Josh Allen evolving while Darnold regresses...

[QB1]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Joe Flacco had the same circumstances and put up a 6/3 TD:INT ratio.  

Darnold, meanwhile, has failed to throw a TD pass in 5 of the last 6 games.  In the 2020 version of the NFL.  He just sh*t the bed, again, this time against the league's worst pass defense.

It's an objective truth at this point:  Darnold sucks.  

Not really Flacco was trash until he got Mims/Perriman/Crowder on the field together. Darnold has had that crew for (1) game. They both have been terrible.

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Finished....like burnt toast.  

Of all the lame excuses for Darnold's sh*t play, none have been funnier than the one where people are forced to defend Joe Flacco, who has sucked for the last 8 years.

Flacco is at least competent. Darnold is a basket case, but feel free to continue lashing out, you'll slay those dragons, I swear.

Surprising reaction from your little sister btw

[RocketBills]

11 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

You’re probably right, didn’t google all his stats so I’ll take your word on it.

That said, my other points stand. He was not accurate in college and developed tremendously. With his physical gifts, he’ll likely be the best QB of that class and one of the best in the NFL. It’s really hard to kill teams that passed on him but kudos the bills, they did get a bit lucky with Allen.

The Bills have a great supporting cast around him. I’m not just talking about offense/diggs/oline. I mean the defense as well. The confidence a shutdown defense can do for a QB is immeasurable. Just ask Sanchez. 

The bills have the D to carry them to a championship, no doubt.

The Bills D has certainly played better over the last 4-5 weeks of the season but as a whole, it's the offense that has largely carried the Bills.  (see Seattle and Rams games for examples).  Last night I would argue was a total team effort.  Both the O and the D started off slowly but the D finished the 2nd quarter with the pick 6 and the offense had two beautiful td drives to open the 3rd.  Complimentary football at its finest.  But no way is the defense carrying the offense.   Not this year.  Both units have stepped up when called upon.  It's refreshing actually.  Not used to this lol.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

NFL GMs have yet to crack the code on how to reliably evaluate the mental part necessary to play QB.

this is true which is why I like to emphasize the raw talent 

Sam Darnold always had "enough" physical gifts to play but neither he nor Sanchez were what any one could call "elite" athletes in anyway 

not elite tall, not elite fast, not elite arm strength 

when the prospect evaluation comes down to "he's got amazing accuracy hitting wide open recievers in the pac 12 sometimes"

none of that transfers to sundays

meanwhile Josh Allen's evaluation of raw guy with a cannon arm, at least there's something to build around physically 

there's nothing physically special about Sam Darnold not as a QB prospect and not as a LB prospect if we want to go back to HS days 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, RocketBills said:

The Bills D has certainly played better over the last 4-5 weeks of the season but as a whole, it's the offense that has largely carried the Bills.  (see Seattle and Rams games for examples).  Last night I would argue was a total team effort.  But the O and the D started off slowly but the D finished the 2nd quarter with the pick 6 and the offense had two beautiful td drives to open the 3rd.  Complimentary football at its finest.  But no way is the defense carrying the offense.   Not this year.  Both units have stepped up when called upon.  It's refreshing actually.  Not used to this lol.

Ya'll have a legit chance to make a deep playoff run this year. 

I could see a Bills-Chiefs AFC title game. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

In fairness to everyone here and the rest of the NFL, it’s probably extremely rare that a QB with the accuracy issues Allen had in college and the first 2 years suddenly becomes a 70% passer.

I’m not sure if Allen physically changed how he throws or if it’s more a testament to the system put around him (I think more the later). 

That said, even during the draft, everyone knew he had the highest upside but were terrified he’d never overcome his accuracy issues. There was always the chance if he did, he’d be the best of the bunch. Unfortunately that scenario is playing out.

Frankly, I’m not sure he’s totally fixed his accuracy. Deep passing was still off last night but he’s done wonders for his short and mid-range game (again, not sure if it’s the system more or him).

 

What Allen has done is historically unprecedented.  To have his college resume AND have such a lackluster first 2 seasons of his pro career, only to do what he's doing in Year 3.....never happened before in the NFL.  Accuracy and turnover issues like his aren't supposed to get "fixed" at the NFL level.  

That said, those who continue to argue that Darnold is as good, could be as good, could have been as good, etc as Allen are lunatics.  Straight up.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

I said it last year with Lamar Jackson. Allen is better than Jackson, but he has not shown to be anything near a great Qb

Great?  No.  Great is hard to reach.  But that wasn't where the bar was really set for Allen.  He's outplaying his draft spot at the moment and appears to be the top QB from his class.  That's far better than just about anyone thought he'd do.

[bitonti]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 That's far better than just about anyone thought he'd do.

There was a early point in the draft process (preseason?) when Kiper had Josh Allen at 1 overall based on physical upside 

 

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There was a early point in the draft process (preseason?) when Kiper had Josh Allen at 1 overall based on physical upside 

 

Yep and even folks who had him low tended to feel like he had the highest upside of any QB in that draft. He was always portrayed as a high ceiling/low floor guy. Boom or bust. 

And he is booming. 

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is true which is why I like to emphasize the raw talent 

Sam Darnold always had "enough" physical gifts to play but neither he nor Sanchez were what any one could call "elite" athletes in anyway 

not elite tall, not elite fast, not elite arm strength 

when the prospect evaluation comes down to "he's got amazing accuracy hitting wide open recievers in the pac 12 sometimes"

none of that transfers to sundays

meanwhile Josh Allen's evaluation of raw guy with a cannon arm, at least there's something to build around physically 

there's nothing physically special about Sam Darnold not as a QB prospect and not as a LB prospect if we want to go back to HS days 

It’s a bit comforting that had Giants drafted Darnold, Macc was going Rosen. I really believe Allen wasn’t on his board due to superficial similarity to Hackenberg.

[BuffaloRulez]

41 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

The first 5 drives for the Bills were all punts and turnovers. Really impressive . This is Allen’s greatness

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

This is such a dumb comment. 

[jgb]

22 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Delete your account. 

Until you compare two QBs under the exact set of circumstances, it is impossible to evaluate one against the other.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRulez said:

This is such a dumb comment. 

Shrink the sample size enough and I can make the case that Aaron Rodgers sucks.

[Jetsbaby93]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Shrink the sample size enough and I can make the case that Aaron Rodgers sucks.

Then compare Allen Darnold year 1 and 2 with similar weapons though Allen had such bad weapons year 1. I saw a jump from Allen that I didn’t see with Sam 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jetsbaby93 said:

Then compare Allen Darnold year 1 and 2 with similar weapons though Allen had such bad weapons year 1 

Yeah the weaponz argument is a rabbit hole to nowhere. Good QBs show it. Allen has, Darnold hasn't. 

Case closed to all but (some) Jets fans.

[Jetsbaby93]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah the weaponz argument is a rabbit hole to nowhere. Good QBs show it. Allen has, Darnold hasn't. 

Case closed to all put (some) Jets fans.

I agree with you. I’m against the people saying it’s just coaching it’s just the weapons. Not giving Allen credit for off seasons of just working his tail off studying the game it’s just crazy to me 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsbaby93 said:

I agree with you. I’m against the people saying it’s just coaching it’s just the weapons. Not giving Allen credit for off seasons of just working his tail off studying the game it’s just crazy to me 

Narratives gonna narrative

[slimjasi]

40 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Darnold has had that crew for (1) game. They both have been terrible.

Incorrect. 

He had that crew for two games (Dolphins, Raiders). 

In one game, he put up 3 points and 197 yards passing. 

In the other, the team ran for 200+ yards and he threw for 186 yards and 2 TDs. 

[JustInFudge]

Sam Darnold is a mega bust who just flat out sucks but this is truly one of the better stories how drafting, developing, surrounding with talent and coaching truly matters.  The Bills were a playoff team that have continued to add talent every single year through the draft, trades and FA.  The Jets were terrible and have amazingly gotten worse since they drafted Darnold.  Which is actually impressive when you think about it.  This is the least talented team I've ever seen.

 

[hamat711]

3 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Last year this argument was made for lamar jackson who though is still decent has regressed. Allen looks great this year but he is on a far superior team. Statistically you can not argue that allen is the better qb this season but I have faith darnold will be better in the long haul let's see next year what he looks like with a better team around him.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Josh Allen's style of play is much easier to sustain compared to Jackson's. Josh Allen is beating teams with his arm, and making amazing throws consistently. He is manipulating defenses now.

The Ravens were amazing because teams didn't know how to stop their scheme. Lamar will still be good, but everyone knew that was something that could be "figured out".

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, QB1 said:

Not really Flacco was trash until he got Mims/Perriman/Crowder on the field together. Darnold has had that crew for (1) game. They both have been terrible.

Not true on basically all accounts for this post.

And how did Darnold do with that trio, btw?

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Flacco is at least competent. Darnold is a basket case, but feel free to continue lashing out, you'll slay those dragons, I swear.

Right.  Flacco is competent.  Sam Darnold is not.  Glad we agree.

[maury77]

7 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Vince could run, but his arm was nowhere near Allen or Cam's. Vince threw like Uncle Rico.

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Right.  Flacco is competent.  Sam Darnold is not.  Glad we agree.

You just can't let it go, can you? You always need to get the last word which NEVER winds up being the last word because you twist a statement and make a point that needs to then be addressed. There's always gotta be a coup de grace with you. lol

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

Vince could run, but his arm was nowhere near Allen or Cam's. Vince threw like Uncle Rico.

True. How about Michael Vick? Ten times more athletic than either one of them but with as good an arm.

This one traveled 65 yards in the air only because that's how far Jackson had run. 

You'd have to be a moron to react to this fact with...oh wait it's this jeremy person.

[maury77]

9 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

True. How about Michael Vick? Ten times more athletic than either one of them but with as good an arm.

Vick was up there, but he was short (6' or 6'1" I believe). Cam and Josh Allen could play 2 guard in the NBA.

[Facts]

35 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

True. How about Michael Vick? Ten times more athletic than either one of them but with as good an arm.

Vick had a very strong arm, but I don't think it's Allen level.

Allen can put a ball on a frozen rope like few in the NFL can.

https://twitter.com/thecheckdown/status/1336128024266170368?s=20

https://twitter.com/BillyM_91/status/1336127768443166722?s=20

[QB1]

6 minutes ago, Facts said:

Vick had a very strong arm, but I don't think it's Allen level.

Allen can put a ball on a frozen rope like few in the NFL can.

https://twitter.com/thecheckdown/status/1336128024266170368?s=20

https://twitter.com/BillyM_91/status/1336127768443166722?s=20

That corner endzone throw he had last night was godly 

[Gastineau Lives]

29 minutes ago, Facts said:

Vick had a very strong arm, but I don't think it's Allen level.

Allen can put a ball on a frozen rope like few in the NFL can.

https://twitter.com/thecheckdown/status/1336128024266170368?s=20

https://twitter.com/BillyM_91/status/1336127768443166722?s=20

Ok whatevs, Bills fan

[Jetsbaby93]

For how small Vick was compared to Allen. Vick’s arm was insane he was throwing gunshots 

[Gastineau Lives]

37 minutes ago, Jetsbaby93 said:

For how small Vick was compared to Allen. Vick’s arm was insane he was throwing gunshots 

Vick's athletic ability is greater vs Allen's than Allen's arm is to Vick's. Guy would flick the ball sixty yards down the field on the run.

[Jetsbaby93]

12 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Vick's athletic ability is greater vs Allen's than Allen's arm is to Vick's. Guy would flick the ball sixty yards down the field on the run.

I agree with that. As of now the most athletically gifted QB I’ve ever seen is Vick. For speed and arm Vick is the hands down winner scary to think what he could of been

[Facts]

43 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Guy would flick the ball sixty yards down the field on the run.

This did not ever happen.

Vick’s longest pass (in the air) was a 67 yard throw vs the Panthers. He had to stop, square hit feet, and put his entire body into it. 

It was incomplete.

His 2nd longest was a 62 yard pass against the Redskins. Again, he had to stop and heave his body into it. It was a beautiful throw.

His longest pass (in the air) on the run was closer to 30 or 40 yards (I believe it was a 39 yarder against the Cowboys).

With all his talent, he really should have accomplished more. It’s too bad.

 

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

Vince could run, but his arm was nowhere near Allen or Cam's. Vince threw like Uncle Rico.

But Uncle Rico could throw a pigskin a quarter mile!!!! 

[Gastineau Lives]

33 minutes ago, Facts said:

This did not ever happen.

Vick’s longest pass (in the air) was a 67 yard throw vs the Panthers. He had to stop, square hit feet, and put his entire body into it. 

It was incomplete.

His 2nd longest was a 62 yard pass against the Redskins. Again, he had to stop and heave his body into it. It was a beautiful throw.

His longest pass (in the air) on the run, I believe was closer to 30-40 yards (I believe it was a 39 yarder against the Cowboys).

With all his talent, he really should have accomplished more. It’s too bad.

 

Psst

This pass was launched at the three and was caught at the 33 on the other side. That's 65. Also, the only pass I bothered to look at.