When hindsight comes around will Cousins’ FA deal...

[JetFaninMI]

4 hours ago, Gangrene said:

 

This deserves it's own thread... McCloughan on Cousins, a ex-GM who might actually have insight on Cousins.

I wonder if the Patriots will combine the 49'ers pick with their own pick to attempt to move up for Mayfield...

Good point. I had a hard time wondering why BB would trade JimmyG when Brady is getting up there in age. He may have his eye on a QB. All of the Cousins guys should take notice.

 

[SAR I]

NO

MORE

KIRK

COUSINS

THREADS

SAR I

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, JetFaninMI said:

See here's why you're not taken seriously. That wasn't the whole case I made but you cherry pick the argument for the points you think you can defend. It's the major flaw in every argument you try to make. 

Whaaaaaat am I missing in this oniony layered bit? Don’t sign Cousins because:

- Not enoughs wins or playoff wins for the money

- An analyst no one’s hired since he failed to sign Cousins offers that you also need a good team 

- They lack the talent to lure Cousins

- The Jets can sign more FAs

Play poster therapist to dance around those flaws all day err day but all of those has major flaws. 

[JetFaninMI]

6 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Whaaaaaat am I missing in this oniony layered bit? Don’t sign Cousins because:

- Not enoughs wins or playoff wins for the money

- An analyst no one’s hired since he failed to sign Cousins offers that you also need a good team 

- They lack the talent to lure Cousins

- The Jets can sign more FAs

Play poster therapist to dance around those flaws all day err day but all of those has major flaws. 

You really are Amoretz.

1. NO. He put up the stats in those games but his teams never went anywhere. That usually means those are garbage time stats and the team didn't get it done. YOU blame everyone but Cousins when he must be held accountable for some of it.

2. Yes the ex-GM of the Skins who observed him on a day to day basis did say that. The part YOU left out was his current coach agreed with that assessment. Once again you cherry pick.

3. They have so many holes on a roster that is right now,the same or worse than the current Skins Roster. Why would Cousins make a move that is essentially a lateral one? Your response is to sign a boat load of FA's who you think will magically come together and win immediately. This is called the quick fix. The Jets have tried this many times under different regimes AND FAILED EACH TIME. Yet you ignore this or brush it off as bullsh*t.

4. Yes the Jets could pay two top tier FA's for the price of Cousins. If the top guys do hit the market and are not tagged wouldn't it be smarter to have the resources to snag one or two of them instead of putting most of those resources into one player? Especially since their current skill players suck?  And yes they do suck.

Enunwa  is a question mark. Anderson is a head case. They lack an every down back. The TE position is barren at best, the OL is inconsistent at best. They need two CB's, an edge rusher, their LB's leave a lot to be desired and their HC is a man who cannot or will not make in game adjustments to his game plan. Their GM for the most part has shown no ability to make good early round choices in the draft and plays it safe by taking who he considers the BPA every time. Despite all of these faults you expect a guy who is entering his age 30 season to ignore all of it and sign on the dotted line merely because you want it to be so. You ignore all of this because you want to have a franchise QB. I get it, I do but what you cannot or will not comprehend is why would Cousins want to come here with all of that baggage? Why come to a team that has so many questions and its HC and GM could be gone in a year or two? A team that currently has no OC and has a defensive oriented HC who wants to take more of a hand in the Offense? Despite all of that you believe that this attractive to players who will be free to go where ever they please. Simply having the cap space will not be enough. This team currently has no direction and its leadership from the Owner on down to the HC is suspect. Need I go on? Of course I expect you to ignore most of this post and just write your usual sunshine and lollipop bullsh*t.

The Jets need to draft young guys who can grow together and build a solid foundation to not only contend but contend for years. They need to augment those draft choices through FA not rely on FA to build. The quick fix route has failed miserably every time it has been tried by this franchise but you ignore  it. I don't expect you to comprehend this based on your other posts but it is the hard truth. Until this is realized the crap carousel will continue and the malaise this team is mired in will continue. Does this penetrate that Amoretz skull of yours? Probably not.

[SenorGato]

8 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

Does this penetrate that Amoretz skull of yours? Probably not.

Your thinking is all over the place and convenient when it needs to be. All stats can be dismissed as garbage because of W-L record. One minute FAs are a quick fix with Cousins, the next it’s about how they can pay more FAs. One minute they’re not talented enough to lure Cousins, the next they can lure multiple big money FAs. Also some guy no one’s hired since he missed on Cousins says he isn’t some nebulous definition of special and you need a good team as well. 

There are reasons for Cousins to pass on the Jets - the Vikings and Jaguars are way better and have money. There are zero good reasons for the Jets to actively pass on Cousins, it requires some really topsy turvy thinking to get there. 

[jetstream23]

Lots of guys who were previously considered back ups or below average starters, as well as recent first round picks are setting up for huge pay days. Winston, Mariota, Keenum, Foles, Bortles, Wentz and Goff, etc. 

[BurnleyJet]

If I'm the Jags I'm breaking the bank to bring Kirk to the pan handle.

[bla bla bla]

IMO paying Cousins $28M helps us more than over paying 2 or 3 non QBs plus trading up for a rookie. 

That's more so because I don't believe there are enough good FAs to pay. I think we can still target key FAs once we sign Cousins with +$70m not to mention they'd likely be cheaper or be more enticed to come here once we have a QB. We can say we can sign 3 good to great players for what it costs to sign Cousins but there are a ton of other teams will a lot of money so realistically without a QB we aren't going to land all these elite non QBs.

My guess is the majority of FAs will want to go to the 49ers after seeing what Jimmy G did to end the season.

[bla bla bla]

8 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

If I'm the Jags I'm breaking the bank to bring Kirk to the pan handle.

They probably should and just go all in for the next 2 years. Then spend all their picks on offense because they'll be losing Hurns, Lee, and Robinson plus whoever else to sign him. Although it may be a non issue if the Skins use the Transition Tag on Cousins.

[SenorGato]

5 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

If I'm the Jags I'm breaking the bank to bring Kirk to the pan handle.

Vikings too

[Philc1]

14 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

If I'm the Jags I'm breaking the bank to bring Kirk to the pan handle.

Bortles was fine today 

[BurnleyJet]

Just now, SenorGato said:

Vikings too

I think Case has been great, the Jags have bigger problems at QB.

Although no ones has bad as the Jets at QB. 

[BurnleyJet]

Just now, Philc1 said:

Bortles was fine today 

For the first 3 quarters. The Jags played scared and lost. Blake's not a good QB, he just got Sanchez lucky in the playoff streak.

[SenorGato]

20 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

IMO paying Cousins $28M helps us more than over paying 2 or 3 non QBs plus trading up for a rookie. 

That's more so because I don't believe there are enough good FAs to pay. I think we can still target key FAs once we sign Cousins with +$70m not to mention they'd likely be cheaper or be more enticed to come here once we have a QB. We can say we can sign 3 good to great players for what it costs to sign Cousins but there are a ton of other teams will a lot of money so realistically without a QB we aren't going to land all these elite non QBs.

Exaaaaaactly

No one in the top shelf among non-QBs is risking their career on a team pitching a nameless first round QB they aren't even in position to garauntee. MAYBE there’s a guy you can pay enough to forget that, but obviously that’s an issue itself. 

[JetFaninMI]

4 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Your thinking is all over the place and convenient when it needs to be. All stats can be dismissed as garbage because of W-L record. One minute FAs are a quick fix with Cousins, the next it’s about how they can pay more FAs. One minute they’re not talented enough to lure Cousins, the next they can lure multiple big money FAs. Also some guy no one’s hired since he missed on Cousins says he isn’t some nebulous definition of special and you need a good team as well. 

There are reasons for Cousins to pass on the Jets - the Vikings and Jaguars are way better and have money. There are zero good reasons for the Jets to actively pass on Cousins, it requires some really topsy turvy thinking to get there. 

LOL. This from an Amoretz whose ability to think and comprehend becomes more suspect with every line you write.

[SenorGato]

Just now, JetFaninMI said:

I love you too, buddy. I don’t know where we keep finding schmucks like yourself but it helps pass the time. 

[Jetster]

This idea we pass on Cousins if we have a chance to bring him to NY is so asinine it's hilarious. Has anyone been paying attention to our QB position?

I have posts on here back when Fitz was holding out & I was all over grabbing Nick Foles when he was released & would have cost us 1.8 million instead of Fitz 15 million. 

Jetster for GM baby! 

[JetFaninMI]

11 hours ago, SenorGato said:

I love you too, buddy. I don’t know where we keep finding schmucks like yourself but it helps pass the time. 

Fertummelt. As usual.

[prime21]

“He’s a good player. Is he special? I don’t see special.”

—Former Washington GM Scot McCloughan, on the man who quarterbacked the team when he was there, Kirk Cousins, to The Fan 104.3, as replayed by the Washington Post and Pro Football Talk.

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

This idea we pass on Cousins if we have a chance to bring him to NY is so asinine it's hilarious. Has anyone been paying attention to our QB position?

I have posts on here back when Fitz was holding out & I was all over grabbing Nick Foles when he was released & would have cost us 1.8 million instead of Fitz 15 million. 

Jetster for GM baby! 

It all comes down to the redskins tagging Cousins and whether or not Macc is willing to give up the 6th pick overall in addition to the enormous contract

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, prime21 said:

“He’s a good player. Is he special? I don’t see special.”

—Former Washington GM Scot McCloughan, on the man who quarterbacked the team when he was there, Kirk Cousins, to The Fan 104.3, as replayed by the Washington Post and Pro Football Talk.

Posted the whole article a page or two back.

[JetFaninMI]

16 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Exaaaaaactly

No one in the top shelf among non-QBs is risking their career on a team pitching a nameless first round QB they aren't even in position to garauntee. MAYBE there’s a guy you can pay enough to forget that, but obviously that’s an issue itself. 

 

16 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

IMO paying Cousins $28M helps us more than over paying 2 or 3 non QBs plus trading up for a rookie. 

That's more so because I don't believe there are enough good FAs to pay. I think we can still target key FAs once we sign Cousins with +$70m not to mention they'd likely be cheaper or be more enticed to come here once we have a QB. We can say we can sign 3 good to great players for what it costs to sign Cousins but there are a ton of other teams will a lot of money so realistically without a QB we aren't going to land all these elite non QBs.

My guess is the majority of FAs will want to go to the 49ers after seeing what Jimmy G did to end the season.

The major problem with the whole sign FA's thing is I don't believe those top-tier guys are ever going to FA. Most will be tagged with the exception of guys out of their prime or in the middle of their prime. So essentially you sign Cousins and have no one to put around him. I don't want them to go the FA route at all. I would prefer they do it through the draft and build that way. I really think they will pursue Cousins but doubt he signs here. I just don't see him coming to a team with so much up in the air in terms of roster, coaching and front office stability.

[Jack Straw]

On 1/19/2018 at 11:36 PM, jetsons said:

With the league revenues taking a significant hit due to low attendance I wouldn't bet anything worthwhile on that.

Ticket revenue only accounts for 16.35% of the NFL's revenue....it won't have that big of an impact.

[SenorGato]

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

The major problem with the whole sign FA's thing is I don't believe those top-tier guys are ever going to FA. Most will be tagged with the exception of guys out of their prime or in the middle of their prime. So essentially you sign Cousins and have no one to put around him. I don't want them to go the FA route at all. I would prefer they do it through the draft and build that way. I really think they will pursue Cousins but doubt he signs here. I just don't see him coming to a team with so much up in the air in terms of roster, coaching and front office stability.

One minute no top tier FAs hit FA, the next minute top guys in the middle of the prime will hit. Conclusion: Jets will have no one to buy even with Cousins. 

Plus it’s gone from don’t pursue Cousins because he can’t win to this guy ready to win will turn down the Jets because they’re not ready. Convenient how that all works out for you. 

Everyone in the history of everyone wants to build through the draft.

[SenorGato]

4 hours ago, prime21 said:

“He’s a good player. Is he special? I don’t see special.”

—Former Washington GM Scot McCloughan, on the man who quarterbacked the team when he was there, Kirk Cousins, to The Fan 104.3, as replayed by the Washington Post and Pro Football Talk.

Former coach Mike Shanahan says he noticed that fixation immediately after the Redskins took Cousins in the fourth round of the 2012 NFL draft—exactly 100 picks after they used the No. 2 choice on QB Robert Griffin III. At the end of that summer’s training camp, with Griffin entrenched as the starter, Shanahan pulled Cousins aside. “With what you’ve shown me, you could have a Drew Brees-type career,” he told the backup. Cousins never forgot those words, an affirmation of his ethos. “Mike didn’t just show me that process matters,” Cousins says. “He showed me that myprocess works.”

Washington fired Shanahan 16 months later, and as his belongings were being packed, he recalls telling the team brass that Cousins was capable of winning a Super Bowl. “If you want Robert to be the quarterback, trade Kirk,” he said, “because Kirk will beat him out.” His audience fell silent.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/29/kirk-cousins-washington-redskins-quarterback

Here’s some other quotes from the former GM in that same article you quoted that don’t fit the narrative from that one similarly cherry picked quote:

But he’s competitive. He works his tail off. He’s so methodical. Every day he has planned out. He’s always in the building, he’s always watching tape, he’s always talking to coaches, he was talking to me. From the standpoint of the tangibles, they’re excellent.

The thing about him that’s unique, and you don’t really see it too often, he’s a pretty good athlete with his legs,” McCloughan continued. “He can make plays moving around the pocket and running for first downs. He’s got a strong enough arm, there’s no doubt about it. He’s been through adversity. When he was there, he got drafted the same year that Robert Griffin [III] got drafted. And Robert was the guy, and of course he deserved it. He was offensive [rookie] of the year, and Kirk got to sit back and just wait and wait and wait. He wants to play. He’s highly, highly competitive. He comes across as a real nice guy, like Alex Smith did in interviews — and they are. But they’re both highly competitive, and they want to win. But they want that stability, too. They want to know they’re in some spot where it’s not just a one-year deal, one-year deal, one-year deal. He wants a long-term deal.”

The thing about it is, when I was there, we tried to get a long-term deal done and were unable to do it,” McCloughan said. “He’s respected in the building, he’s a really good football player, he’s a leader, he’s a smart guy, he does everything right

 

[SenorGato]

Ooook so no clue what’s wrong that couldn’t post write....Anyway, some more similarly cherry picked quotes from the former GM:

Quote

But he’s competitive. He works his tail off. He’s so methodical. Every day he has planned out. He’s always in the building, he’s always watching tape, he’s always talking to coaches, he was talking to me. From the standpoint of the tangibles, they’re excellent.

The thing about him that’s unique, and you don’t really see it too often, he’s a pretty good athlete with his legs,” McCloughan continued. “He can make plays moving around the pocket and running for first downs. He’s got a strong enough arm, there’s no doubt about it. He’s been through adversity. When he was there, he got drafted the same year that Robert Griffin [III] got drafted. And Robert was the guy, and of course he deserved it. He was offensive [rookie] of the year, and Kirk got to sit back and just wait and wait and wait. He wants to play. He’s highly, highly competitive. He comes across as a real nice guy, like Alex Smith did in interviews — and they are. But they’re both highly competitive, and they want to win. But they want that stability, too. They want to know they’re in some spot where it’s not just a one-year deal, one-year deal, one-year deal. He wants a long-term deal.”

The thing about it is, when I was there, we tried to get a long-term deal done and were unable to do it,” McCloughan said. “He’s respected in the building, he’s a really good football player, he’s a leader, he’s a smart guy, he does everything right...

But hey, those specifics are pretty worthless compared to not being “special, particularly from the guy who lost his job over failing to resign Cousins. 

[bla bla bla]

5 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

The major problem with the whole sign FA's thing is I don't believe those top-tier guys are ever going to FA. Most will be tagged with the exception of guys out of their prime or in the middle of their prime. So essentially you sign Cousins and have no one to put around him. I don't want them to go the FA route at all. I would prefer they do it through the draft and build that way. I really think they will pursue Cousins but doubt he signs here. I just don't see him coming to a team with so much up in the air in terms of roster, coaching and front office stability.

Yea you basically repeated my sentiments on why I don't think we will be able to attract many FAs outside of getting Cousins or over paying. It's not bad to spend in free agency when you have $111M in cap space, you just have to spend it in a fashion that doesn't prevent you from losing home grown talent. I want to build through the draft but without over spending on someone like Cousins we will likely need to give up draft picks to get our QB. We are going to need to spend money to get talent here whether it's to surround Cousins with draft picks or if it's to support our rookie QB with FAs. I find it hard to believe we sit at #6 after missing out on Cousins, IMO we'd look to move up as high as possible.

[SenorGato]

7 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Yea you basically repeated my sentiments on why I don't think we will be able to attract many FAs outside of getting Cousins or over paying. It's not bad to spend in free agency when you have $111M in cap space, you just have to spend it in a fashion that doesn't prevent you from losing home grown talent. I want to build through the draft but without over spending on someone like Cousins we will likely need to give up draft picks to get our QB. We are going to need to spend money to get talent here whether it's to surround Cousins with draft picks or if it's to support our rookie QB with FAs. I find it hard to believe we sit at #6 after missing out on Cousins, IMO we'd look to move up as high as possible.

Agreed on moving up if they miss on Cousins. These guys are getting fired if there’s no QB for beyond 2018 on the roster this year so might as well go all in on draft day at the position. 

[SMC]

According to ESPN report polling agents and team executives, Case Keenum is looking at $18 to $20 mil a year. 

In light of that, it's safe to assume that Cousins is getting at least $25 mil per, even if he's "not special".  That's the NFL.

[Charlie Brown]

2 minutes ago, SMC said:

According to ESPN report polling agents and team executives, Case Keenum is looking at $18 to $20 mil a year. 

In light of that, it's safe to assume that Cousins is getting at least $25 mil per, even if he's "not special".  That's the NFL.

If Case Keenum is getting $18 Million/year; than Cousins can command $28 Million IMO easy..

[SenorGato]

Just now, Charlie Brown said:

If Case Keenum is getting $18 Million/year; than Cousins can command $28 Million IMO easy..

And by extension guys like Winston, Mariota (who I think will figure it oot eventually), Wentz, and Goff will be getting even higher salaries.

League’s turning over! Manning’s out, Brady is 40+, Brees is 39, Roethlisberger is a husk, and nobody cares about Bryant or likes Rodgers. The only SB winning QB under-30 in the league is Wilson for the Seahawks, and he’s kind of a douche also up for an extension soon.

Get in front of the pack for once! 

[Charlie Brown]

10 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

And by extension guys like Winston, Mariota (who I think will figure it oot eventually), Wentz, and Goff will be getting even higher salaries.

League’s turning over! Manning’s out, Brady is 40+, Brees is 39, Roethlisberger is a husk, and nobody cares about Bryant or likes Rodgers. The only SB winning QB under-30 in the league is Wilson for the Seahawks, and he’s kind of a douche also up for an extension soon.

Get in front of the pack for once! 

This is why the monies that Cousins will get will not be a big deal in say 5 years......

The Jets have to think ahead this time and not settle for mediocrity, aka McCown and then in say 2 years after that hope that the QB they drafted is OK and that they have the proper staff to develop said QB......

[SenorGato]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

This is why the monies that Cousins will get will not be a big deal in say 5 years......

The Jets have to think ahead this time and not settle for mediocrity, aka McCown and then in say 2 years after that hope that the QB they drafted is OK and that they have the proper staff to develop said QB......

Then there’s the part where extending this mystery rookie QB comes after 5 big money QB deals will have been signed. So then there’s that. Cousins, Mariota, Winston, Goff, and Wentz will be up for and likely get extensions before a 2018 rookie QB does meaning more $$$ to extend him. 

 

[Charlie Brown]

5 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Then there’s the part where extending this mystery rookie QB comes after 5 big money QB deals will have been signed. So then there’s that. 

Also if the Jets get Cousins then they can then get Penn State RB Barkley with their high first round pick!

[SenorGato]

19 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Also if the Jets get Cousins then they can then get Penn State RB Barkley with their high first round pick!

I’m actually really into Barkley at 6 if they land Cousins. Offense 4 dayz