RB Melvin Gordon to hold out, wants trade if no deal

[Jetster]

10 hours ago, New York Mick said:

FFS I wish I had your optimism. 

I believe Gase is going to a blessing for Sam Darnold & teams are going to have to be on their toes NOT JUST FOR BELL, but stopping Sam too. 

It turned out Bates should have stayed in the Mountains, is he even coaching this year? Gase LOVES using the entire field, something that Sam has proven he's pretty damn adept at. How many beautiful throws did Sam make on the money near the sidelines? 

That means the days of defenses squeezing the Jets offense into a phone booth are over! BB constantly did this against us. Every single offensive skill player should have just a bit more space to work with. Sam keeps the CBs wide because he can throw the out with ease, Robby keeps the safety hedging because he knows the CB has to get outside. A LB has to spy Bell for the throw to the flat, but that opens up Herndon to blow past & be wide open in the seam. All that space makes it easy for Crowder & Quincy to just sit down in open spaces. The only thing missing now is an upgraded Oline & WR like Mike Evans. Could you imagine? Especially if Wesco can develop into a bigger Kyle Rudolph. 

Yes, I'm incredibly optimistic because I envision Sam as a point guard, running Gase offense & developing each game with an expanded playbook. Sam has that innate awareness that you just can't teach + off script he's fantastic. He's going to be a PITA to defend when he's really settled in & truly understands what's going on around him. You could tell the last quarter of the year he was getting use to the speed of the game. But he's also a technician, and when he starts putting it all together with Gase mentoring him he's gonna be fun to watch. And I'm talking about the little things you started to see last year like use of cadence to get defenses to jump, running up to the LOS on 3rd & 4th and short to get the opposing team to use a TO or quickly getting the snap off & QB sneaking a 1st down ala Tom Brady (When's the last time you saw a Jet QB do that?). I think Gase will let Sam run the show more & more and he'll be like a field general out there in no time. He's a heavily invested smart really young guy who studies, trains, keeps his mouth shut & listens, leads by example, can make every throw, can run when has to, has eyes in the back of his head, can throw running right or left, he's a f*cking nightmare for a defense when it all clicks. 

THAT IS WHY IM SO OPTIMISTIC! 

[New York Mick]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

I believe Gase is going to a blessing for Sam Darnold & teams are going to have to be on their toes NOT JUST FOR BELL, but stopping Sam too. 

It turned out Bates should have stayed in the Mountains, is he even coaching this year? Gase LOVES using the entire field, something that Sam has proven he's pretty damn adept at. How many beautiful throws did Sam make on the money near the sidelines? 

That means the days of defenses squeezing the Jets offense into a phone booth are over! BB constantly did this against us. Every single offensive skill player should have just a bit more space to work with. Sam keeps the CBs wide because he can throw the out with ease, Robby keeps the safety hedging because he knows the CB has to get outside. A LB has to spy Bell for the throw to the flat, but that opens up Herndon to blow past & be wide open in the seam. All that space makes it easy for Crowder & Quincy to just sit down in open spaces. The only thing missing now is an upgraded Oline & WR like Mike Evans. Could you imagine? Especially if Wesco can develop into a bigger Kyle Rudolph. 

Yes, I'm incredibly optimistic because I envision Sam as a point guard, running Gase offense & developing each game with an expanded playbook. Sam has that innate awareness that you just can't teach + off script he's fantastic. He's going to be a PITA to defend when he's really settled in & truly understands what's going on around him. You could tell the last quarter of the year he was getting use to the speed of the game. But he's also a technician, and when he starts putting it all together with Gase mentoring him he's gonna be fun to watch. And I'm talking about the little things you started to see last year like use of cadence to get defenses to jump, running up to the LOS on 3rd & 4th and short to get the opposing team to use a TO or quickly getting the snap off & QB sneaking a 1st down ala Tom Brady (When's the last time you saw a Jet QB do that?). I think Gase will let Sam run the show more & more and he'll be like a field general out there in no time. He's a heavily invested smart really young guy who studies, trains, keeps his mouth shut & listens, leads by example, can make every throw, can run when has to, has eyes in the back of his head, can throw running right or left, he's a f*cking nightmare for a defense when it all clicks. 

THAT IS WHY IM SO OPTIMISTIC! 

The team hasn’t won a SB in my lifetime (I'm 48) and went to only 4 AFC championships. Every time they get a new coach/GM/QB it falls flat so that’s why I’m pessimistic.

Gase needs to prove he’s a winning coach still and Darnold progress before I’ll be optimistic. I have more faith in Darnold then I do Gase.

The oline is my biggest concern, they’re one injury away from being bad. As they are now they’re serviceable but not a top group. The addition of Bell is huge and will help Darnold and the WRs get open as long as the oline can do it’s job.

Bell and Crowder Both should get a lot of catches and help move the chains but Wesco is a blocking TE so I don’t think he’ll be anything like Rudolph.

The defense also needs to step up if they want to win. They need to get pressure on the QB, do better in coverage and get off the field sooner. They give up too many long drives. 

[nycdan]

11 hours ago, RoadFan said:

I hear ya dude.

Yeah... I mean clearly the Rams lost nothing going from Gurley to CJA.  That offense was humming in the SB.

The Chiefs?  They didn't miss Hunt at all.

And my personal fave... the Steelers.  Of course they were the same team with Conner as they were with Le'V Bell.  I mean since Bell shed the 15-20 lbs to play lighter after his rookie season, Pittsburgh won 10 games, 11 games twice, and 13 games.  *Bell only played six games in 2015, the 10 win season due to injury.*  But hey, the Steelers went 9-6-1 with Conner!?!?

A backup rushes for 100 and scores a TD or two... and everything is just fine and dandy.

What a crock.

NFL games are often close.  3 point lines.  The difference between Le'V Bell and James Conner is not negligible.   It is significant.  Like 2 to 3 wins significant.  Bell is sometimes the best player on the field.  Anybody think that about Conner?  Ever?

 

 

Disagree with numbers to back it up.  Conner did absolutely everything Bell did for the Steelers.

1,470 yards from scrimmage in and 13 TDs in 13 games.  His 5.4 Y/Touch was above Bell's career average and much better than his 2017 number of 4.8.  Bell put up 11 TDs twice in 15 and 16 game seasons.  

Not to take anything away from Bell, who was amazing so far, but the difference for PIT from Bell to Conner WAS negligible by the numbers.  PIT scored more points in 2018 than in any of the previous 3 seasons.  They also gave up 42 more points in 2018 than in the average of the previous 3 seasons.  You said NFL games are often 3 point lines.  PIT gave up a full 3.2 points more per game in 2018 than in 2017.  

You want to find an excuse for them not winning more games, don't pin it on Conner.  Start with the games they lost 42-37, 33-30, and 31-28.

[#27TheDominator]

37 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Disagree with numbers to back it up.  Conner did absolutely everything Bell did for the Steelers.

1,470 yards from scrimmage in and 13 TDs in 13 games.  His 5.4 Y/Touch was above Bell's career average and much better than his 2017 number of 4.8.  Bell put up 11 TDs twice in 15 and 16 game seasons.  

Not to take anything away from Bell, who was amazing so far, but the difference for PIT from Bell to Conner WAS negligible by the numbers.  PIT scored more points in 2018 than in any of the previous 3 seasons.  They also gave up 42 more points in 2018 than in the average of the previous 3 seasons.  You said NFL games are often 3 point lines.  PIT gave up a full 3.2 points more per game in 2018 than in 2017.  

You want to find an excuse for them not winning more games, don't pin it on Conner.  Start with the games they lost 42-37, 33-30, and 31-28.

I'm glad that you bolded that because it is why your stats are meaningless. Context It is much more difficult to get yards in a low scoring game than a shoot out.  When teams are scoring 40 points, do you think they really give a sh*t about if Conner gets 4.7 ypc or 5.2?  They are concentrating on stopping big plays, Brown and Ju-Ju.  It is much more difficult to get yardage at the end of game you are winning when the other team knows you have to run and get first downs to ice the game. 

I'm not saying Conner isn't a fine back, but I don't think these raw numbers show him as being Bell's equal.  Bell's yards per number were all down in 2017 because Pittsburgh was riding him like a rented mule on the franchise tag.  They wanted to use him up and they did. 

[Joe W. Namath]

54 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Disagree with numbers to back it up.  Conner did absolutely everything Bell did for the Steelers.

1,470 yards from scrimmage in and 13 TDs in 13 games.  His 5.4 Y/Touch was above Bell's career average and much better than his 2017 number of 4.8.  Bell put up 11 TDs twice in 15 and 16 game seasons.  

Not to take anything away from Bell, who was amazing so far, but the difference for PIT from Bell to Conner WAS negligible by the numbers.  PIT scored more points in 2018 than in any of the previous 3 seasons.  They also gave up 42 more points in 2018 than in the average of the previous 3 seasons.  You said NFL games are often 3 point lines.  PIT gave up a full 3.2 points more per game in 2018 than in 2017.  

You want to find an excuse for them not winning more games, don't pin it on Conner.  Start with the games they lost 42-37, 33-30, and 31-28.

Connor singlehandedly lost the steelers 2 games last year w/ awful plays in end of game clutch situations.

The numbers were similiar but bell would have completed those plays.

[nycdan]

8 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Connor singlehandedly lost the steelers 2 games last year w/ awful plays in end of game clutch situations.

The numbers were similiar but bell would have completed those plays.

Which games?

[Joe W. Namath]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Which games?

Sunday was not one of Conner's best games, however, as the second year back managed just 25 yards rushing on nine carries against the Jacksonville Jaguars' stout run defense. He also averaged just four yards per reception on Sunday while dropping what would have been the go-ahead score with just under a minute remaining.

 

On Sunday's Conner's fumble helped lead to the Broncos' game-winning touchdown.

 

[nycdan]

17 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Sunday was not one of Conner's best games, however, as the second year back managed just 25 yards rushing on nine carries against the Jacksonville Jaguars' stout run defense. He also averaged just four yards per reception on Sunday while dropping what would have been the go-ahead score with just under a minute remaining.

 

On Sunday's Conner's fumble helped lead to the Broncos' game-winning touchdown.

 

I thought you might mention the Broncos game.  That quote makes zero sense as the fumble was in the third quarter.  The big fumble was at the goal-line by the TE.  Ben threw 2 INTs including the one that sealed the loss at the end of the game.  He also threw 56 times while Conner rushed 13 times in a game that was tight the whole way.  To say he singlehandedly lost the game on a 3rd quarter fumble is...a stretch.

As for the JAX game, I can't figure out what you are referring to.  Conner dropped a pass.  But they still got a first down after that and scored on that same drive with 5 seconds left and won the game.  So he certainly didn't singlhandedly lose that game either.  He didn't rush well one week.

I get that some people don't want him to be as good as Bell but he really was.  And I suspect that Juju will put up very Antonio Brown like numbers this season.  

[chirorob]

14 hours ago, Warfish said:

Sorry Chirob, wasn't trying to be rude.

I legit have no idea who this guy is.  Nor did I get why we'd be talking about a speculative maybe-available RB given Bell.

No worries, it's very quiet so yeah, and I'm not the Mod anyway thank God, so you can talk about anything you like.  Just made go "huh?" when I first read it.

All good. 

[RoadFan]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Disagree with numbers to back it up.  Conner did absolutely everything Bell did for the Steelers.

1,470 yards from scrimmage in and 13 TDs in 13 games.  His 5.4 Y/Touch was above Bell's career average and much better than his 2017 number of 4.8.  Bell put up 11 TDs twice in 15 and 16 game seasons.  

Not to take anything away from Bell, who was amazing so far, but the difference for PIT from Bell to Conner WAS negligible by the numbers.  PIT scored more points in 2018 than in any of the previous 3 seasons.  They also gave up 42 more points in 2018 than in the average of the previous 3 seasons.  You said NFL games are often 3 point lines.  PIT gave up a full 3.2 points more per game in 2018 than in 2017.  

You want to find an excuse for them not winning more games, don't pin it on Conner.  Start with the games they lost 42-37, 33-30, and 31-28.

I have seen the "numbers" argument many times.  I have watched both play.  One is good. One is truly special.

There is a bit if a human element too.  Some, not all of the Steelers player were really, REALLY pissed at Le'V.  They knew how big the dropoff was.

I can't provide a film breakdown.   This guy does.

 

[Joe W. Namath]

55 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I thought you might mention the Broncos game.  That quote makes zero sense as the fumble was in the third quarter.  The big fumble was at the goal-line by the TE.  Ben threw 2 INTs including the one that sealed the loss at the end of the game.  He also threw 56 times while Conner rushed 13 times in a game that was tight the whole way.  To say he singlehandedly lost the game on a 3rd quarter fumble is...a stretch.

As for the JAX game, I can't figure out what you are referring to.  Conner dropped a pass.  But they still got a first down after that and scored on that same drive with 5 seconds left and won the game.  So he certainly didn't singlhandedly lose that game either.  He didn't rush well one week.

I get that some people don't want him to be as good as Bell but he really was.  And I suspect that Juju will put up very Antonio Brown like numbers this season.  

U can spin it anyway you want. Conor fumbled and it lead to a game winning drive.  Mike Tomlin came out after that and acknowleged connor has an issue fumbling.

And yes, the steelers bailed out their teammate in Jax but that doesnt excuse connor for botching an easy, super important play.  You have to make that catch and score there.

Listen, connor is a very good player.  But hes not close to the player bell is.  Hell, hed probably tell you that himself.

[nycdan]

27 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

I have seen the "numbers" argument many times.  I have watched both play.  One is good. One is truly special.

There is a bit if a human element too.  Some, not all of the Steelers player were really, REALLY pissed at Le'V.  They knew how big the dropoff was.

I can't provide a film breakdown.   This guy does.

 

Good analysis.  I am looking forward to seeing both these guys be awesome this year (but Bell a little more so).  

[King P]

On 7/11/2019 at 11:57 AM, chirorob said:

Is there so much Jets info right now we can't chat about other teams?

This just goes along with what I have been saying for the longest time

17 hours ago, Warfish said:

I legit have no idea who this guy is.

And it's that most Jets fans are clueless and or just don't care about any football that doesn't pertain to the Jets.

They're bigger Jets fans than actual football teams. Pretty sure most of them would stop watching/caring about football altogether if the Jets ever ceased to exist.

Which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, but that type of thinking has never computed with me ??‍♂️

[Warfish]

26 minutes ago, King P said:

This just goes along with what I have been saying for the longest time

And it's that most Jets fans are clueless and or just don't care about any football that doesn't pertain to the Jets.

They're bigger Jets fans than actual football teams. Pretty sure most of them would stop watching/caring about football altogether if the Jets ever ceased to exist.

Which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, but that type of thinking has never computed with me ??‍♂️

I freely admit to being a Jets Fan, not a generic NFL Fan.  

Seems that last line is mutual, as I've never quite understood "generic" Fans of sports who lack a rooting interest in a specific team.

I have a certain amount of time/bandwidth and I find that time best spent knowing the Jets and their division rivals well, and the rest of the league only more general terms.  If I need to know more about someone, the internet is always here to inform me.  

Looking at this guy, is about what I expected, 4 year player, broke 1,000 yards rushing only once, not a guy who gets a lot of pub nationally or gets a ton of notice, a RB-by-committee type talent who shared carries with two other guys last year, one of whom wasn't too far behind him (Ekeler), who I also have never really heard of.  

Doesn't seem like the kind of talent that can pull a Bell-type holdout move tbqh.  But I guess we'll see.

[MichaelScott]

On 7/11/2019 at 10:37 AM, Warfish said:

Who?

And we care....why?

The OP thought if they posted about something other than the Jets the thread might remain void of your misery. Clearly underestimated you. 

[RoadFan]

17 hours ago, Jetster said:

I believe Gase is going to a blessing for Sam Darnold & teams are going to have to be on their toes NOT JUST FOR BELL, but stopping Sam too. 

It turned out Bates should have stayed in the Mountains, is he even coaching this year? Gase LOVES using the entire field, something that Sam has proven he's pretty damn adept at. How many beautiful throws did Sam make on the money near the sidelines? 

That means the days of defenses squeezing the Jets offense into a phone booth are over! BB constantly did this against us. Every single offensive skill player should have just a bit more space to work with. Sam keeps the CBs wide because he can throw the out with ease, Robby keeps the safety hedging because he knows the CB has to get outside. A LB has to spy Bell for the throw to the flat, but that opens up Herndon to blow past & be wide open in the seam. All that space makes it easy for Crowder & Quincy to just sit down in open spaces. The only thing missing now is an upgraded Oline & WR like Mike Evans. Could you imagine? Especially if Wesco can develop into a bigger Kyle Rudolph. 

Yes, I'm incredibly optimistic because I envision Sam as a point guard, running Gase offense & developing each game with an expanded playbook. Sam has that innate awareness that you just can't teach + off script he's fantastic. He's going to be a PITA to defend when he's really settled in & truly understands what's going on around him. You could tell the last quarter of the year he was getting use to the speed of the game. But he's also a technician, and when he starts putting it all together with Gase mentoring him he's gonna be fun to watch. And I'm talking about the little things you started to see last year like use of cadence to get defenses to jump, running up to the LOS on 3rd & 4th and short to get the opposing team to use a TO or quickly getting the snap off & QB sneaking a 1st down ala Tom Brady (When's the last time you saw a Jet QB do that?). I think Gase will let Sam run the show more & more and he'll be like a field general out there in no time. He's a heavily invested smart really young guy who studies, trains, keeps his mouth shut & listens, leads by example, can make every throw, can run when has to, has eyes in the back of his head, can throw running right or left, he's a f*cking nightmare for a defense when it all clicks. 

THAT IS WHY IM SO OPTIMISTIC! 

The fact that we haven't seen the bold in years is criminal organizational dysfuntion.

[14 in Green]

17 hours ago, Jetster said:

I believe Gase is going to a blessing for Sam Darnold & teams are going to have to be on their toes NOT JUST FOR BELL, but stopping Sam too. 

It turned out Bates should have stayed in the Mountains, is he even coaching this year? Gase LOVES using the entire field, something that Sam has proven he's pretty damn adept at. How many beautiful throws did Sam make on the money near the sidelines? 

That means the days of defenses squeezing the Jets offense into a phone booth are over! BB constantly did this against us. Every single offensive skill player should have just a bit more space to work with. Sam keeps the CBs wide because he can throw the out with ease, Robby keeps the safety hedging because he knows the CB has to get outside. A LB has to spy Bell for the throw to the flat, but that opens up Herndon to blow past & be wide open in the seam. All that space makes it easy for Crowder & Quincy to just sit down in open spaces. The only thing missing now is an upgraded Oline & WR like Mike Evans. Could you imagine? Especially if Wesco can develop into a bigger Kyle Rudolph. 

Yes, I'm incredibly optimistic because I envision Sam as a point guard, running Gase offense & developing each game with an expanded playbook. Sam has that innate awareness that you just can't teach + off script he's fantastic. He's going to be a PITA to defend when he's really settled in & truly understands what's going on around him. You could tell the last quarter of the year he was getting use to the speed of the game. But he's also a technician, and when he starts putting it all together with Gase mentoring him he's gonna be fun to watch. And I'm talking about the little things you started to see last year like use of cadence to get defenses to jump, running up to the LOS on 3rd & 4th and short to get the opposing team to use a TO or quickly getting the snap off & QB sneaking a 1st down ala Tom Brady (When's the last time you saw a Jet QB do that?). I think Gase will let Sam run the show more & more and he'll be like a field general out there in no time. He's a heavily invested smart really young guy who studies, trains, keeps his mouth shut & listens, leads by example, can make every throw, can run when has to, has eyes in the back of his head, can throw running right or left, he's a f*cking nightmare for a defense when it all clicks. 

THAT IS WHY IM SO OPTIMISTIC! 

So, it sounds like you’re thinking maybe a 1-5 start for the Jets this year....?

[PS17]

1 hour ago, MichaelScott said:

The OP thought if they posted about something other than the Jets the thread might remain void of your misery. Clearly underestimated you. 

Warfish could win the Powerball for $500 million and be distraught about having to pay half of the winnings in tax. 

[Jetster]

6 hours ago, RoadFan said:

The fact that we haven't seen the bold in years is criminal organizational dysfuntion.

How many times have we watched our offense in a 3rd, 4th & short fail? Too many times. Jets were the most unprepared offensive team on Sundays. I always said the Jets offense always ran like an old 12 cylinder Jaquar, sputtering at the wrong time.

[Jetster]

6 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

So, it sounds like you’re thinking maybe a 1-5 start for the Jets this year....?

Uh...no.