Poll: This Coming Draft (April 2022)

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, undertow said:

Well if we got the coach that was advertised you should be able to build a solid defense in free agency and later in the draft and go offense....but I guess we need to fill every position on defense with all pros to run this system...it almost seems like this team has more holes then last draft and we are going backwards.

This whole coaching staff is in over its heads. Too many rookie coaches who are trying to coach too many rookies. It's arrogant.

Saleh clearly wasn't ready. I don't know whether it's arrogance, a desire to promote his friends, that he doesn't know anyone other than his friends, or probably a mix of all of that. But all these rookie coaches trying to coach all these rookie players is like the blind leading the blind, and that's why they have no answers.

e.g. DL coach Whitecotton was an assistant DLC with SF, and he looks like the most over-promoted of the bunch. This DL isn't the most talent-bereft group; the problem is everyone's worse this year, and in terms of age they should all be in their primes.

• Fatukasi was a dominant run stopper; now he's just ok.
• JFM was becoming a good edge rusher; now he barely hurries the QB, aside from the Tennessee game.
• Quinnen Williams was developing into a DT with no weaknesses like he was supposed to be; now they run over him like he just got activated from the practice squad.
• Shaq Lawson never lived up to his draft slot, but aside from a few plays (before the games were out of reach), he's useless. 
• Rankins may have been a bust for a #12 pick before he got here, but he's having his worst season. How a man this big is this much of a liability against the run is beyond comprehension.

From the HC on down to the coordinators & position coaches, 7 of the 12 are outright first time NFL coaches in that capacity, and Ulbrich counts as experienced only nominally, seeing how it was only for a partial season (meaning he wasn't installing his own offense) and the DC-turned-HC was still right there if/when he was stumped. 

So basically 4 of the 12 (non-assistant) coaches - OL, S, CB, TE - had multiple years of experience in their current job title, and 7 had none. It shows. 

 

[Rolloffjet]

I Think te should be gotten in fa.Lots of good te will be available. Don’t need to use a high pick on te. There no pitts coming out.

[Peace Frog]

Is there any way we can a Freiermuth or Hockenson or Henry or Hurst or Waller?

[derp]

The Jets have a TON of needs heading into the next draft. A lot of them are a year down the line but they’ll likely be addressed pretty early as that’s how Douglas drafts.

The team is bad so it’s pretty easy to make an argument for focusing on offense or focusing on defense. I personally am tired of bad offense, that’s not a good reason to focus on the offense. I also think I the current NFL if you’ve got a good offense you can stay in games and if you get leads you just need a pass rush. Do think this defense suffers from being on the field so much - but it’s still not good.

Draft wise, they just need to draft to the strength of the class. There’s no first round tight end so they don’t draft one, but there are plenty of round 2-4 guys and they should draft at least one. They’ve got Lawson and JFM on the edge but the edge class looks good and it’s a key position they should draft at least one, maybe two. The wide receiver class lions like it goes off a cliff around the mid second round so if the want to add one they should probably probably do it by the Carolina pick.

[Irish Jet]

Interior lineman is obviously a priority. McGovern and GVR are just not good enough. I think we can get by with what we have at tackle but if it's the BAP by a lot then by all means draft one. Becton isn't to be relied on.

We need to bring in tight ends - Especially given that LaFleur insists on playing two TE sets. Get one in the draft and another in FA. Invest enough in them so they're not the guaranteed JAGS we have at the minute. Dallas Goedert, Dalton Schultz or Mike Gesicki may be available in the summer so if we could get one of them we could wait until later on in the draft to get another. 

I think linebackers are going to be a big priority for Saleh - The front 7 is where he wants to build his team and we've probably too much invested on the DL as it is. Shame that wasn't the case this year as you had Parsons, Collins, and Owusu-Koramoah who look like elite players already. No doubt we'll find another Darron Lee if we do go down that road. There's gonna be a lot put into fixing the run defence but I don't see how you can justify drafting another DT, which is normally the go to move for teams struggling like ours. 

Safety is one to look out for. I've predicted that Hamilton may be one of the early picks for a while and I could definitely see it. He's great but still - do not want. Just not a value position, as we've learned. 

I actually wouldn't prioritise WR or RB. I think we're alright there and Moore is only getting better. Like with tackle though if there's an obvious BAP at WR then yeah go ahead. It's a position where you can't have too many good players. The problem is Davis is being paid like a #1 and has decent production despite the QB situation. I doubt they'll be looking to invest too much there. Running backs are worthless and a Carter/Johnson duo is more than good enough.

Like @#27TheDominator has been pointing out, all the evidence suggests these guys back themselves to coach up their CB's. They'll draft guys with good physical tools but I don't think they'll invest heavily in them.

 

[Irish Jet]

On 11/15/2021 at 8:21 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

This whole coaching staff is in over its heads. Too many rookie coaches who are trying to coach too many rookies. It's arrogant.

Saleh clearly wasn't ready. I don't know whether it's arrogance, a desire to promote his friends, that he doesn't know anyone other than his friends, or probably a mix of all of that. But all these rookie coaches trying to coach all these rookie players is like the blind leading the blind, and that's why they have no answers.

e.g. DL coach Whitecotton was an assistant DLC with SF, and he looks like the most over-promoted of the bunch. This DL isn't the most talent-bereft group; the problem is everyone's worse this year, and in terms of age they should all be in their primes.

• Fatukasi was a dominant run stopper; now he's just ok.
• JFM was becoming a good edge rusher; now he barely hurries the QB, aside from the Tennessee game.
• Quinnen Williams was developing into a DT with no weaknesses like he was supposed to be; now they run over him like he just got activated from the practice squad.
• Shaq Lawson never lived up to his draft slot, but aside from a few plays (before the games were out of reach), he's useless. 
• Rankins may have been a bust for a #12 pick before he got here, but he's having his worst season. How a man this big is this much of a liability against the run is beyond comprehension.

From the HC on down to the coordinators & position coaches, 7 of the 12 are outright first time NFL coaches in that capacity, and Ulbrich counts as experienced only nominally, seeing how it was only for a partial season (meaning he wasn't installing his own offense) and the DC-turned-HC was still right there if/when he was stumped. 

So basically 4 of the 12 (non-assistant) coaches - OL, S, CB, TE - had multiple years of experience in their current job title, and 7 had none. It shows. 

 

Yup. Great post.

This shouldn't have been allowed to happen. I know I'm beating a dead horse with this but Douglas should have ensured there was more experience involved. You just can't have everyone learning on the job, especially with such a young roster. 

My feeling coming into the off-season last year was to invest everything in the offence and let our defensive minded coach overachieve on that side of the ball. He's somehow managed to perform worse than anyone could have imagined. I thought at worst it would be a middle of the pack unit as it was under Gregg, instead they've been pushed around like children. We've seen these players play at a much higher level than this so it's a shocking indictment of Saleh to see them play so poorly so often. He should have that question posed to him more - Why the hell has it regressed to this level?

[#27TheDominator]

I don't think the issue with the run D is players, I think it is scheme.  I also think they know that.  Maybe they want better LBs to flow to the ball, but this isn't the kind of D where they are going to look to the IDL to fix the issue.  I think they are just spreading them too wide to expect real success.  I think the failures behind them cause the disaster we are seeing.

[Chrebetfan80]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:19 PM, Paradis said:

playmakers

Speed in general, at every level of both offense and defense.  I actually feel decent about the RB position, but WR and TE are needs on the offensive skill side, and C, Rg, RT needs at least 2 bodies for the three spots.  

Defense needs an Edge, and then LB and C.  I can live with the corners or sign a FA there but you have to have safeties that can communicate in coverage and come up and fill the alley in the run game. 

The board has become an absolute mess of everyone claiming everyone sucks when no one actually looks at the film and is objectively judging what they see.  Injuries and lack of speed are absolutely killing this team, especially on defense. 

Lets have a good discussion here based on football

Lets start with offense:  The lack of speed on the outside (Moore aside because he plays the fastest of the players on offense). No one challenges the defense deep which means the safeties can play closer to the line of scrimmage.  What does this do?  Well 1. it makes zones tighter in the short to intermediate passing game (a game which this offense uses a lot) and 2. it allows the defense to have + defenders on both sides in the run game.   

~ for those that do not understand what I mean, when you are scheming run plays, you need to look at play direction and the defense. You essentially draw a line from the center and count defenders on either side.  If the offense is + players or at 0 then the play has a reasonable chance to succeed (dependent on winning 1 on 1 matchups and blocking correctly).  If the Defense is + defenders, you have guys not accounted for and therefore are at a disadvantage~

With a lack of speed on the outside of the offense teams can play single high coverage more often, and two high closer to the LOS which creates issues in the run game, and short pass game.  Drafting outside playmakers and TE's with speed forces the defense to play off opening up the intermediate and short passing game (look at what the Cheifs do with Hill and how it opens up the field for kelce). 

Lets look at the Defense:

While the defensive line is clearly the most talented part of the team, heavy rotation has hurt the team upfront greatly.  If you want to criticize Ulbrich and Saleh for one thing, it is sticking to their beliefs on rotational play.  Anyone saying you need to change your scheme doesn't understand how football works. You can change certain things in season, but you cant just fully abandon a scheme or principles you've been installing all year. its insanely difficult to get something completely new in even with an offseason let alone mid year in a week.  So lets criticize these guys for the right things, and the thing im most critical of is rotational play on the D line.  While I agree in their thought process that players playing less snaps allows them to play at a higher effort level for the entire game, the issue is when you do not have depth there are plays where inferior players will be playing.  The strength of the jets DL depth is inside not on the edges.  This is where the issue has been.  Outside of when JFM has been on the edge, out DEs have been getting beat badly. A few things ive noticed from rotational edge players 1. getting to far upfield on run plays creating large holes in the C/D gap 2. failure to set the edge and fight over downblocks TE's and Wings.  3. No bend in the passing game. 

Improve your speed, discipline, and strength on the edges and this defense is able to play the run a lot better.  What happens when DE's fail to set the edge or fly upfield? 1. Lbs have to scrape laterally instead of laterally downhill meaning that instead of making contact at or behind the line of scrimmage, they are making first contact at the sideline at almost 4 yards downfield. 2. Guards and tackles are able to get up backers easily opening bigger lanes.  

LBs:  Outside of Mosley, no one on this team can play linebacker. Davis must be still working back because outside of the first game he returned, he's looked painfully slow. Mosleys football savvy and ability to read the play quickly makes up for his speed, he's generally in the right place, but because the DE's have done a poor job, he's had to play at a pace thats above where he should be forcing him to be a little out of control when at the point of attack.  If you are not under control, making plays becomes difficult. This team needs to pair Mosley with Lb's with SPEED.  This defense relies on LB's being able to scrape laterally downhill quickly and fill lanes with speed and power.  It also relies on them being able to play sideline to sideline something we do not have the speed to do currently.  

The corners have been a surprising bright spot for the most part, but the safety play is abysmal and a huge issue in the run and pass game.  Davis is a step slow diagnosing anything, I do think he's gotten better the more he's played so there is still hope there, but realistically he should be a nickle safety this year.  People forget the starting safeties were supposed to be Joyner and Maye, both guys who are equally adept at pass coverage as well as run support.  RUN SUPPORT which is a huge portion of the safeties job in this defense.  Safeties are the alley players, they have to fill the alleys on run plays.  Unfortunately 2 things are happening, first is there is no force by the DE currently and the Corners are not helping either, so there is no alley.  Second our safeties are just not good enough to get the job done. 

 

long winded post, but i think its important to understand the deficiencies in the personnel we have on this team in detail so that we can accurately identify players that make sense for this team to draft.  They need an all around safety (one who can play both run and pass), they need SPEED at the LB and WR position, and they need a BIG target at TE (preferably one with decent speed as well), they also need one more Big addition to the EDGE, someone that allows a better rotation of ends and can help kcik JFM inside on passing downs for more speed. This combined with some improvement on the OL and this team will be in a better spot that currently constituted. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think the issue with the run D is players, I think it is scheme.  I also think they know that.  Maybe they want better LBs to flow to the ball, but this isn't the kind of D where they are going to look to the IDL to fix the issue.  I think they are just spreading them too wide to expect real success.  I think the failures behind them cause the disaster we are seeing.

Yeah I don't necessarily disagree, but RBs don't seem to be having many issues turning the corner either. If the problems were exclusively up the gut (where they also exist) then maybe.

At the same time, on a number of those corner-turning runs, a LB or S moving up into that space closer to the LOS is more or less there and just takes a crap angle or gets flat-out juked, and with just him to beat before reaching the secondary (or until Mosley can finally work his way over to that side) then would-be stuffs/losses have turned into 8-10 yard gains, and looking pretty effortless in the process. That's certainly not an issue of spreading the DL too wide.

[win4ever]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Speed in general, at every level of both offense and defense.  I actually feel decent about the RB position, but WR and TE are needs on the offensive skill side, and C, Rg, RT needs at least 2 bodies for the three spots.  

Defense needs an Edge, and then LB and C.  I can live with the corners or sign a FA there but you have to have safeties that can communicate in coverage and come up and fill the alley in the run game. 

The board has become an absolute mess of everyone claiming everyone sucks when no one actually looks at the film and is objectively judging what they see.  Injuries and lack of speed are absolutely killing this team, especially on defense. 

Lets have a good discussion here based on football

Lets start with offense:  The lack of speed on the outside (Moore aside because he plays the fastest of the players on offense). No one challenges the defense deep which means the safeties can play closer to the line of scrimmage.  What does this do?  Well 1. it makes zones tighter in the short to intermediate passing game (a game which this offense uses a lot) and 2. it allows the defense to have + defenders on both sides in the run game.   

~ for those that do not understand what I mean, when you are scheming run plays, you need to look at play direction and the defense. You essentially draw a line from the center and count defenders on either side.  If the offense is + players or at 0 then the play has a reasonable chance to succeed (dependent on winning 1 on 1 matchups and blocking correctly).  If the Defense is + defenders, you have guys not accounted for and therefore are at a disadvantage~

With a lack of speed on the outside of the offense teams can play single high coverage more often, and two high closer to the LOS which creates issues in the run game, and short pass game.  Drafting outside playmakers and TE's with speed forces the defense to play off opening up the intermediate and short passing game (look at what the Cheifs do with Hill and how it opens up the field for kelce). 

Lets look at the Defense:

While the defensive line is clearly the most talented part of the team, heavy rotation has hurt the team upfront greatly.  If you want to criticize Ulbrich and Saleh for one thing, it is sticking to their beliefs on rotational play.  Anyone saying you need to change your scheme doesn't understand how football works. You can change certain things in season, but you cant just fully abandon a scheme or principles you've been installing all year. its insanely difficult to get something completely new in even with an offseason let alone mid year in a week.  So lets criticize these guys for the right things, and the thing im most critical of is rotational play on the D line.  While I agree in their thought process that players playing less snaps allows them to play at a higher effort level for the entire game, the issue is when you do not have depth there are plays where inferior players will be playing.  The strength of the jets DL depth is inside not on the edges.  This is where the issue has been.  Outside of when JFM has been on the edge, out DEs have been getting beat badly. A few things ive noticed from rotational edge players 1. getting to far upfield on run plays creating large holes in the C/D gap 2. failure to set the edge and fight over downblocks TE's and Wings.  3. No bend in the passing game. 

Improve your speed, discipline, and strength on the edges and this defense is able to play the run a lot better.  What happens when DE's fail to set the edge or fly upfield? 1. Lbs have to scrape laterally instead of laterally downhill meaning that instead of making contact at or behind the line of scrimmage, they are making first contact at the sideline at almost 4 yards downfield. 2. Guards and tackles are able to get up backers easily opening bigger lanes.  

LBs:  Outside of Mosley, no one on this team can play linebacker. Davis must be still working back because outside of the first game he returned, he's looked painfully slow. Mosleys football savvy and ability to read the play quickly makes up for his speed, he's generally in the right place, but because the DE's have done a poor job, he's had to play at a pace thats above where he should be forcing him to be a little out of control when at the point of attack.  If you are not under control, making plays becomes difficult. This team needs to pair Mosley with Lb's with SPEED.  This defense relies on LB's being able to scrape laterally downhill quickly and fill lanes with speed and power.  It also relies on them being able to play sideline to sideline something we do not have the speed to do currently.  

The corners have been a surprising bright spot for the most part, but the safety play is abysmal and a huge issue in the run and pass game.  Davis is a step slow diagnosing anything, I do think he's gotten better the more he's played so there is still hope there, but realistically he should be a nickle safety this year.  People forget the starting safeties were supposed to be Joyner and Maye, both guys who are equally adept at pass coverage as well as run support.  RUN SUPPORT which is a huge portion of the safeties job in this defense.  Safeties are the alley players, they have to fill the alleys on run plays.  Unfortunately 2 things are happening, first is there is no force by the DE currently and the Corners are not helping either, so there is no alley.  Second our safeties are just not good enough to get the job done. 

 

long winded post, but i think its important to understand the deficiencies in the personnel we have on this team in detail so that we can accurately identify players that make sense for this team to draft.  They need an all around safety (one who can play both run and pass), they need SPEED at the LB and WR position, and they need a BIG target at TE (preferably one with decent speed as well), they also need one more Big addition to the EDGE, someone that allows a better rotation of ends and can help kcik JFM inside on passing downs for more speed. This combined with some improvement on the OL and this team will be in a better spot that currently constituted. 

On Defense:

I think the main issue is this defense functions on elite LB crews, because that's their run stopping strategy.  They have linebackers run to the line of scrimmage, but they need to recognize pass/rush while doing so.  We just don't have that, because we have too many guys caught in-between that can't recognize anything, or do anything once they realize what is happening.  They need speed at the LB position, guys that can recognize a play and beat the offensive player to a spot, which is why we seemed to go for a lot of safety conversions.  Unfortunately, we just seem to get hurt a lot.  

On Offense:

I completely agree, the lack of speed is hindering the offense beyond Moore.  You can't have Davis as the No. 1 because he's a one on one match up as far as the defense is concerned.  You put your No. 2 CB on him and give up some catches, but shut down everything else.  This team not only needs speed, they need an alpha WR.  Davis did his best work when AJ Brown was the alpha dog and defenses had to focus on him.  

I'd love to go after Godwin/Sutton next year, presuming Adams gets tagged.  We need an alpha receiver.  Need someone that can actually me a match up issue to the point they have to dedicate multiple defenders.  I was really hoping Mims would help out this year, but he looks completely checked out.  

I have a feeling we'll overpay for Gesecki instead of WR because of Davis.  

The second aspect of the offense is misdirection, which means a lot of similar looking plays that go completely different.  The problem now is that teams don't care where Ryan Griffin/Kroft/Loser TE goes because they literally seem to trip over themselves.  

Off-season wise, I would like draft investments in OL (at least 2 of the first 4 picks) and then add an alpha WR.  I don't think the WR class is as deep as it was the last two years, so I would rather try for late round gems.

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, win4ever said:

On Defense:

I think the main issue is this defense functions on elite LB crews, because that's their run stopping strategy.  They have linebackers run to the line of scrimmage, but they need to recognize pass/rush while doing so.  We just don't have that, because we have too many guys caught in-between that can't recognize anything, or do anything once they realize what is happening.  They need speed at the LB position, guys that can recognize a play and beat the offensive player to a spot, which is why we seemed to go for a lot of safety conversions.  Unfortunately, we just seem to get hurt a lot.  

On Offense:

I completely agree, the lack of speed is hindering the offense beyond Moore.  You can't have Davis as the No. 1 because he's a one on one match up as far as the defense is concerned.  You put your No. 2 CB on him and give up some catches, but shut down everything else.  This team not only needs speed, they need an alpha WR.  Davis did his best work when AJ Brown was the alpha dog and defenses had to focus on him.  

I'd love to go after Godwin/Sutton next year, presuming Adams gets tagged.  We need an alpha receiver.  Need someone that can actually me a match up issue to the point they have to dedicate multiple defenders.  I was really hoping Mims would help out this year, but he looks completely checked out.  

I have a feeling we'll overpay for Gesecki instead of WR because of Davis.  

The second aspect of the offense is misdirection, which means a lot of similar looking plays that go completely different.  The problem now is that teams don't care where Ryan Griffin/Kroft/Loser TE goes because they literally seem to trip over themselves.  

Off-season wise, I would like draft investments in OL (at least 2 of the first 4 picks) and then add an alpha WR.  I don't think the WR class is as deep as it was the last two years, so I would rather try for late round gems.

The lack of talent at the LB position is glaring.. Had sherwood and Davis not gotten hurt I think we would be in a much better place than we are currently.  Davis is just working back, and sherwood was actually playing well before getting hurt.  Quincy williams was playing well early, came down to earth a little bit but his speed certainly helps quite a bit.  He's been banged up with a concussion though. Regardless, LB has to be a point of emphasis in the offseason, and either a FA has to come in or they need to address it in the first 3 rounds of the draft. 

Davis is a clear number 2.  He works the middle of the field well and despite his drop issues i think he can be a good player for this team, the problem is you need more of an over the top presence like we've said.   I actually really like Sutton, he's not the fastest guy but he gets down the field and can go up for a ball aggressively.  He's averaged at least 14 yards per reception in his career which is pretty good. I would overpay for Gesecki in a heart beat.  The guy is coming into his own in a big way this year, and he's a real receiving threat at the position combined with a good blocker.  It wouldnt stop me from drafting a player still, but I definitely would love to add him to this offense. 

I agree with investing in the offensive line, but they have been playing better as of late. I would invest 1 pick early on (top 4 picks) on OL, then another tackle or guard later in the draft.  There are too many premium needs on this team to invest 2 of the first 4 picks on the OL in my opinion.  Drafting Linderbaum for instance solves two issues at once.  Moves McGovern to RG most likely and upgrades C as well.  Resigning Fant to play RT and then drafting another Tackle later on to compete makes sense as you can see this year where there were many Tackles taken later in the draft playing this year.  This frees the jets up to add premium additions possibly to Edge, WR, S, TE or LB where they need big time talent upgrades. 

 

 

[Paradis]

9 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Speed in general, at every level of both offense and defense.  I actually feel decent about the RB position, but WR and TE are needs on the offensive skill side, and C, Rg, RT needs at least 2 bodies for the three spots.  

Defense needs an Edge, and then LB and C.  I can live with the corners or sign a FA there but you have to have safeties that can communicate in coverage and come up and fill the alley in the run game. 

The board has become an absolute mess of everyone claiming everyone sucks when no one actually looks at the film and is objectively judging what they see.  Injuries and lack of speed are absolutely killing this team, especially on defense. 

Lets have a good discussion here based on football

Lets start with offense:  The lack of speed on the outside (Moore aside because he plays the fastest of the players on offense). No one challenges the defense deep which means the safeties can play closer to the line of scrimmage.  What does this do?  Well 1. it makes zones tighter in the short to intermediate passing game (a game which this offense uses a lot) and 2. it allows the defense to have + defenders on both sides in the run game.   

~ for those that do not understand what I mean, when you are scheming run plays, you need to look at play direction and the defense. You essentially draw a line from the center and count defenders on either side.  If the offense is + players or at 0 then the play has a reasonable chance to succeed (dependent on winning 1 on 1 matchups and blocking correctly).  If the Defense is + defenders, you have guys not accounted for and therefore are at a disadvantage~

With a lack of speed on the outside of the offense teams can play single high coverage more often, and two high closer to the LOS which creates issues in the run game, and short pass game.  Drafting outside playmakers and TE's with speed forces the defense to play off opening up the intermediate and short passing game (look at what the Cheifs do with Hill and how it opens up the field for kelce). 

Lets look at the Defense:

While the defensive line is clearly the most talented part of the team, heavy rotation has hurt the team upfront greatly.  If you want to criticize Ulbrich and Saleh for one thing, it is sticking to their beliefs on rotational play.  Anyone saying you need to change your scheme doesn't understand how football works. You can change certain things in season, but you cant just fully abandon a scheme or principles you've been installing all year. its insanely difficult to get something completely new in even with an offseason let alone mid year in a week.  So lets criticize these guys for the right things, and the thing im most critical of is rotational play on the D line.  While I agree in their thought process that players playing less snaps allows them to play at a higher effort level for the entire game, the issue is when you do not have depth there are plays where inferior players will be playing.  The strength of the jets DL depth is inside not on the edges.  This is where the issue has been.  Outside of when JFM has been on the edge, out DEs have been getting beat badly. A few things ive noticed from rotational edge players 1. getting to far upfield on run plays creating large holes in the C/D gap 2. failure to set the edge and fight over downblocks TE's and Wings.  3. No bend in the passing game. 

Improve your speed, discipline, and strength on the edges and this defense is able to play the run a lot better.  What happens when DE's fail to set the edge or fly upfield? 1. Lbs have to scrape laterally instead of laterally downhill meaning that instead of making contact at or behind the line of scrimmage, they are making first contact at the sideline at almost 4 yards downfield. 2. Guards and tackles are able to get up backers easily opening bigger lanes.  

LBs:  Outside of Mosley, no one on this team can play linebacker. Davis must be still working back because outside of the first game he returned, he's looked painfully slow. Mosleys football savvy and ability to read the play quickly makes up for his speed, he's generally in the right place, but because the DE's have done a poor job, he's had to play at a pace thats above where he should be forcing him to be a little out of control when at the point of attack.  If you are not under control, making plays becomes difficult. This team needs to pair Mosley with Lb's with SPEED.  This defense relies on LB's being able to scrape laterally downhill quickly and fill lanes with speed and power.  It also relies on them being able to play sideline to sideline something we do not have the speed to do currently.  

The corners have been a surprising bright spot for the most part, but the safety play is abysmal and a huge issue in the run and pass game.  Davis is a step slow diagnosing anything, I do think he's gotten better the more he's played so there is still hope there, but realistically he should be a nickle safety this year.  People forget the starting safeties were supposed to be Joyner and Maye, both guys who are equally adept at pass coverage as well as run support.  RUN SUPPORT which is a huge portion of the safeties job in this defense.  Safeties are the alley players, they have to fill the alleys on run plays.  Unfortunately 2 things are happening, first is there is no force by the DE currently and the Corners are not helping either, so there is no alley.  Second our safeties are just not good enough to get the job done. 

 

long winded post, but i think its important to understand the deficiencies in the personnel we have on this team in detail so that we can accurately identify players that make sense for this team to draft.  They need an all around safety (one who can play both run and pass), they need SPEED at the LB and WR position, and they need a BIG target at TE (preferably one with decent speed as well), they also need one more Big addition to the EDGE, someone that allows a better rotation of ends and can help kcik JFM inside on passing downs for more speed. This combined with some improvement on the OL and this team will be in a better spot that currently constituted. 

Good read. Insightful on an Xs and Os level and you're right, most people don't have the appetite to discuss the problems, just want to complain about the symptoms. I think i was like the only one who has optimistic about our secondary in May... QB play has been mostly bad this year. Inexperienced and short sighted... that's really exacerbated most of our inefficienies. 

I think it's a good point about "can't just change a scheme" in week 10, although you can run some simple base stuff to amend the bleed at times. Speed is a problem though. You're right. Nothing consistent outside on D upfront.

I am over all disappointed in Saleh. For someone that has been around the game and was more or less gradually groomed upwards, he demonstrated a stunning level of naivety that he thought a roster of rookie staffers/friends was the way to resurrect this pheonix with a rookie QB and a depleted roster. That lapse in judgment can be seen weekly on sundays but also in ignorant overstepping of "scheme to your CURRENT talent"... Rome wasn't built in a day. That's where i sit. It's too late now, but he's made this whole thing 5x more difficult for himself. 

[Chrebetfan80]

11 hours ago, Paradis said:

Good read. Insightful on an Xs and Os level and you're right, most people don't have the appetite to discuss the problems, just want to complain about the symptoms. I think i was like the only one who has optimistic about our secondary in May... QB play has been mostly bad this year. Inexperienced and short sighted... that's really exacerbated most of our inefficienies. 

I think it's a good point about "can't just change a scheme" in week 10, although you can run some simple base stuff to amend the bleed at times. Speed is a problem though. You're right. Nothing consistent outside on D upfront.

I am over all disappointed in Saleh. For someone that has been around the game and was more or less gradually groomed upwards, he demonstrated a stunning level of naivety that he thought a roster of rookie staffers/friends was the way to resurrect this pheonix with a rookie QB and a depleted roster. That lapse in judgment can be seen weekly on sundays but also in ignorant overstepping of "scheme to your CURRENT talent"... Rome wasn't built in a day. That's where i sit. It's too late now, but he's made this whole thing 5x more difficult for himself. 

You make a good point on saleh, I dont think it was a big miss on the coordinators currently, I think where the issue was in staff building was not having enough guys at position coaching aspects with a ton of experience. Benton has the most experience on staff with 18 years of coaching experience, which is why I believe the OL has started to play better, a lot of credit goes to him for getting those guys to figure it out.  But aside from him, the rest of the team is really litered with guys with around 6 years experience max.  Having some guys with more experience, especially defensively would have helped a lot of these younger players transition faster I believe.  

We saw it with offense, I think this offense would have been a lot better early on had we not tragically lost Knapp, ive been very vocal about that.  If you have never called offense at any level or coached a young team, there are inherent struggles that are going to happen, however doing it with someone that has that kind of experience makes a MASSIVE difference. Alot of the success I have now in my career i attribute to starting my coaching career with guys with 30+ years of experience and learning from them and having them there to lean on for advice.  

Defensively, I think with the position coaches being young, you find it hard to find guys that have the wealth of experience teaching things differently so if some players are not getting the technique down correctly, you may have to teach it differently, a lot of young coaches do not know how to do that as effectively as older guys with more experience.  So i think thats part of the issue, the other part is we are just soooooooo deficient of talent Defensively that its almost impossible to be successful consistently.  Think about the injuries sustained on this defensive. Davis was a starter, just coming back now, Lawson gone, Maye gone, Joyner gone, Huff hopefully coming back, Sherwood gone.  Now you can argue about how big a difference some of those guys would have made, but when you look at the absolute dregs we're replacing them with you start to understand how bad it is.  I mean the jets legit signed a guy named Rachad WILDGOOSE to play corner, you know its bad when youre signing guys named WILDGOOSE. 

Its a process, Saleh is going to have to fall on the sword big time this year because they all took a calculated risk, they went with a young team full of little experience in hopes that they'd get better and then take a jump next year. So far some guys are getting better and it shows, but many are hurt. 

[Chrebetfan80]

also the team has given some optimism of things to come once the talent level is built up. 

 

MC2 has played really well, looks like a keeper.

Hall having a very good year

MC1 looks really good (and the combo of him and TY is pretty good)

AVT looks like a stud

Moore showing out now

Theres good things happening, its just hard to focus on when everything has been garbage.  Probably just the coach in me, but i tend to not harp on the result in situations like this.  I knew this team would struggle mightily, i had hoped we'd see more of an upswing by this point of the year and not just the absolute uncompetitive football we have seen, but i understand a lot fo the reasons why its happening.  

[Chrebetfan80]

on a roll but lets just rehash a point on the DL and struggles to set the edge.  

 

Start of the year there was going to be a DE rotation of  JFM, Lawson, Huff, Curry and one of Phillips, Rasheed, Zuniga, Blair or Dwumfor.

Going into buffalo you had Shaq Lawson (the lesser lawson) JFM and Blair, and Ward. 

Thats a massive drop off.   Lawson and Curry gone for the year, Huff still on IR, Phillips i dont even know, the other guys who knows. 

This is the stuff that you dont want to use as an excuse but it makes you understand how we went from a strength to a deficiency in talent so very quickly and why run support has struggled mightily. 

Another edge in the draft is an absolute must have. 

[win4ever]

On 11/16/2021 at 1:52 PM, Chrebetfan80 said:

The lack of talent at the LB position is glaring.. Had sherwood and Davis not gotten hurt I think we would be in a much better place than we are currently.  Davis is just working back, and sherwood was actually playing well before getting hurt.  Quincy williams was playing well early, came down to earth a little bit but his speed certainly helps quite a bit.  He's been banged up with a concussion though. Regardless, LB has to be a point of emphasis in the offseason, and either a FA has to come in or they need to address it in the first 3 rounds of the draft. 

Davis is a clear number 2.  He works the middle of the field well and despite his drop issues i think he can be a good player for this team, the problem is you need more of an over the top presence like we've said.   I actually really like Sutton, he's not the fastest guy but he gets down the field and can go up for a ball aggressively.  He's averaged at least 14 yards per reception in his career which is pretty good. I would overpay for Gesecki in a heart beat.  The guy is coming into his own in a big way this year, and he's a real receiving threat at the position combined with a good blocker.  It wouldnt stop me from drafting a player still, but I definitely would love to add him to this offense. 

I agree with investing in the offensive line, but they have been playing better as of late. I would invest 1 pick early on (top 4 picks) on OL, then another tackle or guard later in the draft.  There are too many premium needs on this team to invest 2 of the first 4 picks on the OL in my opinion.  Drafting Linderbaum for instance solves two issues at once.  Moves McGovern to RG most likely and upgrades C as well.  Resigning Fant to play RT and then drafting another Tackle later on to compete makes sense as you can see this year where there were many Tackles taken later in the draft playing this year.  This frees the jets up to add premium additions possibly to Edge, WR, S, TE or LB where they need big time talent upgrades. 

 

 

I'm not sure if we'll go all out for LB because we drafted so many guys that can fill in hybrid LB role, I get the feeling it's going to be one of those "get value cheaply or late in the draft positions" for us.  

I'd love to get Sutton, kinda reminds me of Vincent Jackson from years past.  He's not a full blown blazer, but he gets open down the field and is open even when he's covered.  He's the type of guy that can erase a lot of bad throws with his ability to adjust down the field.  I'd like Gesecki too, but I have a feeling he might be overpriced for us, especially if we splash on a WR like Sutton/Godwin.  I have a weird feeling we will be in on Evan Engram.  

I think the problem is, the staff might not be sold on Becton, especially after his weight issues this year.  I feel like they might go Neal/Linderbaum or some combination, while signing someone like Fant to be the insurance guy.  I think grabbing a C (either in draft or FA) is an absolute must.  

The main want for the offense has to be an alpha receiver, especially since Crowder will be gone.  We need a coverage eraser type WR to develop a young QB.  

[doitny]

15 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

on a roll but lets just rehash a point on the DL and struggles to set the edge.  

 

Start of the year there was going to be a DE rotation of  JFM, Lawson, Huff, Curry and one of Phillips, Rasheed, Zuniga, Blair or Dwumfor.

Going into buffalo you had Shaq Lawson (the lesser lawson) JFM and Blair, and Ward. 

Thats a massive drop off.   Lawson and Curry gone for the year, Huff still on IR, Phillips i dont even know, the other guys who knows. 

This is the stuff that you dont want to use as an excuse but it makes you understand how we went from a strength to a deficiency in talent so very quickly and why run support has struggled mightily. 

Another edge in the draft is an absolute must have. 

sounds like you know your stuff. so let me ask you this...

on the post game show Bart Scott and the boys were talking about the Diggs TD. Bart said we always play cover 0, which i believe is man to man right? they he said we never change anything and we should go to cover 2 sometimes.

so my question is, is this true? do we run cover 0 ALL GAME... 

and doesn't that put us at a great disadvantage that other teams know we will always be in that formation on defense?

i know i heard of teams switching from zone to man to man in game and week to week depending on there opponent. 

this is very disturbing if this is true and Saleh wont stubbornly change it up.

or is what im asking for changing the scheme which i seen you already say that cant be done mid season. 

[Chrebetfan80]

9 hours ago, win4ever said:

I'm not sure if we'll go all out for LB because we drafted so many guys that can fill in hybrid LB role, I get the feeling it's going to be one of those "get value cheaply or late in the draft positions" for us.  

I'd love to get Sutton, kinda reminds me of Vincent Jackson from years past.  He's not a full blown blazer, but he gets open down the field and is open even when he's covered.  He's the type of guy that can erase a lot of bad throws with his ability to adjust down the field.  I'd like Gesecki too, but I have a feeling he might be overpriced for us, especially if we splash on a WR like Sutton/Godwin.  I have a weird feeling we will be in on Evan Engram.  

I think the problem is, the staff might not be sold on Becton, especially after his weight issues this year.  I feel like they might go Neal/Linderbaum or some combination, while signing someone like Fant to be the insurance guy.  I think grabbing a C (either in draft or FA) is an absolute must.  

The main want for the offense has to be an alpha receiver, especially since Crowder will be gone.  We need a coverage eraser type WR to develop a young QB.  

The good news about sutton is he may come cheaper since he is not having a great year currently.  He seems healthy and should be better next year a full year removed from the knee surgery. 

The one reason I could see us going for Gesicki over a guy like Engram is the blocking potential.  Gesicki is a more all around TE who is now flashing a better route running receiving aspect to his game than in years past where he was always solid. Engram has athletic ability, and for cheap i wouldnt mind bringing him in, but he cant be the big TE move we make. 

Bectons weight gets so overblown in my opinion.  The guys huge, he's never not going to be huge, but people act like he's 400 lbs and cant stop shoveling food in his face.  He came into camp noticeably in better shape, injuries have certainly taken their toll on his conditioning, but I don think the weight is the reason the staff is not sold on him.  I think if anything its him being physically able to stay healthy. I think they believe he needs to be slimmer to stay healthy, but it looks like he's not as powerful a blocker when the weight is down, so it remains to be seen how that balances out.  If they take Neal over linderbaum its because of the insurance he represents for becton. 

[Chrebetfan80]

8 hours ago, doitny said:

sounds like you know your stuff. so let me ask you this...

on the post game show Bart Scott and the boys were talking about the Diggs TD. Bart said we always play cover 0, which i believe is man to man right? they he said we never change anything and we should go to cover 2 sometimes.

so my question is, is this true? do we run cover 0 ALL GAME... 

and doesn't that put us at a great disadvantage that other teams know we will always be in that formation on defense?

i know i heard of teams switching from zone to man to man in game and week to week depending on there opponent. 

this is very disturbing if this is true and Saleh wont stubbornly change it up.

or is what im asking for changing the scheme which i seen you already say that cant be done mid season. 

Good quesiton!

So there are a few reasons a defense may opt to play cover 0 (man to man defense with no deep zone defender), or Cover 1 (man to man with 1 deep zone defender): 

1.  If a team is blitz heavy, certain stunts (ones requiring bringing 6 or more defenders) usually require man to man coverage because there are not enough remaining defenders to adequately account for all of the defensive zones.  

2. This also bleeds into point one.  Formationally offenses try to put defenses at a disadvantage with numbers on the outside to open up the run game.  You see this in the college game a lot, where a team will spread the field in doubles or trips formations to get defenders out of the box.  In order to combat this, defenses sometimes have to go with man coverage in order to add defenders into the box to support the run (outside backers and safeties). 

We have HAD to play more man to man recently to add defenders to the box to help with run support due to lack of talent at DE and LB. 

At its core, this defense is a match coverage defense.  This means that the corners and safeties must pattern read the routes in order to switch off in coverage.  Theres a really great article about how Nick Saban created this defense in the 90s with Bellicheck (during their time with the browns) in order to add defenders to the box while playing cover 3.  

The issue the Browns were having at this time was that they were forced to play Cover 3 in order to keep an extra Safety in the box in order to help with run support.  However, in the NFL cover 3 is difficult because the weakness of this defense is in the seams, which NFL QBS can eat alive.  So Saban and Bill came up with a match coverage that essentially is cover 3 when it needs to be, cover 4 when it needs to be, but also looks like man.  It can be kind of confusing but when you see the principles its not too bad. 

https://matchquarters.com/2018/05/04/learning-how-to-spin-adapting-sabans-rip-liz/

 

This website does a really good job of breaking down the ins and outs of the Rip/Liz Match system that Saban runs, which is one of the base coverages Saleh learned while working with Carol in Seattle. 

In a long winded response, the answer is yes they have had to play a lot more man to help with defenders in the box, but ALSO they run a lot of Rip/Liz match which when watching the game appears to look a lot like man due to its pattern reading principles. 

The problem with this team right now is that every time they step on the field they are at a massive talent discrepancy with the opposing offense.  This forces you to not be able to run the things on defense you want to, and when you play a team as talented as the bills there is really not a lot you can do to stop everything.  Yea Diggs was 1 on 1 there on the TD, but look where the ball was, look at the split he took, you move a safety over now youre opening a completely other zone that would have been taken advantage of and that would be complained about.  Again its a big saying in football and I think Saleh has even said this in interviews.  Its not the X's and O's its the Jimmy's and Joe's.  We got no Jimmy's or Joes unfortunately. 

Hope this helps! 

 

 

 

[win4ever]

On 11/18/2021 at 9:35 AM, Chrebetfan80 said:

The good news about sutton is he may come cheaper since he is not having a great year currently.  He seems healthy and should be better next year a full year removed from the knee surgery. 

The one reason I could see us going for Gesicki over a guy like Engram is the blocking potential.  Gesicki is a more all around TE who is now flashing a better route running receiving aspect to his game than in years past where he was always solid. Engram has athletic ability, and for cheap i wouldnt mind bringing him in, but he cant be the big TE move we make. 

Bectons weight gets so overblown in my opinion.  The guys huge, he's never not going to be huge, but people act like he's 400 lbs and cant stop shoveling food in his face.  He came into camp noticeably in better shape, injuries have certainly taken their toll on his conditioning, but I don think the weight is the reason the staff is not sold on him.  I think if anything its him being physically able to stay healthy. I think they believe he needs to be slimmer to stay healthy, but it looks like he's not as powerful a blocker when the weight is down, so it remains to be seen how that balances out.  If they take Neal over linderbaum its because of the insurance he represents for becton. 

Yeah, although I'm not sure they let him go.  Sutton/Juedy/Hamler/Fant seems pretty set in stone, and a guy like Patrick as the WR4.  I have a feeling they resign him or franchise him since they should have more than enough cap space.  They'll probably extend Chubb, but other than that, I'm not sure they have too many guys to break the bank on.  Even if they acquire Rodgers, feel like they'll keep Sutton on some form of extension.  

I think Gesecki is a mile ahead of Engram, but feel like his market is going to explode.  I know he hasn't done well this year, but I wouldn't mind taking a rebound shot on Jonnu Smith if he breaks free from the Pats either.  

I don't think his knees are going to hold up at the current weight, unless he gets better conditioning.  Especially for an outside zone blocking scheme where he might have to move more, with reverses and WR screens.  It'll be interesting to see how he does when he eventually returns, so I guess it'll be evaluation for next year.  

The absolute must for me is a high end receiving option.  We can't keep going back to the "Hey, if a couple of things break right, he can be a bottom end No. 1" well, and still expect to help the QB.  

[Chrebetfan80]

1 minute ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, although I'm not sure they let him go.  Sutton/Juedy/Hamler/Fant seems pretty set in stone, and a guy like Patrick as the WR4.  I have a feeling they resign him or franchise him since they should have more than enough cap space.  They'll probably extend Chubb, but other than that, I'm not sure they have too many guys to break the bank on.  Even if they acquire Rodgers, feel like they'll keep Sutton on some form of extension.  

I think Gesecki is a mile ahead of Engram, but feel like his market is going to explode.  I know he hasn't done well this year, but I wouldn't mind taking a rebound shot on Jonnu Smith if he breaks free from the Pats either.  

I don't think his knees are going to hold up at the current weight, unless he gets better conditioning.  Especially for an outside zone blocking scheme where he might have to move more, with reverses and WR screens.  It'll be interesting to see how he does when he eventually returns, so I guess it'll be evaluation for next year.  

The absolute must for me is a high end receiving option.  We can't keep going back to the "Hey, if a couple of things break right, he can be a bottom end No. 1" well, and still expect to help the QB.  

Broncos have a decision to mkae really.  Because both Patrick and Sutton are FA i believe.  PAtrick has been the more reliable target and I think they are higher on him as a staff than on Sutton, by evidence of his target dip since jeudy came back.  Hamilton is also an FA with really good speed who flashed a little this year and may be worth a flier on. 

Franchise tagging will be interesting too because they have a number of good FA's so it'll be interesting to see where they go with it all.  But it bears watching for sure

 

Gesicki is a way better player for sure, he's one of my favorite FA adds this offseason personally. Jonnu could be a good get too if he gets let go 

High end receiving options are going to be limited in the draft due to the holes that the team has.  I think WR may be a second rd pick unless we trade down in the first to the late teens and can grab Wilson there.  

[derp]

7 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Broncos have a decision to mkae really.  Because both Patrick and Sutton are FA i believe.  PAtrick has been the more reliable target and I think they are higher on him as a staff than on Sutton, by evidence of his target dip since jeudy came back.  Hamilton is also an FA with really good speed who flashed a little this year and may be worth a flier on. 

Franchise tagging will be interesting too because they have a number of good FA's so it'll be interesting to see where they go with it all.  But it bears watching for sure

 

Gesicki is a way better player for sure, he's one of my favorite FA adds this offseason personally. Jonnu could be a good get too if he gets let go 

High end receiving options are going to be limited in the draft due to the holes that the team has.  I think WR may be a second rd pick unless we trade down in the first to the late teens and can grab Wilson there.  

High level question for you since you’ve got a good deal of WR knowledge. The Jets WR’s are largely kind of lean. Moore is obviously very talented and his height gets pointed out but he’s pretty slight, Crowder isn’t the bulkiest, Cole is lean. I know people are talking about height a bit in the WR group.

I’m a numbers dork and I know that WR weight is better correlated with NFL success than speed. Makes sense in a few different ways - easier to hold up physically, better to make contested plays in a league where windows are smaller.

Schematically we talk about the more explosive guys for the WR element in the run game - isn’t bulk important there too? I think about the guys SF has drafted - Samuel and Aiyuk aren’t the tallest but they’re pretty sturdy dudes. I could see that general build working as those guys can hold up but it’s easier to have wiggle than when you get to those 6’3+ dudes who have higher centers of gravity.

I realize it’s kind of simplistic but anything to what I’m thinking there or is it off? I could see it working with Moore and other good fits around him but it just doesn’t seem like they’ve got the guys to run what they want. That’s also clearly an issue with a bunch of other spots - tight end is a disaster and they really could use a fullback.

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

It would really be great if the Jets got to coach the Senior Bowl.  Not sure how they never seem to have that opportunity despite their crappy record over the past ten years.

[Chrebetfan80]

On 11/19/2021 at 1:40 PM, derp said:

High level question for you since you’ve got a good deal of WR knowledge. The Jets WR’s are largely kind of lean. Moore is obviously very talented and his height gets pointed out but he’s pretty slight, Crowder isn’t the bulkiest, Cole is lean. I know people are talking about height a bit in the WR group.

I’m a numbers dork and I know that WR weight is better correlated with NFL success than speed. Makes sense in a few different ways - easier to hold up physically, better to make contested plays in a league where windows are smaller.

Schematically we talk about the more explosive guys for the WR element in the run game - isn’t bulk important there too? I think about the guys SF has drafted - Samuel and Aiyuk aren’t the tallest but they’re pretty sturdy dudes. I could see that general build working as those guys can hold up but it’s easier to have wiggle than when you get to those 6’3+ dudes who have higher centers of gravity.

I realize it’s kind of simplistic but anything to what I’m thinking there or is it off? I could see it working with Moore and other good fits around him but it just doesn’t seem like they’ve got the guys to run what they want. That’s also clearly an issue with a bunch of other spots - tight end is a disaster and they really could use a fullback.

youre not far off, but i think the actual weight number is overstated, its about build more than weight.  Moore may not be the biggest but he's solidly built which is important.  

SF uses well built guys because they like to run alot of crossing, over the middle throws and jets.  Deebo is like 6'2 215, Aiuyk is 200 6'0.  So outside of crowder, who will be gone next year, the jets have sort of similar personnel.  Davis is 6'3 209, Mims 6'3 215, and moore is 6'0 195.  The problem is davis is not as explosive as a guy like Deebo (or as physical really). and Mims is a slight 215 it looks like.  Moore is probably the best fit right now. 

You are correct too from a mechanical standpoint, taller guys generally have less wiggle than a player that is shorter, with a better center of gravity.  Finding players in that 6'-6'2 195-215 range that are explosive is the best bet i believe for this offense.  I keep pumping G. Wilson here which is easy at this point, he's been the best WR in CFB this year, but he reallllly fits well in this offense.  6'0 about 195 (could still bulk a little), Explosive and a reallllly pollished route runner already.  He's snapped off some routes this year that were gorgeous. 

[BurntDice]

Edge, ol, s, cb, te, lb

 

id go edge with our pick and trade down the hawks pick to try and get something for 2023. Take linderbaum/ekwanu/Hamilton there, take lb/s/cb/te the rest of the way 

[Chrebetfan80]

Based on a lot of info going forward, obviously things will change.  If the jets trade down from say seattles pick to a mid first, in the 15-20 range.  This is an excellent spot to grab either a WR or LB. 

Both Lloyd and Dean will be around this range (maybe higher) and both fit this defense well in terms of speed, play recognition, and coverage ability.  

If you want to fix the defense this is a really good start.  

After these two the crop takes a dip but there are still good and intriguing prospects in the draft to help on defense. 

Brandon Smith from penn st., Cristian Harris from bama, and Brian Asamoah from oklahoma, all fit what I believe we are looking for.  

I also think the jets can further develop Quincy Williams to be a good starter.  He shows flashes now, With consistency and better play recognition he could be even better. 

[Sonny Werblin]

I said split, but the only O position they should draft is RG, C and TE and all three picks should be guys who can start from day 1. 

The Jets have 7 picks in the first four rounds with 2 in the first; 2 in the second; 1 in the third; and 2 in the fourth. 

I'd like to see them get a  RG, C, TE, CB, and LB with 5 of the first 6 picks. I wouldn't object if they spent a first round pick on a DE who could be elite -- Thibodeaux, Hutchinson or Karlaftis.