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SAM AT THE HALF WAY POINT

14 in Green

By 14 in Green
in NY Jets Forum

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Again I wasn’t making excuses for him. I was simply pointing out weaknesses we have.  I also said sam had a few awful games that were on him.  For example the Browns game.!!Now can we end this?

Then what's this? 

 

19 hours ago, Jets723 said:

Honestly half his interceptions were screwups by his receivers. Also so many drops.  Despite all the obstacles he has shown mental toughness and flashes of being a gamer

Im just saying, for every INT that you can blame the receiver for, I can show you a dropped INT by a defender. For every drop you can show me I can show you a poorly placed pass. 

 

Like you said and I agree with, he's a rookie...it's normal. 

Lets not explain away his rookie growing pains and ignore bad plays that dont show up on stat sheets and then say that's "fair". 

It's not. 

There's reason why present this...its because Jets fans dont accept this type of nitpicking and guiding of the narrative when it's other QB's.

 

Are we still going to hold this convo or are you really out? I dont mind, but I want to make sure given what you said earlier. 

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Jets723

Jets723

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15 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then what's this? 

 

Im just saying, for every INT that you can blame the receiver for, I can show you a dropped INT by a defender. For every drop you can show me I can show you a poorly placed pass. 

 

Like you said and I agree with, he's a rookie...it's normal. 

Im just saying, lets not explain away his rookie growing pains and ignore bad plays that dont show up on stat sheets and then say that's "fair". 

It's not. 

There's reason why present this is because Jets fans dont accept this type of nitpicking and guiding of the narrative when it's other QB's.

 

Are we still going to hold this convo or are you really out? I dont mind, but I want to make sure given what you said earlier. 

Stop being overdramatic.  Sam has made plenty of mistakes like ive said 100 ******* times

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Yeah, but was otherworldly levels of bad. 

2 years later, dude is MVP level status. Great to see what can happen to a guy who has great talent around him and a coach who knows what the hell he's doing. 

 

I was watching that Packers game and the formation that the Rams run creates open receivers. It's a beautiful things to see. 

It really is. I’m rooting for the Rams to go all the way. They are the most exciting team to watch in all of football.

edit: actually maybe KC is but Rams Defense is just as good as the Offense so they are probably more entertaining overall.

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SR24

SR24

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Sam is looking as good as a 21yr old qb with a horrible supporting cast and a HC/GM tandem that have done nothing to help him should look. Sams develeopment will continue to be hindered by a GM who can't draft, a HC who escaped a mental institution and  an OC who should have stayed away from football. 

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bitonti

bitonti

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20 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Progress from day one? Oh yeah. I think Sam will finish about 22 TD’s 15 INT’s and 3,000-some yards. 

1

Sam Darnold currently has 1,705 yards, so 3000 plus is a decent projection

he has 11 TD so 22 TDs is another fair extrapolation

but he has 10 INT (tied with Case Keenum and Jameis Winston for most in the league) on pace for 20 not 15

the obvious question: what's going to change between now and the rest of the season that he cuts his int rate in half?  

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jetstream23

jetstream23

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19 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

@The Crimson King and @Matt39 both made points that I was thinking more people would bring up. Sam has kept a difficult to please fan base in his corner so far, despite not having any definitely the guy moments. 

Good point.  First of all, I think he's a likable guy who certainly seems capable with a bright future.  He also never throws people under the bus and has remained very level-headed.  We've seen moments of brilliance that give us hope and definitely some "rookie-itis" that is to be expected, but no pattern of glaringly horrible decision-making.  It's not like he's chucking the ball all over the place into double coverage, making Sanchez, Geno or Bubby Brister type mistakes.

For all those reasons I think he has the fanbase in his corner.  Our fans expected growing pains and we can tolerate them for a while on a team that really has no supporting cast for the guy.

I mean, compare Darnold and Eli Manning.  Which guy has Saquon Barkley and OBJ, and which has Isaiah Crowell and Jermaine Kearse?  Which guys has about 15 years of experience and which has 8 games?

Sam just needs to continue learning and growing, not repeating mistakes and continue to show that he has that franchise QB potential.  Jets fans will stick with him.

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Sam Darnold currently has 1,705 yards, so 3000 plus is a decent projection

he has 11 TD so 22 TDs is another fair extrapolation

but he has 10 INT (tied with Case Keenum and Jameis Winston for most in the league) on pace for 20 not 15

the obvious question: what's going to change between now and the rest of the season that he cuts his int rate in half?  

Getting players healthy and progression in decision making.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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14 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

It really is. I’m rooting for the Rams to go all the way. They are the most exciting team to watch in all of football.

edit: actually maybe KC is but Rams Defense is just as good as the Offense so they are probably more entertaining overall.

Im just waiting for my guy Mike Glennon to get his opportunity to be around some competent folks!!!! 

 

haha! :-)

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jetstream23

jetstream23

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Just now, bitonti said:

Sam Darnold currently has 1,705 yards, so 3000 plus is a decent projection

he has 11 TD so 22 TDs is another fair extrapolation

but he has 10 INT (tied with Case Keenum and Jameis Winston for most in the league) on pace for 20 not 15

the obvious question: what's going to change between now and the rest of the season that he cuts his int rate in half?  

Good question, I think the hope is that he'll make better decisions and hopefully improve his timing/comfort with the WRs.....although that's a tall order considering we keep changing our WRs.

Finishing with more TDs than INTs would be a good thing, improving the ratio...even if just slightly...would be even better.

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14 in Green

14 in Green

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6 hours ago, HelenOfTroy said:

As an aside, it was great to see that trust carry over from USC....Tay is not the biggest guy, or fastest, but he sure as hell will fight for the ball, and 9/10 will win those battles.  I'm used to seeing that from WRs.

my worry is the coach and FO will cut Tay and not give him a chance to develop further as an NFL WR.

I wouldn't be too worried about us cutting him. Right now he's one of the few WRs out there with a pulse. That, along with his connection to Sam, and to his credit 4 rec's for 60 yds yesterday all point to him getting every chance in the world to show he's a guy we can count on going forward.

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14 in Green

14 in Green

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Not really? It looked like you were setting the foundation. Let me show you.

You start by talking about him being 21 and the youngest QB since the merger, then immediately go into the Oline then injuries. 

By the time you actually talk about his mistakes you've already set the foundation that it's because he's younger than anyone else, he has a poor line and he's dealing with injuries around him....then double down by saying that he's a rookie so it's normal. 

Then you immediately say what you "honestly" think....and that honesty part was literally cleaning up his INT's that are on the books...something that rookies normally do. 

Lets be real, it's not fair. Not that I have a problem with it generally, but I think that if you're going to call folks out who are unhappy, you cant immediately proceed by staking the deck. That's all im saying. 

 

You just explained perfectly what a lot of us feel happens way too often here with guys who look at Sam with blinders on. Whenever anyone brings up what they thought was a bad throw, or anything Sam needs to work on they're jumped on. Its crazy, because 99% of the time the criticism is from people who are fans of Darnold, yet they're attacked anyway It just happened to you with this post. I made a request as the OP for people not to butt fumble anyone critical of Sam, I didn't want to turn this into a love fest where people wouldn't want to express any problems they saw in Sam's development. Yet, instead of just engaging you in conversation, @Jets723 insists on the Butt fumbles! C'mon 723, knock it off!.

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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8 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

You just explained perfectly what a lot of us feel happens way too often here with guys who look at Sam with blinders on. Whenever anyone brings up what they thought was a bad throw, or anything Sam needs to work on they're jumped on. Its crazy, because 99% of the time the criticism is from people who are fans of Darnold, yet they're attacked anyway It just happened to you with this post. I made a request as the OP for people not to butt fumble anyone critical of Sam, I didn't want to turn this into a love fest where people wouldn't want to express any problems they saw in Sam's development. Yet, instead of just engaging you in conversation, @Jets723 insists on the Butt fumbles! C'mon 723, knock it off!.

How you praised joewilly12 for knowing his stuff the other day(which he doesn’t) is how you should of praised Villian. Villain is a good ass poster. Some people can’t handle being beat to a pulp in a debate.?

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Miss Lonelyhearts

Miss Lonelyhearts

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8 hours ago, JiF said:

This is at least the 3rd time I've seen you suggest the Jets should be drafting a QB next year 8 games into Sam Darnold's career.  You were doing it after week 3.  lol  Calling vs suggesting?  I guess there's a difference.  No biggie either way.  You're not hurting my feelings.  I think you're take on Sam is completely off and the idea of drafting another QB is ridiculous but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I see a star in the making and the last thing I would do is draft another QB, especially not in the 1st round.  I'd rather use those resources to invest in supporting Sam instead of giving up on the youngest week 1 starter in NFL history 8 weeks into his career, leading one of the worst offensive units in the NFL being developed by the league's worst coaching staff. 

 

Don’t look at it as giving up on Darnold. Fans get way too attached to individual players. What we have in Darnold is a range of potential outcomes. The aggregate of these outcomes has a certain present value, but this average is never going to be realized as such. Instead he’s either going to be a legit second-contract guy, or he’s not but will be incorrectly resigned, or he’s not going to be resigned. We’re not going to be able to make that distinction with a whole lot more certainty after sixteen starts than we were after eight, so when the draft comes we’re going to have to approximate the value of Darnold’s potential with a view of deciding whether further significant investment in the position is justified. That’s basic, I think. But what you have to keep in mind is that the opportunity cost of drafting a quarterback high is very low compared to the replacement cost of acquiring one on the open market and also that legit prospects are movable at a profit. If acquiring a real live franchise quarterback on a rookie contract is worth a first and three seconds (and it is), then it’s worth two firsts and three seconds too (and again, it is). This is the new paradigm. Being relatively high on Darnold and favoring additional investment to shore up the position are not mutually exclusive. If our big problem turns out to be that Darnold is the guy and we ‘wasted’ a pick on a quarterback that could have been used on weppinz, then we have no problems.

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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1 minute ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Don’t look at it as giving up on Darnold. Fans get way too attached to individual players. What we have in Darnold is a range of potential outcomes. The aggregate of these outcomes has a certain present value, but this average is never going to be realized as such. Instead he’s either going to be a legit second-contract guy, or he’s not but will be incorrectly resigned, or he’s not going to be resigned. We’re not going to be able to make that distinction with a whole lot more certainty after sixteen starts than we were after eight, so when the draft comes we’re going to have to approximate the value of Darnold’s potential with a view of deciding whether further significant investment in the position is justified. That’s basic, I think. But what you have to keep in mind is that the opportunity cost of drafting a quarterback high is very low compared to the replacement cost of acquiring one on the open market and also that legit prospects are movable at a profit. If acquiring a real live franchise quarterback on a rookie contract is worth a first and three seconds (and it is), then it’s worth two firsts and three seconds too (and again, it is). This is the new paradigm. Being relatively high on Darnold and favoring additional investment to shore up the position are not mutually exclusive. If our big problem turns out to be that Darnold is the guy and we ‘wasted’ a pick on a quarterback that could have been used on weppinz, then we have no problems.

Nice post, LH.

but Eric Allen is still a beat reporter.

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14 in Green

14 in Green

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10 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

How you praised joewilly12 for knowing his stuff the other day(which he doesn’t) is how you should of praised Villian. Villain is a good ass poster. Some people can’t handle being beat to a pulp in a debate.?

Yeah, you eventually get a feel for most of the guys here, and after almost 2 months, I'm starting to. Some of them just make me shake my head every time they post. That 723 guy is one of them. It gets even worse when they try to debate someone who knows their sh*t. They're completely exposed.

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

Yeah, you eventually get a feel for most of the guys here, and after almost 2 months, I'm starting to. Some of them just make me shake my head every time they post. That 723 guy is one of them.

Lol yeah. I think being fair and rational is the hardest thing to find around here sometimes, man.

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NYs Stepchild

NYs Stepchild

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11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

How you praised joewilly12 for knowing his stuff the other day(which he doesn’t) is how you should of praised Villian. Villain is a good ass poster. Some people can’t handle being beat to a pulp in a debate.?

Joe Willy knows his stuff. 

He just doesn't know much about football. 

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Jets723

Jets723

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1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

You just explained perfectly what a lot of us feel happens way too often here with guys who look at Sam with blinders on. Whenever anyone brings up what they thought was a bad throw, or anything Sam needs to work on they're jumped on. Its crazy, because 99% of the time the criticism is from people who are fans of Darnold, yet they're attacked anyway It just happened to you with this post. I made a request as the OP for people not to butt fumble anyone critical of Sam, I didn't want to turn this into a love fest where people wouldn't want to express any problems they saw in Sam's development. Yet, instead of just engaging you in conversation, @Jets723 insists on the Butt fumbles! C'mon 723, knock it off!.

Um...I was kidding around. Villain and me are cool

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Jets723

Jets723

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1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

You just explained perfectly what a lot of us feel happens way too often here with guys who look at Sam with blinders on. Whenever anyone brings up what they thought was a bad throw, or anything Sam needs to work on they're jumped on. Its crazy, because 99% of the time the criticism is from people who are fans of Darnold, yet they're attacked anyway It just happened to you with this post. I made a request as the OP for people not to butt fumble anyone critical of Sam, I didn't want to turn this into a love fest where people wouldn't want to express any problems they saw in Sam's development. Yet, instead of just engaging you in conversation, @Jets723 insists on the Butt fumbles! C'mon 723, knock it off!.

I never said he didnt have legit points.  I agreed with most of them. Like I mentioned I was just trying to lighten the mood.  TBH I had a death in the family recently and have been very down so just trying to snap myself out of it a little but its hard

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Jets723

Jets723

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2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

So am I good and he’s great? What’s going on here??

Do you think im a good poster?  I wont get upset just want to know. Ive been very down lately because of personal stuff so I may have lost my focus on here a little bit. I apologize

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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7 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Do you think im a good poster?  I wont get upset just want to know. Ive been very down lately because of personal stuff so I may have lost my focus on here a little bit. I apologize

Yep, you’re a solid poster. I think everyone here brings their own unique perspective to the board even if some may be a little towards the “meh” side of things.

But i won’t lie some people here just have very cut and dry opinions about virtually everything.

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Jets723

Jets723

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2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yep, you’re a solid poster. I think everyone here brings their own unique perspective to the board even if some may be a little towards the “meh” side of things.

But i won’t lie some people here just have very cut and dry opinions about virtually everything.

Thanks dude appreciate it. 14 in Green was kinda bashing me for no reason. I tried explaining to him that Villain and I were just messing around 

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