Ex WR weighs in on Wilson vs. Fields debate

[GreenReaper]

4 hours ago, TokyoJetsFan said:

...and a good system.  With Brian Schottenheimer named the Passing Game Coordinator and QB coach of the Jaguars, Trevor Lawrence is already facing an uphill battle

TL & Schotty's O..."lets roll"...

 

 

[clayton163v]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Burrow and Herbert didn’t win any games and in Burrow’s case his crappy roster got him killed last season

I must add that the knock on Burrow was that he was not built for the violence of the NFL.  While both of them got smashed, Burrow got broken.  It is what worries me about our savior.  We shall see.

[flgreen]

5 hours ago, hmhertz said:

Your mention of Rosen conjures a point when discussing Wilson.

It has been said about both, two rich kids who will quit at

any adversity because they don't need the money.

Say what you wish about Joshy but he certainly hasn't

given up because of family wealth

You realize of course that the money is on Mom's side of the family .    Wilson's father is a blue collar guy.  An auto mechanic.  He now owns a couple of gas stations in their home town.  Did the influence of the  Neeleman   money help secure the loans to buy the gas stations?  Probably, but he still goes to work every day as a mechanic, and runs the business.  They are not "RICH" , but more like upper middle class.

Unless Zach wants to be changing oil the rest of his life I suspect he'll stay with football

 

[oatmeal]

5 hours ago, hmhertz said:

Your mention of Rosen conjures a point when discussing Wilson.

It has been said about both, two rich kids who will quit at

any adversity because they don't need the money.

Say what you wish about Joshy but he certainly hasn't

given up because of family wealth

Rosen isn’t built like this at all:

 

[Greensleeves]

6 hours ago, hmhertz said:

Your mention of Rosen conjures a point when discussing Wilson.

It has been said about both, two rich kids who will quit at

any adversity because they don't need the money.

Say what you wish about Joshy but he certainly hasn't

given up because of family wealth

What? So, just because your uncle is rich that means your family is rich too? Is that how you would feel if your uncle was rich - that you are rich too? I mean, it's simply not true. 

[Jet_Engine1]

6 hours ago, rayzor said:

Ex-Bengals WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh weighs in on key draft debate: Zach Wilson vs. Justin Fields

By DJ BIEN-AIME II

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |

APR 08, 2021 AT 10:53 AM

 

 

Former Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver T. J. Houshmandzadeh has watched BYU’s Zach Wilson and Ohio State’s Justin Fields work out live in California as both prospects prepare for the draft. Houshmandzadeh was impressed by both and views both as high-end talents.  Throughout the offseason, the Jets have been linked to Wilson with the No. 2 overall pick in the 2021 NFL Draft. There’s also been some interest from the Jets in Fields.  Wilson has been hyped as the second best quarterback in this draft class after leading BYU to a 11-1 record. He finished with 3,692 passing yards with 33 touchdowns and added 10 scores on the ground. Scouts drool over his style of play that reminds them of Green Bay Packers star Aaron Rodgers.  After studying Wilson and watching his workouts in person, Houshmandzadeh sees a special talent.  “His release is so quick and effortless like Aaron Rodgers type release. It just comes out his hand really, really easy man. It’s like he’s not even trying, and then it jumps out what a ton of velocity,” Houshmandzadeh told the Daily News. “Then his speed and athleticism. People know he is athletic, but he is an explosive dude. Laterally very explosive, he’s vertically explosive and he moves like a skill guy.”  The 2007 Pro Bowler believes if Wilson ran a 40-yard dash, he would run a blazing time.  “He would be in the 4.4s or a high 4.5, easy. That’s the type of athleticism he has,” the 11-year pro said. “He’s faster than Pat Mahomes. He’s a really good athlete playing quarterback.”  If the Jets draft Wilson, a major key to his success will be what type of talent they surround him with. Sam Darnold suffered from an abysmal supporting cast and couldn’t overcome it. Darnold was traded to the Carolina Panthers after three disappointing seasons. He leaves the Jets with a dismal passer rating of 78.6 and a 13-25 record as a starter.  The Jets have 10 picks in the upcoming draft and must fill the roster with productive players to prevent another Darnold-like situation with the new quarterback.  “The Jets are gonna struggle unless they draft some guys,” Houshmandzadeh said. “Wilson is probably going to be the No. 2 pick and guarantee they’re going to be saying, ‘Man was he overdrafted, he’s not that good,’ If they don’t get players around him.  The same way they didn’t have players around Darnold. And now everybody says, ‘Sam Darnold sucks.’ He didn’t have any guys around them. And if that happens with Zach, it’s going to be the same narrative.”  He believes Wilson will thrive with Gang Green if they provide him with a good supporting cast.  “If he gets guys around him, he’ll be really good,” Houshmandzadeh said. “It’s what it boils down to. When you look at Josh Allen, Allen was OK, decent. (Added) Stefon Diggs, oh, now (Allen) really good. Baker Mayfield was just kind of middling along. And he still has his ups and downs, but he’s got better guys around him. Better run game, he had a really good year.”  The Jets offensive coordinator Mike LeFleur will run a west coast offense like the one Kyle Shanahan runs with the San Francisco 49ers.  Wilson’s throwing ability to produce explosive plays with off-platform throws along with his athleticism will fit well into the Jets’ scheme.  “I think they’re gonna run an offense that fits Wilson. When you draft a guy that high, I truly believe you don’t make him fit into what you do, you fit into what he does,” Houshmandzadeh said. “The offense will be tailored to what he did well in BYU and they’re going to tailor their offensive system to his strengths.” 

 

 The other quarterback that the Jets have shown interest in is Fields.  He led his team to the National Championship game against Alabama in January, after outdueling Trevor Lawrence in the Sugar Bowl by going 22-of-28 for 385 yards with six touchdowns as the Buckeyes blasted Clemson, 49-28.  When Houshmandzadeh was asked about his impressions from watching Fields’ workout and studying him, he was equally impressed. And scoffed at some of the negative perception surrounding Field’s mental ability.  “It was pretty much the same as Zach. You hear the stuff and a lot of it is the same old same old. A Black quarterback, ‘He’s gone be athletic, but can he throw with anticipation? Can he throw accurately?’” Houshmandzadeh said as he mocked those questions. “He did just that. He was layering the ball, he was getting the ball up over and underneath coverage. He just wasn’t just gunning the ball in there he was thrown in with some touch. But when we were done, I was like, ‘Damn, he’s actually pretty f--king good.’”  

 

Houshmandzadeh said at this point he can’t pick between the two.  “It’s really hard to say who’s better,” Houshmandzadeh said. “The better guy is gonna be the guy that gets to the better team. I mean, just being honest with you, if either one of those guys can get to the 49ers, that guy’s the better player. Because he’s gonna have a better team around him, better success.”

 

Cue the Houshmandzadeh who? posts but he does make sense.

[flgreen]

 

May be the dumbest thing I've ever seen, but after a few tokes, and beers ............................ Why not?   

[pointman]

I've caught a few footballs in my life (pop warner, freshman, jv mostly) and I can say there are two things many people enjoy from a QB. An accurate, well spun ball you can count on. Meaning, you run your route, run your internal clock in your head, cut, turn, boom. Ball is hot and spicy waiting right where it should. It hits you in stride, right in that tight window. Butter. The second is the QB who can throw the ball up and trusts you and gives you a chance to get up and get it. The issue is the latter. When a QB's film has that toss up "go get it" ball. Thats a lot of hoping and praying and luck. And I see a ton of that in the film I see online for Wilson. Tight ends, wide outs love that toss up... fans and coaches shouldn't. ESPECIALLY, at the nfl level where even the worst corners like Dee Milliner can get his head around to see where the balls at. I hope thats not the case for Wilson when he's spinning it for us in the months to come. Just my worry. No paragraphs. Thanks for reading and coming to my Ted talk.

[pdxgreen]

if either one of those guys can get to the 49ers, that guy’s the better player.

(good think one is going to us... because we have an effect on players too!)

[addage]

7 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Burrow and Herbert didn’t win any games and in Burrow’s case his crappy roster got him killed last season

Not true!  The CC Unit says he's hanging in there.

[addage]

I was a big trade down guy.  So the Houshmandzadeh article made me feel a lot better.  Completely agree about his views on team quality.

[rayzor]

10 hours ago, rayzor said:

 The 2007 Pro Bowler believes if Wilson ran a 40-yard dash, he would run a blazing time.  “He would be in the 4.4s or a high 4.5, easy. That’s the type of athleticism he has,” the 11-year pro said. “He’s faster than Pat Mahomes. He’s a really good athlete playing quarterback.”

A lot of people here questioned Wilson's 40 time ability.  Even thought he faked injury to avoid running it.  Unless he runs one, we'll never know.  But TJ's estimate would be surprisingly fast.  For comparison, here are some  QB 40 times. Unsure of accuracy but here:

1. Lamar Jackson: 4.34 at Louisville team testing*

2. Justin Fields: 4.44

3. Marcus Mariota: 4.52u

4. Russell Wilson: 4.53u

5. Cam Newton: 4.56u

6. Deshaun Waton: 4.66u

T-6. Andrew Luck: 4.67u

T-6. Mitchell Trubisky: 4.67u

8. Derek Carr: 4.69u

9.Aaron Rodgers: 4.71u

T-10. Ben Roethlisberger: 4.75u

T-10. Josh Allen: 4.75u

12. Carson Wentz: 4.77u

13. Dak Prescott: 4.79u

14. Patrick Mahomes: 4.80u

15. Matthew Stafford: 4.81u

T-16. Jared Goff: 4.82u

T-16. Andy Dalton: 4.82u

18. Drew Brees: 4.83u

T-19. Baker Mayfield: 4.84u

T-19. Joe Flacco: 4.84u

T-19. Kirk Cousins: 4.84u

22. Sam Darnold: 4.85u

23. Matt Ryan: 4.89u

T-24. Josh Rosen: 4.92u

T-24. Eli Manning 4.92u

T-26. Jimmy Garoppolo: 4.97u

T-26. Jameis Winston: 4.97u

28. Dwayne Haskins(?): 5.04u

29. Phillip Rivers: 5.08u

30. Nick Foles: 5.14u

31. Tom Brady: 5.28u

32. Kyler Murray: unknown... rumored to be 4.38

[JetBlue]

10 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Mahomes with Adam Gase instead of Andy Reid, no wrs and a crappy OL yeah he’d a won 3 Super Bowls by now

How do you know Bowles would have been fired if he had Mahomes instead of Darnold as a rookie?   For all we know the team could have gone 8-8 that year and Bowles might still be here today... 

[JetBlue]

3 hours ago, pointman said:

I've caught a few footballs in my life (pop warner, freshman, jv mostly) and I can say there are two things many people enjoy from a QB. An accurate, well spun ball you can count on. Meaning, you run your route, run your internal clock in your head, cut, turn, boom. Ball is hot and spicy waiting right where it should. It hits you in stride, right in that tight window. Butter. The second is the QB who can throw the ball up and trusts you and gives you a chance to get up and get it. The issue is the latter. When a QB's film has that toss up "go get it" ball. Thats a lot of hoping and praying and luck. And I see a ton of that in the film I see online for Wilson. Tight ends, wide outs love that toss up... fans and coaches shouldn't. ESPECIALLY, at the nfl level where even the worst corners like Dee Milliner can get his head around to see where the balls at. I hope thats not the case for Wilson when he's spinning it for us in the months to come. Just my worry. No paragraphs. Thanks for reading and coming to my Ted talk.

Yeah but he does both of what you just mentioned at an elite level so I don't understand your concern, especially when you consider in Davis, Mims and even Cole we have 3 of the the best (potentially in Mims case) 50-50 ball receivers in the league. 

[Smashmouth]

22 hours ago, rayzor said:

Ex-Bengals WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh weighs in on key draft debate: Zach Wilson vs. Justin Fields

By DJ BIEN-AIME II

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |

APR 08, 2021 AT 10:53 AM

 

 

Former Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver T. J. Houshmandzadeh has watched BYU’s Zach Wilson and Ohio State’s Justin Fields work out live in California as both prospects prepare for the draft. Houshmandzadeh was impressed by both and views both as high-end talents.  Throughout the offseason, the Jets have been linked to Wilson with the No. 2 overall pick in the 2021 NFL Draft. There’s also been some interest from the Jets in Fields.  Wilson has been hyped as the second best quarterback in this draft class after leading BYU to a 11-1 record. He finished with 3,692 passing yards with 33 touchdowns and added 10 scores on the ground. Scouts drool over his style of play that reminds them of Green Bay Packers star Aaron Rodgers.  After studying Wilson and watching his workouts in person, Houshmandzadeh sees a special talent.  “His release is so quick and effortless like Aaron Rodgers type release. It just comes out his hand really, really easy man. It’s like he’s not even trying, and then it jumps out what a ton of velocity,” Houshmandzadeh told the Daily News. “Then his speed and athleticism. People know he is athletic, but he is an explosive dude. Laterally very explosive, he’s vertically explosive and he moves like a skill guy.”  The 2007 Pro Bowler believes if Wilson ran a 40-yard dash, he would run a blazing time.  “He would be in the 4.4s or a high 4.5, easy. That’s the type of athleticism he has,” the 11-year pro said. “He’s faster than Pat Mahomes. He’s a really good athlete playing quarterback.”  If the Jets draft Wilson, a major key to his success will be what type of talent they surround him with. Sam Darnold suffered from an abysmal supporting cast and couldn’t overcome it. Darnold was traded to the Carolina Panthers after three disappointing seasons. He leaves the Jets with a dismal passer rating of 78.6 and a 13-25 record as a starter.  The Jets have 10 picks in the upcoming draft and must fill the roster with productive players to prevent another Darnold-like situation with the new quarterback.  “The Jets are gonna struggle unless they draft some guys,” Houshmandzadeh said. “Wilson is probably going to be the No. 2 pick and guarantee they’re going to be saying, ‘Man was he overdrafted, he’s not that good,’ If they don’t get players around him.  The same way they didn’t have players around Darnold. And now everybody says, ‘Sam Darnold sucks.’ He didn’t have any guys around them. And if that happens with Zach, it’s going to be the same narrative.”  He believes Wilson will thrive with Gang Green if they provide him with a good supporting cast.  “If he gets guys around him, he’ll be really good,” Houshmandzadeh said. “It’s what it boils down to. When you look at Josh Allen, Allen was OK, decent. (Added) Stefon Diggs, oh, now (Allen) really good. Baker Mayfield was just kind of middling along. And he still has his ups and downs, but he’s got better guys around him. Better run game, he had a really good year.”  The Jets offensive coordinator Mike LeFleur will run a west coast offense like the one Kyle Shanahan runs with the San Francisco 49ers.  Wilson’s throwing ability to produce explosive plays with off-platform throws along with his athleticism will fit well into the Jets’ scheme.  “I think they’re gonna run an offense that fits Wilson. When you draft a guy that high, I truly believe you don’t make him fit into what you do, you fit into what he does,” Houshmandzadeh said. “The offense will be tailored to what he did well in BYU and they’re going to tailor their offensive system to his strengths.” 

 

 The other quarterback that the Jets have shown interest in is Fields.  He led his team to the National Championship game against Alabama in January, after outdueling Trevor Lawrence in the Sugar Bowl by going 22-of-28 for 385 yards with six touchdowns as the Buckeyes blasted Clemson, 49-28.  When Houshmandzadeh was asked about his impressions from watching Fields’ workout and studying him, he was equally impressed. And scoffed at some of the negative perception surrounding Field’s mental ability.  “It was pretty much the same as Zach. You hear the stuff and a lot of it is the same old same old. A Black quarterback, ‘He’s gone be athletic, but can he throw with anticipation? Can he throw accurately?’” Houshmandzadeh said as he mocked those questions. “He did just that. He was layering the ball, he was getting the ball up over and underneath coverage. He just wasn’t just gunning the ball in there he was thrown in with some touch. But when we were done, I was like, ‘Damn, he’s actually pretty f--king good.’”  

 

Houshmandzadeh said at this point he can’t pick between the two.  “It’s really hard to say who’s better,” Houshmandzadeh said. “The better guy is gonna be the guy that gets to the better team. I mean, just being honest with you, if either one of those guys can get to the 49ers, that guy’s the better player. Because he’s gonna have a better team around him, better success.”

 

Cue the Houshmandzadeh who? posts but he does make sense.

Fields release is not quick at all not sure WTF he was watching at pro day and I really don't care about pro days but Fields release has a big wind up too it so this sounds like a bunch of horsesh*t to me. Fields is a tremendous athlete in every aspect of his game so I do believe he can shorten his release which is a lot easier than say fixing all the problems with a Sam Darnold who has terrible mechanics and footwork and bad pocket awareness. We wont see much on Fields pocket awareness until he starts getting snaps in the NFL

[Bowles Movement]

23 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

I think they'd have shown more than the guy we got for sure.

And yeah I think Wilson will be better than Fields regardless of where they end up. I really do think he's that much better. Fields needs to sit for a year. 

Obviously the Jets need to get talent around the QB for their own sake but the great QB's generally show what they're capable of even in bad situations. 

Did Hall of Famer Steve Young do well on Tampa Bay?  Archie Manning on New Orleans?  How many games did Matt Ryan win last year?

[Irish Jet]

2 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

Did Hall of Famer Steve Young do well on Tampa Bay?  Archie Manning on New Orleans?  How many games did Matt Ryan win last year?

Matt Ryan had a better season last year than any Jets QB ever.

I’m not saying great QB’s can consistently carry their team but they will still occasionally show enough brilliance to compete. Certainly more than that piece of trash Darnold ever did.

[Bowles Movement]

1 minute ago, Irish Jet said:

Matt Ryan had a better season last year than any Jets QB ever.

I’m not saying great QB’s can consistently carry their team but they will still occasionally show enough brilliance to compete. Certainly more than that piece of trash Darnold ever did.

Yet Atlanta is drafting right behind the Jets despite his brilliant season.

You make a good argument for having a complete team!

[rayzor]

55 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Fields release is not quick at all not sure WTF he was watching at pro day and I really don't care about pro days but Fields release has a big wind up too it so this sounds like a bunch of horsesh*t to me. Fields is a tremendous athlete in every aspect of his game so I do believe he can shorten his release which is a lot easier than say fixing all the problems with a Sam Darnold who has terrible mechanics and footwork and bad pocket awareness. We wont see much on Fields pocket awareness until he starts getting snaps in the NFL

Actually, his evaluation wasn't formed from watching the Pro Days.  He was able to see them both live in person working out in California.  He didn't say both of them had quick releases but more like overall they are comparable.  No doubt Wilson's is quickest.

[Irish Jet]

23 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

Yet Atlanta is drafting right behind the Jets despite his brilliant season.

You make a good argument for having a complete team!

What are you talking about?