Bowles Sees no Need to Play Young QB’s

[Pennington]

9 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Exactly what will happen 

 

btw you don’t see the giants tolerating losing

The Giants won't tolerate losing after the season is over when they fire Reese and Macadoo but they are absolutely trying to lose now which is the right thing to do. If they cared anything about the results the rest of this season Macadoo would be gone. They know that the team has quit on him and he is the right guy to lead them to 1-15.

[Philc1]

Just now, Pennington said:

The Giants won't tolerate losing after the season is over when they fire Reese and Macadoo but they are absolutely trying to lose now which is the right thing to do. If they cared anything about the results the rest of this season Macadoo would be gone. They know that the team has quit on him and he is the right guy to lead them to 1-15.

There’s no point firing a coach mideseason.  Spagnolo is just as much at fault maybe even more so why reward him

 

In the long run the giants are so blessed with yet another big break they will probably get Sam Darnold while the Mehtas, Costello’s and Vachianos get to tell us jets fans what a great 6-10 season we had and we’re stuck with the dumbest head coach, dumbest GM and mCown and 2 scrubs backing him up for at least 2 more years

 

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

That's highly unlikely as he would never get another job. 

Hack is going nowhere near the field this year.  Macc knows that is the only way he doesn’t come back next season if Hack gets exposed in a regular season game and a media circus ensues

[jetgreen13]

Just now, Beerfish said:

If neither one can take a snap once the playoffs are out of the question ahead of McCown then there is no way either should be back next year.

i would agree with you if bowles was not playing a zero sum game..

 

[Jet Life]

Hackenberg wouldn't start a game in the CFL, hes one of the worst QBs to ever step foot in this league. Football is dangerous, it would be unfair to play him. He could get himself or someone else very hurt. You have to think about these guys futures beyond football and Hackenberg is still young and can carve out another career. Its in Maccagnans best interest to hide Hackenberg and bury him down the depth chart. I think Petty could potentially be a solid backup so wouldn't mind seeing more of him down the stretch.

[Philc1]

Just now, Jet Life said:

Hackenberg wouldn't start a game in the CFL, hes one of the worst QBs to ever step foot in this league. Football is dangerous, it would be unfair to play him. He could get himself or someone else very hurt. You have to think about these guys futures beyond football and Hackenberg is still young and can carve out another career. I think Petty could potentially be a solid backup so wouldn't mind seeing more of him down the stretch.

Yeah but at least Hack would get free healthcare if he got injured sucking it up in the CFL

[Jet Life]

19 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

The fact that the GM cannot intervene here and demand that Bowles play Petty and/or Hackenberg is maddening and just highlights the dysfunction that exists in this organization and why it will continue to spin its wheels and go nowhere year after year. 

He picked that bum Hackenberg. Its in Maccs best interest he keeps him hidden as long as possible. Hed sign Testeverdes corpes over playing Hackenberg

[Philc1]

Just now, Jet Life said:

He picked that bum Hackenberg. Its in Maccs best interest he keeps him hidden as long as possible. Hed sign Testeverdes corpes over playing Hackenberg

Jeremy Kerley would play at qb if both McCown and Petty got hurt.  Not even kidding

[Warfish]

17 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Yeah i love reading your ground breaking insight about Hack having physical tools he just needs 3 full regular seasons a starter before NFL coaching staffs with decades of experience can evaluate him

Are you really this ignorant?  No one, least of all me, said anything resembling that.

There is no reason to cut a 22/23 year old in year 2 of his four year, cheap deal, until you have something better.  

Today we don't have anything better.  McCown is a rental, Petty is equally poor.

After FA and the Draft next year, we'll likely (hopefully) have better #1 and #2.  No harm is done keeping Hack as the #3.  The real cost is already paid, the opportunity cost is minimal.  

If we want to spend two draft picks this coming year on QB's, that's fine.  I would hardly complain, as I made clear, I didn't like the Hack pick at all, and I don't like what I've seen so far. 

But I'd rather use that pick, no matter where it is in the later rounds, on an O-lineman rather than a new long-shot-talent #3 QB.

Can't fix everything in one year, even with alot of cap space.  

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, Pcola said:

This is on both Mac and Bowles.  HC refuses to play young QBs, then WTF are they on the roster for?  Cut them both and bring in more.  Basically Bowles is saying that’s petry and Hack can’t even compete with a JAG whose ceiling is going 4-6 with a team that is no where near as good as their record.  

And when we don’t make the playoffs and aren’t picking in the top 10, we can all ask the question, how much better off are we from having played McCown over Petty?  The answer is we are no better.

Good times.   

 

Here you go, coach. I've given you a veteran QB and a pair of veteran WRs who are now clearly better than the kids.

But don't play them. No, goodness no. Do not play them unless you can guarantee 9+ victories in advance.

So you should bench them and keep them on the bench, even though every player and coach in the locker room knows they're superior players right now, and you'll knowingly finish with a low W/L record to rest upon when it's time to see if you're retained for 2018.

Of course if you do bench them, and then only finish with the expected low win total, while also losing the locker room for benching your best players, you'll pay the price for that as well. In coordination with our slimy beat writers I'll recommend Johnson & Johnson fire you for force-feeding unready kids as starters over veterans that are clearly and noticeably better, causing us to not only lose games, but also I'll sell it as you stunting their growth and ruining them, by putting them on the field before they were ready.

lol

As you say, if we don't want the HC to play the best players during a veteran-purge season, then maybe they shouldn't have been acquired during such a season in the first place.

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No Hackenbrug was an awful awful awful pick the day it was made. 

I didn't debate that, and that's exactly what I posted at the time.

[Sperm Edwards]

18 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Which implies that Bowles is throwing Maccagnan directly under the bus here, which may be his intent. If that’s the case, it’ll be in Macc’s interest to get his resume up on Monster.com before the end of the season. However, the more likely scenario is that Bowles is a clown who simply wants a veteran QB to help him and his band of safeties win games 20-17, which is anathema to competing for a championship in the NFL. Bowles runs the team exactly how a position coach runs a team, with little regard for any position other than the one he knows how to coach.

Bowles is behaving like any other person whose job is on shaky ground: he's going to do what he thinks is best to ensure he stays employed. So long as there's a chance of winning 7-8 games with this sorry roster, he's going to try and reach that total. If you want to force the kids onto the field, then don't provide him insta-starter veterans with which to try and pad his W/L record.

Bowles doesn't care that there's no on-paper benefit - let alone the obvious future downside - if the team finishes with eking out 7 wins instead of finishing with the preseason expectation of 2-4 wins. On the contrary, he will benefit more if the former occurs, while he'll surely get fired for the latter. Sure the Jets will theoretically have a worse team for the long-term, and the kids won't get mulligan playing time in a mulligan season, but he'll personally be in a better position for an extension (or a second chance at a HCing gig if/when he's cut loose by the Jets).

Entering this season, Bowles had a 15-17 record as HC of the NYJ, and is coming off a 5-win season in 2016. Anyone who expects him to do anything that would result in even 1 less win by season's end is simply kidding himself. Especially when he'd simultaneously lose the locker room for benching obviously-better veterans in favor of obviously-worse kids. The best you're going to get is him giving Hackenpetty some playing time after we're officially, mathematically eliminated. 

Of course this would end up as the one season in his career that McCown stays upright. Remember the predictions that he wouldn't last to the end of September behind this OL? Good times.

J!

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Bowles is behaving like any other person whose job is on shaky ground: he's going to do what he thinks is best to ensure he stays employed. So long as there's a chance of winning 7-8 games with this sorry roster, he's going to try and reach that total. If you want to force the kids onto the field, then don't provide him insta-starter veterans with which to try and pad his W/L record.

Bowles doesn't care that there's no on-paper benefit - let alone the obvious future downside - if the team finishes with eking out 7 wins instead of finishing with the preseason expectation of 2-4 wins. On the contrary, he will benefit more if the former occurs, while he'll surely get fired for the latter. Sure the Jets will theoretically have a worse team for the long-term, and the kids won't get mulligan playing time in a mulligan season, but he'll personally be in a better position for an extension (or a second chance at a HCing gig if/when he's cut loose by the Jets).

Entering this season, Bowles had a 15-17 record as HC of the NYJ, and is coming off a 5-win season in 2016. Anyone who expects him to do anything that would result in even 1 less win by season's end is simply kidding himself. Especially when he'd simultaneously lose the locker room for benching obviously-better veterans in favor of obviously-worse kids. The best you're going to get is him giving Hackenpetty some playing time after we're officially, mathematically eliminated. 

Of course this would end up as the one season in his career that McCown stays upright. Remember the predictions that he wouldn't last to the end of September behind this OL? Good times.

J!

all true and i will add that if mccagnan had any faith in either of his drafted qbs he wouldn't have signed mccown before the draft.  in a purge/rebuilding year it would have been easy not to sign a veteran.  what mccagnan won't say is that 1) he knows petty is a backup and hack sucks, 2) bowles was always going to start mccown, and 3) he was fully expecting to draft a qb in 2018 so everyone would hopefully forget about hackenberg.  

mccags signed kerley too, he obviously knew kerley would play over stewart and hansen.  that's how bowles rolls, he's easy to predict.

[southtown24th]

This is a major problem.

[UnitedWhofans]

6 minutes ago, southtown24th said:

This is a major problem.

Why?

[shuler82]

If the young QBs aren't good enough to play they shouldn't be on the roster, and if they're on the roster they should be good enough to play.

I don't think we can fault Bowles at this point for not benching McCown. They're 4-6 and still competitive. I think the problem most fans have is that we've seen how this plays out already... and by judging from Bowles comments, we all already know how this will play out in 2018- Unless McCown gets hurt or unless the Jets get to 10 losses (and even then, it's iffy) we wont see either of the young QBs.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, shuler82 said:

If the young QBs aren't good enough to play they shouldn't be on the rosters.

 

Wrong because you need backup plans

[shuler82]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Wrong because you need backup plans

i can't even. but i guess i will.

The Jets are trotting out a 38 year old JAG journeyman week in and week out. if neither draft pick is good enough to play over him, even in a season that's about to be lost, then they shouldn't have been on the team. I'll concede Warfish's point about Hack - maybe at 22, and as a 3rd stringer, he's a long term 'project'.. But your #2 who's in year 3 in the league should be able to get on the field.

[Dink and Drunk]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Bowles is behaving like any other person whose job is on shaky ground: he's going to do what he thinks is best to ensure he stays employed. So long as there's a chance of winning 7-8 games with this sorry roster, he's going to try and reach that total. If you want to force the kids onto the field, then don't provide him insta-starter veterans with which to try and pad his W/L record.

Bowles doesn't care that there's no on-paper benefit - let alone the obvious future downside - if the team finishes with eking out 7 wins instead of finishing with the preseason expectation of 2-4 wins. On the contrary, he will benefit more if the former occurs, while he'll surely get fired for the latter. Sure the Jets will theoretically have a worse team for the long-term, and the kids won't get mulligan playing time in a mulligan season, but he'll personally be in a better position for an extension (or a second chance at a HCing gig if/when he's cut loose by the Jets).

Entering this season, Bowles had a 15-17 record as HC of the NYJ, and is coming off a 5-win season in 2016. Anyone who expects him to do anything that would result in even 1 less win by season's end is simply kidding himself. Especially when he'd simultaneously lose the locker room for benching obviously-better veterans in favor of obviously-worse kids. The best you're going to get is him giving Hackenpetty some playing time after we're officially, mathematically eliminated. 

Of course this would end up as the one season in his career that McCown stays upright. Remember the predictions that he wouldn't last to the end of September behind this OL? Good times.

J!

 

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

all true and i will add that if mccagnan had any faith in either of his drafted qbs he wouldn't have signed mccown before the draft.  in a purge/rebuilding year it would have been easy not to sign a veteran.  what mccagnan won't say is that 1) he knows petty is a backup and hack sucks, 2) bowles was always going to start mccown, and 3) he was fully expecting to draft a qb in 2018 so everyone would hopefully forget about hackenberg.  

mccags signed kerley too, he obviously knew kerley would play over stewart and hansen.  that's how bowles rolls, he's easy to predict.

I am an outsider, but I completely agree both of these posts. Bowles is attempting to do exactly what the FO asked of him this offseason; show as much team improvement as possible. You can't ask him to do that, and then force him to change to worse a QB. Well you can, but good luck getting another good HC after.

As for next year, I think the Jets should do the following:

1. Re-sign McCown or another QB with some playing experience such as AJ McCarron. Do not overpay however, and keep deals short term.

2. Draft the QB who you think he the greatest chance of becoming a good starting QB. Don't worry about how "NFL ready" QB is day 1.

3. Retain one of the two young QBs to act as a back-up.

---

The reasoning:

This allows the Jets to function as a team next year. It does not force their hand into trying to draft a day 1 ready QB. It will make the rookie QB earn it, rather than just handing him the job. It also means that the rookie QB can completely focus on development. He does not have to learn the exact details of the game-plan each weak. 

 

[Dink and Drunk]

Just now, shuler82 said:

i can't even. but i guess i will.

The Jets are trotting out a 38 year old JAG journeyman week in and week out. if neither draft pick is good enough to play over him, even in a season that's about to be lost, then they shouldn't have been on the team. I'll concede Warfish's point about Hack - maybe at 22, and as a 3rd stringer, he's a long term 'project'.. But your #2 who's in year 3 in the league should be able to get on the field.

Why pay more for a back-up if your team is not in win-now mode? What does it accomplish? They have Petty on a rookie deal.

[UnitedWhofans]

12 minutes ago, Dink and Drunk said:

Why pay more for a back-up if your team is not in win-now mode? What does it accomplish? They have Petty on a rookie deal.

Bingo

[section314]

26 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

i can't even. but i guess i will.

The Jets are trotting out a 38 year old JAG journeyman week in and week out. if neither draft pick is good enough to play over him, even in a season that's about to be lost, then they shouldn't have been on the team. I'll concede Warfish's point about Hack - maybe at 22, and as a 3rd stringer, he's a long term 'project'.. But your #2 who's in year 3 in the league should be able to get on the field.

This is it in a nutshell. The Jets must think Petty stinks, pure and simple. As bad as Hack looked at times this preseason, they still must think he is miles better than Petty. 

[Warfish]

41 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

They're 4-6 and still competitive.

Competitive for what, exactly?

Are you going to argue that this team can still make the playoffs?

Against our remaining schedule?

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Are you really this ignorant?  No one, least of all me, said anything resembling that.

There is no reason to cut a 22/23 year old in year 2 of his four year, cheap deal, until you have something better.  

Today we don't have anything better.  McCown is a rental, Petty is equally poor.

After FA and the Draft next year, we'll likely (hopefully) have better #1 and #2.  No harm is done keeping Hack as the #3.  The real cost is already paid, the opportunity cost is minimal.  

If we want to spend two draft picks this coming year on QB's, that's fine.  I would hardly complain, as I made clear, I didn't like the Hack pick at all, and I don't like what I've seen so far. 

But I'd rather use that pick, no matter where it is in the later rounds, on an O-lineman rather than a new long-shot-talent #3 QB.

Can't fix everything in one year, even with alot of cap space.  

Didn’t read!

[Warfish]

Just now, Philc1 said:

Didn’t read!

You rarely do.

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, section314 said:

This is it in a nutshell. The Jets must think Petty stinks, pure and simple. As bad as Hack looked at times this preseason, they still must think he is miles better than Petty. 

They don’t think Petty stinks they know it

 

and Hack playing regular season football would get Macc and Bowles both fired 

[Philc1]

Just now, Warfish said:

You rarely do.

No i read stuff that isn’t mindless drivel

[section314]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

They don’t think Petty stinks they know it

 

and Hack playing regular season football would get Macc and Bowles both fired 

[jetgreen13]

26 minutes ago, Dink and Drunk said:

 

I am an outsider, but I completely agree both of these posts. Bowles is attempting to do exactly what the FO asked of him this offseason; show as much team improvement as possible. You can't ask him to do that, and then force him to change to worse a QB. Well you can, but good luck getting another good HC after.

As for next year, I think the Jets should do the following:

1. Re-sign McCown or another QB with some playing experience such as AJ McCarron. Do not overpay however, and keep deals short term.

2. Draft the QB who you think he the greatest chance of becoming a good starting QB. Don't worry about how "NFL ready" QB is day 1.

3. Retain one of the two young QBs to act as a back-up.

---

The reasoning:

This allows the Jets to function as a team next year. It does not force their hand into trying to draft a day 1 ready QB. It will make the rookie QB earn it, rather than just handing him the job. It also means that the rookie QB can completely focus on development. He does not have to learn the exact details of the game-plan each weak. 

 

so essentially, allow bowles to continue to start veteran JAG QBs, over unproven talent.. & of course, that unproven talent remains as such, because the HC will hold onto whoever ends being the veteran JAG QB like grime death..

how many times do you need to watch that movie before you understand the ending??

[Skeet Ulrich]

4 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

so essentially, allow bowles to continue to start veteran JAG QBs, over unproven talent.. & of course, that unproven talent remains as such, because the HC will hold onto whoever ends being the veteran JAG QB like grime death..

how many times do you need to watch that movie before you understand the ending??

Note: that poster is a Pats fan.

 

[Dink and Drunk]

Just now, jetgreen13 said:

so essentially, allow bowles to continue to start veteran JAG QBs, over unproven talent.. & of course, that unproven talent remains as such, because the HC will hold onto whoever ends being the veteran JAG QB like grime death..

how many times do you need to watch that movie before you understand the ending??

Well, the alternative was what seemed to happen with Geno. Decide before hand that you are going to go with the rookie, and have a fake QB competition. How did that one work out.

Good QBs can prove themselves in camp. Wilson won the job, he was not expected to start ASAP. Brady started as QB#2, and rose up the depth chart quickly. Why not make your QB earn it just a bit?

[Dink and Drunk]

2 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Note: that poster is a Pats fan.

 

I am not trolling. I am giving an honest opinion of your best course of action. If I wanted to troll I would not have told you I was a Pats fan.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Dink and Drunk said:

Well, the alternative was what seemed to happen with Geno. Decide before hand that you are going to go with the rookie, and have a fake QB competition. How did that one work out.

Good QBs can prove themselves in camp. Wilson won the job, he was not expected to start ASAP. Brady started as QB#2, and rose up the depth chart quickly. Why not make your QB earn it just a bit?

We’re the jets we are supposed to be a social welfare program for bad young quarterbacks 

[CanadaSteve]

To me, this is Bowles showing his hand here.

IF he was safe this year, he would be playing the young guys and seeing what he has so the team can assess the QB's on the team and plan for drafting next year.

But by playing McCown, this tells me he is NOT safe, and that the only way to 'prove' he is worth keeping is to win as many games with a team that was picked to come dead last. 

It really is the only thing that makes sense to me as to why Josh McCown keeps getting sent out there every week.

[Beerfish]

9 minutes ago, Dink and Drunk said:

I am not trolling. I am giving an honest opinion of your best course of action. If I wanted to troll I would not have told you I was a Pats fan.

If Todd bowels was the coach of the pats way back when, Bledsoe would have been reinstated as the starting QB as soon as he became healthy.