AFC Head Coach Poll

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

how the hell can we go for it on 4th down with the worst QB ever? everybody knows we cant trust him to throw for a 1st down. so everyone would key on the run and we would get stopped.

lets see how many times he goes for it with Rodgers. i bet it will be a hell of alot more.

Fair.  I can concede that counterpoint.   

[TuscanyTile2]

3 hours ago, Mr. Rogers said:

@TuscanyTile2 you forgot Sean Payton, who I do, in fact, think we have an edge over right now with Saleh lol.

He is what the haters like to think about Bill belichik as - an egomaniac who would have been nothing without his HOF QB 

(OK maybe that's hyperbole, but I am disgusted by the job he's doing in Denver right now)

Oh crap.  I screwed this poll up.  The 2nd question I didn't have as multiple choice for like the first 15 votes (though I think about half were responded to with "none".  

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, doitny said:

i will give you Mike Tomlin but thats it. Stefanski went 5-1 with his starter Watson and 4-1 with Flacco who are better than Zach.

but when he had a Zach type player Dorain Thompson-Robinson, P.J Walker and Jeff Driscol he went 2-4.

and he went 4-7 with Brissett in 2022. 

Zac Taylor went 5-5 with one of the best QB in the NFL with Burrow. that takes him out of the conversation.

Shane Steichen: are you seriously given him credit for going 7-6 with Gardner Minshew? that guy is one of the best backups in the league. probably better than his rookie he replaced.

 

How did Flacco look for the Jets in the 2 years previous to this past one?  Not good.

Zac Taylor has been to a SB.

The rookie that Gardner Minshew replaced was Anthony Richardson, who was playing well IIRC.  He won the starting job and was putting up some nice numbers, especially for a rookie.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

5 hours ago, Bronx said:

Pederson should be have being hired over Saleh. 

What kind of record is Pederson looking at with Zach Wilson as his starter?

[TuscanyTile2]

14 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What kind of record is Pederson looking at with Zach Wilson as his starter?

Does Saleh win a SB with the Eagles in 2017? After Carson Wentz tore his ACL in week 14 that year, Saleh would've been too busy working on a presentation for his owner about how he couldn't have been expected to win anything with a backup QB like Big D-ck Nick.

[doitny]

42 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

How did Flacco look for the Jets in the 2 years previous to this past one?  Not good.

Zac Taylor has been to a SB.

The rookie that Gardner Minshew replaced was Anthony Richardson, who was playing well IIRC.  He won the starting job and was putting up some nice numbers, especially for a rookie.

 

and Flacco was still better than Zach.

Zac Taylor was 6-25-1 his first 2 years. Saleh was 11-23. what happpend to them? i will tell you. one drafted Joe Burrow and the other Zach Wilson. 

just because he went to one SB doesnt mean he is good. there is no excuse to go 5-5 with a team that has Burrow, Chase, Higgens, Boyd and Joe Mixon. 

ok fine Richardson is fantastic ...ok? Garder Minshew is probably the best backup in the NFL. he could be a starter on half the teams in the NFL. saying his HC is good because he won games with him is a joke. he better win alot of games with him because Minshew is very good.

there is not one HC beside Mike Tomlin that you can prove that can win games with a QB as bad as Zach.

if you want to prove it to me find a HC who could win games with a QB as bad as Trevor Sieman. ....oh wait i know, Robert Saleh. he went 2-1 with him. even Sean Payton couldnt win games with that guy. he went 0-4 with him in N.O

 

[doitny]

25 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Does Saleh win a SB with the Eagles in 2017? After Carson Wentz tore his ACL in week 14 that year, Saleh would've been too busy working on a presentation for his owner about how he couldn't have been expected to win anything with a backup QB like Big D-ck Nick.

Foles was in a PB in 2013. he threw 28 TDs and 2 INTs that year in 10 games. he wasnt a nobody nothing. much better than anything Saleh has had for 3 years so yes i think he could have.

[TuscanyTile2]

15 minutes ago, doitny said:

if you want to prove it to me find a HC who could win games with a QB as bad as Trevor Sieman. ....oh wait i know, Robert Saleh. he went 2-1 with him. even Sean Payton couldnt win games with that guy. he went 0-4 with him in N.O

Who did Saleh beat with Siemian as his QB?  The awful Commies and a Patriots team that had basically fallen apart. 

[TuscanyTile2]

11 minutes ago, doitny said:

Foles was in a PB in 2013. he threw 28 TDs and 2 INTs that year in 10 games. he wasnt a nobody nothing. much better than anything Saleh has had for 3 years so yes i think he could have.

Saleh would've put his tail between his legs and pleaded with ownership to bring him back the next year.

[doitny]

took me a while to do the research but here goes...

Sean McDermont: EVEN. 2-5 without Josh Allen in his career. Saleh is 2-2 the last 2 years vs him.

Mike McDaniel: EVEN 1-3 without Tua

John Harbargh: EVEN 3-8 last 3 years without Lamar

Zac Taylor: EDGE. 6-25-1 before Burrow. 5-5 last year with Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Joe Mixon.

Mike Tomlin: NONE. went 10-7 with Pickett, Trubinsky and Mason Rudolph. has done great for many years without a QB.

Kevin Stafanski: EDGE: 9-2 with Watson and Flacco. 2-4 without. 4-7 with Brissett in 2022. 8-9 with Baker playing 14 games in 2021.

Doug Pederson: EVEN: 18-16 in 2 years with Trevor. except for the SB he has a very unimpressive record. wins of 7,13,9,9,4,9,9

Shane Steichen: EDGE: not sure why he is even on this list. went 7-6 with the best backup who should be a starter. and 2-2 with Richardson who i was told is a very good QB.

DeMarco Ryans: EDGE: Saleh abused the ROTY for 91 yds zero TDs 54.8 RATE. he could not stop the worst QB in the NFL from getting 300yds and 2 TDs.

Andy Reid: EVEN: he has never not had a QB. McNair, Vick, Smith and Mahomes. 2-2 without Mahomes or Alex Smith. i got more from his Phila years if anyone needs more proof.

Antonio Peirce: INCOMPLETE: only coached 9 games (5-4). not enough data.

Jim Harbaugh: NONE: always had a QB and now with Herbert he always will. 

 

 

 

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

took me a while to do the research but here goes...

Sean McDermont: EVEN. 2-5 without Josh Allen in his career. Saleh is 2-2 the last 2 years vs him.

Mike McDaniel: EVEN 1-3 without Tua

John Harbargh: EVEN 3-8 last 3 years without Lamar

Zac Taylor: EDGE. 6-25-1 before Burrow. 5-5 last year with Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Joe Mixon.

Mike Tomlin: NONE. went 10-7 with Pickett, Trubinsky and Mason Rudolph. has done great for many years without a QB.

Kevin Stafanski: EDGE: 9-2 with Watson and Flacco. 2-4 without. 4-7 with Brissett in 2022. 8-9 with Baker playing 14 games in 2021.

Doug Pederson: EVEN: 18-16 in 2 years with Trevor. except for the SB he has a very unimpressive record. wins of 7,13,9,9,4,9,9

Shane Steichen: EDGE: not sure why he is even on this list. went 7-6 with the best backup who should be a starter. and 2-2 with Richardson who i was told is a very good QB.

DeMarco Ryans: EDGE: Saleh abused the ROTY for 91 yds zero TDs 54.8 RATE. he could not stop the worst QB in the NFL from getting 300yds and 2 TDs.

Andy Reid: EVEN: he has never not had a QB. McNair, Vick, Smith and Mahomes. 2-2 without Mahomes or Alex Smith. i got more from his Phila years if anyone needs more proof.

Antonio Peirce: INCOMPLETE: only coached 9 games (5-4). not enough data.

Jim Harbaugh: NONE: always had a QB and now with Herbert he always will. 

 

 

 

 

This is great.  Thanks for pulling together!

Emphasizes the importance having a QB has on winning!  Something we already knew but when you look at from this lens jumps out even more.

I’ll be rooting to be wrong on Saleh.  My own current belief is based on things that I believe are fundamental to strong leadership, winning culture and performance.  Just don’t see those in Saleh.  Who knows, maybe they are overstated in football?

I will point out that the data isn’t enough to prove Saleh is even w/ or better than certain coaches because we dont yet have the data set that shows what Saleh can do with a good to great QB.

We know he is not good enough to overcome poor QB.  Nor are most others.  

But the jury is still out if he can get his team to outperform their talent.  That is what the best coaches do:  integrate the players where 1+1 = 3.  Things like competitive culture, player development,optimizing strengths, hiding weaknesses, mismatch football, getting guys to fight for each other.

[TuscanyTile2]

25 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

But the jury is still out if he can get his team to outperform their talent.  That is what the best coaches do:  integrate the players where 1+1 = 3.  Things like competitive culture, player development,optimizing strengths, hiding weaknesses, mismatch football, getting guys to fight for each other.

This is it right here.

[Raideraholic]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

took me a while to do the research but here goes...

Sean McDermont: EVEN. 2-5 without Josh Allen in his career. Saleh is 2-2 the last 2 years vs him.

Mike McDaniel: EVEN 1-3 without Tua

John Harbargh: EVEN 3-8 last 3 years without Lamar

Zac Taylor: EDGE. 6-25-1 before Burrow. 5-5 last year with Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Joe Mixon.

Mike Tomlin: NONE. went 10-7 with Pickett, Trubinsky and Mason Rudolph. has done great for many years without a QB.

Kevin Stafanski: EDGE: 9-2 with Watson and Flacco. 2-4 without. 4-7 with Brissett in 2022. 8-9 with Baker playing 14 games in 2021.

Doug Pederson: EVEN: 18-16 in 2 years with Trevor. except for the SB he has a very unimpressive record. wins of 7,13,9,9,4,9,9

Shane Steichen: EDGE: not sure why he is even on this list. went 7-6 with the best backup who should be a starter. and 2-2 with Richardson who i was told is a very good QB.

DeMarco Ryans: EDGE: Saleh abused the ROTY for 91 yds zero TDs 54.8 RATE. he could not stop the worst QB in the NFL from getting 300yds and 2 TDs.

Andy Reid: EVEN: he has never not had a QB. McNair, Vick, Smith and Mahomes. 2-2 without Mahomes or Alex Smith. i got more from his Phila years if anyone needs more proof.

Antonio Peirce: INCOMPLETE: only coached 9 games (5-4). not enough data.

Jim Harbaugh: NONE: always had a QB and now with Herbert he always will. 

 

 

 

 

Antonio pierce record is incomplete can’t argue with that. ( need at least 20 games) But the fact is the Raiders had second best defense in all of football from the time when he took over from Josh McDaniel , to season end.   He along with Marvin Lewis , and defense coordinator Patrick Graham transformed this defense to another level .     Not to mention out coached Andy Reid when his defense kick Mahomes,  and the chiefs offense arse. ( in arrowhead- last team to beat them) 
 

   A pierce is known as player coach but he’s not afraid to make tough choices.   Marcus Peters all year his unwilling to tackle killed the defense . ( played so soft).     A pierce cut his arse a day after he again was unwilling to tackle - sent a message to the whole team .  ( was team leader) . Also took a chance on Cb Jack Jones  because he had long time relationship with the kid .( put his job on the line for the player ). Also A Pierce doesn’t claim to know everything , and  not afraid to lean on ex nfl coaches ( has a lot on his staff ) to help him with things he needs to know.

a pierce isn’t just a coach who just cares about the defense.    He is in control of everything ( not just worrying how the defense looks) .   He will let the coordinators do their job, but they are going to play what he wants to do on offense.   
 

Also his speech to the players was big reason Josh McDaniel was fired.   he told the players how their defense with the Giants kicked the undefeated Patriots arse.  j McDaniel supposedly chew out A pierce for saying anything bad about the patriots. When Davis found out he canned his butt. 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Antonio pierce record is incomplete can’t argue with that. ( need at least 20 games) But the fact is the Raiders had second best defense in all of football from the time when he took over from Josh McDaniel , to season end.   He along with Marvin Lewis , and defense coordinator Patrick Graham transformed this defense to another level .     Not to mention out coached Andy Reid when his defense kick Mahomes,  and the chiefs offense arse. ( in arrowhead- last team to beat them) 
 

   A pierce is known as player coach but he’s not afraid to make tough choices.   Marcus Peters all year his unwilling to tackle killed the defense . ( played so soft).     A pierce cut his arse a day after he again was unwilling to tackle - sent a message to the whole team .  ( was team leader) . Also took a chance on Cb Jack Jones  because he had long time relationship with the kid .( put his job on the line for the player ). Also A Pierce doesn’t claim to know everything , and  not afraid to lean on ex nfl coaches ( has a lot on his staff ) to help him with things he needs to know.

a pierce isn’t just a coach who just cares about the defense.    He is in control of everything ( not just worrying how the defense looks) .   He will let the coordinators do their job, but they are going to play what he wants to do on offense.   
 

Also his speech to the players was big reason Josh McDaniel was fired.   he told the players how their defense with the Giants kicked the undefeated Patriots arse.  j McDaniel supposedly chew out A pierce for saying anything bad about the patriots. When Davis found out he canned his butt. 

I was very impressed with the job AP did last year.  He took over midseason and in the middle of a week, IIRC.  I get the impressions he lets his OC and DC do a lot of the work but whatever was going on seemed to be working well.  I marked Saleh as "roughly equal" to AP but that could absolutely change this year (in AP's favor) if he keeps up what he did last year.  I get the feeling the players absolutely love playing for AP too.

[TuscanyTile2]

@Jet_Engine1 You voted Saleh has an edge over Andy Reid, John & Jim Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin?  Trolling?

[Bleedin Green]

9 hours ago, doitny said:

and Flacco was still better than Zach.

Zac Taylor was 6-25-1 his first 2 years. Saleh was 11-23. what happpend to them? i will tell you. one drafted Joe Burrow and the other Zach Wilson. 

just because he went to one SB doesnt mean he is good. there is no excuse to go 5-5 with a team that has Burrow, Chase, Higgens, Boyd and Joe Mixon. 

ok fine Richardson is fantastic ...ok? Garder Minshew is probably the best backup in the NFL. he could be a starter on half the teams in the NFL. saying his HC is good because he won games with him is a joke. he better win alot of games with him because Minshew is very good.

there is not one HC beside Mike Tomlin that you can prove that can win games with a QB as bad as Zach.

if you want to prove it to me find a HC who could win games with a QB as bad as Trevor Sieman. ....oh wait i know, Robert Saleh. he went 2-1 with him. even Sean Payton couldnt win games with that guy. he went 0-4 with him in N.O

 

All very true, it's simply that many around here have inexplicably decided JD's great at his job, despite him repeatedly showing otherwise throughout his career, with the lone exception of guys taken in the top 36 picks of 2022.  Therefore, it becomes a matter of finding others to blame for why this team hasn't accomplished anything on the watch of the one guy most directly responsible, and been here the longest.

I'm not certain Saleh is the answer, but to your point there's really been no clear evidence of any under-performance on his watch to date, considering how poorly the team's failures have continued to look elsewhere in their careers, for those select few who weren't immediately out of the league.  There's definitely no coach in NFL history who could have gotten a ring with this team, that's for certain.  It will at least be interesting to see how this year goes, assuming this entire offense made of glass can hold up at all.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Raideraholic said:

Also his speech to the players was big reason Josh McDaniel was fired.   he told the players how their defense with the Giants kicked the undefeated Patriots arse.  j McDaniel supposedly chew out A pierce for saying anything bad about the patriots. When Davis found out he canned his butt. 

Is that true?  I didn't know that!  Awesome.  

[doitny]

3 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Antonio pierce record is incomplete can’t argue with that. ( need at least 20 games) But the fact is the Raiders had second best defense in all of football from the time when he took over from Josh McDaniel , to season end.   He along with Marvin Lewis , and defense coordinator Patrick Graham transformed this defense to another level .     Not to mention out coached Andy Reid when his defense kick Mahomes,  and the chiefs offense arse. ( in arrowhead- last team to beat them) 
 

   A pierce is known as player coach but he’s not afraid to make tough choices.   Marcus Peters all year his unwilling to tackle killed the defense . ( played so soft).     A pierce cut his arse a day after he again was unwilling to tackle - sent a message to the whole team .  ( was team leader) . Also took a chance on Cb Jack Jones  because he had long time relationship with the kid .( put his job on the line for the player ). Also A Pierce doesn’t claim to know everything , and  not afraid to lean on ex nfl coaches ( has a lot on his staff ) to help him with things he needs to know.

a pierce isn’t just a coach who just cares about the defense.    He is in control of everything ( not just worrying how the defense looks) .   He will let the coordinators do their job, but they are going to play what he wants to do on offense.   
 

Also his speech to the players was big reason Josh McDaniel was fired.   he told the players how their defense with the Giants kicked the undefeated Patriots arse.  j McDaniel supposedly chew out A pierce for saying anything bad about the patriots. When Davis found out he canned his butt. 

im not a raiders fan so i will have to take your word for most of this. but this....

 

3 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

a pierce isn’t just a coach who just cares about the defense.    He is in control of everything ( not just worrying how the defense looks) .   He will let the coordinators do their job, but they are going to play what he wants to do on offense.  

you cant know this. not after 9 games. but nice try taking a shot of Saleh there.

like i said 9 games is too soon to tell about him. he got the usual bounce a new HC hired in mid season gets then went 3-5 the rest of the way. 

he is going to have the same problem as Saleh. the QB. yeah O Connell was better than Zach but thats not saying much. 10 games is too soon to know what he is but you guys have the 3rd or 4th best QB in that division. at least you were smart enough to get Minshew

Harbaugh is a good HC. and he has a way better QB than he had in S.F. that division is going to be real tuff for you. and A.P works for a guy with a quick trigger finger. 

be very interesting to see how the season goes for you.

 

[Jet_Engine1]

7 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

@Jet_Engine1 You voted Saleh has an edge over Andy Reid, John & Jim Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin?  Trolling?

[BP]

On 5/3/2024 at 6:21 PM, Bronx said:

Pederson should have being hired over Saleh. 

That would have been the smart choice. Jets=dumb

[BP]

8 hours ago, doitny said:

im not a raiders fan so i will have to take your word for most of this. but this....

 

you cant know this. not after 9 games. but nice try taking a shot of Saleh there.

like i said 9 games is too soon to tell about him. he got the usual bounce a new HC hired in mid season gets then went 3-5 the rest of the way. 

he is going to have the same problem as Saleh. the QB. yeah O Connell was better than Zach but thats not saying much. 10 games is too soon to know what he is but you guys have the 3rd or 4th best QB in that division. at least you were smart enough to get Minshew

Harbaugh is a good HC. and he has a way better QB than he had in S.F. that division is going to be real tuff for you. and A.P works for a guy with a quick trigger finger. 

be very interesting to see how the season goes for you.

 

Pierce (in his first game) completely outcoached Saleh in the raiders game last year. It was embarrassing. Did you watch it?

[doitny]

33 minutes ago, BP said:

Pierce (in his first game) completely outcoached Saleh in the raiders game last year. It was embarrassing. Did you watch it?

it was a tie game in the 4th that we lost by 4. please explain the embarrassing part? i didnt know you could be embarrassed losing by 4 points.

[JKlecko]

On 5/3/2024 at 6:21 PM, Bronx said:

Pederson should have being hired over Saleh. 

No, he couldn't.  Saleh was hired in 2021 and Pederson didn't become free and then was hired by the Jaguars in 2022.

Brian Daboll should have been the hire over Saleh.  He had helped fix Allen's accuracy and had developed several other young QBs.  With the Jets drafting a QB (Zach Wilson), a former OC should have been hired as the HC, so the offense would have been the focus and the offense built around what the QB did well.

[BP]

15 minutes ago, doitny said:

it was a tie game in the 4th that we lost by 4. please explain the embarrassing part? i didnt know you could be embarrassed losing by 4 points.

So you didn’t watch the game? I guess that’s why you’re so confused about the embarrassing part. Go watch the replay, it’s self explanatory 

[WhartonJet]

Just seeing this list makes me realize the amount of coaching talent in the AFC.  Nearly every single name on this list would be an upgrade over Saleh which is saying something. 

Coaching will be a reason we don’t compete with the top teams in the conference this year

[JKlecko]

On 5/3/2024 at 7:22 PM, RedBeardedSavage said:

At some point we have to accept that we simply do not know what Robert Saleh is as a coach. 

When guys like Gardiner Minshew, Jacoby Brissett and the Lady Stoneheart era of Joe Flacco can routinely outplay Zach Wilson, how do we judge the coach of a Zach Wilson lead team?

He was saddled not with the 32nd quarterback in the league, but probably the 40th.

And a bottom three offensive line. 

So I have no idea if Saleh is the next Mike Tomlin or Saleh is the next Brandon Staley.

We’ll find out this year. 

I totally disagree.  We already know that Saleh sucks.  He is partially responsible for how poorly Zach played.  He hired Lafleur and then Hackett.  He's too conservative.  He didn't have the offense designed around Wilson.  He didn't kick Hackett's ass last season after Rodgers went down and Hackett did nothing to help Zach.  Saleh is just a cliché machine.

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

I totally disagree.  We already know that Saleh sucks.  He is partially responsible for how poorly Zach played.  He hired Lafleur and then Hackett.  He's too conservative.  He didn't have the offense designed around Wilson.  He didn't kick Hackett's ass last season after Rodgers went down and Hackett did nothing to help Zach.  Saleh is just a cliché machine.

Hackett sucks, but he was hired so we could convince Rodgers to come here.

Lafleur, I mean, I don't even know if he's bad - he's in the same category as Saleh for me.

I think the core of our disagreement is about Zach - IMO, He can't see the field, he has no pocket presence and he oscillates between gun-shy and trigger-happy. I see no calm, poise or vision in his game. 

I'd cite Mike White as proof.

He's nowhere near as physically gifted as Zach Wilson and yet he possesses all the 'soft skills' in a quarterback that Zach does not. In the same Lafleur offense, behind the same terrible offensive line and, at least during the '22 season if I remember correctly, without Breece Hall, he was consistently better. 

[doitny]

47 minutes ago, BP said:

So you didn’t watch the game? I guess that’s why you’re so confused about the embarrassing part. Go watch the replay, it’s self explanatory 

if you cant tell me i guess you forgot the game too. 

[Barry McCockinner]

Honestly if I give any of those coaches Zach Wilson as their starting QB, Andy Reid is the only one I wouldn't be shocked he figured out how to run a functional offense.

Saleh hasn't proven much of anything other than being a good defensive coordinator. I think he and the rest of the CS are pretty clueless about offensive personnel. But the anchor that is Zach Wilson cannot be under stated.

[BP]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

if you cant tell me i guess you forgot the game too. 

Ok, I’ll explain it to you. The Jets played to kick field goals and the raiders didn’t. The raiders at least tried to win the game . Pierce was coaching his first game, and won it by playing to win the game. Not play not to lose like Saleh did. Saleh was out coached by a one game rookie who had his own sh*tty qb.

[JKlecko]

2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Hackett sucks, but he was hired so we could convince Rodgers to come here.

Lafleur, I mean, I don't even know if he's bad - he's in the same category as Saleh for me.

I think the core of our disagreement is about Zach - IMO, He can't see the field, he has no pocket presence and he oscillates between gun-shy and trigger-happy. I see no calm, poise or vision in his game. 

I'd cite Mike White as proof.

He's nowhere near as physically gifted as Zach Wilson and yet he possesses all the 'soft skills' in a quarterback that Zach does not. In the same Lafleur offense, behind the same terrible offensive line and, at least during the '22 season if I remember correctly, without Breece Hall, he was consistently better. 

I'm not disputing how poorly Zach played and the flaws he has.  Zach might have been able to learn and develop those things if he had not been thrown to the wolves his rookie season, had competent coaching, an offense that was conducive to his skill set, and a veteran QB to mentor him.  He was started immediately with the Jets knowing he had footwork issues, and hadn't developed that poise in the pocket yet.  You're wrong in your statement that Zach can't see the field.  He can very well at times.  He's inconsistent at it.  He was obviously having to think too much even this last year.  Players can't play their best, their fastest, and their natural ability can't shine through when they're having to think too much.  In the offense he played in at BYU, he wasn't really a pocket QB.  He was a bit of a gunslinger. 

The Jets tried to make him into a pocket QB and game manager, the total opposite of how he had played at BYU and opposite of his skillset, natural talent, and approach to playing QB.  Saleh hired his best friend's little brother who had never called plays, developed a QB, or been an OC before when he knew the Jets were drafting a QB.  That was totally foolish.  They jerked Zach around with style of play, benching him, then having him play again.  All of that goes on Saleh.

Regardless, Zach is gone, and Saleh not once in his career as a HC has he outcoached the opposing HC.  Saleh is too rigid, too conservative, and doesn't put players in the best situation to succeed.  Sauce is a perfect example.  Here's a guy that excels in man coverage, and Saleh has forced him to play strictly zone for the last 2 years.  Sauce is so good that he still made All Pro both seasons, but the opposing teams' top WR was still able to rack up yardage and TDs, and that cost the Jets games, where if Sauce had taken the top WR one-on-one, things could have been very different. Saleh has not been involved in managing the overall team's play, supervised the play calling and game planning and it shows.  The Jets abandon things when they're working, and they often try to go against what the other team's strongest points are rather than taking what the other team gives them.  That's all on Saleh.  The bottom line rests with him.

[bicketybam]

1 hour ago, JKlecko said:

I'm not disputing how poorly Zach played and the flaws he has.  Zach might have been able to learn and develop those things if he had not been thrown to the wolves his rookie season, had competent coaching, an offense that was conducive to his skill set, and a veteran QB to mentor him.  He was started immediately with the Jets knowing he had footwork issues, and hadn't developed that poise in the pocket yet.  You're wrong in your statement that Zach can't see the field.  He can very well at times.  He's inconsistent at it.  He was obviously having to think too much even this last year.  Players can't play their best, their fastest, and their natural ability can't shine through when they're having to think too much.  In the offense he played in at BYU, he wasn't really a pocket QB.  He was a bit of a gunslinger. 

The Jets tried to make him into a pocket QB and game manager, the total opposite of how he had played at BYU and opposite of his skillset, natural talent, and approach to playing QB.  Saleh hired his best friend's little brother who had never called plays, developed a QB, or been an OC before when he knew the Jets were drafting a QB.  That was totally foolish.  They jerked Zach around with style of play, benching him, then having him play again.  All of that goes on Saleh.

Regardless, Zach is gone, and Saleh not once in his career as a HC has he outcoached the opposing HC.  Saleh is too rigid, too conservative, and doesn't put players in the best situation to succeed.  Sauce is a perfect example.  Here's a guy that excels in man coverage, and Saleh has forced him to play strictly zone for the last 2 years.  Sauce is so good that he still made All Pro both seasons, but the opposing teams' top WR was still able to rack up yardage and TDs, and that cost the Jets games, where if Sauce had taken the top WR one-on-one, things could have been very different. Saleh has not been involved in managing the overall team's play, supervised the play calling and game planning and it shows.  The Jets abandon things when they're working, and they often try to go against what the other team's strongest points are rather than taking what the other team gives them.  That's all on Saleh.  The bottom line rests with him.

Any win the Jets recorded with Zach Wilson as the QB is an example of him out coaching the opposition. He was the worst rated QB in all of football and the Jets beat teams like Buffalo and Philadelphia. Do you have any idea of how hard that is to do with a QB as terrible as Wilson?? 

By the way, didn't you say you were going to follow Wilson to his next team and root for them?

[jamesr]

Pierce (in his first game) completely outcoached Saleh in the raiders game last year. It was embarrassing. Did you watch it?

Does the same logic apply to how Saleh completely outcoached Ryans in the Texans game last year?

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[doitny]

5 hours ago, BP said:

Ok, I’ll explain it to you. The Jets played to kick field goals and the raiders didn’t. The raiders at least tried to win the game . Pierce was coaching his first game, and won it by playing to win the game. Not play not to lose like Saleh did. Saleh was out coached by a one game rookie who had his own sh*tty qb.

i took a look at the box score. im guessing your talking about the Raiders going for it on 4th down twice and Saleh didnt.

there was one punt at midfield with us up 9-3 before the half. 4th and 3 on our 48 yd line. the punt was a touchback with 1:02 left on the clock.

on 3rd and 10 at the Jets 37 the guy you claim was trying to win the game ran it for one yard on 3rd and 10 with 13 seconds left. had to kick a 54 yd FG. plenty of time left to throw it downfield to make it a closer FG than 54 yds.

1st qt down 3-0 A.P kicks a FG on 4th and 1 at the Jets 22. thats deep in our territory, should have went for it there if he is trying to win the game?

7:18 left in the 2nd the Jets had 4th and 1 on their own 38. you dont go for it there. your gifting them points if you dont make it.

thats it from what i can see. the other 4th downs were more than 10 yds or real deep in our zone. and we passed (41) more than we ran (21). 

if anything running it on 3rd and 10 with 13 seconds left is a guy trying to win on FGs. throw a screen to Jacobs or something to Adams to try to get more yds or even maybe they break one for 37 yd TD.

EDITED:

i just watched the highlights and @bla bla bla all Zachs throws. couldnt find the whole game and thanks alot for making me watch that heartbreaking loss again. Zach stepping OOB costing us a TD, Jacobs big run than fumbles OOB. GW missing a wide open Lazzard. tough one to watch.

i though maybe you are talking about play selection. there was that 3rd and goal at the 10 that was tipped going short to MC but i looked at it a few times and i think that was Zach rushing it with the DL coming in and not what Saleh called. 

sorry pal i just dont see Saleh playing for FGs and A.P trying to win the game. i tried, did the research and watch 2 videos but i dont see it.

 

 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

Does the same logic apply to how Saleh completely outcoached Ryans in the Texans game last year?

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now that was an outcoaching. to get blown out like that and have your ROTY QB get shut down. when Saleh talks about embarring QBs thats exhibit A.

worst game by far of his career.

and maybe Zachs best game ever.