Final games for the following Jets> Lawson, Davis ..

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1. Edge Lawson.  JJ & Clemons are better against the run and are only getting started as pass rushers.  Huff is our pass rushing specialist on the other side.  Save $15M.

2. WR Davis.  Cannot stay healthy, is only OK at getting open, and is not a red zone threat.  Save $10M

3. Interior OLine.  Why?  Because we cannot run on first down (or any down), SUCK at short yardage and consistently fail to create a clean pocket (especially in critical situations).

(Our ‘too smart’ OC decides to keep running on 1st down, uses 2nd down to minimize 3rd & long and then passes or runs trick plays on both 3rd & short/long because we cannot run.)

Tomlinson.  Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$.  Save ~$13M next year with a post June 1 cut.  A little more than $4M dead cap hit in both 2023 and 2024

McGovern.  Has his strengths but is part of the above problem and will be on the wrong side of 30

Herbig.  Deserves an overachiever award but is little more than a quality backup.  50/50 he’s back as a reserve 

4. Fant.  Thanks for 2021 and good luck in free agency.  This is an easy one.

(A healthy Brown and AVT are our only returning starters + Mitchell who has health issues.  Brown has played hurt and still been our best run blocker while holding up reasonably well on the outside (1 sack); the Jets can upgrade in only so many spots and his $6.3M dead cap makes cutting less probable)

5. FS Joyner.  Bad move getting rid of Pinnock who is starting and playing well for the Giants.  Short sighted move actually..

6. LB Mosley.  No way the Jets are paying him $17M salary.  Stupid penalty against the Bills, responsible for the late Lions TD, and continues to be a liability in coverage.  50/50 he comes back with a pay cut.  JD doesn’t just keep him for sentimental hogwash.

7. Rankins.  In the running for Most Improved Player award.  I’m leaning toward re-signing but you never know with free agency.  60/40 he returns 

8. White.  TBD.  Let’s see if he can come back this year and decide from there.  50/50 he returns in 2023.

9. Berrios.  #2 slot + top 3 fair catch rate punt returners don’t make $5.5M salary for gadget plays; save $5M

10. Mann.  Captain Shank, Captain Touchback.. Save $1M.

The Jets save $43M cutting Lawson, Davis and Tomlinson, and Berrios.  Can save millions more asking Mosley for a pay cut or replacing him outright post June 1

So the Jets would have roughly $51M to work with using projected 2023 salary cap (net of rookie pool) and possibly up to $55-60M if they  adjust or move on from Mosley.  Plus the draft.

QB, G, C, RT, #2 WR (not named Mims), DT (re-sign Rankins), Tender Huff ($5M+), 2 LBs (re-sign Quincy, possibly replace Mosley), FS, and Punter

[k-met57]

10 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

1. Edge Lawson.  JJ & Clemons are better against the run and are only getting started as pass rushers.  Huff is our pass rushing specialist on the other side.  Save $15M.

2. WR Davis.  Cannot stay healthy, is only OK at getting open, and is not a red zone threat.  Save $10M

3. Interior OLine.  Why?  Because we cannot run on first down (or any down), SUCK at short yardage and consistently fail to create a clean pocket (especially in critical situations).

(Our ‘too smart’ OC decides to keep running on 1st down, uses 2nd down to minimize 3rd & long and then passes or runs trick plays on both 3rd & short/long because we cannot run.)

Tomlinson.  Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$.  Save ~$13M next year with a post June 1 cut.  A little more than $4M dead cap hit in both 2023 and 2024

McGovern.  Has his strengths but is part of the above problem and will be on the wrong side of 30

Herbig.  Deserves an overachiever award but is little more than a quality backup.  50/50 he’s back as a reserve 

4. Fant.  Thanks for 2021 and good luck in free agency.  This is an easy one.

(A healthy Brown and AVT are our only returning starters + Mitchell who has health issues.  Brown has played hurt and still been our best run blocker while holding up reasonably well on the outside (1 sack); the Jets can upgrade in only so many spots and his $6.3M dead cap makes cutting less probable)

5. FS Joyner.  Bad move getting rid of Pinnock who is starting and playing well for the Giants.  Short sighted move actually..

6. LB Mosley.  No way the Jets are paying him $17M salary.  Stupid penalty against the Bills, responsible for the late Lions TD, and continues to be a liability in coverage.  50/50 he comes back with a pay cut.  JD doesn’t just keep him for sentimental hogwash.

7. Rankins.  In the running for Most Improved Player award.  I’m leaning toward re-signing but you never know with free agency.  60/40 he returns 

8. White.  TBD.  Let’s see if he can come back this year and decide from there.  50/50 he returns in 2023.

9. Berrios.  #2 slot + top 3 fair catch rate punt returners don’t make $5.5M salary for gadget plays; save $5M

10. Mann.  Captain Shank, Captain Touchback.. Save $1M.

The Jets save $43M cutting Lawson, Davis and Tomlinson, and Berrios.  Can save millions more asking Mosley for a pay cut or replacing him outright post June 1

So the Jets would have roughly $51M to work with using projected 2023 salary cap (net of rookie pool) and possibly up to $55-60M if they  adjust or move on from Mosley.  Plus the draft.

QB, G, C, RT, #2 WR (not named Mims), DT (re-sign Rankins), 2 LBs (re-sign Quincy, possibly replace Mosley), FS, and Punter

you lost me at Brown. The jets havent been able to run the ball in 3 weeks, and in the game against detroit every time i picked my head up he was being beat like he stole something.

[SickJetFan]

38 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

1. Edge Lawson.  JJ & Clemons are better against the run and are only getting started as pass rushers.  Huff is our pass rushing specialist on the other side.  Save $15M.

2. WR Davis.  Cannot stay healthy, is only OK at getting open, and is not a red zone threat.  Save $10M

3. Interior OLine.  Why?  Because we cannot run on first down (or any down), SUCK at short yardage and consistently fail to create a clean pocket (especially in critical situations).

(Our ‘too smart’ OC decides to keep running on 1st down, uses 2nd down to minimize 3rd & long and then passes or runs trick plays on both 3rd & short/long because we cannot run.)

Tomlinson.  Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$.  Save ~$13M next year with a post June 1 cut.  A little more than $4M dead cap hit in both 2023 and 2024

McGovern.  Has his strengths but is part of the above problem and will be on the wrong side of 30

Herbig.  Deserves an overachiever award but is little more than a quality backup.  50/50 he’s back as a reserve 

4. Fant.  Thanks for 2021 and good luck in free agency.  This is an easy one.

(A healthy Brown and AVT are our only returning starters + Mitchell who has health issues.  Brown has played hurt and still been our best run blocker while holding up reasonably well on the outside (1 sack); the Jets can upgrade in only so many spots and his $6.3M dead cap makes cutting less probable)

5. FS Joyner.  Bad move getting rid of Pinnock who is starting and playing well for the Giants.  Short sighted move actually..

6. LB Mosley.  No way the Jets are paying him $17M salary.  Stupid penalty against the Bills, responsible for the late Lions TD, and continues to be a liability in coverage.  50/50 he comes back with a pay cut.  JD doesn’t just keep him for sentimental hogwash.

7. Rankins.  In the running for Most Improved Player award.  I’m leaning toward re-signing but you never know with free agency.  60/40 he returns 

8. White.  TBD.  Let’s see if he can come back this year and decide from there.  50/50 he returns in 2023.

9. Berrios.  #2 slot + top 3 fair catch rate punt returners don’t make $5.5M salary for gadget plays; save $5M

10. Mann.  Captain Shank, Captain Touchback.. Save $1M.

The Jets save $43M cutting Lawson, Davis and Tomlinson, and Berrios.  Can save millions more asking Mosley for a pay cut or replacing him outright post June 1

So the Jets would have roughly $51M to work with using projected 2023 salary cap (net of rookie pool) and possibly up to $55-60M if they  adjust or move on from Mosley.  Plus the draft.

QB, G, C, RT, #2 WR (not named Mims), DT (re-sign Rankins), 2 LBs (re-sign Quincy, possibly replace Mosley), FS, and Punter

I would lowball Rankins be nice to get back on cheap cause he knows the defense but he was JAG last yeah in non-contract year.

Pinnock was def mistake.

I would try bring Joyner back again on 1 year since they made their bed with that.

depends on avail FA WRs with Berrios and Davis because the WR salaries have gone up

I like Lawson and Huff would like to see both back regardless of the Lawson lack stats.

[More Cowbell]

46 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

1. Edge Lawson.  JJ & Clemons are better against the run and are only getting started as pass rushers.  Huff is our pass rushing specialist on the other side.  Save $15M.

2. WR Davis.  Cannot stay healthy, is only OK at getting open, and is not a red zone threat.  Save $10M

3. Interior OLine.  Why?  Because we cannot run on first down (or any down), SUCK at short yardage and consistently fail to create a clean pocket (especially in critical situations).

(Our ‘too smart’ OC decides to keep running on 1st down, uses 2nd down to minimize 3rd & long and then passes or runs trick plays on both 3rd & short/long because we cannot run.)

Tomlinson.  Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$.  Save ~$13M next year with a post June 1 cut.  A little more than $4M dead cap hit in both 2023 and 2024

McGovern.  Has his strengths but is part of the above problem and will be on the wrong side of 30

Herbig.  Deserves an overachiever award but is little more than a quality backup.  50/50 he’s back as a reserve 

4. Fant.  Thanks for 2021 and good luck in free agency.  This is an easy one.

(A healthy Brown and AVT are our only returning starters + Mitchell who has health issues.  Brown has played hurt and still been our best run blocker while holding up reasonably well on the outside (1 sack); the Jets can upgrade in only so many spots and his $6.3M dead cap makes cutting less probable)

5. FS Joyner.  Bad move getting rid of Pinnock who is starting and playing well for the Giants.  Short sighted move actually..

6. LB Mosley.  No way the Jets are paying him $17M salary.  Stupid penalty against the Bills, responsible for the late Lions TD, and continues to be a liability in coverage.  50/50 he comes back with a pay cut.  JD doesn’t just keep him for sentimental hogwash.

7. Rankins.  In the running for Most Improved Player award.  I’m leaning toward re-signing but you never know with free agency.  60/40 he returns 

8. White.  TBD.  Let’s see if he can come back this year and decide from there.  50/50 he returns in 2023.

9. Berrios.  #2 slot + top 3 fair catch rate punt returners don’t make $5.5M salary for gadget plays; save $5M

10. Mann.  Captain Shank, Captain Touchback.. Save $1M.

The Jets save $43M cutting Lawson, Davis and Tomlinson, and Berrios.  Can save millions more asking Mosley for a pay cut or replacing him outright post June 1

So the Jets would have roughly $51M to work with using projected 2023 salary cap (net of rookie pool) and possibly up to $55-60M if they  adjust or move on from Mosley.  Plus the draft.

QB, G, C, RT, #2 WR (not named Mims), DT (re-sign Rankins), 2 LBs (re-sign Quincy, possibly replace Mosley), FS, and Punter

Who is replacing all these players?  I am not liking starring from scratch on the OL for a 3rd time in 4 years. Injuries are playing a big part on how that unit performs. 

[rangerous]

46 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

1. Edge Lawson.  JJ & Clemons are better against the run and are only getting started as pass rushers.  Huff is our pass rushing specialist on the other side.  Save $15M.

2. WR Davis.  Cannot stay healthy, is only OK at getting open, and is not a red zone threat.  Save $10M

3. Interior OLine.  Why?  Because we cannot run on first down (or any down), SUCK at short yardage and consistently fail to create a clean pocket (especially in critical situations).

(Our ‘too smart’ OC decides to keep running on 1st down, uses 2nd down to minimize 3rd & long and then passes or runs trick plays on both 3rd & short/long because we cannot run.)

Tomlinson.  Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$.  Save ~$13M next year with a post June 1 cut.  A little more than $4M dead cap hit in both 2023 and 2024

McGovern.  Has his strengths but is part of the above problem and will be on the wrong side of 30

Herbig.  Deserves an overachiever award but is little more than a quality backup.  50/50 he’s back as a reserve 

4. Fant.  Thanks for 2021 and good luck in free agency.  This is an easy one.

(A healthy Brown and AVT are our only returning starters + Mitchell who has health issues.  Brown has played hurt and still been our best run blocker while holding up reasonably well on the outside (1 sack); the Jets can upgrade in only so many spots and his $6.3M dead cap makes cutting less probable)

5. FS Joyner.  Bad move getting rid of Pinnock who is starting and playing well for the Giants.  Short sighted move actually..

6. LB Mosley.  No way the Jets are paying him $17M salary.  Stupid penalty against the Bills, responsible for the late Lions TD, and continues to be a liability in coverage.  50/50 he comes back with a pay cut.  JD doesn’t just keep him for sentimental hogwash.

7. Rankins.  In the running for Most Improved Player award.  I’m leaning toward re-signing but you never know with free agency.  60/40 he returns 

8. White.  TBD.  Let’s see if he can come back this year and decide from there.  50/50 he returns in 2023.

9. Berrios.  #2 slot + top 3 fair catch rate punt returners don’t make $5.5M salary for gadget plays; save $5M

10. Mann.  Captain Shank, Captain Touchback.. Save $1M.

The Jets save $43M cutting Lawson, Davis and Tomlinson, and Berrios.  Can save millions more asking Mosley for a pay cut or replacing him outright post June 1

So the Jets would have roughly $51M to work with using projected 2023 salary cap (net of rookie pool) and possibly up to $55-60M if they  adjust or move on from Mosley.  Plus the draft.

QB, G, C, RT, #2 WR (not named Mims), DT (re-sign Rankins), 2 LBs (re-sign Quincy, possibly replace Mosley), FS, and Punter

no issues with lawson or davis.  hard to say about the oline guys until becton's status becomes clear.  avt and mitchell should be ready and even though mcgovern is getting on the wrong side of 30 he's been pretty durable. the other guys are sort of coin flips.  isn't this quinnen's 4th year?  have they picked up the option?  mike white?  keep him if possible.  he's shown he can run lafleur's offense.

[peekskill68]

I think you may be undervaluing McGovern.  While I think JD needs to draft his replacement, I would not be surprised to see him re-upped at starters money.  You are right on Tomlinson.  Clearly a big miss by JD here...

[Tooooon]

Good post but this is very aggressive.  Jets are not in clean house mode after a highly successful season, albeit with a disappointing ending (likely).  
 

You have to remember, free agency is 95% full of guys who weren’t good enough to get extensions and are now in line for overpriced contracts from desperate teams.  Dumping your own guys doesn’t guarantee you are getting anyone better on a cheaper deal.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

6 minutes ago, Tooooon said:

Good post but this is very aggressive.  Jets are not in clean house mode after a highly successful season, albeit with a disappointing ending (likely).  
 

You have to remember, free agency is 95% full of guys who weren’t good enough to get extensions and are now in line for overpriced contracts from desperate teams.  Dumping your own guys doesn’t guarantee you are getting anyone better on a cheaper deal.

I can’t watch this OLine run block  or keep a clean pocket.   The inside is a mess and Tomlinson has gone down hill significantly  after his big contract.  They can’t keep him at $17M in 2023.  I like McGovern but he has slipped a bit too, in particular his run blocking which was a strength.  Plus he’s a free agent.  You can get a good center in the 2nd or 3rd round.  Can we really rely on Mitchell?  That’s the guy I would  have penciled in but blood clots and other question marks are still there.  Fant is a goner.

[joewilly12]

Rinse wash repeat? Here we go again 

[bitonti]

28 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Who is replacing all these players?  I am not liking starring from scratch on the OL for a 3rd time in 4 years. Injuries are playing a big part on how that unit performs. 

It's ridiculous that the Jets offensive line has had so many resources poured into it and they are still terrible. Who gives George Fant 10 million and thinks that's smart? Who gives Laken 18 per? Duane brown has played with a torn rotation cuff all year. Connor McGovern has been overrated since he arrived at 8 mil. Becton is basically a bust at this point. Remember Ryan Kalil? 

Yes avt is great the Jets are going to have to replace 2-4 starters, again.

Joe Douglas has shown gross mismanagement at qb and ol. 

 

And his handling of the wo position isn't much better. Wilson and Moore are players but the Corey Davis signing/berrios resign were also terrible 

[heymangold]

i'm not upset about pinnock.  he's a safety turned cornerback turned safety, or whatever he is.  he's an ok player on a middling giants defense.  while i don't like joyner, he's productive with more tackles, INTs and PDs.  pretty even trade off.

OL needs desperate help and safety needs to be addressed.

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

you lost me at Brown. The jets havent been able to run the ball in 3 weeks, and in the game against detroit every time i picked my head up he was being beat like he stole something.

You had me at "lost me".

[JTJet]

40 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I think you may be undervaluing McGovern.  While I think JD needs to draft his replacement, I would not be surprised to see him re-upped at starters money.  You are right on Tomlinson.  Clearly a big miss by JD here...

You're advocating for the man that allowed Mike White to be sawed in two by Matt Milano? 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Who is replacing all these players?  I am not liking starring from scratch on the OL for a 3rd time in 4 years. Injuries are playing a big part on how that unit performs. 

The line has issues beyond injuries.  The interior is a disaster and McGovern is an unrestricted free agent who will be 30.  Fant is unrestricted and has been a huge disappointment this year.

 

LT:  Brown (quality stop gap when fully healthy; consider first round replacement in 2024)

LG:  AVT (stud; LG is a premium position over RG)

Center:  Draft (round 3 where you can find a top 4 Center in the draft)

RG:  Free Agency (need a road grader with a strong anchor).  Will cost around $8M per year

RT:  Free Agency or Mitchell (if 100% cleared health wise).  FA will cost $10-12M per year

Swing OT:  Becton or Mitchell

Guard Depth:  Herbig and/or LDT.  Will cost up to $5M per year

#2 WR:  Draft (round 1 because cost in free agency is too high; round 1 will cost roughly $2.5M against cap using 2022's slotting system)

LB (Mosley replacement):  Draft (round 2)

FS:  Free Agency.  Will cost around $8-9M per year 

QB:  Free Agency.  Mike White will cost around $10M (including incentives) on 1 year deal to compete for starting job

Punter:  Draft (round 6 or 7)

Then you have to re-sign Rankins, Quincy Williams, and tender Bryce Huff = another $20M+ per year.  

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, k-met57 said:

you lost me at Brown. The jets havent been able to run the ball in 3 weeks, and in the game against detroit every time i picked my head up he was being beat like he stole something.

He's injured is the problem. Absent perfect leverage on every snap it'll happen because he's got a bum shoulder & it's been this way all season.

Tomlinson has no such excuses.

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The line has issues beyond injuries.  The interior is a disaster and McGovern is an unrestricted free agent and will be 30.  Fant is unrestricted and has been a huge disappointment this year.

 

LT:  Brown (quality stop gap when fully healthy; consider first round replacement in 2024)

LG:  AVT (stud; LG is a premium position over RG)

Center:  Draft (round 3 where you can find a top 4 Center in the draft)

RG:  Free Agency (need a road grader with a strong anchor).  Will cost around $8M per year

RT:  Free Agency or Mitchell (if 100% cleared health wise).  FA will cost $10-12M per year

Swing OT:  Becton or Mitchell

Guard Depth:  Herbig and/or LDT.  Will cost up to $5M per year

#2 WR:  Draft (round 1 because cost in free agency is too high; round 1 will cost roughly $2.5M against cap using 2022's slotting system)

LB (Mosley replacement):  Draft (round 2)

FS:  Free Agency.  Will cost around $8-9M per year 

QB:  Free Agency.  Mike White will cost around $10M (including incentives) on 1 year deal to compete for starting job

Punter:  Draft (round 6 or 7)

Then you have to re-sign Rankins, Quincy Williams, and tender Bryce Huff = another $20M+ per year.  

 

 

Assuming his poorer play is due to the shoulder (team must answer this) I'm fine with Brown returning, and finding another veteran RT, paired with Becton & Mitchell (neither of whom can be relied upon to start 15+ games, if for different reasons).

Also I'm 100% behind keeping AVT at guard. At tackle he's fine but not special; at guard he could be a deserved AP1. 

It's the rest that I'm not there, signing 2 veteran starters + drafting a 3rd with no one in place. 

Draft a center in round 3 is not a sound plan -- it's riskier than anything done this past offseason. If there are no prospects in round 3 who are worthy of starting all season, right away week 1 at that, then what? You give him the job anyway?

And c'mon, 30? He's a center, not a CB or RB. 30 is not at all old, nor is 31. If he gets re-signed, and even if he gets 2 yrs guaranteed again, the Jets can draft someone else before his age 31 season, to either play C/G as a backup as a rookie, or groom to start in place of 32 yr old McGovern in his non-guaranteed year.

Most likely McGovern returns, unless they can find an even cheaper veteran to go with as they head into the draft, because there's no way of knowing who you're getting, who'll be there, and who'll just suck as a pro even if you get a guy you kinda like. Let alone in the middle of round 3. 

Do that and now you're down to 2 new starters who hopefully fit, at RG and RT, with the latter not requiring a world-beater veteran because the tackle depth has two starter-talent guys.

I'd re-sign Herbig, but it's based on his recent play being due to injury not the league catching up with his tendencies. The team really has to be the ones to answer that question. Anyway if he's brought back then it's just 1 needed new face; two if Becton does stay on the field & beats out Brown. (After missing 2 straight seasons - both since the coaching/offense changes - Becton is effectively a new face himself).

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

You're advocating for the man that allowed Mike White to be sawed in two by Matt Milano? 

Was that actually his guy?  Seriously just asking.  

[JTJet]

2 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Was that actually his guy?  Seriously just asking.  

Idl but I would assume it most likely was considering he ran directly up the middle. 

[peekskill68]

54 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Idl but I would assume it most likely was considering he ran directly up the middle. 

Actually from this shot it looks like Milano was a missed block by Carter.  McGovern was helping Tomlinson who was in the process of being demolished...

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The line has issues beyond injuries.  The interior is a disaster and McGovern is an unrestricted free agent who will be 30.  Fant is unrestricted and has been a huge disappointment this year.

 

LT:  Brown (quality stop gap when fully healthy; consider first round replacement in 2024)

LG:  AVT (stud; LG is a premium position over RG)

Center:  Draft (round 3 where you can find a top 4 Center in the draft)

RG:  Free Agency (need a road grader with a strong anchor).  Will cost around $8M per year

RT:  Free Agency or Mitchell (if 100% cleared health wise).  FA will cost $10-12M per year

Swing OT:  Becton or Mitchell

Guard Depth:  Herbig and/or LDT.  Will cost up to $5M per year

#2 WR:  Draft (round 1 because cost in free agency is too high; round 1 will cost roughly $2.5M against cap using 2022's slotting system)

LB (Mosley replacement):  Draft (round 2)

FS:  Free Agency.  Will cost around $8-9M per year 

QB:  Free Agency.  Mike White will cost around $10M (including incentives) on 1 year deal to compete for starting job

Punter:  Draft (round 6 or 7)

Then you have to re-sign Rankins, Quincy Williams, and tender Bryce Huff = another $20M+ per year.  

 

 

I'm not that concerned with Brown. His play has fallen off a bit bit I think he is still playing well enough. 

AVT I would like to return to LG where he was as a rookie. We need to develop sone consistency 

RG I would have Tomlison and a FA or draft pick compete for the position.  Unless there is a roster bonus in his contract, we can always waive him in camp

RT is going to be Becton unless he gets injured again and I believe they will keep Mitchell as insurance.  I doubt either one finishes the season healthy so we may want to take flyer on a 3rd or 4th round tackle. 

 

The rest , who knows. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

15 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I'm not that concerned with Brown. His play has fallen off a bit bit I think he is still playing well enough. 

AVT I would like to return to LG where he was as a rookie. We need to develop sone consistency 

RG I would have Tomlison and a FA or draft pick compete for the position.  Unless there is a roster bonus in his contract, we can always waive him in camp

RT is going to be Becton unless he gets injured again and I believe they will keep Mitchell as insurance.  I doubt either one finishes the season healthy so we may want to take flyer on a 3rd or 4th round tackle. 

 

The rest , who knows. 

I do prefer your RT scenario but both are big question marks at this time.  Hopefully Becton matures big time, dropping weight in the process and Mitchell is cleared medically and the Jets are confident he can take the next step in his development.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

35 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Actually from this shot it looks like Milano was a missed block by Carter.  McGovern was helping Tomlinson who was in the process of being demolished...

It was Carter who picked him up to late but that's the thing with McGovern.  He doesn't seem to be a good general directing blocking assignments.  Jets often get hurt by stunts and blitzes.  But tough to tell in this case without knowing the nuances of their blocking scheme.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Assuming his poorer play is due to the shoulder (team must answer this) I'm fine with Brown returning, and finding another veteran RT, paired with Becton & Mitchell (neither of whom can be relied upon to start 15+ games, if for different reasons).

Also I'm 100% behind keeping AVT at guard. At tackle he's fine but not special; at guard he could be a deserved AP1. 

It's the rest that I'm not there, signing 2 veteran starters + drafting a 3rd with no one in place. 

Draft a center in round 3 is not a sound plan -- it's riskier than anything done this past offseason. If there are no prospects in round 3 who are worthy of starting all season, right away week 1 at that, then what? You give him the job anyway?

And c'mon, 30? He's a center, not a CB or RB. 30 is not at all old, nor is 31. If he gets re-signed, and even if he gets 2 yrs guaranteed again, the Jets can draft someone else before his age 31 season, to either play C/G as a backup as a rookie, or groom to start in place of 32 yr old McGovern in his non-guaranteed year.

Most likely McGovern returns, unless they can find an even cheaper veteran to go with as they head into the draft, because there's no way of knowing who you're getting, who'll be there, and who'll just suck as a pro even if you get a guy you kinda like. Let alone in the middle of round 3. 

Do that and now you're down to 2 new starters who hopefully fit, at RG and RT, with the latter not requiring a world-beater veteran because the tackle depth has two starter-talent guys.

I'd re-sign Herbig, but it's based on his recent play being due to injury not the league catching up with his tendencies. The team really has to be the ones to answer that question. Anyway if he's brought back then it's just 1 needed new face; two if Becton does stay on the field & beats out Brown. (After missing 2 straight seasons - both since the coaching/offense changes - Becton is effectively a new face himself).

Round 3 Center definitely has some risk, no question but that risks goes down when sandwiched between AVT and a premium RG.  I don't believe Herbig is that guy and I'm highly confident Tomlinson is not (made worse when he is due to count $17M against the cap).  We get pushed around like rag dolls in the middle and can't create space.  Maybe we grab our Center in the 2nd round.  Not much different than a first round tackle starting because the 2nd round is where you tend to have a shot at the cream of the (center) crop.   

I used to believe that McGovern was underrated by Jets fans.  Now I believe he is part of the problem.  But to be fair, I would need to look at film a lot more.  Maybe he is hurt by the play of Tomlinson and Herbig.  Our run game up the middle and to the right is AWFUL..  We are best running left.  

I do know this, the Jet's offensive line is nowhere near good enough and first round is reserved for a stud receiver in 2023.  I had us taking Sauce and a WR this past year, and I'm becoming more sure that WR #2 (and red zone threat) needs a major upgrade that realistically will come from the draft given the cost of WR trades and free agents.   

[peekskill68]

30 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

It was Carter who picked him up to late but that's the thing with McGovern.  He doesn't seem to be a good general directing blocking assignments.  Jets often get hurt by stunts and blitzes.  But tough to tell in this case without knowing the nuances of their blocking scheme.  

Again, just asking, is the center responsible for calling out blitz pick ups to the RB?  

[#27TheDominator]

I get that they are going to have to save money and can improve on some of these guys.  Still, this thread smacks of "Our team is good! Let's get all new players!"

A bunch of these guys are team leaders.  I hope they keep the right ones.  I get wanting to move on from Mann but that doesn't save sh*t.  You still need a punter and he will probably make the same 

[WhartonJet]

5 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

1. Edge Lawson.  JJ & Clemons are better against the run and are only getting started as pass rushers.  Huff is our pass rushing specialist on the other side.  Save $15M.

2. WR Davis.  Cannot stay healthy, is only OK at getting open, and is not a red zone threat.  Save $10M

3. Interior OLine.  Why?  Because we cannot run on first down (or any down), SUCK at short yardage and consistently fail to create a clean pocket (especially in critical situations).

(Our ‘too smart’ OC decides to keep running on 1st down, uses 2nd down to minimize 3rd & long and then passes or runs trick plays on both 3rd & short/long because we cannot run.)

Tomlinson.  Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$.  Save ~$13M next year with a post June 1 cut.  A little more than $4M dead cap hit in both 2023 and 2024

McGovern.  Has his strengths but is part of the above problem and will be on the wrong side of 30

Herbig.  Deserves an overachiever award but is little more than a quality backup.  50/50 he’s back as a reserve 

4. Fant.  Thanks for 2021 and good luck in free agency.  This is an easy one.

(A healthy Brown and AVT are our only returning starters + Mitchell who has health issues.  Brown has played hurt and still been our best run blocker while holding up reasonably well on the outside (1 sack); the Jets can upgrade in only so many spots and his $6.3M dead cap makes cutting less probable)

5. FS Joyner.  Bad move getting rid of Pinnock who is starting and playing well for the Giants.  Short sighted move actually..

6. LB Mosley.  No way the Jets are paying him $17M salary.  Stupid penalty against the Bills, responsible for the late Lions TD, and continues to be a liability in coverage.  50/50 he comes back with a pay cut.  JD doesn’t just keep him for sentimental hogwash.

7. Rankins.  In the running for Most Improved Player award.  I’m leaning toward re-signing but you never know with free agency.  60/40 he returns 

8. White.  TBD.  Let’s see if he can come back this year and decide from there.  50/50 he returns in 2023.

9. Berrios.  #2 slot + top 3 fair catch rate punt returners don’t make $5.5M salary for gadget plays; save $5M

10. Mann.  Captain Shank, Captain Touchback.. Save $1M.

The Jets save $43M cutting Lawson, Davis and Tomlinson, and Berrios.  Can save millions more asking Mosley for a pay cut or replacing him outright post June 1

So the Jets would have roughly $51M to work with using projected 2023 salary cap (net of rookie pool) and possibly up to $55-60M if they  adjust or move on from Mosley.  Plus the draft.

QB, G, C, RT, #2 WR (not named Mims), DT (re-sign Rankins), Tender Huff ($5M+), 2 LBs (re-sign Quincy, possibly replace Mosley), FS, and Punter

Agree with almost everything, except I think Herbig is a priority re-sign.  He has not been the same since the injury, and I think he is battling it out playing hurt.  When fully healthy, he was dominant during our winning streak in the middle of the year.  Would also like to find a way to keep Rankins

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

 

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I get that they are going to have to save money and can improve on some of these guys.  Still, this thread smacks of "Our team is good! Let's get all new players!"

A bunch of these guys are team leaders.  I hope they keep the right ones.  I get wanting to move on from Mann but that doesn't save sh*t.  You still need a punter and he will probably make the same 

It’s simply a plan to take the team to the next level.

1. Cut the overpaid and/or under-performers:  Lawson, Davis (can’t stay on the field), Tomlinson, Berrios

2. Try first to negotiate a pay cut in other cases:  Mosley whose inflated salary the Jets inherited 

3. Say goodbye to unrestricted free agents you can likely upgrade or where you can reduce cost:  Fant, McGovern

4. Upgrade a punter who is costing you games (shanks, failure to pin teams deep)

5. Use these savings to:

Re-sign young developing or reasonably priced players:  Quincy, Huff (RFA), Rankins

AND

To improve run game, big play + red zone, and LB/Safety coverage.

 

 

 

[shuler82]

 

It's nice to say 'cut everyone' but you need to replace them. And with the cap always going up, the contracts just keep getting bigger.

I can see Lawson going IF they resign Huff.  That's a big if.  JFM is a potential cut candidate as well, but given Rankins is a FA and Sheppard and Thomas are one year rentals, do they keep him and move him inside?  

2023 OLine -    Brown - Tomlinson - McGovern (resigned) - AVT - Becton/Mitchell.  Plus two early/ mid round picks.  Herbig is a FA and gone. Fant walks.   Tomlinson probably stays, even at his price tag and they bank that this was just an off year. 

Mosley- need to restructure or he should go. 

Corey Davis- think he stays.  Fans give him a lot of slack for his contract and not being an elite WR. But he's a security blanket for a QB and the only bigger bodied WR who can make plays on this roster. And he gets paid as a #2/3 guy. Who replaces him? Not Mims. 

 

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

10 minutes ago, WhartonJet said:

Agree with almost everything, except I think Herbig is a priority re-sign.  He has not been the same since the injury, and I think he is battling it out playing hurt.  When fully healthy, he was dominant during our winning streak in the middle of the year.  Would also like to find a way to keep Rankins

With you on Rankins.  I really need to look more closely at Herbig and McGovern.  That said, an ant would have difficulty finding running lanes :).

Now some of it is teams stacking the box against Wilson but the Bills and Vikings tell me it is more than just that.  These are teams you need to be able to run on.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Just now, shuler82 said:

 

It's nice to say 'cut everyone' but you need to replace them. And with the cap always going up, the contracts just keep getting bigger.

I can see Lawson going IF they resign Huff.  That's a big if.  JFM is a potential cut candidate as well, but given Rankins is a FA and Sheppard and Thomas are one year rentals, do they keep him and move him inside?  

2023 OLine -    Brown - Tomlinson - McGovern (resigned) - AVT - Becton/Mitchell.  Plus two early/ mid round picks.  Herbig is a FA and gone. Fant walks.   Tomlinson probably stays, even at his price tag and they bank that this was just an off year. 

Mosley- need to restructure or he should go. 

Corey Davis- think he stays.  Fans give him a lot of slack for his contract and not being an elite WR. But he's a security blanket for a QB and the only bigger bodied WR who can make plays on this roster. And he gets paid as a #2/3 guy. Who replaces him? Not Mims. 

 

 

I laid out my plan above with the cap dollars to pay for it. 
 

Tomlinson likely isn’t getting better as he gets older and Davis can’t stay on the field.  Why spend the extra $23M here?  Especially when we are having problems running overall or scoring in the red zone even when both are playing.  
 

Big issues that need to be addressed.  Tomlinson is our weakest run blocker and Elijah Moore, Braxton Berrios and Corey Davis are not red zone threats.  We invested heavily in tight ends who aren’t going anywhere due to the cap ramifications.     

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

 

It’s simply a plan to take the team to the next level.

1. Cut the overpaid and/or under-performers:  Lawson, Davis (can’t stay on the field), Tomlinson, Berrios

2. Try first to negotiate a pay cut in other cases:  Mosley whose inflated salary the Jets inherited 

3. Say goodbye to unrestricted free agents you can likely upgrade or where you can reduce cost:  Fant, McGovern

4. Upgrade a punter who is costing you games (shanks, failure to pin teams deep)

5. Use these savings to:

Re-sign young developing or reasonably priced players:  Quincy, Huff (RFA), Rankins

AND

To improve run game, big play + red zone, and LB/Safety coverage.

 

 

 

You dumped the whole o line.  It is well beyond ridiculous.  The key is consistency and stability and you are looking for a complete passes?

If you think JJ is better then Lawson you are pretty far from reality.  Huff too for that matter.  Clem I ns is better than Lawson cause he plays the run but Huffbis better cause he rushes the passer?

Some of these moves will be made some will not.  Douglas inherited Mosleyd deal, not the Jets  You are cutting a ton of snaps.  If you think the team is any good they won't all be gone

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

40 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You dumped the whole o line.  It is well beyond ridiculous.  The key is consistency and stability and you are looking for a complete passes?

If you think JJ is better then Lawson you are pretty far from reality.  Huff too for that matter.  Clem I ns is better than Lawson cause he plays the run but Huffbis better cause he rushes the passer?

Some of these moves will be made some will not.  Douglas inherited Mosleyd deal, not the Jets  You are cutting a ton of snaps.  If you think the team is any good they won't all be gone

Dude, it's a debate ... no need to make statements like 'you are pretty far from reality' :).  The fact is I never said JJ is better (except against the run) but rather Lawson is overpaid and the dollars are better used elsewhere.  Plus the Jets drafted JJ in the first round to be more than a run stuffer. 

Huff is an excellent pass rusher, better than Lawson on third down and the stats support it.  The reality is he is not an every down player but with JFM playing the run on the same side, we don't need him to be.  

As I articulated, I moved on from unrestricted free agents I believe we can upgrade or lower the cost for similar performance.  The line is pretty bad with currently 4 starters making more than $9M per year.  Exception on pay is Herbig.  The interior of Tomlinson, McGovern and Herbig hasn't been getting better. 

The Jets are 7-7 having lost 4 of 5.  We are not talking about a 10-4 team here.  LOL.  Most of my proposals are on the offense, which is nowhere near where it needs to be.

  

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Dude, it's a debate ... no need to make statements like 'you are pretty far from reality' :).  The fact is I never said JJ is better (except against the run) but rather Lawson is overpaid and the dollars are better used elsewhere.  Plus the Jets drafted JJ in the first round to be more than a run stuffer. 

Huff is an excellent pass rusher, better than Lawson on third down and the stats support it.  The reality is he is not an every down player but with JFM playing the run on the same side, we don't need him to be.  

As I articulated, I moved on from unrestricted free agents I believe we can upgrade or lower the cost for similar performance.  The line is pretty bad with currently 4 starters making more than $9M per year.  Exception on pay is Herbig.  The interior of Tomlinson, McGovern and Herbig hasn't been getting better. 

The Jets are 7-7 having lost 4 of 5.  We are not talking about a 10-4 team here.  LOL.  Most of my proposals are on the offense, which is nowhere near where it needs to be.

  

You want to debate?  Cool.  I don't think they are changing 4 of 5 starters on the OLINE.  McGovern is the one most were hoping to move on from.  Brown might be next.  Tomlinson has been a disappointment but I can't see them cutting bait this fast.  $27m for 1 season?  I think he is there through 2023 

I think you are grossly underrating Lawson.  I don't give a **** what JJ was drafted for.  I care about what he is and he has not sniffed Lawson yet IMO.  Lawson Q and the back end communication improving are why they don't suck on D like the 1st few weeks.  LWson played more snaps than JJ and Clemons combined.  Mosley played every down.  You are ready to hand that to Jamien Sherwood?

I fully expect FAs like Joyner Rankins ?and Herbig to get offers but I am not sure those offers will be enough to keep them.  I like Huff but I don't think he actually does that much.  I can see them tendering him and hoping to get a 2nd rounder.  They might have failed trying that with Robbie Anderson IIRC.

You can't say the roster is good and the QB play bad and then wave the 7-7 flag.  The roster handled the Pat's Vikings and Lions and still lost.  They are not that far off.

[shuler82]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I laid out my plan above with the cap dollars to pay for it. 
 

Tomlinson likely isn’t getting better as he gets older and Davis can’t stay on the field.  Why spend the extra $23M here?  Especially when we are having problems running overall or scoring in the red zone even when both are playing.  
 

Big issues that need to be addressed.  Tomlinson is our weakest run blocker and Elijah Moore, Braxton Berrios and Corey Davis are not red zone threats.  We invested heavily in tight ends who aren’t going anywhere due to the cap ramifications.     

 

I don't disagree in theory on Tomlinson and Davis. But your plan doesn't account for who would be available in FA to replace them.  

WR FA list 2023 -  Lazard, Sterling Shephard, DJ Chark, Randall Cobb, Marvin Jones, Schuster, Myers.  Who do you want that's an improvement and at what cost?

G FA list 2023 - Pugh, Saffold, Pryor, Seumalo...    

C FA list 2023 - Hudson, Kelce (both 34+)  and a bunch of crap. 

I think there's a world where Tomlinson gets cut, but given his locker room presence and his one year removed from being considered one of the top guards in football, my guy says the Jets plug him in next year.  Guy is 30 - not 35. He can bounce back, even if he will be overpaid. 

Again, Davis - who do you want from that WR list? We can spend less money and also get worse at the position. 

At center, I'm actually worried the Jets are going to be outbid for McGovern. Maybe it's for the best if we're talking 10M+ .. but then we need to find our man. Herbig is a  cheaper possibility, but I'm pretty sure he plays better at guard. 

Looking at Over The Cap, I think the most realistic cuts are:

1) Whitehead.  $7.25M cap savings.  Guy can hit but his pass coverage has been highly suspect. Only problem our S pipeline is weak.

2) Berrios -  $5M cap savings.  He's the WR who gets cut, with Moore already on the roster, And we draft someone mid rounds to be our 4/5 guy.

3) Lawson - $15M savings.  Saleh loves his DL, so a little tough to see. But if we resign Huff, and Clemons and Johnson continue to come on,  it's a possibility. I also wonder whether Lawson would be better in his 2nd year post achilles. 

4) Ashtyn Davis - $1.2M

5) Bryce Hall -  $1M

6) Mann - $1M

That gives you $30M to work with.. IF we cut Lawson.  I'm thinking we won't. So we're at $15M plus our $16M carry over. 

I'd then look to restructure Mosley and Tomlinson if possible, which would get us to around $40M... which we'd then be needing to find our starting C,  both safeties, resign Quincy Williams and/or Kwon Alexander, and figure out our DT situation since Rankins, Sheppard and Thomas are all FAs.  And oh yeah,  Mike White.  One bit of good news- Huff is a RFA in 2023. 

 

We've been flush with money (and no players) for so long, it's a strange position to be in. 

 

 

 

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

You want to debate?  Cool.  I don't think they are changing 4 of 5 starters on the OLINE.  McGovern is the one most were hoping to move on from.  Brown might be next.  Tomlinson has been a disappointment but I can't see them cutting bait this fast.  $27m for 1 season?  I think he is there through 2023 

I think you are grossly underrating Lawson.  I don't give a **** what JJ was drafted for.  I care about what he is and he has not sniffed Lawson yet IMO.  Lawson Q and the back end communication improving are why they don't suck on D like the 1st few weeks.  LWson played more snaps than JJ and Clemons combined.  Mosley played every down.  You are ready to hand that to Jamien Sherwood?

I fully expect FAs like Joyner Rankins ?and Herbig to get offers but I am not sure those offers will be enough to keep them.  I like Huff but I don't think he actually does that much.  I can see them tendering him and hoping to get a 2nd rounder.  They might have failed trying that with Robbie Anderson IIRC.

You can't say the roster is good and the QB play bad and then wave the 7-7 flag.  The roster handled the Pat's Vikings and Lions and still lost.  They are not that far off.

Ok agree to disagree.  I think the roster is very talented in spots and needs an upgrade in others.

Definitely not as high on Lawson as you.  JJ hasn’t had the opportunities on third down so his sacks won’t be there.  I love Huff by acknowledge his limitations as an every down player.

I have Brown, AVT and possibly Mitchell returning as starters.  Hope the letters health issues are behind him.

I will bet you a fake $1M that Lawson is cut after this year.