U.S. Supreme Court Strikes First Nail in the NCAA Coffin

[peebag]

20 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i don't know.  at this point the ncaa and colleges get soooo much money off of college sports it's hard to see how they can't start to pay the players.  but at the same time the whole notion of college sports is to give atheletes a free path to getting a good education and that should count for something.  the problem is when the sports programs become so demanding that the students are shuffled into basket weaving courses to maintain their eligibility.  imo it's too bad it went this way but that's what happens when there's far too much money floating around.

The first major obstacle to paying college athletes would be the title IX law.   Can't just pay the money drawing sports.

[sec101row23]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Not sure what Dabo is paid, but by his worth to the University, his vastly underpaid. I promise you that.

You can measure it by both direct revenue and also indirect revenue from the football program.  The exposure that the school has received since his time here is invaluable.   It’s led to record number of applicants thus creating a more selective admission criteria and in turn leading to a higher academic reputation.   Donations are as high as they have ever been and it’s not because people are giving money because the woman’s soccer team is playing well.   Jim Clemments the University President has been vocal about the “football affect” and why he feels it’s driven so much of the progress that the school has seen.  

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You can measure it by both direct revenue and also indirect revenue from the football program.  The exposure that the school has received since his time here is invaluable.   It’s led to record number of applicants thus creating a more selective admission criteria and in turn leading to a higher academic reputation.   Donations are as high as they have ever been and it’s not because people are giving money because the woman’s soccer team is playing well.   Jim Clemments the University President has been vocal about the “football affect” and why he feels it’s driven so much of the progress that the school has seen.  

Football is popular it seems.

[Jetscode1]

16 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Not sure what Dabo is paid, but by his worth to the University, his vastly underpaid. I promise you that.

Fair point.  He has produced millions for the university officials but has his influence led to a better quality of life for the citizens of South Carolina?  As the highest paid public employee in the state you would think he could make sure his players were properly compensated.  

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Football is popular it seems.

It would appear so.  

[Jetscode1]

5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You can measure it by both direct revenue and also indirect revenue from the football program.  The exposure that the school has received since his time here is invaluable.   It’s led to record number of applicants thus creating a more selective admission criteria and in turn leading to a higher academic reputation.   Donations are as high as they have ever been and it’s not because people are giving money because the woman’s soccer team is playing well.   Jim Clemments the University President has been vocal about the “football affect” and why he feels it’s driven so much of the progress that the school has seen.  

Has the average costs of tuition decreased for the students of South Carolina? I'm just wondering what public good the state obtained for his services?  

[flgreen]

18 hours ago, artemusclyde said:

You seriously going to bring up MiLB which has an antitrust exemption and is known for having pay issues with MiLB? That's a terrible argument, cause the MiLB guys are getting ****ed so should the NCAA football players? Nah man, you can't honestly sit here and tell me the rules are fair when you have CFB coaches making more money then NFL coaches.  Plus, who cares about some crappy communications degrees the players are getting where they just have tutors do all their homework for them. Sh*t's a scam, and based off the courts rulings the NCAA is ****ed.

I didn't bring up minor league baseball, I responded to another poster who was suggesting it as an alfternative.  It's a bad one.

Speaking of bad arguments, the idea that the only degree a  athletic scholarship student can get is "some crappy communications degree" is BS.  There are thousands  of prior NCAA Jocks, and NFL players who have actually used their degrees to become successful bussinessmen, doctors, lawyers, and any other careers they choose to pursue that they otherwise couldn't afford.  The major they choose it their choice.  Many players have have played football and still had top GPA's 

Myself, I could care less about any kind of political/finanical war between the NCAA and people who hate them. What I don't want is a bidding war between 6-10 BIG schools for 18 YO players which will eventually , probably quickly, destroy college football.

The best idea I have heard is that perhaps some compensation can be given to players for use of their image.  

The use of 6 figure signing bonus' to recruit students by major schools is death to college football.

 

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Jetscode1 said:

Has the average costs of tuition decreased for the students of South Carolina? I'm just wondering what public good the state obtained for his services?  

His job is to win football games, he’s not there for the public good of the residents of South Carolina.  

[Scott Dierking]

10 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

Fair point.  He has produced millions for the university officials but has his influence led to a better quality of life for the citizens of South Carolina?  As the highest paid public employee in the state you would think he could make sure his players were properly compensated.  

It is not his call.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

His job is to win football games, he’s not there for the public good of the residents of South Carolina.  

Through indirect measures, he is actually helping the residents of SC. He is helping the economy through increased tourism and sales taxes collected. Plus much, much, more.

[Irish Jet]

5 minutes ago, flgreen said:

The use of 6 figure signing bonus' to recruit students by major schools is death to college football.

If the exploitation of the athletes doing the work and taking the risks is what's required to keep this multi-billion dollar operation going then maybe college football doesn't deserve to live. 

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Through indirect measures, he is actually helping the residents of SC. He is helping the economy through increased tourism and sales taxes collected. Plus much, much, more.

Sure, absolutely.  

[batman10023]

5 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

The sports leagues should be separated from the schools and their budgets. The NCAA should be a separate league that leases a stadium (and/or other space), a logo/mascot, etc from a school, but their finances should be wholly separate otherwise. Schools themselves shouldn't have any direct relationship to making decisions for teams. 

These aren't 'student athletes' in many cases. They're not 'learning' by playing football. They're working a job while they attend college and severing the ties between teams and schools would help that distinction. 

this probably is the way it needs to go - especially to satisfy the title ix issue.  

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

this probably is the way it needs to go - especially to satisfy the title ix issue.  

Can't feasibly be done. Those venues and facilities that they use? They are owned by the University. So, you can be sure they would want a pretty penny for a "3rd party" to use their facilities. Round and round we go.

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

If the exploitation of the athletes doing the work and taking the risks is what's required to keep this multi-billion dollar operation going then maybe college football doesn't deserve to live. 

The value of an athletic scholarship along with tier 1 housing, unlimited food and gear, weight room, health services etc I don’t really see as exploitation. Division 1 football and basketball players have it pretty nice. Not to mention unlimited trim too.

[rangerous]

57 minutes ago, peebag said:

The first major obstacle to paying college athletes would be the title IX law.   Can't just pay the money drawing sports.

that's a good point.  title ix has been corrupted way beyond it's original intent.  the thing is, no matter how anyone slices it, there just aren't many women's teams that have the same money draw as the men's basketball or football.  even CT's women's basketball program can't draw the same money as the men's team and they've been a heck of a lot better.

[Scott Dierking]

26 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The value of an athletic scholarship along with tier 1 housing, unlimited food and gear, weight room, health services etc I don’t really see as exploitation. Division 1 football and basketball players have it pretty nice. Not to mention unlimited trim too.

I would hope that most people here understand that by far, the vast majority of ALL collegiate athletes in all of the collegiate sports are mostly very, vey happy with their circumstance. The opportunity to continue to play a sport they love, represent a university and receive an education at a lowered cost is an outstanding deal.

The largest impediment has been reduced for them has through the relief of the transfer portal and the ability to be free agents and not indentured slaves to just one school. That was particularly unfair.

Of course there are the Ed O'Bannon's, which I understand and respect. But for the vast majority, the system has treated them very fairly and they are happy.

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

His job is to win football games, he’s not there for the public good of the residents of South Carolina.  

The citizens of South Carolina and most of the country agree with your point.  Kind of explains the state of public service in America.  We get what we pay for.

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

It is not his call.

Nice excuse.  He's the highest paid public employee in the state and used price-fixed labor to build a football program.  You would think he could use his influence to throw a few bones to the players who built the brand.  Nah, he didn't haven't the responsibility.  Ethically he's compromised.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Jetscode1 said:

Nice excuse.  He's the highest paid public employee in the state and used price-fixed labor to build a football program.  You would think he could use his influence to throw a few bones to the players who built the brand.  Nah, he didn't haven't the responsibility.  Ethically he's compromised.

This is a very odd point.

Dabo is the football coach. That is what he gets paid for. He is not the President of the University. He is not the President of the NCAA. He is not a member of legislature which help define the rules.

Again, odd point. 

 

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Through indirect measures, he is actually helping the residents of SC. He is helping the economy through increased tourism and sales taxes collected. Plus much, much, more.

Sounds like an argument the Romans used when they put slaves into the Colosseum.  

[Jetscode1]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

This is a very odd point.

Dabo is the football coach. That is what he gets paid for. He is not the President of the University. He is not the President of the NCAA. He is not a member of legislature which help define the rules.

Again, odd point. 

 

Odd point indeed.  The distorted incentives from public policy puts people in difficult positions.  I'd argue that people need to evaluate if they are getting their moneys worth from sports at the collegiate level.

[Jetluv58]

On 6/21/2021 at 1:15 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

we're not doing that conversation here

this is about legal adult football players getting paid for more than tuition + r&b in a $4bn/year spectator sport

Thank you. 

[sec101row23]

7 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

Nice excuse.  He's the highest paid public employee in the state and used price-fixed labor to build a football program.  You would think he could use his influence to throw a few bones to the players who built the brand.  Nah, he didn't haven't the responsibility.  Ethically he's compromised.

Actually he isn’t.   Only 2.4%, or $240,000 of his salary comes from state money.  

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

Odd point indeed.  The distorted incentives from public policy puts people in difficult positions.  I'd argue that people need to evaluate if they are getting their moneys worth from sports at the collegiate level.

I for one, am. So there is that. 

[jeremy2020]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

I didn't bring up minor league baseball, I responded to another poster who was suggesting it as an alfternative.  It's a bad one.

Speaking of bad arguments, the idea that the only degree a  athletic scholarship student can get is "some crappy communications degree" is BS.  There are thousands  of prior NCAA Jocks, and NFL players who have actually used their degrees to become successful bussinessmen, doctors, lawyers, and any other careers they choose to pursue that they otherwise couldn't afford.  The major they choose it their choice.  Many players have have played football and still had top GPA's 

Myself, I could care less about any kind of political/finanical war between the NCAA and people who hate them. What I don't want is a bidding war between 6-10 BIG schools for 18 YO players which will eventually , probbly quickly, destroy college football.

The best idea I have heard is that perhaps some compensation can be given to players for use of their image.  

The use of 6 figure signing bonus' to recruit students by major schools is death to college football.

 

Well, there's absolutely no way possible to compensate student athletes and avoid this scenario so we better keep it as is..

[flgreen]

3 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Well, there's absolutely no way possible to compensate student athletes and avoid this scenario so we better keep it as is..

"The best idea I have heard is that perhaps some compensation can be given to players for use of their image."  

[Jetscode1]

17 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Actually he isn’t.   Only 2.4%, or $240,000 of his salary comes from state money.  

I'm just a guy with an internet connection.  Maybe you know more specifics of his compensation package.  Either way, strange that a public employee can arrange it so he's well compensated but the players actually producing the product were denied fair wages.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/12/30/top-four-football-coaches-in-ncaa-national-playoff-collectively-made-259-million/?sh=2d9adc0031d8

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Jetscode1 said:

I'm just a guy with an internet connection.  Maybe you know more specifics of his compensation package.  Either way, strange that a public employee can arrange it so he's well compensated but the players actually producing the product were denied fair wages.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/12/30/top-four-football-coaches-in-ncaa-national-playoff-collectively-made-259-million/?sh=2d9adc0031d8

Curious, how many families of collegiate athletes, as well athletes have you talked to about how fair the system is from their perspective? 

[Jetscode1]

20 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I for one, am. So there is that. 

The communist in power thought there was plenty of goods and services in the old Soviet Union as well.  Doesn't make it sound public policy.

[sec101row23]

Just now, Jetscode1 said:

I'm just a guy with an internet connection.  Maybe you know more specifics of his compensation package.  Either way, strange that a public employee can arrange it so he's well compensated but the players actually producing the product were denied fair wages.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/12/30/top-four-football-coaches-in-ncaa-national-playoff-collectively-made-259-million/?sh=2d9adc0031d8

Clemson caps the amount of state money that their athletic coaches receive at $245,000.   
 

https://rubbingtherock.com/2020/04/15/clemson-states-highest/

https://www.openthebooks.com/south-carolina-state-employees/

 

 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Jetscode1 said:

The communist in power thought there was plenty of goods and services in the old Soviet Union as well.  Doesn't make it sound public policy.

link? Since you have volunteered you have internet.

[Jetscode1]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Curious, how many families of collegiate athletes, as well athletes have you talked to about how fair the system is from their perspective? 

I'm just following the news.  Obviously there were enough college athletes to file suit and for that lawsuit to get to SCOTUS.  I'd argue it from a public policy perspective that the current NCAA distorts incentives and produces awful results.

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

I'm just a guy with an internet connection.  Maybe you know more specifics of his compensation package.  Either way, strange that a public employee can arrange it so he's well compensated but the players actually producing the product were denied fair wages.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/12/30/top-four-football-coaches-in-ncaa-national-playoff-collectively-made-259-million/?sh=2d9adc0031d8

Voice your concern to Roger. He's the one who controls the 2 years put of high school rule.

[Jetscode1]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Clemson caps the amount of state money that their athletic coaches receive at $245,000.   
 

https://rubbingtherock.com/2020/04/15/clemson-states-highest/

https://www.openthebooks.com/south-carolina-state-employees/

 

 

The additional money came from?  Can we spread it around to the players?