SAM AT THE HALF WAY POINT

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agree.  That’s why I stated yesterday there needs to be a total change in philosophy for the HC and the GM.  Mac has been here for 4 drafts and 4 free agency periods and he has refused to use any decent assets on offensive playmakers.  You have an awful overall philosophy right now, you have a defensive conservative HC paired with a GM who seems to not place a very high premium on acquiring legit playmakers.  People can debate that, but the facts are there, just look at his draft record and the free agents he’s signed.  There is no way I allow this duo to hamstring my young QB any longer.  

there are major philosophical flaws at the top of this organization.  bowles definitely needs to go, it's hashed here a lot.  at this point i'm on the fence with mccags.  i think he's better at the gm thing now than when he started, but i'm not sure he's good enough to take the team to the next level even though he nailed the qb pick and the trade to get him.  herndon is a keeper, and the 2018 draft class seems like his best by far, though that's not saying much.

i think it's 50/50 bowles returns.  CJ never gave him a ringing endorsement and the johnsons have been known to cave to public opinion.

what concerns me more is whether mccagnan, who will definitely be here for at least 2 more years IMO, understands how much draft capital and $ needs to be devoted to the offense in the next few offseasons, or whether he'll preach BAP, draft a passrusher and then take 2 marginal offensive talents in the 3rd round and pretend the offense is much better than last year.

[HelenOfTroy]

21 minutes ago, flgreen said:

IMO Darnold has improved every game since the beginning of the year, and in time is going to be a top QB in the NFL.

Unfortunately at this point of the season it's hard to see it because of injuries to WR's and poor play of the OL.  Yesterday he was only sacked once.  If you only looked at the stats you would assume the OL did a good job.  In reality Darnold made the OL look better then it was.  6-7 times or more yesterday, 2 seconds after the ball was snapped , Sam was chased to his right , and had to either throw the ball at someone's feet , or throw it out of bounds down the right sideline.  A less mobile QB may have been sacked 4-5 more times.  When a QB is running for his life it's really hard for him to display his improvement.

IMO, against the Fish and Bills, he is going to look a lot better, then struggle a bit again as the opponents get tougher.  It was good to see him make a connection again with his ole buddy Tay.

Think when Enunwa gets back his completion % will get back up, but it's going to be hard to rate him against good defensive teams because the OL isn't going to improve this year.

IMO the kid is fine, his improvement has been somewhat stunted because the team in general isn't good.

As an aside, it was great to see that trust carry over from USC....Tay is not the biggest guy, or fastest, but he sure as hell will fight for the ball, and 9/10 will win those battles.  I'm used to seeing that from WRs.

my worry is the coach and FO will cut Tay and not give him a chance to develop further as an NFL WR.

[Lith]

16 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

in the 2nd half yesterday when the jets were actually trying to score, driving for their only td, it occurred to me - the running game isn't protecting darnold anymore.  he's the best guy on that offense and he doesn't want to keep handing it off when they're losing.  he can avoid the rush most of the time.  the running game protects the coach, by keeping the score close, and the gm, who otherwise has to have guys like romo comment that nobody is open, darnold has nobody to throw to, they need to overhaul the offense, etc.  

what disappoints me so much is that when bowles believes he can't win, he has this strategy to keep it close by running and punting, and hoping the other team makes a mistake in the 4th quarter.  you'd think they'd run a trick play every once in a while - a flea flicker would really fool a defense that is geared towards stopping crowell.  

in year 4 of bowles it's clear it does not matter who the qb is or who the OC is. the gameplans remain the same.  

Yup.  If anything, yesterday the running game was holding him back.  Run betwen the tackles on first and second down and then have to throw on 3rd and long.  Seemed like that was the entire first half of the game.   Run on first down.  Run on second down.  Pre-snap penalty.  Throw on 3rd and 12.  I understand trying to establish the run, but at some point you have to see that it is not working.

This offense is just compeltely stagnant.  Little or no motion.  No misdirection.  Never tested the perimieter of the Bears defense.  I get all the injuries, but we did nothing yersterday to scheme guys open and give the QB an easy throw.  

[Savage69]

3 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

As an aside, it was great to see that trust carry over from USC....Tay is not the biggest guy, or fastest, but he sure as hell will fight for the ball.  I'm used to seeing that from WRs.

my worry is the coach and FO will cut Tay and not give him a chance to develop further as an NFL WR.

Even HS coaches teach if you can't catch the ball make sure the DB doesn't also..

[Lith]

6 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

As an aside, it was great to see that trust carry over from USC....Tay is not the biggest guy, or fastest, but he sure as hell will fight for the ball, and 9/10 will win those battles.  I'm used to seeing that from WRs.

my worry is the coach and FO will cut Tay and not give him a chance to develop further as an NFL WR.

Saw that last night -- on the play he made jsut before the TD.  Thought the DB was in position for the pick and Burnett pulled it away from him.  As I just mentioned in the other thread, the kid has earned some playing timethis season after his play yesterday.  And with no WRs under contract fo rnext year, I would like to see what he can do over the next few weeks.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

This offense is just compeltely stagnant.  Little or no motion.  No misdirection.  Never tested the perimieter of the Bears defense.  I get all the injuries, but we did nothing yersterday to scheme guys open and give the QB an easy throw.  

vacarro said as much in his column today.  i don't think bowles is protecting darnold, he's protecting himself.  very selfish coaching, and yet, that still doesn't eliminate the pre snap penalties.  in the end i think it will result in bowles getting fired, b/c i think they're going to lose to the dolphins in much the same way they lost to the bears, and then he will be coaching for his job vs the bills at home before the bye.  if the jets lose both of those games and the offense is still handing it off on 2nd and 15 i think there's a chance he gets fired during the bye week.

[flgreen]

2 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

As an aside, it was great to see that trust carry over from USC....Tay is not the biggest guy, or fastest, but he sure as hell will fight for the ball.  I'm used to seeing that from WRs.

my worry is the coach and FO will cut Tay and give him a chance.

With this HC you never know, but if he keeps on making plays like he did yesterday it will be hard to keep him on the bench, or cut him with the crap WR's they are putting out there now. I believe Tay had 4 catches on 4 targets, Kearse had 3 catches on 10 targets.

I was impressed by the kid yesterday, hope Bowles is paying attention.  lol  Think that is a connection that will reward the Jets for years to come

 

[HelenOfTroy]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

Saw that last night -- on the play he made jsut before the TD.  Thought the DB was in position for the pick and Burnett pulled it away from him.  As I just mentioned in the other thread, the kid has earned some playing timethis season after his play yesterday.  And with no WRs under contract fo rnext year, I would like to see what he can do over the next few weeks.

Yup, Sam made that throw knowing Tay would catch it....just like they did at USC.  If that trust is there, you take chances, and there is definitely trust between those two.  One of the biggest, gamer plays in USC history was between those two.  Hope some of that magic happens at this level with the Jets.

[flgreen]

14 minutes ago, Lith said:

Yup.  If anything, yesterday the running game was holding him back.  Run betwen the tackles on first and second down and then have to throw on 3rd and long.  Seemed like that was the entire first half of the game.   Run on first down.  Run on second down.  Pre-snap penalty.  Throw on 3rd and 12.  I understand trying to establish the run, but at some point you have to see that it is not working.

This offense is just compeltely stagnant.  Little or no motion.  No misdirection.  Never tested the perimieter of the Bears defense.  I get all the injuries, but we did nothing yersterday to scheme guys open and give the QB an easy throw.  

Yeah, couldn't figure out the logic in putting Cannon out there, he certainly has the speed to stretch the perimeter, which is what you want in a zone blocking scheme, then run him between the tackles.  Don't get it.

[nyjunc]

I couldn't be happier with our rookie QB so far. He's been everything I expected and more under incredibly difficult circumstances.  

[ScarletKnight89]

I think he's done a good job considering the circumstances. He's a rookie QB playing on a below average team. He's had his good weeks and bad weeks. It's normal for a rookie QB to be up and down.

It was nice to see him not have a disaster game yesterday against Chicago when it felt like the stage was set for one. He didn't turn the ball over. He did the same thing against Jacksonville where the team was playing bad all game but he himself didn't implode. That says something.

[Jetmech]

I wish we could have seen Sam with Morton as OC for an apples to apples comparison with what McCown did last year. Morton/McCown were the only reasons that the Jets “overachieved” last year and firing Morton(the first competent OC that we’ve had in a long time) is coming back to bite Bowles right in the *ss. 

Still a strange move and Bates was like his 3rd choice..

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[dbatesman]

I was at the game yesterday and he looked fine. There was nothing that blew me away (other than his pocket presence, which is very impressive in person), but overall he looked composed and never seemed overwhelmed. The biggest problem with the offense yesterday was that literally no one could get open, ever. When they did, Darnold put the ball where it needed to go and it was either dropped or knocked away. This may be confirmation bias, but I came away much more impressed with Darnold than with Trubisky, who had guys open and regularly airmailed the ball. Not sure if all that adds up to franchise QB or not, just my .02. 

[Patriot Killa]

44 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I was at the game yesterday and he looked fine. There was nothing that blew me away (other than his pocket presence, which is very impressive in person), but overall he looked composed and never seemed overwhelmed. The biggest problem with the offense yesterday was that literally no one could get open, ever. When they did, Darnold put the ball where it needed to go and it was either dropped or knocked away. This may be confirmation bias, but I came away much more impressed with Darnold than with Trubisky, who had guys open and regularly airmailed the ball. Not sure if all that adds up to franchise QB or not, just my .02. 

There was one play where Mitch was rolling to his left and had a man open, instead of readjusting his body and resetting to make the throw accurately, he just threw it from the position his body was already in, as you said, airmailed it way out of bounds. Even Sam at 21 would of known to quickly reset before firing... most likely a completion if that’s Darnold.

[dbatesman]

12 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

There was one play where Mitch was rolling to his left and had a man open, instead of readjusting his body and resetting to make the throw accurately, he just threw it from the position his body was already in, as you said, airmailed it way out of bounds. Even Sam at 21 would of known to quickly reset before firing... most likely a completion if that’s Darnold.

I know exactly what play you're talking about, because I thought the same thing. The guy was open, but instead of squaring up to throw, Trubisky just kind of let it rip. That was the most egregious example, but he did that a few other times too. I'm not any kind of expert on this, but even to my untrained eye, his mechanics are a mess.

[southtown24th]

Looked last night...

Darnold (now): 11 TDs and 10 Ints

Sanchez (rookie year) 12 TDs and 20 Ints

 

Already a much better outcome and a much better trajectory.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, southtown24th said:

Looked last night...

Darnold (now): 11 TDs and 10 Ints

Sanchez (rookie year) 12 TDs and 20 Ints

 

Already a much better outcome and a much better trajectory.

Mark's INTs came in bunches, the majority came in 4 games.  His other 11 games he was good.  He had more help around him.  The key for Sam is not getting him killed and destroying his confidence.  I expect we'll have a lot more talent around him next year and beyond.  Sanchez went South when all the talent around him was gone.  

[southtown24th]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Mark's INTs came in bunches, the majority came in 4 games.  His other 11 games he was good.  He had more help around him.  The key for Sam is not getting him killed and destroying his confidence.  I expect we'll have a lot more talent around him next year and beyond.  Sanchez went South when all the talent around him was gone.  

right but, 12 TDs in an entire season? That's brutal.  Sam already has 11...with this team and this pile of garbage.

[nyjunc]

Just now, southtown24th said:

right but, 12 TDs in an entire season? That's brutal.  Sam already has 11...with this team and this pile of garbage.

That's not brutal, it was a different time in this league.  Sam has 250 attempts, Sanchez had 364 for the season. Mark had a good rookie year

[TxJetfan]

Overall he's been better than expected IMO. For someone his age, with only 8 games under his belt, he has established himself as the leader of the offense, it's obvious that his team believes in him.  Remember Jared Goff's rookie year? Everyone was declaring him a bust.  This kid certainly looks, at least so far like the real thing. He has shown poise, accuracy, the ability to extend plays, and importantly, the ability to shake off a bad throw, or an interception and bounce back.  I'm excited to see what he'll be able to accomplish in the next 2-3 seasons if he can get the right pieces in place around him. If he can stay healthy, I think this kid can be an outstanding QB for years to come.

[Villain The Foe]

17 hours ago, Jets723 said:

If you aren’t happy with Sam then I guess you will never be happy.  He is 21 the youngest ever to start since the merger. He has a bad oline which makes it tough for him.  He has had to deal with injuries from his favorite targets like Enunwa and Robby.  Has he made rookie mistakes? Of course but it’s normal.  Honestly half his interceptions were screwups by his receivers. Also so many drops.  Despite all the obstacles he has shown mental toughness and flashes of being a gamer

I agree with the highlighted. There's no need for anyone, even folks who didnt entirely buy into Darnold coming out of USC (like myself), to somehow be unhappy about what he's put on tape at the halfway point. 

This dude has talent, but he does need the proper coaching and supporting cast...like any QB. 

However, we need to chill with all of the excuses as well. It's one thing not to be unhappy with Sam, it's another to acknowledge some concerning things. Every rookie starting QB will deal with some level of injuries to his targets and screwups by receivers that cause INT's. 

But telling half the story in order to make him look better doesnt really help. Example: 

It doesnt help to point out that half of his INT's were screwups by receivers yet say nothing about the half dozen INT's dropped by the defense or actual INT's that were reversed because of defensive penalties on the other side of the field. 

See what I mean? 

Folks need not to be overly critical of Darnold, but also, we need not to explain away his stats. Sam Darnold has been good thus far and has flashed enough to show that if we actually build a team, the Jets could arguably have the best QB in the division once Brady is gone. 

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

in the 2nd half yesterday when the jets were actually trying to score, driving for their only td, it occurred to me - the running game isn't protecting darnold anymore.  he's the best guy on that offense and he doesn't want to keep handing it off when they're losing.  he can avoid the rush most of the time.  the running game protects the coach, by keeping the score close, and the gm, who otherwise has to have guys like romo comment that nobody is open, darnold has nobody to throw to, they need to overhaul the offense, etc.  

what disappoints me so much is that when bowles believes he can't win, he has this strategy to keep it close by running and punting, and hoping the other team makes a mistake in the 4th quarter.  you'd think they'd run a trick play every once in a while - a flea flicker would really fool a defense that is geared towards stopping crowell.  

in year 4 of bowles it's clear it does not matter who the qb is or who the OC is. the gameplans remain the same.  

Great post.  All of it.  Word for word.

I said it yesterday in the game thread, when you are the lesser team and have players out of the game, you have to do something different.  You have to adjust.  You have to at least try to be unique and specific.  Get who you have involved in ways to take advantage of whatever little skill they may have, they're on the roster for a reason.  Todd rather play it close and lose pretty.

I gave the example of my Gators.  Clearly the lesser team this weekend and they tried everything; flea flickers, option throws, new players, 2 QB's, different formations, etc.  They went all out and made it a lot closer of a game than the score indicated.  I think the Gators will be a better team for it and I can tell you right now one thing Gator country isnt doing is questioning the heart of Dan Mullen or his team.

The biggest issue with the Jets is the bold and then adding Todd Bowles is throwing oil on the fire.  4 years under this regime and the best player on offense is a 21 year old QB with 3 years of starting QB experience because we've been focused on build his defense which is terrible.  Couple that with the way he treats his young QB and it's scary to think that they are more than likely bringing them all back next year. 

[southtown24th]

5 minutes ago, TxJetfan said:

Overall he's been better than expected IMO. For someone his age, with only 8 games under his belt, he has established himself as the leader of the offense, it's obvious that his team believes in him.  Remember Jared Goff's rookie year? Everyone was declaring him a bust.  This kid certainly looks, at least so far like the real thing. He has shown poise, accuracy, the ability to extend plays, and importantly, the ability to shake off a bad throw, or an interception and bounce back.  I'm excited to see what he'll be able to accomplish in the next 2-3 seasons if he can get the right pieces in place around him. If he can stay healthy, I think this kid can be an outstanding QB for years to come.

I was there for Jared Goff's rookie year...it was UGLY.

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, southtown24th said:

I was there for Jared Goff's rookie year...it was UGLY.

Yeah, but was otherworldly levels of bad. 

2 years later, dude is MVP level status. Great to see what can happen to a guy who has great talent around him and a coach who knows what the hell he's doing. 

 

I was watching that Packers game and the formation that the Rams run creates open receivers. It's a beautiful things to see. 

[Patriot Killa]

14 minutes ago, JiF said:

Great post.  All of it.  Word for word.

I said it yesterday in the game thread, when you are the lesser team and have players out of the game, you have to do something different.  You have to adjust.  You have to at least try to be unique and specific.  Get who you have involved in ways to take advantage of whatever little skill they may have, they're on the roster for a reason.  Todd rather play it close and lose pretty.

I gave the example of my Gators.  Clearly the lesser team this weekend and they tried everything; flea flickers, option throws, new players, 2 QB's, different formations, etc.  They went all out and made it a lot closer of a game than the score indicated.  I think the Gators will be a better team for it and I can tell you right now one thing Gator country isnt doing is questioning the heart of Dan Mullen or his team.

The biggest issue with the Jets is the bold and then adding Todd Bowles is throwing oil on the fire.  4 years under this regime and the best player on offense is a 21 year old QB with 3 years of starting QB experience because we've been focused on build his defense which is terrible.  Couple that with the way he treats his young QB and it's scary to think that they are more than likely bringing them all back next year. 

I couldn’t agree more in the game thread when you mentioned this and still can’t. 

On point

Bates obviously doesnt have the schematic mind or creativity to use these guys to their strengths, attack weak spots in the defense or be unique in general.

Just a lot of run, left, run right, pass.

That is where the good coordinators shine. It’s where you can tell who has a real good coaching mind and who doesn’t. 

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I couldn’t agree more in the game thread when you mentioned this and still can’t. 

On point

Bates obviously doesnt have the schematic mind or creativity to use these guys to their strengths, attack weak spots in the defense or be unique in general.

Just a lot of run, left, run right, pass.

That is where the good coordinators shine. It’s where you can tell who has a real good coaching mind and who doesn’t. 

Look, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on play calling but I see teams try different creative ways to get players the ball all over the NFL.  The Bears were doing it.  I legit dont even remember the receivers who were catching balls for them yesterday.  Even when it was just smoke and mirrors, there is movement and it gives the D a different look/something to think about.  The Jets dont do that, its the same thing series after series and it's not working but nothing changes.

[Jets723]

41 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I agree with the highlighted. There's no need for anyone, even folks who didnt entirely buy into Darnold coming out of USC (like myself), to somehow be unhappy about what he's put on tape at the halfway point. 

This dude has talent, but he does need the proper coaching and supporting cast...like any QB. 

However, we need to chill with all of the excuses as well. It's one thing not to be unhappy with Sam, it's another to acknowledge some concerning things. Every rookie starting QB will deal with some level of injuries to his targets and screwups by receivers that cause INT's. 

But telling half the story in order to make him look better doesnt really help. Example: 

It doesnt help to point out that half of his INT's were screwups by receivers yet say nothing about the half dozen INT's dropped by the defense or actual INT's that were reversed because of defensive penalties on the other side of the field. 

See what I mean? 

Folks need not to be overly critical of Darnold, but also, we need not to explain away his stats. Sam Darnold has been good thus far and has flashed enough to show that if we actually build a team, the Jets could arguably have the best QB in the division once Brady is gone. 

Never said he didn’t make any mistakes.  Not making excuses either.  He has had tough games no doubt. However I do think it is very fair to bring up the lack of talent around him even before the injuries.  I mean for example his center was screwing up snaps at least 7-8 times per game lol

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, southtown24th said:

Looked last night...

Darnold (now): 11 TDs and 10 Ints

Sanchez (rookie year) 12 TDs and 20 Ints

 

Already a much better outcome and a much better trajectory.

To think how much better the team was around Sanchez. That roster was a legit contending roster minus Mark. 

It’s ridiculous how much money and high picks Maccagnan has had over his term and this is what we’re dealing with. It’s a total colossal joke. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, Jets723 said:

Never said he didn’t make any mistakes.  Not making excuses either.  He has had tough games no doubt. However I do think it is very fair to bring up the lack of talent around him even before the injuries.  I mean for example his center was screwing up snaps at least 7-8 times per game lol

To be fair, you didnt say that he didnt make any mistakes. You just ignored them while highlighting teammates mistakes. 

This is why I said what I said. It's not a vacuum. You cant expose everyone's mistakes around Sam then ignore Sams mistakes. 

On one end it can be said that Sam doesnt look good because of the lack of talent, but when has that talent ever had a competent QB or coaching staff? 

 

There's so much more that goes into it outside of "It's their fault and their not talented enough". Sam's stats are his stats, what we should be looking at are his traits. 

The Jets got handed another loss last night, but when thinking of Sam, I look back at that TD pass to Herndon and say "WOW. It's just a matter of time with this dude". 

The offensive line is atrocious. I said that back when @Philc1 was trying to convince the world that they're "mediocre to average". Folks with eyes clearly knew that was false. 

Maybe you're not making excuses, but you're definitely highlighting the limitations of the folks around Sam to the point that it seems like you're pushing blame their way as if Sam didnt play a part. Sam has looked like a rookie, and looked like a rookie alot of times when folks werent doing anything wrong on the field. 

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

Look, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on play calling but I see teams try different creative ways to get players the ball all over the NFL.  The Bears were doing it.  I legit dont even remember the receivers who were catching balls for them yesterday.  Even when it was just smoke and mirrors, there is movement and it gives the D a different look/something to think about.  The Jets dont do that, its the same thing series after series and it's not working but nothing changes.

A TON of RPO play where either Mitch took off on us or the running back took the ball. You know why? Because we were off balance, didn’t know what to expect and it was effective. Matt Nagy attacked our weaknesses as a defense. Mitch looked like Michael Vick out there. 

The misdirections you mentioned, the constant movement, the play fakes, the out routes(because we played with coushioned coverage for some weird reason and have been for the entire season.)

the blocking assignments on the screen plays even looked so much better designed for the Bears. They out coached us and I knew from the minute Cohen had the 70 TD run that it was going to be a loss because Bowles cannot adjust to anything that looks partially creative. When teams take advantage of us, they are allowed to do it the entire game and that’s the main issue with Bowles. He doesn’t try to make a reactionary change to how we are being beat. He just continues to be beat.

[Jets723]

36 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

To be fair, you didnt say that he didnt make any mistakes. You just ignored them while highlighting teammates mistakes. 

This is why I said what I said. It's not a vacuum. You cant expose everyone's mistakes around Sam then ignore Sams mistakes. 

On one end it can be said that Sam doesnt look good because of the lack of talent, but when has that talent ever had a competent QB or coaching staff? 

 

There's so much more that goes into it outside of "It's their fault and their not talented enough". Sam's stats are his stats, what we should be looking at are his traits. 

The Jets got handed another loss last night, but when thinking of Sam, I look back at that TD pass to Herndon and say "WOW. It's just a matter of time with this dude". 

The offensive line is atrocious. I said that back when @Philc1 was trying to convince the world that they're "mediocre to average". Folks with eyes clearly knew that was false. 

Maybe you're not making excuses, but you're definitely highlighting the limitations of the folks around Sam to the point that it seems like you're pushing blame their way as if Sam didnt play a part. Sam has looked like a rookie, and looked like a rookie alot of times when folks werent doing anything wrong on the field. 

Not really. I’m being pretty fair.  I said sam had rough games and didn’t blame anybody for that

[Villain The Foe]

13 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Not really. I’m being pretty fair.  I said sam had rough games and didn’t blame anybody for that

Not really? It looked like you were setting the foundation. Let me show you.

You start by talking about him being 21 and the youngest QB since the merger, then immediately go into the Oline then injuries. 

By the time you actually talk about his mistakes you've already set the foundation that it's because he's younger than anyone else, he has a poor line and he's dealing with injuries around him....then double down by saying that he's a rookie so it's normal. 

Then you immediately say what you "honestly" think....and that honesty part was literally cleaning up his INT's that are on the books...something that rookies normally do. 

Lets be real, it's not fair. Not that I have a problem with it generally, but I think that if you're going to call folks out who are unhappy, you cant immediately proceed by staking the deck. That's all im saying. 

 

[Jets723]

9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Not really? It looked like you were setting the foundation. Let me show you.

You start by talking about him being 21 and the youngest QB since the merger, then immediately go into the Oline then injuries. 

By the time you actually talk about his mistakes you've already set the foundation that it's because he's younger than anyone else, he has a poor line and he's dealing with injuries around him....then double down by saying that he's a rookie so it's normal. 

Then you immediately say what you "honestly" think....and that honesty part was literally cleaning up his INT's that are on the books...something that rookies normally do. 

Lets be real, it's not fair. Not that I have a problem with it generally, but I think that if you're going to call folks out who are unhappy, you cant immediately proceed by staking the deck. That's all im saying. 

 

I didn’t “set the foundation” for anything.  First of all I never called anybody out.  I just said unless your  expectations were unreasonable we should be happy with what we have seen from Sam considering the circumstances.   Again I’m being pretty fair but if you want to keep doing this fine but I’m out

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I didn’t “set the foundation” for anything.  First of all I never called anybody out.  I just said unless your  expectations were unreasonable we should be happy with what we have seen from Sam considering the circumstances.   Again I’m being pretty fair but if you want to keep doing this fine but I’m out

You did say that, in your very first sentence. Everything you said after that first sentence though was what it was. It's there for anyone to read. 

Im just saying that we shouldn't be cleaning up INT's or making excuses for a kid how's been solid. 

He doesnt need the extra help by explaining away INT's or anything else. 

I do understand that you're out. That's cool. 

 

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

You did say that, in your very first sentence. Everything you said after that first sentence though was what it was. It's there for anyone to read. 

Im just saying that we shouldn't be cleaning up INT's or making excuses for a kid how's been solid. 

He doesnt need the extra help by explaining away INT's or anything else. 

I do understand that you're out. That's cool. 

 

Again I wasn’t making excuses for him. I was simply pointing out weaknesses we have.  I also said sam had a few awful games that were on him.  For example the Browns game.!!Now can we end this?