Beerfish Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I agree with The TheDominator if we are going true stop gap do it on the cheap. If we are going for a guy like Taylor or Glennon at least wait it out do not pay a premium for these guys, wait till the price comes way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Tyrod Taylor is a gimmicky type QB. He is never going to be an elite passer, but he makes plays and can win games. He could have won us a SB if we had him instead of Sanchez, but you need a great team around him and we don't have that now. Taylor is not worth the gamble because of his limited upside and because he will never carry a team. Glennon is a high risk, high reward. We haven't really seen enough. Could he be a franchise QB? Definitely, but he could also be Brock Osweiller. Is it worth the risk? Not really, but what do we have to lose? I'd be OK with giving him an Osweiller type deal where he gets big guaranteed money for 2017/2018 but nothing after that. Sounds crazy, but at least we'd have some hope that he'd be great and if he sucks and we go 2-14, we may get a franchise QB in next years draft. That would offset the big bucks Glennon would be getting for the following year. (And maybe Petty/Hack emerge in his place) Romo? No way. He is great, but he is old. Even if he comes in and turns things around for a year, we aren't building anything, we are just hanging around. I want a guy we can possibly have for a decade, not a stop gap. A boom or bust type QB is who we should be targeting imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think people are focusing way too much on this guy. He only counts 17m and 16m against the cap for Buffalo. I don't see them letting him go because he gets 27m in cash or because the next two years at those numbers are guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: I don't think anybody is suggesting that Taylor is not above the Hoyer level. Certainly not in upside. The question is, would you rather pay a Hoyer/McCown type $1-2M or Taylor/Glennon some $76M deal with $40M in guarantees at close to $20M per? I was fine with Fitzpatrick and fine with having him back, but not at real QB money. I am on record for Hoyer, but that is strictly at a sub-$3M per deal. I think you make a list of the available guys and decide who you are willing to roll with and the price you will pay. I would take Romo over all these guys for one game, but I'm sure his deal will be too rich for my blood. I would take a long hard look at a guy like Foles who might come in moderately priced or might also get an Osweiler styled deal. Hoyer/Mccown types would only guarantee us mediocrity for a year and take away snaps from Hack/Petty/Rookie. If Hoyer plays really good that gets us 8 wins and we miss out on all the possible franchise QBs coming out next year. No thanks At least with a guy like Glennon, he is young and has a chance to be a franchise QB. Even if he busts, next years draft is stocked with franchise type QBs, especially Darnold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Beerfish said: I agree with The TheDominator if we are going true stop gap do it on the cheap. If we are going for a guy like Taylor or Glennon at least wait it out do not pay a premium for these guys, wait till the price comes way down. That's the trouble. Once you decide that you can win with a QB you HAVE to move quick and pay. The contracts work like an on/off switch. If you can win with a guy it is $15-20M even with tons of question marks. If you can't, it is probably sub $5M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: I think people are focusing way too much on this guy. He only counts 17m and 16m against the cap for Buffalo. I don't see them letting him go because he gets 27m in cash or because the next two years at those numbers are guaranteed. He wants out after Buffalo benched him. And he elected to get surgery, without Buffalo's knowledge, so that if he fails his physical, he gets the $27M no matter what, since that money is guaranteed for injury reasons. Meanwhile, the Bills fired the Head Coach who was enamored with him, and would like to start with a clean slate at QB for their next HC hire. Safe to say the bridge has been burnt there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSteve Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 hours ago, thadude said: Watched plenty of Glennon. Calling him a check down guy is simply inaccurate How about overrated? This guy will be the next Matt Flynn of the NFL.....If he was so great, he would be starting over Winston, but he's not, sooooooo..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: Hoyer/Mccown types would only guarantee us mediocrity for a year and take away snaps from Hack/Petty/Rookie. If Hoyer plays really good that gets us 8 wins and we miss out on all the possible franchise QBs coming out next year. No thanks At least with a guy like Glennon, he is young and has a chance to be a franchise QB. Even if he busts, next years draft is stocked with franchise type QBs, especially Darnold. So "even if he busts" you can get Darnold? But you will be out $40M+. That doesn't bother you? There were plenty of snaps there for Hack/Petty/Rookie and they went to Fitzpatrick because those guys weren't ready and may never be ready. If Hack/Petty/Your Rookie can't beat out Brian Hoyer or Josh McCown they can rot on the bench where they belong. Besides, while no coach is looking to go 8-8, the front office is certainly not going to tank for a QB in 2018. It may be a nice idea for mutts on a message board, but those guys will not be around to play with the new toy. If they get #1 overall, they are all gone. Just like that mook Idzik saving all that cap. Was he around to spend it? At least he supposedly had an excuse - trying to get Rex fired. Well his plan worked, but not for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 You guys figure this one out yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, CanadaSteve said: How about overrated? This guy will be the next Matt Flynn of the NFL.....If he was so great, he would be starting over Winston, but he's not, sooooooo..... You can add Matt Flynn to the list of guys I would have started before paying Fitzpatrick more than $10M per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 2 hours ago, AFJF said: Yes, I was saying I've watched more of his games from his first two seasons in that time frame. Really?! Sounds very believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 27 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: I don't think anybody is suggesting that Taylor is not above the Hoyer level. Certainly not in upside. The question is, would you rather pay a Hoyer/McCown type $1-2M or Taylor/Glennon some $76M deal with $40M in guarantees at close to $20M per? If that indeed were the market price of the QB's you listed above, yes, I'd go with the cheaper option. Not a chance I'm paying that kind of coin to Glennon or Taylo. But I think the amount we'd pay a Hoyer/McCown would definitely exceed $1-2M, and I very strongly doubt Taylor or Glennon could demand the kind of contract you're stating. Just how many teams out there are willing to make a 4+ year commitment to either of those QB's? Because that's what a contract with numbers like that would signify. 3 years, $15M per with $20-25M in guarantees and the ability to escape the deal after 2 years sounds more like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, phill1c said: Really?! Sounds very believable. Are you suggesting it would be difficult to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: You guys figure this one out yet? Some people want Tyrod Taylor to be the Jets QB next year. Then again...some do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, #27TheDominator said: So "even if he busts" you can get Darnold? But you will be out $40M+. That doesn't bother you? There were plenty of snaps there for Hack/Petty/Rookie and they went to Fitzpatrick because those guys weren't ready and may never be ready. If Hack/Petty/Your Rookie can't beat out Brian Hoyer or Josh McCown they can rot on the bench where they belong. Besides, while no coach is looking to go 8-8, the front office is certainly not going to tank for a QB in 2018. It may be a nice idea for mutts on a message board, but those guys will not be around to play with the new toy. If they get #1 overall, they are all gone. Just like that mook Idzik saving all that cap. Was he around to spend it? At least he supposedly had an excuse - trying to get Rex fired. Well his plan worked, but not for him. If Hack/Petty don't beat out Hoyer and Hoyer plays well, we are guaranteed a 10-15 type draft pick and no shot at a franchise QB. At least with Glennon we have a chance at a franchise QB. Being out the money sucks, but worrying about 2017/2018 money is short sighted. We aren't a year or two away from winning a SB without the sudden development of a franchise QB anyway. We have to think outside the box and not worry about getting as many wins as possible next season. Hoyer will just turn a 5 win team into an 8 win team. That is far worse than wasting 20 million in 2017 and 20 million in 2018 (years that we aren't likely to be good anyway). Plus Brady will still be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 At this stage of the game Jets fans are intrigued by any QB capable of winning games and not getting injured. Nothing else matters until we get a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: Some people want Tyrod Taylor to be the Jets QB next year. Then again; some do not. If the Jets don't get a legitimate starting quarterback this off season, I will be very upset, and will start a thread to express as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, AFJF said: Are you suggesting it would be difficult to do so? I'm suggesting that your bro-mance with this loser is pretty pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 minute ago, AFJF said: If the Jets don't get a legitimate starting quarterback this off season, I will be very upset, and will start a thread to express as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, phill1c said: I'm suggesting that your bro-mance with this loser is pretty pathetic. What can I say? I'm a Jets fan in favor of bringing in a young QB who has shown he can perform in the pro's against elite defenses. I know, pretty pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: If that indeed were the market price of the QB's you listed above, yes, I'd go with the cheaper option. Not a chance I'm paying that kind of coin to Glennon or Taylo. But I think the amount we'd pay a Hoyer/McCown would definitely exceed $1-2M, and I very strongly doubt Taylor or Glennon could demand the kind of contract you're stating. Just how many teams out there are willing to make a 4+ year commitment to either of those QB's? Because that's what a contract with numbers like that would signify. 3 years, $15M per with $20-25M in guarantees and the ability to escape the deal after 2 years sounds more like it. We will see. I think the market is going up and Osweiler got $72M for 4 with $37M guaranteed. Taylor is already making $17M per. You think he is going to take a cut? Glennon never got paid, so he might come cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: We will see. I think the market is going up and Osweiler got $72M for 4 with $37M guaranteed. Taylor is already making $17M per. You think he is going to take a cut? Glennon never got paid, so he might come cheaper. Difference is, Taylor is headed into the FA market coming off a Week 17 benching and offseason surgery. And I think a lot of people around the league might look at that Osweiler deal and the abject failure that it was, and the market will adjust accordingly. Taylor will still get really good money, but not Osweiler money IMO. What obviously matters most is how many teams out there have the willingness and ability to hand Taylor/Glennon a multiyear contract and proclaim them their Week 1 starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, AFJF said: What can I say? I'm a Jets fan in favor of bringing in a young QB who has shown he can perform in the pro's against elite defenses. I know, pretty pathetic. I would bring up a paraphrase of the Parcells' quote "you are what your position says you are..." and his current backup status suggests that nobody who is paid to judge thinks he can perform in the pros against elite defenses. I mean, wow, you actually said that?! If Glennon were all that, how is it that 1) TB was in a position to draft Winston, and 2) drafted him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, phill1c said: I would bring up a paraphrase of the Parcells' quote "you are what your position says you are..." and his current backup status suggests that nobody who is paid to judge thinks he can perform in the pros against elite defenses. I mean, wow, you actually said that?! If Glennon were all that, how is it that 1) TB was in a position to draft Winston, and 2) drafted him? Why did the Chargers draft Phillip Rivers when they already had Drew Brees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 minute ago, AFJF said: Why did the Chargers draft Phillip Rivers when they already had Drew Brees? Good comeback. I have no idea...Difference is, the Chargers traded Drew Brees because someone else wanted him enough to trade for him. Why wasn't Glennon traded? You know, cause he's performed so well against elite defenses...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: If Hack/Petty don't beat out Hoyer and Hoyer plays well, we are guaranteed a 10-15 type draft pick and no shot at a franchise QB. At least with Glennon we have a chance at a franchise QB. Being out the money sucks, but worrying about 2017/2018 money is short sighted. We aren't a year or two away from winning a SB without the sudden development of a franchise QB anyway. We have to think outside the box and not worry about getting as many wins as possible next season. Hoyer will just turn a 5 win team into an 8 win team. That is far worse than wasting 20 million in 2017 and 20 million in 2018 (years that we aren't likely to be good anyway). Plus Brady will still be around. I don't think I follow. When I first read this, I thought you wanted to spend big in 2017/2018 to get Glennon so that we could tank for a franchise QB. Now I get the idea that you think Glennon might be a franchise QB. Problem with that theory is that if Maccagnan thought Glennon was a potential franchise QB, he should be fired immediately for not getting him during the 2015 offseason. The guy has been shopped for years with no takers. I would rather have given the #2 and found out without spending $40M for the privilege + another $18M on 2 years of Fitzpatrick. I don't see how worrying about future money is shortsighted. Guys pop up all the time. I would rather be financially flexible to make moves when necessary. I know you mean money is meaningless compared to getting a QB, but IMO paying a stiff because there is a slim chance he isn't a stiff is bad business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, phill1c said: Good comeback. I have no idea...Difference is, the Chargers traded Drew Brees because someone else wanted him enough to trade for him. Why wasn't Glennon traded? You know, cause he's performed so well against elite defenses...LOL The Bucs liked him enough to put a 1st round price tag on him. Even as somebody who likes him, I wouldn't have done that. Just because Tampa Bay mishandled him, doesn't mean nobody wants him. We'll find out in a couple of months if he's in demand or not. If he sucks, he'll get a few million a year to be a back up again. If he's well regarded, he'll get starter money and a shot at a starting job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King P Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, phill1c said: I would bring up a paraphrase of the Parcells' quote "you are what your position says you are..." and his current backup status suggests that nobody who is paid to judge thinks he can perform in the pros against elite defenses. I mean, wow, you actually said that?! If Glennon were all that, how is it that 1) TB was in a position to draft Winston, and 2) drafted him? 1) McCown was the starter most of the season, not Glennon (he played pretty well in the games he started IIRC). 2) Winston was an elite QB prospect and is on his way to being an elite QB. So that's not really an indictment on Glennon. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Difference is, Taylor is headed into the FA market coming off a Week 17 benching and offseason surgery. And I think a lot of people around the league might look at that Osweiler deal and the abject failure that it was, and the market will adjust accordingly. Taylor will still get really good money, but not Osweiler money IMO. What obviously matters most is how many teams out there have the willingness and ability to hand Taylor/Glennon a multiyear contract and proclaim them their Week 1 starter. So hypothetical for you: Tyrod, Glennon and Kirk Cousins all hit the market. All are asking for $18M/Year for 4 Years. Who do you sign and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Yep...And maybe you won't have to watch TB games to get your Glennon fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: He wants out after Buffalo benched him. And he elected to get surgery, without Buffalo's knowledge, so that if he fails his physical, he gets the $27M no matter what, since that money is guaranteed for injury reasons. Meanwhile, the Bills fired the Head Coach who was enamored with him, and would like to start with a clean slate at QB for their next HC hire. Safe to say the bridge has been burnt there. Almost, None of that is true. He's walked back his statements about being sat out. The Bills have said it was mistake to bench him due to off the field business reasons. It's also come out that the Bills staff was involved with the decision for him to get surgery and the reports he didn't came from Buffalo's version of Manish and was inaccurate. As for the guarantee, it's likely he doesn't meet his contract's standard. Surgery for an ongoing issue that doesn't cause a medical problem for playing wouldn't be enough to trigger the guarantee. Considering he made statements that he was upset that he didn't play the final game while suffering from the issue, if he decided to try to get the money from the Bills, he's have a tough time making the case. If he can't pass a physical, but would be able to do so at the start of free agency then and the Bills don't want to keep him as of March 11th then he'd likely work a mutual parting of ways that doesn't invoke the injury clause(teams aren't going to like a player who has elective surgery, tries to invoke an injury guarantee). The Bills could just pay him and use the offset language in the contract for the injury guarantee, but if the clause is invoked, they could just keep him anyway as he'd be ready for the season. So let's recap: 1. Bills were involved with choice for surgery (rumor was based off Bills statement saying "They were informed of the decision." which a reporter ran with as "not sounding like they were involved"..) 2. He's likely to remain on the team if injured since Buffalo would be paying for him anyway and he'd be ready for the season. 3. Bills haven't hired a head coach yet. Have said that any decision would wait on HC hire 3. Rift between Taylor and team isn't that serious and they have made nice-nice public statements since 4. Taylor sucks at throwing a football and had the #1 running game in the NFL If after all of this, you think Taylor is going to be a free agent and is worth the ~20 mill or so for 3-4 years then you're putting a lot of hope for a lot of factors to all fall in favor of that scenario for a guy who isn't great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King P Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, phill1c said: Good comeback. I have no idea...Difference is, the Chargers traded Drew Brees because someone else wanted him enough to trade for him. Why wasn't Glennon traded? You know, cause he's performed so well against elite defenses...LOL San Diego never traded Brees though, he walked in free agency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Warfish said: So hypothetical for you: Tyrod, Glennon and Kirk Cousins all hit the market. All are asking for $18M/Year for 4 Years. Who do you sign and why? Geez. NONE!! Especially after the Fitzpatrick experience. Have we learned nothing about giving starter's money to just anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, King P said: 1) McCown was the starter most of the season, not Glennon (he played pretty well in the games he started IIRC). 2) Winston was an elite QB prospect and is on his way to being an elite QB. So that's not really an indictment on Glennon. Just saying It kinda IS an indictment of how good the people who coached him think of his talent. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Warfish said: So hypothetical for you: Tyrod, Glennon and Kirk Cousins all hit the market. All are asking for $18M/Year for 4 Years. Who do you sign and why? My wish list would be Cousins then Taylor, and I'd tell Glennon to f*ck off at that price tag. Cousins has put up about Top 10 QB production, by every available metric, the last 2 years, so he would definitely be the preferred choice. However, I don't anticipate Cousins to hit the open market. All signs point towards Taylor and of course Glennon getting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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