Jamal Adams vs Derwin James

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

We won 5 games last year.  How many do you guys think we'd have won without Jamal Adam's leadership?

Well we were projected to win 1-3 so......

[Thai Jet]

2 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

 No, they didn’t. There were a handful of posters, as in like 5, that liked Watson. And even less that liked Mahomes. 

I think a lot of people wre shocked that KC moved up last year to grab Mahomes. I guess by this time next year we'll know if that was a good move.

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well we were projected to win 1-3 so......

I wish I was dead

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, dbatesman said:

I wish I was dead

If you truly wished that, the power is in your hands. I don't think you wish you were dead.

[Thai Jet]

6 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I think he means based on his athleticism. His demeanor and lineage pushed him into the top ten

Thanks. My point was Adams went right where he should have gone. We didn't reach for him like it was insinuated we did and with Lee.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Thai Jet said:

Thanks. My point was Adams went right where he should have gone. We didn't reach for him like it was insinuated we did and with Lee.

We didn't even reach with Lee. He was projected to go around that spot as well.

The only major reach that Macc has ever made was Hackenberg.

[Thai Jet]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

We didn't even reach with Lee. He was projected to go around that spot as well.

The only major reach that Macc has ever made was Hackenberg.

I know but whoever the poster was was trying to say that Lee was projected to go in the 2nd round. Some people just want to rewrite history or they have selective memories.

[HessStation]

1 minute ago, Thai Jet said:

WHAT ? NO he was projected to go right where we picked him at #6. He was the best player available at the time we picked.

I'm talking about his paper numbers i.e. Combine results. They weren't elite, and generally speaking, no matter how good you are at football, players aren't usually taken that early, especially safeties, without elite paper traits/numbers 

Kolton Miller, a LT prospect out of UCLA had the same vertical jump. 

His broad was 120, which is generally impressive for a TE, Gesicki btw jumped 129. Btw Gesicki's 3 cones a 6.76 vs Adams 6.96. Btw Gesicki is 6'6 250lbs. 

18 reps on bench doesn't even wow you from a workout warrior perspective. 

He wasn't or isn't an elite athlete that was worthy of a top 10 pick, sorry. First round, sure, not top 10 material per basic guidelines most teams tend to use. Especially for a safety. 

[UnitedWhofans]

The main draft criticism by many here of Mike is that he thinks like a scout in that he grabs the best player available regardless of position. He goes by the draft board too much. And I get it to an extent that some positions are more important than others and that should be taken into account.

That being said I would take Maccagnan over a bean counter like John Idzik and even late Tannenbaum every ******* day of the week.

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I'm talking about his paper numbers i.e. Combine results. They weren't elite, and generally speaking, no matter how good you are at football, players aren't usually taken that early, especially safeties, without elite paper traits/numbers 

Kolton Miller, a LT prospect out of UCLA had the same vertical jump. 

His broad was 120, which is generally impressive for a TE, Gesicki btw jumped 129. Btw Gesicki's 3 cones a 6.76 vs Adams 6.96. Btw Gesicki is 6'6 250lbs. 

18 reps on bench doesn't even wow you from a workout warrior perspective. 

He wasn't or isn't an elite athlete that was worthy of a top 10 pick, sorry. First round, sure, not top 10 material per basic guidelines most teams tend to use. Especially for a safety. 

But Mike Mamula, I win 

[UnitedWhofans]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I'm talking about his paper numbers i.e. Combine results. They weren't elite, and generally speaking, no matter how good you are at football, players aren't usually taken that early, especially safeties, without elite paper traits/numbers 

Kolton Miller, a LT prospect out of UCLA had the same vertical jump. 

His broad was 120, which is generally impressive for a TE, Gesicki btw jumped 129. Btw Gesicki's 3 cones a 6.76 vs Adams 6.96. Btw Gesicki is 6'6 250lbs. 

18 reps on bench doesn't even wow you from a workout warrior perspective. 

He wasn't or isn't an elite athlete that was worthy of a top 10 pick, sorry. First round, sure, not top 10 material per basic guidelines most teams tend to use. Especially for a safety. 

Exactly what I thought you said. His athletic numbers put him in the spot you suggested. His demeanor, leadership skills and lineage pushed him up into the top ten.

I guess it just comes down to how much you value leadership and demeanor in the locker room

[HessStation]

6 minutes ago, CTM said:

But Mike Mamula, I win 

At not making sense, yes. 

[HessStation]

10 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Exactly what I thought you said. His athletic numbers put him in the spot you suggested. His demeanor, leadership skills and lineage pushed him up into the top ten.

I guess it just comes down to how much you value leadership and demeanor in the locker room

No. His athletic numbers put him in the 3rd round, his intangibles/tape in combination would/should have put him at the end of the first round. 

 

Elite picks #1-around 8 are usually for a combination of "both" elite paper numbers "and" great tape/football skills. 

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, HessStation said:

No. His athletic numbers put him in the 3rd round, his intangibles/tape in combination would/should have put him at the end of the first round. 

No because if his athletic numbers are relatively close/in range to James and James was projected to go in the first round.

[CTM]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No because if his athletic numbers are relatively close/in range to James and James was projected to go in the first round.

You mean the numbers in the op? how is that close?

[HessStation]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

No because if his athletic numbers are relatively close/in range to James and James was projected to go in the first round.

I'd love to discuus further with you but you need help if you think their numbers are relatively close

[legler82]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Which can be compromised by a knee injury. I think that is the main factor.

Yeah that knee injury really hampered his 40 and vertical.  Again I'm...

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

You mean the numbers in the op? how is that close?

The only one that is really different. A difference of 10 units is the Broad jump

[HessStation]

41 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The only one that is really different. A difference of 10 units is the Broad jump

Irrefutable proof that you are a professional troll who lives on a coconut farm in Thailand and never even seen a football game. I get it now. I like you so much more now that I realize this. 

[#27TheDominator]

Where did this John Idzik was a bean counter narrative come from?  The guy was a coach and player personnel guy.  He spent a few years doing contracts for the Seahawks and now he is a bean counter?  That was part of the appeal, he was replacing the accountant.  On top of that, he had bloodlines!  His dad was a coach for 30 years, including OC under Walt Michaels. The fact that he couldn't make draft picks does not make him a bean counter.

[legler82]

35 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

I think a lot of people wre shocked that KC moved up last year to grab Mahomes. I guess by this time next year we'll know if that was a good move.

Oh some us already know.  KC does too; that's why they shipped their at some point MVP candidate on the first bus out of KC.

[legler82]

17 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No because if his athletic numbers are relatively close/in range to James and James was projected to go in the first round.

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The only one that is really different. A difference of 10 units is the Broad jump

Units?  Are you ******* kidding me?  I sure hope that was your talk to text feature.  If you think that a full tenth or 10" in the vertical jump are not really different, you shouldn't bother listening to sports radio.  If I ran a tenth quicker and had and additional 10" vertical I would have been a full scholarship athlete and would still be competing in dunking contests.

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The only one that is really different. A difference of 10 units is the Broad jump

Don’t forget the ball-handling

[dbatesman]

42 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

If you truly wished that, the power is in your hands. I don't think you wish you were dead.

Thank you, Whofans

[#27TheDominator]

48 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

 No, they didn’t. There were a handful of posters, as in like 5, that liked Watson. And even less that liked Mahomes. 

I think there were more than 5 posters that started threads saying we should take Mahomes.

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Where did this John Idzik was a bean counter narrative come from?  The guy was a coach and player personnel guy.  He spent a few years doing contracts for the Seahawks and now he is a bean counter?  That was part of the appeal, he was replacing the accountant.  On top of that, he had bloodlines!  His dad was a coach for 30 years, including OC under Walt Michaels. The fact that he couldn't make draft picks does not make him a bean counter.

It’s the easiest path toward reconciling his failures in the draft. Also, Duke.

[David Harris]

I'm thrilled with the Jamal Adams pick.  I think he had a very solid rookie year and is going to be a star and the leader of the defense for the next 8-10 years. 

Don't forget Jamal re-ran his 40 at his pro day and was in the 4.3's

Derwin is a freak but so is Jamal and I like Jamal's leadership (not a joke) 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I'm thrilled with the Jamal Adams pick.  I think he had a very solid rookie year and is going to be a star and the leader of the defense for the next 8-10 years. 

Don't forget Jamal re-ran his 40 at his pro day and was in the 4.3's

Derwin is a freak but so is Jamal and I like Jamal's leadership (not a joke) 

I keep reading that, but he was never in the 4.3s.  All you have to do is look at him to know that.  He was significantly faster, but I think his agent tweeted 4.33 when he first ran it.  He wouldn't have had to "change the perception about his athleticism if he were athletic. People got the impression that he wasn't athletic from his play.

ams was timed officially at 4.45 at LSU's pro day, per NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt. That's a significant improvement for a player already considered to be one of the 2017 NFL Draft's elite prospects. Hard as it might have been for Adams to boost his already high draft stock, he might have done just that. Per NFL.com analyst Bucky Brooks, the improvement will "change the perception about his athleticism." ha

[Thai Jet]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Thank you, Whofans

We'd all miss you

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading that, but he was never in the 4.3s.  All you have to do is look at him to know that.  He was significantly faster, but I think his agent tweeted 4.33 when he first ran it.  He wouldn't have had to "change the perception about his athleticism if he were athletic. People got the impression that he wasn't athletic from his play.

ams was timed officially at 4.45 at LSU's pro day, per NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt. That's a significant improvement for a player already considered to be one of the 2017 NFL Draft's elite prospects. Hard as it might have been for Adams to boost his already high draft stock, he might have done just that. Per NFL.com analyst Bucky Brooks, the improvement will "change the perception about his athleticism." ha

This reminds me of a story that appeared in the New York Post a long time ago. There was an art exhibit in a museum and all of these art critics were interviewed about a specific piece, and they all gave these very lengthy, breathless reviews about the piece’s usage of light and dark, the post-modernist yadda yadda critique etc, etc, and when the critic got done bloviating they were informed that the artist was an eight year old girl who scribbled the sh*t during art class in her grammar school. Point being, people naturally assign characteristics to a thing based on the presentation of a thing. Similar bits have been pulled off with wine, where they con a bunch of sommoliers into believing a bottle of prison wine is actually a fine vintage and they assess it as such. Same with Jamal Adams: overhyped into the sixth overall pick? Must run a 4.3 and jump 40 inches! 

[JetFreak89]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

This was his combine report

Derwin James, S, Florida State: James could experience a resurgence in draft buzz, given the final copy of measurements and athletic numbers the second-team AP All-American gave scouts at the combine. The versatile defender blazed a 4.47-second 40-yard dash to go along with a 40-inch vertical leap and an 11-foot broad jump. Although evaluators expected him to be one of the athletic freaks at the position, the 6-foot-2, 215-pound hybrid safety exceeded expectations by showing quick feet and smooth movement skills in positional drills. With some teams reportedly considering James as a "big" cornerback, this spectacular showing could elevate him back into top-15 consideration.

My question is why was there a downturn in draft buzz compared to Adams who did not experience this?

Jamal Adams, if you recall was mocked in the top ten all throughout the process.

We all know how much Bowles and Macc like big corners....wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility at pick 6......

[Scott Dierking]

58 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This reminds me of a story that appeared in the New York Post a long time ago. There was an art exhibit in a museum and all of these art critics were interviewed about a specific piece, and they all gave these very lengthy, breathless reviews about the piece’s usage of light and dark, the post-modernist yadda yadda critique etc, etc, and when the critic got done bloviating they were informed that the artist was an eight year old girl who scribbled the sh*t during art class in her grammar school. Point being, people naturally assign characteristics to a thing based on the presentation of a thing. Similar bits have been pulled off with wine, where they con a bunch of sommoliers into believing a bottle of prison wine is actually a fine vintage and they assess it as such. Same with Jamal Adams: overhyped into the sixth overall pick? Must run a 4.3 and jump 40 inches! 

Thankfully we have you to cut through the bs and give an objective viewpoint. God bless you T0mShane.

[BigO]

7 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

Jamal Adams 6'0, 214

40: 4.56

BP: 18 reps

Vert: 31.5"

Broad: 120"

 

Derwin James: 6'3, 215

40: 4.47

BP: 21

Vert: 40"

Broad: 132"

 

We took Jamal at #6 last year. James is projected 10-15 this yr. Which player would you rather have?

Adams has James on the Pom Pom twirling thing. Hands down!

 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

This reminds me of a story that appeared in the New York Post a long time ago. There was an art exhibit in a museum and all of these art critics were interviewed about a specific piece, and they all gave these very lengthy, breathless reviews about the piece’s usage of light and dark, the post-modernist yadda yadda critique etc, etc, and when the critic got done bloviating they were informed that the artist was an eight year old girl who scribbled the sh*t during art class in her grammar school. Point being, people naturally assign characteristics to a thing based on the presentation of a thing. Similar bits have been pulled off with wine, where they con a bunch of sommoliers into believing a bottle of prison wine is actually a fine vintage and they assess it as such. Same with Jamal Adams: overhyped into the sixth overall pick? Must run a 4.3 and jump 40 inches! 

You were one of those critics weren't you t0mas