Injured draft picks...GM to blame?

[AFJF]

So I've brought this up a few times in recent weeks due to so many of Joe D's picks getting injured and I think this goes a long way in determining how fans grade his tenure thus far.

For me personally, I don't hold injuries against a GM unless a guy has a history in college that suggests he's soft.  If guys are missing a few chunks of time intermittently throughout their college career and a guy drafts him (see Blake Cashman), that's on the GM IMO.

If the GM drafts a guy who is never hurt or whose injuries never cause him to miss a game and he gets to the NFL and can't stay on the field (Dee Milliner), I don't hold that against the GM.  It's the NFL.  Guys get hurt and you can't predict a guy who has never missed significant time will suddenly have a hard time staying on the field.

Edited October 26, 2021 by AFJF

[freestater]

Re: Becton, his weight puts him in an intrinsically susceptible to injury due to the strain on his body at his size. To believe that it wouldn't hold him back in the pros is to bet against the vast majority. With a proven stalwart choice as an option at that same pick, who has gone on to play a lot more games, its a horrible pick. Its a pick that screams "I'm smarter than everybody else", great when it works out, its a red flag when it doesn’t. 

[Beerfish]

It doesn't matter if it is his fault or not.  You draft successful players or you do not.

[oatmeal]

I mean if the players he select go on to have successful careers and never miss a game, would everyone praise the GM for making the correct selections?

 

Yes 

 

so imo it goes both ways 

 

The GM has to eat the blame for the negative  

[kevinc855]

Why didn't the Bengals resign Lawson who they drafted??

 He was hurt alot......hmmmmm

[Hex]

With no injury history - no. He has no way of telling if they are going to get hurt, so it's got to be something about the nfl.

If they did have an injury history - it's on him mostly for picking them. 

[Larz]

Ravens have more players on IR

the GMs job is to have depth 

[freestater]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

Ravens have more players on IR

the GMs job is to have depth 

Spoiler alert: he sucks at that too. 

[AFJF]

20 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It doesn't matter if it is his fault or not.  You draft successful players or you do not.

Matter of opinion, I suppose.  I think it's his job to draft good football players.  If one of those players gets hurt playing football, there's not something the GM could have done to avoid/prevent that.

[Beerfish]

Just now, AFJF said:

Matter of opinion, I suppose.  I think it's his job to draft good football players.  If one of those players gets hurt playing football, there's not something the GM could have done to avoid/prevent that.

Funny how John Idzik drafted a rookie of the month prospective #1 CB and was flayed for picking him.

If 3 years from now the jets have not made the playoffs do we give douglas an extension because he was unlucky?  It simply does not matter.

A good pick is a good player who plays like a mangold or a d'brick, so far Becton is a bad pick because he does not play.

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Funny how John Idzik drafteNa rookie of the month prospective #1 CB and was flayed for picking him.

If 3 years from now the jets have not made the playoffs do we give douglas an extension because he was unlucky?  It simply does not matter.

A good pick is a good player who plays like a mangold or a d'brick, so far Becton is a bad pick because he does not play.

 

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Funny how John Idzik drafted a rookie of the month prospective #1 CB and was flayed for picking him.

If 3 years from now the jets have not made the playoffs do we give douglas an extension because he was unlucky?  It simply does not matter.

A good pick is a good player who plays like a mangold or a d'brick, so far Becton is a bad pick because he does not play.

Not by me.  I hated Idzik but he wasn't wrong when he said Milliner never missed time in college.  

[AFJF]

13 minutes ago, Larz said:

Ravens have more players on IR

the GMs job is to have depth 

So how many of the 48 or so holes on the roster he inherited should have been filled in two drafts?

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Funny how John Idzik drafted a rookie of the month prospective #1 CB and was flayed for picking him.

If 3 years from now the jets have not made the playoffs do we give douglas an extension because he was unlucky?  It simply does not matter.

A good pick is a good player who plays like a mangold or a d'brick, so far Becton is a bad pick because he does not play.

He was flayed because he had 12 picks and they did absolutely nothing. Didn’t even go to another team and be successful. 
 

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Zachtomims47 said:

He was flayed because he had 12 picks and they did absolutely nothing. Didn’t even go to another team and be successful. 
 

He was flayed over the Dee Milliner pick.....because he was hurt all the time.  And that is the point of the comment since we are talking about hurt players getting gms blamed.  Forget the rest of the draft, was Dee Milliner a good pick?

[Beerfish]

12 minutes ago, AFJF said:

So how many of the 48 or so holes on the roster he inherited should have been filled in two drafts?

How many holes has he actually filled in two drafts?

[peebag]

I'm pretty sure I have a pimple on my ass that is a directly connected with Joe Douglas.

[BP]

The NFL players association is to blame. They keep negotiating that off season conditioning programs are too tough on their players.

 

Also, the Jets are just incompetent in strength and conditioning,period. I think @Scott Dierking put together a list of trainers on the Steelers compared to the Jets. And the Jets had almost all interns and the Steelers had like 20 trainers.

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

He was flayed over the Dee Milliner pick.....because he was hurt all the time.  And that is the point of the comment since we are talking about hurt players getting gms blamed.  Forget the rest of the draft, was Dee Milliner a good pick?

I think he was a good pick.  Can't predict a guy who has never missed time will suddenly start missing time.

I can't say with 100% certainty that I didn't rip the pick at one point or another, but that was more hating Idzik as a GM than actually hating the pick.

Even said on the podcast recently that at much as I hated Idzik, it would be unfair to knock him for the Milliner pick.

 

[Dcat]

59 minutes ago, freestater said:

Re: Becton, his weight puts him in an intrinsically susceptible to injury due to the strain on his body at his size. To believe that it wouldn't hold him back in the pros is to bet against the vast majority. With a proven stalwart choice as an option at that same pick, who has gone on to play a lot more games, its a horrible pick. Its a pick that screams "I'm smarter than everybody else", great when it works out, its a red flag when it doesn’t. 

It feels very Tannenbaumish. 

[AFJF]

12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

How many holes has he actually filled in two drafts?

Are you asking me to declare players as being good or bad picks after 6 NFL games?

 

 

[AFJF]

52 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

I mean if the players he select go on to have successful careers and never miss a game, would everyone praise the GM for making the correct selections?

 

Yes 

 

so imo it goes both ways 

 

The GM has to eat the blame for the negative  

I've been a fan for almost 35 years.  Not one time have I heard a GM praised for picking guys b for staying healthy.  You get praise for picking guys who are good football players.  

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, freestater said:

Re: Becton, his weight puts him in an intrinsically susceptible to injury due to the strain on his body at his size. To believe that it wouldn't hold him back in the pros is to bet against the vast majority. With a proven stalwart choice as an option at that same pick, who has gone on to play a lot more games, its a horrible pick. Its a pick that screams "I'm smarter than everybody else", great when it works out, its a red flag when it doesn’t. 

How many injuries has he suffered that come down to his weight?  Last I recall he had a shoulder injury while blocking a defender that was made worse when his idiot head coach put him back on the field ten minutes later, and this year a 300 lb human rolled up on the back of his leg.

I don't recall any other injuries.

[Larz]

40 minutes ago, AFJF said:

So how many of the 48 or so holes on the roster he inherited should have been filled in two drafts?

That seems like a different topic

[Dcat]

45 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Funny how John Idzik drafted a rookie of the month prospective #1 CB and was flayed for picking him.

 

The difference is Milliner had like three surgeries prior to becoming a pro.  The writing was on the wall with him.  Did Becton come with an injury history?  If so was it as awful as Milliner's?  

[AFJF]

10 minutes ago, Larz said:

That seems like a different topic

It is, but I was responding to a post in the thread that brought up that different topic.

[CSNY]

Come on now   Blaming a GM for drafting a player that has gotten injured who had no previous injury history  is pretty sad. What’s next blaming JD and Saleh for hiring Coach Knapp who had no prior history of tragic and fatal accidents May he Rest In Peace 

[freestater]

29 minutes ago, AFJF said:

How many injuries has he suffered that come down to his weight?  Last I recall he had a shoulder injury while blocking a defender that was made worse when his idiot head coach put him back on the field ten minutes later, and this year a 300 lb human rolled up on the back of his leg.

I don't recall any other injuries.

That's fair, but its also fair to query; how many games has Wirfs missed?

[Beerfish]

21 minutes ago, Dcat said:

The difference is Milliner had like three surgeries prior to becoming a pro.  The writing was on the wall with him.  Did Becton come with an injury history?  If so was it as awful as Milliner's?  

It does not matter at all.   You make good picks or not.

Almost every college guy has some kind of injury at some point in time.

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, freestater said:

That's fair, but its also fair to query; how many games has Wirfs missed?

None, but this doesn't mean it was easier to predict which guy would or would not have a teammate roll up on them.

[Barry McCockinner]

Unless it's a situation where the player has a history of injuries prior to being selected then no. It's one of the most stupid narratives going.

[AFJF]

Just now, Beerfish said:

It does not matter at all.   You make good picks or not.

Almost every college guy has some kind of injury at some point in time.

Right, some guys roll an ankle and miss two weeks without another injury the rest of the way and some guys have multiple injuries and miss entire seasons.

[Dcat]

Just now, Beerfish said:

It does not matter at all.   You make good picks or not.

Almost every college guy has some kind of injury at some point in time.

Milliner was unique with his three surgeries IIRC.  Idzik desperate to replace Revis totally disregarded it. There's not much out there that's comparably bad.

[Hex]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Ravens have more players on IR

the GMs job is to have depth 

The Bengals just destroyed the ravens

[Beerfish]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

Unless it's a situation where the player has a history then no. It's one of the most stupid narratives going.

So if the jets get 3 wins each of the next 3 years because guys are hurt then we still have a great gm?

It doesn't matter who's fault it is or what kind of bad luck you have if you get results you and your team is a success, if you do not you are out on your ear.

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Unless it's a situation where the player has a history of injuries prior to being selected then no. It's one of the most stupid narratives going.

Exactly.  It's nothing like the Millner ridiculous pick.  And I hate how everyone has already written Becton off.  I sure haven't.