hael]

Drafting Oline does of course carry risk.  Especially at the tackle position, it's quite rare to get a pro bowler out of the first round.  Typically one out of three.  For interior linemen it's a tiny bit better.

 

[SickJetFan]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Poor planning. And spare me any "oh, Brick just up and retired on him from out of nowhere" because that is factually untrue, and Brick was pretty lousy the last 2-3 years anyway (other than staying on the field & healthy, which didn't necessarily help the Jets anyway).

He didn't adequately replace Ferguson through FA or the draft for 2 years. He didn't replace Giacomini through FA or the draft for 2 years. He neither replaced nor locked up Winters though he had plenty of opportunity to do so. 

He signed Carpenter. This is the full extent of the demonstrably positive things he's done for the OL as GM in 2 offseasons. At this rate it will take 10 years for him to acquire 5 starting offensive linemen (and all 5 would be acquired via free agency).

Meanwhile he kept around 3 high-talent players that play the same DL position for 2 years instead of parlaying at least one of them into badly needed OL help. He took a slightly-built LB in round 1 that's more the type to fill a niche hole than he is a building block for 5-10 yrs like a solid OL pick would be: he passed up on Tunsil so he could draft Lee and Hackenberg. He traded a draft pick for Clady because he mandated a >50% pay cut to Ferguson in the absence of an adequate replacement. 

Entering 2017 he will have holes or badly-needed upgrades at LT, RG, and RT. At C he'll have the clearly-declined and no longer reliable Mangold at some $9million. There's 4/5 of the OL.

He doesn't get to have people credibly come to his rescue as though he just got here 5 minutes ago where nothing is his fault. 

i think Macc has done decent job so far...sure some things have not worked out but you could come up with similar list for every GM in league.  At the time of all the moves I was maybe surprised at some but they have been rational.

in his limited time here.   He was hired late that 1st year and had to work that draft through with TB and all the others he soon let go after so I'd say he is about 1 and 1 half off-season to judge.  With that small set I think he has done as one can expect.

i agreed with the Clady deal thought that was worth risk and it's not like they grow on trees LTs.

he did draft that OL in 1st draft they cut but again that was not his team.

he found Wesley which was a score.

Shell looks like a keeper so yes he did address Breno situation.

lock up winters? Please.....he is worth more as a comp pick time to either go with Dakota or move on from both

he has more work to do obviously just like almost every other team in league

as far as his drafting goes.  I have been super pleased and I know I'm in minority when I say the Hack pick was a good one.  He has not only done well picking into 7th round but has done unbelievably well with udfa.  His only miss so far was that OL they cut.  I think jury still out on Devin Smith and Hack..if no for Robbie Anderson we would probably have better idea on Smith by now but that is good problem to have.

anywho I know you do not agree with any of this and neither of what we say means anything anyway but we shall see in year or 2 who was right.

 

[ljr]

13 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

The Pats have been allowed to hold since Brady came into the picture. What you said about marketable players is spot on brother. This league is all about marketing, teams merchandise, players, you name it. I am beginning to hate what the NFL is becoming under Roger Goodell. The officials favor certain teams and penalize the less marketable ones. Guess where that leaves the Jets.

Anyone know where we may be able to find how many penalties in general each team gets per week ... And specifically how many OL holding penalties ... For the last 10-15 years?

i'd love to see if we all just feel this way because of our hatred of the cheats ... Or if there is data to back it up!

[bostonmajet]

Sounds like people are having trouble with basic math; you have 15-20 spots to fill and 6 or 7 picks a year - what is a GM to do? Well apparently to many here, he should draft 20 guys a year - oh and they have to all be pro bowlers too!

And for the record, Mac didn't dig himself a hole, Idzik was nice enough to dig it for him. There was no depth when he took over. Brick and Mangold aged 4 years since Idzik took over. Brick retirement wasn't a huge surprise, but what was Mac to do? He clearly tried to trade up for OL but couldn't move enough. Should he have overpaid? Reached?

He rebuilt the WR corp; starting rebuilding the LBs and added a solid LG in FA.

The holes on this team were huge when Mac took over. No GM hits on every pick, but even if he did, there would still be holes; had he rebuilt the OL, the WRs would suck and the LBs would be worse than they are now. All this talk about Mac digging holes and inheriting a better team than Idzik is just silly.

Mac may turn out to not be very good, but I doubt any GM could have fixed this team in 2 years. Everyone knew it was a 3-4 year rebuild. I am just as disappointed as many about the way this year played out, but maybe we should wait at least for one more draft and off season before we rewrite history in an effort to justify the anti-Mac sentiment.

[Barton]

32 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Sounds like people are having trouble with basic math; you have 15-20 spots to fill and 6 or 7 picks a year - what is a GM to do? Well apparently to many here, he should draft 20 guys a year - oh and they have to all be pro bowlers too!

And for the record, Mac didn't dig himself a hole, Idzik was nice enough to dig it for him. There was no depth when he took over. Brick and Mangold aged 4 years since Idzik took over. Brick retirement wasn't a huge surprise, but what was Mac to do? He clearly tried to trade up for OL but couldn't move enough. Should he have overpaid? Reached?

He rebuilt the WR corp; starting rebuilding the LBs and added a solid LG in FA.

The holes on this team were huge when Mac took over. No GM hits on every pick, but even if he did, there would still be holes; had he rebuilt the OL, the WRs would suck and the LBs would be worse than they are now. All this talk about Mac digging holes and inheriting a better team than Idzik is just silly.

Mac may turn out to not be very good, but I doubt any GM could have fixed this team in 2 years. Everyone knew it was a 3-4 year rebuild. I am just as disappointed as many about the way this year played out, but maybe we should wait at least for one more draft and off season before we rewrite history in an effort to justify the anti-Mac sentiment.

Seriously. Mac took over a team completely devoid of talent. Its going to take another 3 years or so of good drafting and free agents to build a proper team.

[David Harris]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/offensive-line/

2017 OL FREE AGENTS

Andrew Whitworth	LT	35	CIN	TBD	$9,000,000	UFA	-
Luke Joeckel	G	25	JAC	TBD	$5,300,400	UFA	-
T.J. Lang	G	29	GB	TBD	$5,200,000	UFA	-
Matt Kalil	LT	27	MIN	TBD	$4,942,650	UFA	-
Sebastian Vollmer	RT	32	NE	TBD	$4,187,500	UFA	-
Evan Mathis	G	35	ARI	TBD	$4,006,900	UFA	-
Jonathan Cooper	G	26	CLE	TBD	$3,637,251	UFA	-
Gosder Cherilus	RT	32	TB	TBD	$3,500,000	UFA	-
Andre Smith	RT	29	MIN	TBD	$3,500,000	UFA	-
Chance Warmack	G	25	TEN	TBD	$3,041,663	UFA	-
Ron Leary	G	27	DAL	TBD	$2,553,000	UFA	-
Mike Remmers	RT	27	CAR	TBD	$2,553,000	UFA	-
Chris Chester	G	33	ATL	TBD	$2,350,000	UFA	-
Byron Bell	RT	27	TEN	TBD	$2,250,000	UFA	-
Riley Reiff	LT	28	DET	TBD	$1,998,425	UFA	-
Kevin Zeitler	G	26	CIN	TBD	$1,886,050	UFA	-
Jordan Mills	RT	25	BUF	TBD	$1,671,000	UFA	-
Austin Pasztor	G	26	CLE	TBD	$1,671,000	UFA	-
Tim Lelito	G	27	NO	TBD	$1,671,000	UFA	-
Matt McCants	RT	27	CHI	TBD	$1,671,000	UFA	-
Joe Hawley	C	28	TB	TBD	$1,664,063	UFA	-
Ted Larsen	G	29	CHI	TBD	$1,650,000	UFA	-
Marshall Newhouse	RT	28	NYG	TBD	$1,500,000	UFA	-
Jermon Bushrod	G	32	MIA	TBD	$1,500,000	UFA	-
Eric Kush	G	27	CHI	TBD	$1,260,000	UFA	-
Menelik Watson	RT	27	OAK	TBD	$1,198,713	UFA	-
Cody Wallace	C	32	PIT	TBD	$1,160,000	UFA	-
William Beatty	LT	31	NYG	TBD	$1,100,000	UFA	-
Eric Winston	RT	33	CIN	TBD	$1,090,000	UFA	-
Jahri Evans	G	33	NO	TBD	$1,000,000	UFA	-
Bradley Sowell	LT	27	SEA	TBD	$1,000,000	UFA	-
John Sullivan	C	31	WAS	TBD	$885,000	UFA	-
Jake Long	LT	31	MIN	TBD	$885,000	UFA	-
Ryan Wendell	C	30	CAR	TBD	$885,000	UFA	-
Benjamin Ijalana	LT	27	NYJ	TBD	$840,000	UFA	-
Chris Scott	G	29	CAR	TBD	$840,000	UFA	-
Jeff Linkenbach	RT	29	JAC	TBD	$810,000	UFA	-
A.Q. Shipley	C	30	ARI	TBD	$785,000	UFA	-
Tom Compton	G	27	ATL	TBD	$785,000	UFA	-
Larry Warford	G	25	DET	TBD	$768,750	UFA	-
Tony Hills	LT	32	NO	TBD	$760,000	UFA	-
Mike Adams	LT	26	CHI	TBD	$760,000	UFA	-
Sam Young	LT	29	MIA	TBD	$760,000	UFA	-
Vladimir Ducasse	G	29	BAL	TBD	$760,000	UFA	-
Michael Person	C	28	KC	TBD	$760,000	UFA	-
Brian Winters	G	25	NYJ	TBD	$725,969	UFA	-
Don Barclay	RT	27	GB	TBD	$700,000	UFA	-
Hugh Thornton	G	25	IND	TBD	$683,845	UFA	-
Nick Becton	LT	26	CHI	TBD	$675,000	UFA	-
Patrick Omameh	G	26	JAC	TBD	$675,000	UFA	-
Brian Schwenke	C	25	TEN	TBD	$656,065	UFA	-
Earl Watford	RT	26	ARI	TBD	$648,716	UFA	-
J.C. Tretter	C	25	GB	TBD	$643,977	UFA	-
Oday Aboushi	G	25	HOU	TBD	$589,750	UFA	-
Ricky Wagner	RT	27	BAL	TBD	$576,140	UFA	-
David Quessenberry	LT	26	HOU	TBD	$568,363	UFA	-
Manuel Ramirez	G	33	CHI	TBD	-	UFA	-

[varjet]

OT and QBs always go earlier in the draft than expected. 

There will not be a starting OT available to the Jets when they pick in the second round.  Look where the Colts took the Alabama center last year?

So who plays LT the next few years?  Whitworth until 37?   Kalil?   Clady for a fair price if he is better?   Reach in the draft?

I am fine cutting and trading on defense and rebuilding.  On offense, need to block for the developing QBs and give them someone to throw to. 

[neckdemon]

if you remember back when the chiefs offense was one of the best it was their o-line that anchored them also

[drdetroit]

17 hours ago, bitonti said:

Mac has shown himself to be a BAP guy in round one. it's super early but a defensive edge rusher seems most likely. Although a Peppers (or even Fournette) wouldn't be surprising either, if they fell. 

We really need to avoid defense first two rounds unless it's for a pass rusher

 

I'm so sick of picking mediocre defensive players every year