Joe Douglas fails again (pending a follow-up story)

[Bronx]

I know this is an old article and fundamentally rhetorical, but a worthy reminder of our current GM's incompetence.  

Joe Douglas Has Failed to Build Jets' Offensive Line

This former Jets scout is critical in his evaluation of Joe Douglas, GM of a team that has some serious issues on the offensive line.

• DANIEL KELLY
• DEC 27, 2022 11:10 AM EST

 

 

Since taking over, Jets' General Manager Joe Douglas has built one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.

During this time frame (2019-current), New York has surrendered 186 sacks, which represents the third-most in the league.

Some would argue Douglas was stuck with the offensive line he inherited, but that argument doesn't hold weight when examining his first three drafts.

On one of the most important units on the team, Douglas has drafted four offensive linemen in three years.

2020:

• Round 1 - Mekhi Becton (OT)
• Round 4 - Cameron Clark (OT)

2021:

• Round 2 - Alijah Vera-Tucker (OG)

2022:

• Round 4 - Max Mitchell (OT)

Vera-Tucker is the best of the group, but in Douglas' defense, even he along with the other three have dealt with injuries (to one extent or another). Clark never even saw the field and had to retire due to serious injury concerns during his first training camp.

Becton is the real sore spot on the list.

Despite there being pre-draft public intel on Becton having documented weight issues at Louisville, Douglas punched it at the yellow light. Becton has since been running out of gas battling both weight and injury issues.

He started 14 games for New York in 2020, and one game since.

In free agency, Douglas has had eight offensive line signings.

2020:

• Greg Van Roten (OG) 3 years, $10.5 million
• Connon McGovern (C) 3 years, $27 million
• George Fant (OT) 3 years, $27.3 million
• Alex Lewis (OG) 3 years, $18.6 million
• Josh Andrews (C) 1 year, $1,047,500

2021:

• Dan Feeney (OG) 1 year, $3 million

2022:

• Laken Tomlinson (OG) 3 years, $40 million
• Dan Feeney (OG) 1 year, $3 million
• Duane Brown (OT) 2 years, $20 million

Fant (35 starts) and McGovern (46 starts) are the noticeable winners on this list, and as for the rest...

They've been better at cashing checks than blocking defenders.

Lewis played in nine games and had contentious moments with teammates and coaches, before retiring the following training camp.

Andrews graded out as the second-worst guard that season according to Pro Football Focus. The team didn't bring him back, and Andrews has since played for two different teams in two years.

Feeney is Feeney (6 starts in two seasons).

Tomlinson has been reported to have struggled this season (I put a pre-season B- grade on Tomlinson), and Brown has played through a shoulder injury all year (I put a pre-season C- grade on Brown).

If Douglas was a batter at the plate for the Yankees, when examining his draft and free agency results, the television announcer would say 'And Douglas is looking at an 0-2 count.'

However, even more concerning than Douglas' draft and free agency results is his depth chart, or lack thereof.

More concerning than that is what will happen to this "depth" once the season ends.

Out of the 11 offensive lineman in reserve currently. 9 are in the last year of their contracts.

Looking at the 2023 salary cap, the Jets are scheduled to have $15,903,165 of cap space (per spotrac.com).

Nate Herbig, who is filling in for the injured Vera-Tucker at right guard, is also a free agent at season's end, as is Fant.

Douglas is in danger of being 4-for-4 in the department of producing losing seasons, and to say the Jets' offensive line could end up getting Douglas fired at the end of 2023 is the understatement of the year.

It is worth noting, New York has had two first-round quarterbacks fizzle out during Douglas' watch (Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson).

The theme of the 2023 NFL Draft for Douglas will need to be the offensive line, and these are the two linemen I'm suggesting the scouting department take a long and hard look at.

Round 1: Anton Harrison (LT) Oklahoma - A physical and aggressive mauler with long arms who reminds me of the 49ers' Trent Williams.

Round 2: Dewand Jones (RT) Ohio State - A towering (6-foot-8, 359 pounds) and strong presence with above average lateral foot speed.

Every Jets' fan in attendance at the draft needs to be chanting, "J-E-T-S, OFFENSIVE LINE, OFFENSIVE LINE, OFFENSIVE LINE" each and every time New York is on the clock, or it will not make any difference who's under center. 

[bitonti]

Kelly was dead nuts accurate on Anton Harrison and dewand Jones both instant starters and didn't require a top 10 pick to do it 

And that dude is not exactly Einstein 

That's the frustrating part. People think being Joe Douglas is so hard it's really not. You get good scouts like Kelly and you trust their judgment 

 

[doitny]

i say there is something up with all the injuries to the OL. no other position group has been hit as hard as they have for 2 years.

it cant be the turf cause the other groups are not getting it like the OL.

cant be the OC or OL coach as we have had 2 different ones.

its got to be the blocking scheme. maybe these guys are just not the right players for it.

 

[Plen T]

Can’t predict injuries 

[Smashmouth]

AVT was drafted in Round 1 not 2 and we gave up picks to get him

[Bronx]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

i say there is something up with all the injuries to the OL. no other position group has been hit as hard as they have for 2 years.

it cant be the turf cause the other groups are not getting it like the OL.

cant be the OC or OL coach as we have had 2 different ones.

its got to be the blocking scheme. maybe these guys are just not the right players for it.

 

This team is running the offense like chickens with their heads cutoff, with two clueless leaders in Saleh and Hackett (worst possible combo ever). 

[shuler82]

Only question I have at this point is …what did JDs nipples do to Bronx that hurt him so much? 

[Bronx]

5 minutes ago, Plen T said:

Can’t predict injuries 

Stop the apologies for obvious ineptitude. 

[Smashmouth]

Contrary to what the Jets have had for quite a while Douglas knows how to be a GM he knows how to trade get quality for less money and  not be fleeced like Mike Maccagnan. He has had some bad luck in the OL department and that can be correctable in the near future by doing 2 things get a real OL coach and sign players who have a history of staying healthy . That and getting some good young Ol in this draft can change things very quickly just like he changed our defense and skill players on offense who really need a QB to shine and I think we will see that next year with a real field general at QB who wont stand for the sh*t we are seeing this year. Some good WR's will be available as will OL and I think barring some more bad luck Joe will get it done.

[LSJF]

19 minutes ago, Bronx said:

I know this is an old article and fundamentally rhetorical, but a worthy reminder of our current GM's incompetence.  

Joe Douglas Has Failed to Build Jets' Offensive Line

This former Jets scout is critical in his evaluation of Joe Douglas, GM of a team that has some serious issues on the offensive line.

• DANIEL KELLY
• DEC 27, 2022 11:10 AM EST

 

 

Since taking over, Jets' General Manager Joe Douglas has built one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.

During this time frame (2019-current), New York has surrendered 186 sacks, which represents the third-most in the league.

Some would argue Douglas was stuck with the offensive line he inherited, but that argument doesn't hold weight when examining his first three drafts.

On one of the most important units on the team, Douglas has drafted four offensive linemen in three years.

2020:

• Round 1 - Mekhi Becton (OT)
• Round 4 - Cameron Clark (OT)

2021:

• Round 2 - Alijah Vera-Tucker (OG)

2022:

• Round 4 - Max Mitchell (OT)

Vera-Tucker is the best of the group, but in Douglas' defense, even he along with the other three have dealt with injuries (to one extent or another). Clark never even saw the field and had to retire due to serious injury concerns during his first training camp.

Becton is the real sore spot on the list.

Despite there being pre-draft public intel on Becton having documented weight issues at Louisville, Douglas punched it at the yellow light. Becton has since been running out of gas battling both weight and injury issues.

He started 14 games for New York in 2020, and one game since.

In free agency, Douglas has had eight offensive line signings.

2020:

• Greg Van Roten (OG) 3 years, $10.5 million
• Connon McGovern (C) 3 years, $27 million
• George Fant (OT) 3 years, $27.3 million
• Alex Lewis (OG) 3 years, $18.6 million
• Josh Andrews (C) 1 year, $1,047,500

2021:

• Dan Feeney (OG) 1 year, $3 million

2022:

• Laken Tomlinson (OG) 3 years, $40 million
• Dan Feeney (OG) 1 year, $3 million
• Duane Brown (OT) 2 years, $20 million

Fant (35 starts) and McGovern (46 starts) are the noticeable winners on this list, and as for the rest...

They've been better at cashing checks than blocking defenders.

Lewis played in nine games and had contentious moments with teammates and coaches, before retiring the following training camp.

Andrews graded out as the second-worst guard that season according to Pro Football Focus. The team didn't bring him back, and Andrews has since played for two different teams in two years.

Feeney is Feeney (6 starts in two seasons).

Tomlinson has been reported to have struggled this season (I put a pre-season B- grade on Tomlinson), and Brown has played through a shoulder injury all year (I put a pre-season C- grade on Brown).

If Douglas was a batter at the plate for the Yankees, when examining his draft and free agency results, the television announcer would say 'And Douglas is looking at an 0-2 count.'

However, even more concerning than Douglas' draft and free agency results is his depth chart, or lack thereof.

More concerning than that is what will happen to this "depth" once the season ends.

Out of the 11 offensive lineman in reserve currently. 9 are in the last year of their contracts.

Looking at the 2023 salary cap, the Jets are scheduled to have $15,903,165 of cap space (per spotrac.com).

Nate Herbig, who is filling in for the injured Vera-Tucker at right guard, is also a free agent at season's end, as is Fant.

Douglas is in danger of being 4-for-4 in the department of producing losing seasons, and to say the Jets' offensive line could end up getting Douglas fired at the end of 2023 is the understatement of the year.

It is worth noting, New York has had two first-round quarterbacks fizzle out during Douglas' watch (Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson).

The theme of the 2023 NFL Draft for Douglas will need to be the offensive line, and these are the two linemen I'm suggesting the scouting department take a long and hard look at.

Round 1: Anton Harrison (LT) Oklahoma - A physical and aggressive mauler with long arms who reminds me of the 49ers' Trent Williams.

Round 2: Dewand Jones (RT) Ohio State - A towering (6-foot-8, 359 pounds) and strong presence with above average lateral foot speed.

Every Jets' fan in attendance at the draft needs to be chanting, "J-E-T-S, OFFENSIVE LINE, OFFENSIVE LINE, OFFENSIVE LINE" each and every time New York is on the clock, or it will not make any difference who's under center. 

Thanks for the info, I’ll keep it on file…

 

[Bronx]

5 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

Only question I have at this point is …what did JDs nipples do to Bronx that hurt him so much? 

I heard that he messed around with my buddy Noodle Arms Jr., and that was a no-go...

 

 

[jetswinbaby!]

This O-Line blows?...

 

[SickJetFan]

Also old article but relevant in that the Jets failed miserably trying to implement over the last 3 years.

 

couple key points in it

extraordinarily difficult to teach

Blocking schemes require specific personnel that exclude a lot of standard, lumbering type linemen

are too dangerous to try out on fellow teammates who could easily sustain lower body injuries

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/08/16/why-its-hard-to-copycat-the-shanahan-style-offense-daily-cover

[dcJet]

Changing positions may lead to injuries.

28) Jacksonville Jaguars

LT Blake Hance, LG Tyler Shatley, C Luke Fortner, RG Brandon Scherff, RT Anton Harrison

If there was ever an example of why changing offensive line positions in the middle of a season can lead to injury, it’s the Jacksonville offense this past week. Walker Little moved to left tackle and injured his hamstring, and Ezra Cleveland tried filling in for him but suffered a knee injury.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/

 

[dcJet]

The Giants and Titans lines stink too but they can still score touchdowns.

It's the coaching.

[Bronx]

9 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Also old article but relevant in that the Jets failed miserably trying to implement over the last 3 years.

 

couple key points in it

extraordinarily difficult to teach

Blocking schemes require specific personnel that exclude a lot of standard, lumbering type linemen

are too dangerous to try out on fellow teammates who could easily sustain lower body injuries

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/08/16/why-its-hard-to-copycat-the-shanahan-style-offense-daily-cover

That's the fist thing mentioned, with a follow-up rhetorical story.

[Falco21]

Listen, I am not one to defend Douglas right now, but let's also look at this for what it is. He drafted Becton, AVT, and Tippman. Becton is clearly a VERY talented tackle. AVT is a stud. Tippman is proving to be a stud. 

The problem is health, which he could have never predicted. 

[Bronx]

4 minutes ago, Falco21 said:

Listen, I am not one to defend Douglas right now, but let's also look at this for what it is. He drafted Becton, AVT, and Tippman. Becton is clearly a VERY talented tackle. AVT is a stud. Tippman is proving to be a stud. 

The problem is health, which he could have never predicted. 

He hasn't put s decent OL in a single year during his five-year tenure. Numbers don't lie.

[Falco21]

6 minutes ago, Bronx said:

He hasn't put s decent OL in a single year during his five-year tenure. Numbers don't lie.

That isn't because of lack of talent. That is because of lack of health. 

Becton was a pro bowl tackle. He got hurt. AVT was a pro bowl guard. He got hurt. Tippman has been great and is becoming our next starting center. 

So no, I don't blame JD on the line. I blame injuries 

[derp]

3 minutes ago, Falco21 said:

That isn't because of lack of talent. That is because of lack of health. 

Becton was a pro bowl tackle. He got hurt. AVT was a pro bowl guard. He got hurt. Tippman has been great and is becoming our next starting center. 

So no, I don't blame JD on the line. I blame injuries 

Durability is something that needs to be considered when acquiring a player.

It’s likely been bad luck with AVT - although it’s worth wondering if moving him around caused problems.

For Becton, it’s not surprising that a guy with documented weight problems and a playing weight 30 pounds heavier than most of the bigger guys who play the position. Douglas gambled and lost. Doesn’t get a freebie because the talented risky player didn’t work out - the risk was a well known part of the decision.

[Joe W. Namath]

This team is 9-4 if rodgers is healthy.

You were all talking super bowl in august.

Joe D is back next year.  

Accept it jet fans.!!!!!!

Not his fault the qb got hurt.

[Falco21]

3 minutes ago, derp said:

Durability is something that needs to be considered when acquiring a player.

It’s likely been bad luck with AVT - although it’s worth wondering if moving him around caused problems.

For Becton, it’s not surprising that a guy with documented weight problems and a playing weight 30 pounds heavier than most of the bigger guys who play the position. Douglas gambled and lost. Doesn’t get a freebie because the talented risky player didn’t work out - the risk was a well known part of the decision.

He did not have an injury history in Louisville. The overweight concern came after he was drafted, not during his tenure at Louisville. Not much Douglas can do in that regard

[dcJet]

5 minutes ago, Falco21 said:

That isn't because of lack of talent. That is because of lack of health. 

Becton was a pro bowl tackle. He got hurt. AVT was a pro bowl guard. He got hurt. Tippman has been great and is becoming our next starting center. 

So no, I don't blame JD on the line. I blame injuries 

I think it's because of a lack of talent, lack of depth and lack of health.  All three. The first two are on JD.

In preseason rankings below, we were only the 23rd ranked OL at the start, and then we drop to the 31st ranked with just one or two injuries early in the season because no depth. 

The OL was never very talented to begin with.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-2023-offseason

23. NEW YORK JETS (UP 😎

Projected Starting Lineup

LT Duane Brown
LG Laken Tomlinson
C Joe Tippmann
RG Alijah Vera-Tucker
RT Mekhi Becton – Missed all of 2022 injured

• The tackles are the biggest concern for the Jets. Duane Brown is now almost 38 and visibly declining, while Mekhi Becton has played fewer than 800 snaps in three years.
• Aaron Rodgers‘ arrival could immeasurably help the overall performance of the line. He is as good at manipulating a pocket as any quarterback in the game.

Best Player: Alijah Vera-Tucker

• Alijah Vera-Tucker, unfortunately, played in just seven games last season, but he has shown elite play inside at guard. He allowed only one sack across 276 pass-blocking snaps.

[Barton]

33 minutes ago, Falco21 said:

Listen, I am not one to defend Douglas right now, but let's also look at this for what it is. He drafted Becton, AVT, and Tippman. Becton is clearly a VERY talented tackle. AVT is a stud. Tippman is proving to be a stud. 

The problem is health, which he could have never predicted. 

Fair.

The issue is his free agency record on the Oline.

They have all sucked. Every single one. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Plen T said:

Can’t predict injuries 

Lets accept this for the sake of argument 

You can't predict injuries but you can build a pipeline with mid Rd draft picks and talented offensive line coaching 

The Jets have an awful line coach who will most likely be fired and all the mid Rd picks have been worthless. Even if we give Joe Douglas a pass on the starters getting injured he built one of the worst ol rooms in the league 

They are literally starting a different right guard every week it's a joke 

Oh And he also built one of the worst qb rooms too.

Poor position coaches and These mid Rd picks captain Morgan, cam Clark, Carter Warren, and max Mitchell all terrible 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Lets accept this for the sake of argument 

You can't predict injuries but you can build a pipeline with mid Rd draft picks and talented offensive line coaching 

The Jets have an awful line coach who will most likely be fired and all the mid Rd picks have been worthless. Even if we give Joe Douglas a pass on the starters getting injured he built one of the worst ol rooms in the league 

They are literally starting a different right guard every week it's a joke 

Oh And he also built one of the worst qb rooms too.

Poor position coaches and These mid Rd picks captain Morgan, cam Clark, Carter Warren, and max Mitchell all terrible 

 

Cam Clark: IIRC, he had to retire due to injury.  Maybe concussions?

Carter Warren: The book is closed on him already?

Max Mitchell: Was good until injury (and it was an unusual thing IIRC, like blood clots)

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

Cam Clark: IIRC, he had to retire due to injury.  Maybe concussions?

Carter Warren: The book is closed on him already?

Max Mitchell: Was good until injury (and it was an unusual thing IIRC, like blood clots)

Those guys are all terrible and if they had any chance they don't get developed 

Lets put it another way.

Wyatt teller right guard for the Browns was a fifth round pick. Trey Smith right guard for the Kcc a sixth Rd pick. That's what mid Rd picks can be. Jets fans are too forgiving of how many picks the team wastes

These guys are pro bowlers and part of it is they scouted well another part of it the coaches like Bill Callahan and Andy heck are the best in the business. The jets employ garbage position coaches like Keith Carter and John Dui Benton. 

[Plen T]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Lets accept this for the sake of argument 

You can't predict injuries but you can build a pipeline with mid Rd draft picks and talented offensive line coaching 

The Jets have an awful line coach who will most likely be fired and all the mid Rd picks have been worthless. Even if we give Joe Douglas a pass on the starters getting injured he built one of the worst ol rooms in the league 

They are literally starting a different right guard every week it's a joke 

Oh And he also built one of the worst qb rooms too.

Poor position coaches and These mid Rd picks captain Morgan, cam Clark, Carter Warren, and max Mitchell all terrible 

They all get injured. Including the backups.

what he has done an atrocious job on is hiring coaches

[Jack Straw]

Kelly was dead nuts accurate on Anton Harrison and dewand Jones both instant starters and didn't require a top 10 pick to do it 
And that dude is not exactly Einstein 
That's the frustrating part. People think being Joe Douglas is so hard it's really not. You get good scouts like Kelly and you trust their judgment 
 

And what happens when your scouts tell you to draft DeWayne Robertson?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Bleedin Green]

For anyone paying attention, none of this is really a surprise regarding what was then, and still is now.  It's been pretty obvious for years, to anyone not refusing to acknowledge the reality of this team.  JD has pretty consistently been a poor GM for 5 years running.  His greatest success was to have gotten some wildly undeserved hype when signed, because we all know nothing is better than the guy who every hiring team in the NFL had just rejected for the same job.  He's since gotten the chance to ride on nothing but pure stubbornness from many after that.

The truth is, for as much as some want to laughably celebrate him being nearly two years removed from one draft of finally not taking all-time busts for a change, with his continuous stream of high first rounders being thanks to the garbage performances of every single one of his own teams, there's still been little noticeable improvement in quality of the less hair/more pounds copycat of Mike Maccagnan.

For as many excuses have been made for him about the team he inherited, 5 years later that group has nothing to do with the what exists today, and yet the guys he inherited still actually had a better record than any roster he has been able to put together himself.  Forget everything else, that is a completely indisputable matter of pure fact.  It's been no more than a string of excuses of why it's somehow not the fault of the guy who is totally responsible for the entire structure of the team that is just as bad or worse at every single facet of football, with the lone exception of CB.

Sure, OL could be considered one that jumps off the page, but that's perhaps because even a person who has never watched a single game of football before would still have the cognitive function to understand that continuing on an identical path of multiple years of known failure would be the most mind-numbingly stupid approach possible.  Yet, that's still the very best that JD could come up with.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Kelly was dead nuts accurate on Anton Harrison and dewand Jones both instant starters and didn't require a top 10 pick to do it 

And that dude is not exactly Einstein 

That's the frustrating part. People think being Joe Douglas is so hard it's really not. You get good scouts like Kelly and you trust their judgment 

 

Joe Douglas’ failure to identify offensive line talent makes it very easy to question just how much credit he actually deserves for the HR picks of GW, Sauce, JJ, etc.

My sense is Douglas is a consensus rider who probably worked hard as a scout and clearly nurtured the right relationships (e.g. Ozzie Newsome) but doesn’t truly have this mythical “eye for talent” everybody assumes he has just because of his Ravens + Eagles pedigree.

We know Ulbrich lobbied hard for both Sauce and JJ, and that even by the Jets own admission, they picked GW not because they saw superstar talent but because of need and the fact he was the closest thing to a “jack of all trades” at the position without any identifiable weaknesses.

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

Also old article but relevant in that the Jets failed miserably trying to implement over the last 3 years.

 

couple key points in it

extraordinarily difficult to teach

Blocking schemes require specific personnel that exclude a lot of standard, lumbering type linemen

are too dangerous to try out on fellow teammates who could easily sustain lower body injuries

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/08/16/why-its-hard-to-copycat-the-shanahan-style-offense-daily-cover

It's part of why I hate the Shanahan offense. If you think back to the days of Faneca, and Mangold, "pulling" athletic lineman were rare. Most teams just manned up. But now teams like the Jets are forcing their OL to play in a blocking scheme that they do not have the athleticism for and it is causing lots of injuries. If I had to guess sometime soon teams will realize this and go back to man blocking schemes for the vast majority of plays. 

[JohnnyLV]

21 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Joe Douglas’ failure to identify offensive line talent makes it very easy to question just how much credit he actually deserves for the HR picks of GW, Sauce, JJ, etc.

My sense is Douglas is a consensus rider who probably worked hard as a scout and clearly nurtured the right relationships (e.g. Ozzie Newsome) but doesn’t truly have this mythical “eye for talent” everybody assumes he has just because of his Ravens + Eagles pedigree.

We know Ulbrich lobbied hard for both Sauce and JJ, and that even by the Jets own admission, they picked GW not because they saw superstar talent but because of need and the fact he was the closest thing to a “jack of all trades” at the position without any identifiable weaknesses.

Literally anyone using a $10 draft guide would have likely drafted Sauce and Wilson the way the draft fell.  To me he gets zero credit for it.

[Bronx]

6 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This team is 9-4 if rodgers is healthy.

You were all talking super bowl in august.

Joe D is back next year.  

Accept it jet fans.!!!!!!

Not his fault the qb got hurt.

Welcome back Doña!

 

[T0mShane]

Drafting Becton over Wirfs and having Saleh beg an obese Becton to come into camp every year was a canary in the coal mine for this GM and coaching staff. The end result for Saleh compromising himself to pooch up Douglas’ psychological infant draftees is that Becton and Wilson are walking out the door and Douglas has to bring in an unmanageable washed up dickhead in David Bakhtiari to appease Rodgers again, and Bakhtiari isn’t going to make it out of preseason with those knees on the MetLife turf. Becton being a lazy POS begat Duane Brown, who was finished four years ago.