Carter Warren

[bitonti]

11 minutes ago, Lith said:

our recent history developing OLs does not leave me with much optimism.

Keith Carter is one of the worst OL coaches employed by any team. What did we expect?

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

FA tackle targets:  Tyron Smith, Trent Brown

this seems like such a bad idea 

neither of these guys play 17 games or close to it and they keep getting older

I get that they need help but these FA Tackles are just not reliable 

[Lith]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Keith Carter is one of the worst OL coaches employed by any team. What did we expect?

I don't disagree about Carter but he has only been here for a year.  Our history of not being able to develop OLs goes back long before Carter arrived here.

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, Lith said:

I don't disagree about Carter but he has only been here for a year.  Our history of not being able to develop OLs goes back long before Carter arrived here.

the guy before, John Benton, was another bum - got arrested for DUI in March 2022. I have no sympathy for drunk drivers in the age of Uber  - these are the most selfish losers around 

the Jets don't invest on good assistants they just garbage pick from the bottom of the pile 

Brant Boyer is good enough but they haven't had a real high paid assistant since Westhoff (who's now Asst HC in Denver) 

[bonkertons]

I actually wouldn't mind a 1 year vet, depending on who it is.  Gives Warren another year to see what he could be, before investing a top-10 pick into a guy like Alt or Fashanu which seals his fate.  Granted I wouldn't be upset if we did take one of those guys, that would be awesome, just saying I wouldn't mind the other route.  Use that pick on a weapon in that case.

 

...but yeah, Warren has looked promising.

[usapaw]

Is Tate Ratledge Tippmann's mullet brother? looks perfect for us.  

[Green Ghost]

5 years into the “OL guru Joe Douglas” era and we’re still talking about fixing it. Sad.

[#27TheDominator]

Even coming out I thought of Becton as more RT than LT.  I kind of agree on the guard thing, but can't imagine him accepting to move to guard.  He hasn't been bad enough at tackle to rate the Robert Gallery route.

[football guy]

If we're looking through an optimistic lens, there's no reason why a guy like Carter Warren can't be a good starter in the NFL, let alone by next year. We see it all the time. Hell, the book isn't closed on Max Mitchell (although I think he needs to move inside to G).

My problem is that Warren is another guy with an injury history that we'd be hoping can take the next step in a make-or-break year. Teams with good OLs don't hope; they methodically develop players over a few years and/or force the player to beat out proven competition. Guys drafted in the mid-to-late rounds in recent years like Zach Tom, Terence Steele, Jordan Mailata, Alaric Jackson, Colton McKivitz and countless others either were developed for a few years before taking over or they outright beat out the competition.

The Jets definitely see more than we do and they may already know what they need to know about Carter Warren, but my contention will remain that this guy didn't have to beat anyone out to get his starting chance (he started the year as our 5th tackle and kept getting bumped up due to injury/poor play), he hasn't had much time to really develop his body, and he has an injury history of his own. 

In an ideal world, the Jets sign a tackle with a proven track record, Carter Warren wins the job outright and we have a good starting tackle for the long-term. Just don't go into the offseason anointing him as the starter without bringing someone in capable of competing for a starting spot. 

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Sine I harp about the oline every single year I'll do it again.

AVT, Tippman are the only two potentially rally good guys we have and of course we know AVTs injury history.

Warren and mitchell are still in developmental/backup mode for me.

McGovern might get paid elsewhere but would be nice to keep him as a backup guard/centre

Becton and Thomlinson should be gone

We should attempt tow sign two FA olinean (yes i know not easy) and use our first rounder on the best tackle we can get.

So:

FA guard targets:  Andrus Peat,  Kevin Zeitler

FA tackle targets:  Tyron Smith, Trent Brown

Draft:  Fahsanu, Alt, (Fuaga, Latham, Mims)

Torn Achilles for an OL anyone have the stats on players coming back from that? At the very least I would think he will be limited all off season and TC.

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Torn Achilles for an OL anyone have the stats on players coming back from that? At the very least I would think he will be limited all off season and TC.

I think they usually figure a year for an Achilles.  I guess, unless you are a lunatic like Rodgers.  Jason Peters tore his in 2012 at 30 years of age.  In 2013 he played every game and was all pro.  He had three more consecutive pro bowl seasons and will probably be in the playoffs with the Seahawks a decade later about to turn 42.

[Adoni Beast]

15 minutes ago, football guy said:

If we're looking through an optimistic lens, there's no reason why a guy like Carter Warren can't be a good starter in the NFL, let alone by next year. We see it all the time. Hell, the book isn't closed on Max Mitchell (although I think he needs to move inside to G).

My problem is that Warren is another guy with an injury history that we'd be hoping can take the next step in a make-or-break year. Teams with good OLs don't hope; they methodically develop players over a few years and/or force the player to beat out proven competition. Guys drafted in the mid-to-late rounds in recent years like Zach Tom, Terence Steele, Jordan Mailata, Alaric Jackson, Colton McKivitz and countless others either were developed for a few years before taking over or they outright beat out the competition.

The Jets definitely see more than we do and they may already know what they need to know about Carter Warren, but my contention will remain that this guy didn't have to beat anyone out to get his starting chance (he started the year as our 5th tackle and kept getting bumped up due to injury/poor play), he hasn't had much time to really develop his body, and he has an injury history of his own. 

In an ideal world, the Jets sign a tackle with a proven track record, Carter Warren wins the job outright and we have a good starting tackle for the long-term. Just don't go into the offseason anointing him as the starter without bringing someone in capable of competing for a starting spot. 

Based on free agent availability + our draft position outlook it looks like we will be more likely to sign a LT (or two) on short deals, and draft a RT (who will compete with Warren as a Day 1 starter).

As far as guard goes I would hope they release Lake + move AVT to LG full time + start Schweitzer at RG (with Mitchell as the backup).

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Sine I harp about the oline every single year I'll do it again.

AVT, Tippman are the only two potentially rally good guys we have and of course we know AVTs injury history.

Warren and mitchell are still in developmental/backup mode for me.

McGovern might get paid elsewhere but would be nice to keep him as a backup guard/centre

Becton and Thomlinson should be gone

We should attempt tow sign two FA olinean (yes i know not easy) and use our first rounder on the best tackle we can get.

So:

FA guard targets:  Andrus Peat,  Kevin Zeitler

FA tackle targets:  Tyron Smith, Trent Brown

Draft:  Fahsanu, Alt, (Fuaga, Latham, Mims)

Keith Carter at this point is developing no one.  There are issues with replacing him in an obvious lame duck year for the coaching staff. 

[bitonti]

38 minutes ago, football guy said:

there's no reason why a guy like Carter Warren can't be a good starter in the NFL

he has poor lateral agility - that's the reason 

if he was a WR he'd be running a 4.7 or something 

yes it has happened before (jerry rice) but in the NFL you know this FG, speed kills 

its fine to be slow against a Commanders DL playing backups but they play Myles Garrett and company tonight

even with a broken Shoulder Garrett should feast on Warren and Becton too for that matter 

Jake Hanson gets zero press but he's terrible too these are all C+ and C level guys (JAGS) when you really need A's and B's to have a good OL 

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

this seems like such a bad idea 

neither of these guys play 17 games or close to it and they keep getting older

I get that they need help but these FA Tackles are just not reliable 

Good reliable FA olineman NEVER become available.

Best olineman in the game?  Trent Williams?   Serious medical issue that is whey he was available.

A guy like Whitworth?  Oh he is too old, too big a risk.

We simply do not have time to wait and develop all of these 4th rounders we keep taking or even higher level picks.  

Both Becton and AVT are as big of risks as these guys.

The unfortunate reality is we have to get good and get good fast on the oline.

I we trot out most of the same guys next as we have this year, jacoby brissett will  our starter by game 3

[jamesr]

It'll be interesting to see who does well - and who does not - against a far better defense tonight.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

he has poor lateral agility - that's the reason 

if he was a WR he'd be running a 4.7 or something 

yes it has happened before (jerry rice) but in the NFL you know this FG, speed kills 

its fine to be slow against a Commanders DL playing backups but they play Myles Garrett and company tonight

even with a broken Shoulder Garrett should feast on Warren and Becton too for that matter 

Jake Hanson gets zero press but he's terrible too these are all C+ and C level guys (JAGS) when you really need A's and B's to have a good OL 

Jerry Rice ran 4.5.

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:19 AM, bitonti said:

Commanders D line is completely gutted 

They traded young and sweat this year and lost Payne during the game 

So even if Carter Warren had a good game it was against non starters 

Well that and the qb had some remote ability to read a defense

[frankiepapa]

Watch some of the highlights from the 2010 game against Cleveland... what an offensive line that was.... the time Sanchez had to throw and the holes that opened for the run game...

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[slimjasi]

7 hours ago, bitonti said:

Keith Carter is one of the worst OL coaches employed by any team. What did we expect?

Our head coach hired him because he’s his buddy 

Employing your friends is very important for team morale

[football guy]

22 hours ago, bitonti said:

he has poor lateral agility - that's the reason 

if he was a WR he'd be running a 4.7 or something 

yes it has happened before (jerry rice) but in the NFL you know this FG, speed kills 

its fine to be slow against a Commanders DL playing backups but they play Myles Garrett and company tonight

even with a broken Shoulder Garrett should feast on Warren and Becton too for that matter 

Jake Hanson gets zero press but he's terrible too these are all C+ and C level guys (JAGS) when you really need A's and B's to have a good OL 

I wouldn't say he has poor lateral agility. It's average, and he makes up for it with his length. Where I think he needs to be better is his play strength, but I digress. 

The point I was trying to drive is less about him specifically, but that there are teams who are able to develop similar "average" or "below average" athletes into solid players without banking on them becoming starters. Alaric Jackson, Colton McKivitz, Braxton Jones, Rasheed Walker are just a few mid-to-late round picks/UDFA with similar limitations who have developed into solid players, and the full list of them is much longer than that. Those teams drafted (or signed) them intending to develop them as backups or starters, rather than forcing them in and hoping they could be good. 

[T0mShane]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:22 AM, bitonti said:

Keith Carter is one of the worst OL coaches employed by any team. What did we expect?

It was an anonymous quote when we hired him: someone said that hiring Carter was a “death wish.” 

[CanadienJetsFan]

Warren had a decent night vs a better d-line. Funny how Garrett seemed always lined up vs Becton. Most D-ends move around.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

Alaric Jackson, Colton McKivitz, Braxton Jones, Rasheed Walker are just a few mid-to-late round picks/UDFA with similar limitations 

Warren never tested but I feel like all the above except for McKivitz are better moving than Warren. Jackson and Jones are actually very decent athletes for their size 

What's happening here is that fans want Warren to be decent because he's under contract and because we don't want to replace 2 tackles when really he's pretty damn bad 

Last night he got toasted by Smith and forgot he was on the field goal unit. 

[Maxman]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:45 PM, football guy said:

Carter Warren should be the 3rd tackle at worst with an opportunity to compete with a veteran free agent like Bakhtiari or a rookie for a starting tackle spot. He can't be relied on as a starter though.

If I were building this line: 

LT: [FREE AGENT]  
LG: [DRAFT]
OC: Joe Tippmann
RG: Alijah Vera-Tucker 
RT: [DRAFT] 

• Backup LT/RT: Carter Warren 
• Backup LT/RT: [FREE AGENT] 
• Backup C/G: Wes Schweitzer (or FA)
• Backup G/T: Max Mitchell (or FA/Draft) 

I like that plan, I think Warren could be a good starter but they have to set the bar higher. So counting on him as being the 2nd RT is a good plan.

I would move AVT back to LG though. Hopefully round one is a LT.

Sign a guy in free agency that is on paper your LT. Draft the real LT in round one, move the free agent to right tackle.

1st rounder - AVT - Tippmann - ? Another free agent \ or 4th rounder - Free Agent \ Carter Warren

But they need legit depth at guard to.

And let's figure out why everyone is getting hurt please.

[SickJetFan]

25 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I like that plan, I think Warren could be a good starter but they have to set the bar higher. So counting on him as being the 2nd RT is a good plan.

I would move AVT back to LG though. Hopefully round one is a LT.

Sign a guy in free agency that is on paper your LT. Draft the real LT in round one, move the free agent to right tackle.

1st rounder - AVT - Tippmann - ? Another free agent \ or 4th rounder - Free Agent \ Carter Warren

But they need legit depth at guard to.

And let's figure out why everyone is getting hurt please.

That plan assume AVT will actually be ready for day 1.  Will he even be ready for TC?  will he have an off season?

Tippman - is not that good yet, may never be, and may not be that good to start next season - IMO they should try him at RG as he can grow there w/o be detrimental to offense

That means up to 4 new guys on OL to start season - tell you what..they better get a full off season together and 3 preseason games together

but 4 new guys sounds like a sh*tty plan

[Adoni Beast]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

I like that plan, I think Warren could be a good starter but they have to set the bar higher. So counting on him as being the 2nd RT is a good plan.

I would move AVT back to LG though. Hopefully round one is a LT.

Sign a guy in free agency that is on paper your LT. Draft the real LT in round one, move the free agent to right tackle.

1st rounder - AVT - Tippmann - ? Another free agent \ or 4th rounder - Free Agent \ Carter Warren

But they need legit depth at guard to.

And let's figure out why everyone is getting hurt please.

I’d look to sign two tackles in free agency (David Bakhtieri on an incentive heavy deal and Trent Brown) and draft OT

[Maxman]

3 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I’d look to sign two tackles in free agency (David Bakhtieri on an incentive heavy deal and Trent Brown) and draft OT

The purist in me wants to say Trent Brown is too old. But since he's like 10 years younger than Duane Brown that means he would be a great signing. 

I feel like Aaron isn't going to have any roster control but Bakhtieri is going to happen anyway.

Honestly not a bad combo as long as you're trying to top it in the draft.

Depth depth and more depth.

 

[Adoni Beast]

Just now, Maxman said:

The purist in me wants to say Trent Brown is too old. But since he's like 10 years younger than Duane Brown that means he would be a great signing. 

I feel like Aaron isn't going to have any roster control but Bakhtieri is going to happen anyway.

Honestly not a bad combo as long as you're trying to top it in the draft.

Depth depth and more depth.

 

Trent Brown can and is willing to play left or right + durable + reasonably priced.

[Maxman]

20 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Trent Brown can and is willing to play left or right + durable + reasonably priced.

Yes and I did think he was a few years older originally. Looked them up. He's only 30. Not too bad.

Maybe Rodgers will do some recruiting for us in a good way this time.

[JetsFlyer]

Warren wasnt terrible by any stretch. his main issues were when he actually had TE help and it caused confusion. 1 v 1 against smith he only allowed two near sacks by my account. his technique needs some work smith was way wide and he was stepping up to him, stupid and his anchor isnt great

some says he was a turnstile? he wasnt. forget the TE help, keep a RB in to block

why dont our tackles just use standards pass pro sets  kick steps  why are they jumping at speed rushers carter is too fancy for his own good  like the chip blocking early on get back to fundementals