Dalvin Cook Trade ?

[JETS SB]

Not sure why I am trying to justify fact to a moron. Probably can convince my dog easier. 

[JETS SB]

Todd Gurley, Saquon Barkley, Jamaal Charles, Darren Sproles, Dalvin Cook, Dion Lewis, Gus Edwards, JK Dobbins, Jay Ajayi, Jerick McKinnon, Lamar Miller, Rex Burkhead

[Jet Nut]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:49 PM, JETS SB said:

Gotcha. So running backs regularly come back from ACL tears as good as before they were injured, in their first year back, regularly. You are saying it’s rare for RBs to not be themselves (Saquon and many others) right away. 

Good luck with that. Maybe you are watching a different NFL than I am. 

Yeah, they regularly do today.  
Saquan had an ankle on top of a knee.  He also had a torn meniscus on top of an ACL.  Saquan is the abnormality, not the one setting the curve

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, JETS SB said:

Not sure why I am trying to justify fact to a moron. Probably can convince my dog easier. 

Because you’re a bigger moron?  Make a moron look like Einstein?

[win4ever]

10 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I like how the weirdo draftnik couldn't understand why we would draft a back into that crowded room and now we have people acting like we need to trade for a back because it is so weak.  I would also like to know what our draft analyst types think about Travis Dye.  @Paradis @win4ever @Beerfish @Chrebetfan80 @section314 @sec101row23 @maury77 @derp @Jets Voice of Reason what say you?  I am sure I missed some, but my memory isn't what it once was.

For me, he seemed like a draftable guy.  Not my type since he didn't have much in the measurable department.  Some of that was being injured for workouts, but he wasn't going to light the world on fire.  RB is probably the main "if you want to, you can" position, so he might still work out.  Strikes me as the kind of guy that might eke out a place and while he is not going to excite you, he isn't going to embarrass you if he has to step in for some reps.  I guess the fumbling is the main fear - which is the main issue with trying when you want to, but maybe can't. 

If I'm being honest, I have trouble scouting RBs.  I usually just go for physical traits and from tape just look for guys that attack cutback lanes.  It's a weird position to scout because a decent amount of success is tied directly to the OL.  I guess the LeVeon Bell effect.  If you have a good line, then you are being patient and waiting for the hole to open up.  If you have a bad OL, you are barely walking up to the line of scrimmage before you get tackled.  

I think what made Hall great, and most of the running backs that are good in the league is their ability to cutback into a hole and accelerate.  I think a guy like Cook has the same ability to cutback into a hole and accelerate.  I just don't think he's worth the contract when both Hall/Izzy have the same skillset.  

On Travis Dye, I don't see the physical traits, unless we're talking bottom of the roster type.  I saw like one game (where I was looking at Addison) of him, and I was more impressed by their OL.  He has like no long speed whatsoever.  Although that ankle injury might be bothering him still because his 40 was much slower than what I expected (around 4.6 to 4.65).  He does cut back well, but the acceleration isn't there, he relies very much on the OL creating holes.  Barring injury, I wouldn't put him above Carter or Knight.  

 

[sec101row23]

9 hours ago, win4ever said:

If I'm being honest, I have trouble scouting RBs.  I usually just go for physical traits and from tape just look for guys that attack cutback lanes.  It's a weird position to scout because a decent amount of success is tied directly to the OL.  I guess the LeVeon Bell effect.  If you have a good line, then you are being patient and waiting for the hole to open up.  If you have a bad OL, you are barely walking up to the line of scrimmage before you get tackled.  

I think what made Hall great, and most of the running backs that are good in the league is their ability to cutback into a hole and accelerate.  I think a guy like Cook has the same ability to cutback into a hole and accelerate.  I just don't think he's worth the contract when both Hall/Izzy have the same skillset.  

On Travis Dye, I don't see the physical traits, unless we're talking bottom of the roster type.  I saw like one game (where I was looking at Addison) of him, and I was more impressed by their OL.  He has like no long speed whatsoever.  Although that ankle injury might be bothering him still because his 40 was much slower than what I expected (around 4.6 to 4.65).  He does cut back well, but the acceleration isn't there, he relies very much on the OL creating holes.  Barring injury, I wouldn't put him above Carter or Knight.  

 

Agreed.  Dye’s best attribute IMO is his pass catching ability.   He looks very natural catching the ball and if he can function as a blocker he could carve out a role as a 3rd down back.  
 

As someone who was a HUGE fan of Dalvin Cook coming out of college,  there is no way that JD should give draft capital and big money for Dalvin, none, zero.   End of discussion.  

[#27TheDominator]

13 hours ago, Larz said:

Vikings RB Dalvin Cook is making "excellent progress" in his recovery from mid-February shoulder surgery, according to NFL Network's Tom Pelissero. That procedure addressed a broken shoulder that Cook suffered back in 2019 and has been playing through since. The shoulder is "now 100% stable and stronger," per Pelissero. It doesn't sound like this will impact Cook's availability for the 2023 season. He's been mentioned as a potential trade or even cut candidate -- but this shoulder issue might be holding up any potential move. Perhaps something tran

Broken shoulder?  Why are these articles so damned technical?

[#27TheDominator]

11 hours ago, JETS SB said:

So when you bring in Aaron Rodgers, you cannot count on your best healthiest running back being a late 5th round pick who cannot block or consistently catch a ball out of the backfield.  I like the kid but he’s raw and one dimensional. Breece might need some time, even an entire season, to get back to full strength. Michael Carter is terrible. If we don’t bring in a good veteran RB, it would be a huge mistake.  

Good ,  veteran, reasonably priced.  You can only have two.

[Chrebetfan80]

21 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I like how the weirdo draftnik couldn't understand why we would draft a back into that crowded room and now we have people acting like we need to trade for a back because it is so weak.  I would also like to know what our draft analyst types think about Travis Dye.  @Paradis @win4ever @Beerfish @Chrebetfan80 @section314 @sec101row23 @maury77 @derp @Jets Voice of Reason what say you?  I am sure I missed some, but my memory isn't what it once was.

For me, he seemed like a draftable guy.  Not my type since he didn't have much in the measurable department.  Some of that was being injured for workouts, but he wasn't going to light the world on fire.  RB is probably the main "if you want to, you can" position, so he might still work out.  Strikes me as the kind of guy that might eke out a place and while he is not going to excite you, he isn't going to embarrass you if he has to step in for some reps.  I guess the fumbling is the main fear - which is the main issue with trying when you want to, but maybe can't. 

I think he fits what we're looking to do here in the run game.  I think he can stick as a PS guy but it will be hard to crack the roster right now with the depth we have at the position.  He's a one cut guy, reads his blocks well on inside and outside zone, presses the hole and follows his guys.  He also is a pretty good receiver out of the backfield, saw him catch a lot of passes down the field at oregon so he has the ability.

  He doesnt have elite burst or elite agility so he doesnt fit the mold of the last few backs we've drafted that have legit HR ability.  I think he eventually could be a guy you put in that can grind out a few tough yards for you, but with what we have right now, i dont think you see him on the field. 

 

[Flashlite80]

On 5/12/2023 at 11:20 PM, bonkertons said:

I’m pretty sure that’s why they drafted Izzy.  We’re already without a 1st/2nd as well as our 6th or 7th from Clark. I’d rather hold onto our picks and see how this group does. If they suck, you can always make a move early in the season. I highly doubt they’ll suck though. This looks like a really strong group. 
 

btw let’s not count out Carter just yet. Dude looked like a high end 2 his rookie year. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him bounce back in a much improved offense. 

Agreed.  Hard for the lighter backs to do well when there is nowhere to run and they get hit in the backfield.  If you were at the games you saw him break 2 tackles and get 1 net yard gained, often.  Get him decent blocking and his big play potential will be there.

[Larz]

11 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, they regularly do today.  
Saquan had an ankle on top of a knee.  Saquan is the abnormality, not the one setting the curve

That’s just not correct. They play, but only Peterson and Charles didn’t suffer a production decrease.  
 

https://www.thefantasyfootballers.com/analysis/the-impact-of-acl-surgery-on-fantasy-performance-running-backs/

 

the data is clear. It’s a career threatening injury for older backs, younger guys can recover but the first year back is almost always a setback 

[Jet Nut]

21 minutes ago, Larz said:

That’s just not correct. They play, but only Peterson and Charles didn’t suffer a production decrease.  
 

https://www.thefantasyfootballers.com/analysis/the-impact-of-acl-surgery-on-fantasy-performance-running-backs/

 

the data is clear. It’s a career threatening injury for older backs, younger guys can recover but the first year back is almost always a setback 

The data has a lot of 10+ year old references and some silliness like 34 year old Sproles or Ajayi, the one year wonder included.  
Out of 10 listed RBs, 2 retired, 3 were 30+, 2 are one year removed.  Saquan is back to being Saquan 
So I guess I should have said it’s not career threatening but he may struggle in his 1st year back from time to time.  

[Larz]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The data has a lot of 10+ year old references and some silliness like 34 year old Sproles or Ajayi, the one year wonder included.  
Out of 10 listed RBs, 2 retired, 3 were 30+, 2 are one year removed.  Saquan is back to being Saquan 
So I guess I should have said it’s not career threatening but he may struggle in his 1st year back from time to time.  

It’s a small sample size because he only used injuries after 2015 to factor in modern surgery techniques.
 

It took 2 years for Barkley to be himself. That’s the takeaway.

Typically, Hall will struggle the whole season.  It’s possible he’s an outlier but more likely he will suffer a drop off 

[jgb]

Prefer Jeff Wilson + Teddy Bridgewater TBH

If you’re going to burn draft capital make it another WR. Great passing game does a lot more for a running game than another back.

[RevisIsland610]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:12 AM, Barton said:

Lets keep passing on probowlers like Odell and Dalvin Cook. Explosive players? Nah. 

We have Corey Davis and a bunch of 5th rd pick running backs. 

Yea sure. Let's pay a 30yo WR who hasn't had a 1000 yard season since 2019 and who missed all of last year 15 mil a year. He will be a disaster. Cook would make more sense but would still be expensive and Breece Hall is an elite young talent that should be ready to go when the season starts. 

[jetsons]

1 hour ago, derp said:

“When it comes to running backs NY Jets GM Joe Douglas has a type.”

He’s drafted four running backs in four years but only two are listed. I had forgotten about Carter but he doesn’t fit that “type” either. Would think if he had a type it’d be consistent over such a small window.

Just struck me as funny how quickly other picks get discounted.

not "discounted" just not relevant in this scenario.

[derp]

1 hour ago, jetsons said:

not "discounted" just not relevant in this scenario.

Not relevant to “Abanikanda and Hall have similar profiles, maybe Douglas thinks he found something he wants to replicate?” sure, but it wasn’t framed that way.

Not relevant to “Th GM who’s drafted four players at a position has a type”? Disagree. Other players drafted at the position are relevant to the scenario.

[jetsons]

1 hour ago, derp said:

Not relevant to “Abanikanda and Hall have similar profiles, maybe Douglas thinks he found something he wants to replicate?” sure, but it wasn’t framed that way.

Not relevant to “Th GM who’s drafted four players at a position has a type”? Disagree. Other players drafted at the position are relevant to the scenario.

You can disagree, as do I.

[derp]

6 minutes ago, jetsons said:

You can disagree, as do I.

You're welcome to disagree but not really offering any rationale as to why so I don't exactly know why you're continuing to engage.

[Joe W. Namath]

Dalvin cook has been in decline for 3 years now.  Had more surgery this offseason.  Dude is 27 going on 35.  There is a reason NO ONE would even trade a 7th for him beforethe draft.

He is a June 1st cut, will sign with the Dolphins and his career will peeter out over the next 2 years.