OTAs 2024, Days 1-3

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

Like I said, worst case, somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 starts if he’s not the opening day starter. He’ll finish the season as one of the Jets top five receivers in both receptions and yards. I’m not dying on the opening day starter hill, although I’ll be disappointed if Corley isn’t the opening day starter (much like I was disappointed that Tippmann wasn’t the opening day starter last year). 
 
Breece was carrying the load by week four. Corley won’t do much -if any- worse than that from the slot as a rookie. 

You shouldnt be disappointed.  It's an unrealistic expectation.  I hope you're right and he does become a starter this season, that would be awesome, he's an exciting player but again, it's just unlikely, not because Corley isnt good but because that's what the odds tell you and that doesnt mean he isnt a full time starter, big contributor next year and many years to follow. 

You cant really compare Hall and Corley.  RB is totally different.  The learning curve is fractional for a RB and Breece was a work horse coming from a Power 5, not a manufactured touch slot WR playing nobodies at Western Kentucky in a wonky system.  And if you want to play the odds games, 2nd RD RB's do start in the NFL immediately and do contribute more quickly.  3rd RD WR's, dont start in the NFL right away and have a steeper learning curve and longer development.  And that's ok, it doesnt mean Corley sucks or wont be great, it's just like, life man.  

 

[slats]

1 minute ago, JustInFudge said:

3rd WR's, dont start in the NFL right away and have steep learning curve and longer development.  And that's ok, it doesnt mean Corley sucks or wont be great, it's just like, life man. 

You’re very hung up on this whole “third round” thing. He was the very first pick of the third round. If Douglas had managed a trade for a single pick earlier, would he be more likely to start because then he would’ve been a second rounder? 
 
There’s not a massive learning curve for slot receivers. That’s how an UDFA managed to start a few games there for the Jets as a rookie. 

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

This coaching staff has already been embarrassed by benching breece and wilson initially in favor of veterans.  You’d think they learned something.

Regarding Corley, it’s easier (in theory for a competent OC and staff) to scheme at least a few plays where they’re throwing him the ball at the LOS opening day, then relying on him to learn the wr route tree for each position before they trust him.  

I dont think "benching" is the right word because both played like 40/45% of the snaps and were involved but yeah, Hall played a back seat to Carter and ironically, Moore played most snaps at WR that game, even over Corey Davis, which in retrospect is bogus.

Again, I'm not saying Corley doesnt play.  I just think he has a very specific limited role as he develops and that's fine.  This isnt a knock on Corley, it's just being realistic.

 

[Jet Nut]

56 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

You keep saying this like it matters.  It doesnt.  They took a player10th overall to sit all year unless of injury.  lmfao.  So why would they treat a third rounder differently?  

Because one is a WR the other is a LT and because of the way the roster is put together.  
 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

You’re very hung up on this whole “third round” thing. He was the very first pick of the third round. If Douglas had managed a trade for a single pick earlier, would he be more likely to start because then he would’ve been a second rounder? 
 
There’s not a massive learning curve for slot receivers. That’s how an UDFA managed to start a few games there for the Jets as a rookie. 

The question is, if williams is healthy, you have him, wilson, maybe Lazard, veteran TEs and a stud rb.  So with all of that, Corley’s role initially should be limited.  But I’m hoping they actually scheme plays for him.  

[HighPitch]

23 hours ago, PS17 said:

I’m not getting duped again. Miss me with the good vibes in May. Make it through a couple games and then perhaps I’ll believe. 

Thats where im at.

no more practice camp texts to my buddies bragging about some lazer td throw

[Jethead]

If Willams is able to go Day1, he, Wilson and Lazard will start. If Williams isn't finished with his rehab, Lazard will be WR 2 and Corley and Gipson will duke it out for the slot. IMO, 50/50 either way.

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, Jethead said:

If Willams is able to go Day1, he, Wilson and Lazard will start. If Williams isn't finished with his rehab, Lazard will be WR 2 and Corley and Gipson will duke it out for the slot. IMO, 50/50 either way.

Seems like too much wr power if they drafted rome.  

[JustInFudge]

23 minutes ago, slats said:

You’re very hung up on this whole “third round” thing. He was the very first pick of the third round. If Douglas had managed a trade for a single pick earlier, would he be more likely to start because then he would’ve been a second rounder? 
 
There’s not a massive learning curve for slot receivers. That’s how an UDFA managed to start a few games there for the Jets as a rookie. 

They could have wanted him at 10 for all I care but what round was he draft in?   The 3rd RD?  Ok.  Check. Got it.  So yeah, back to the point, as I said, look at the odds here.  And yes, late round 2nd round picks, similarly have a steep learning curve and dont typically hit the ground running.  Personally,  I think once you're drafting out of the top 50, unless it's OL, LB, S or something like that, you're doing incredible work to find an opening day starter. 

Yes, there is a huge learning curve for slot WR's.  Everything about the position in college vs. pros is completely and totally different from who defends them, to how they are defended, to having to attack the middle of an NFL field vs. a college field.  And in Corley's case, I dont know how to explain the learning curve to you anymore than I already have but I implore you to go watch Western Kentucky and see the system they ran, what they asked Corley to do and the absolutely laughable level of comp, to better understand, this is not going to be instant. 

The UDFA started 3 games out of necessity toward the end of the season.  And how did he perform?  lol    1 good game?  1 game w/ more the 2 catches?  Lol  21 catches on the season, idk, sounds like he probably had.......a big learning curve. 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Because one is a WR the other is a LT and because of the way the roster is put together.  
 

[Bowles Movement]

1 hour ago, JKlecko said:

Yes, top WRs get more money than top LTs, but that doesn't mean that their position is more valuable.  A team can get by without a stud WR if they have a very good-great QB, very good-great OL, at least a very good rushing attack, and a group of solid (good to very good) WRs and TEs.  The opposite is not true, as we have seen with the Jets time and again.  When your starting QB doesn't have time to find WRs or is injured on the sideline, it doesn't matter one whit how great one's top WR or WRs are.

Id argue that exactly what it means.

Id also argue that if the WRs cannot separate from the DBs, it doesnt matter how well the OL block for the QB.   You need both- its not an either/or.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, JKlecko said:

I disagree.  WRs are a playmaking position that's why they get paid more than LTs, which is a non-glamour, grunt-work type position.  The top positions are QB, LT and Edge, CB, then WR. 

This is patently false.  Nobody gives a **** about glamour.  If the position was more likely to contribute to wins they would be getting paid more.  Why the **** would CB be more important than WR? 

[#27TheDominator]

45 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The question is, if williams is healthy, you have him, wilson, maybe Lazard, veteran TEs and a stud rb.  So with all of that, Corley’s role initially should be limited.  But I’m hoping they actually scheme plays for him.  

Agreed.  I don't expect Corley to see a huge snap count, but I would like him to get a reasonable amount of touches. 

[Alka]

2 hours ago, JKlecko said:

There's a perfectly goo reason to let Williams walk.  For starters, he may not play all that well this season because he isn't fullly recovered from the injury and surgery.  Secondly, the Jets will have 11 starters and 6 key backups become FAs in 2025, as well as a slew of bottom of the roster players.  Included in those 11 starters are two-thirds of their great CB corps, Reed and MC II.  Then G. Wilson, Sauce, JJ and Breece need to be extended/locked up.  The cap is going to be very tight again next year, and the chances are that the Jets could lose quite a few of their own players.  They should take priority over an older, oft-injured WR.  They could easily draft a replacement for Williams in the 2025 draft.

Look, if he doesn't play all that well, then he is toast.  But, when healthy, he is elite, and I think he is only 29 years old.  If he plays up to his capability, and wants to return, then needs special consideration.  I think we will just need to play it out, and things should fall in place by the end of the season.  To me, Wilson, Sauce and Breece are must to be extended.  Let's see how the others play this season.

[T0mShane]

52 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The question is, if williams is healthy, you have him, wilson, maybe Lazard, veteran TEs and a stud rb.  So with all of that, Corley’s role initially should be limited.  But I’m hoping they actually scheme plays for him.  

Rodgers’ history is that he spams his WR1 with 50% target share, then his back gets 20%, and the other 30% of targets get evenly distributed among the other guys. Guessing that this factored in to their decision making when they were choosing between Bowers and Fashanu—why burn pick ten on a guy who’s getting table scraps anyway? 

[bonkertons]

42 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

They could have wanted him at 10 for all I care but what round was he draft in?   The 3rd RD?  Ok.  Check. Got it.  So yeah, back to the point, as I said, look at the odds here.  And yes, late round 2nd round picks, similarly have a steep learning curve and dont typically hit the ground running.  Personally,  I think once you're drafting out of the top 50, unless it's OL, LB, S or something like that, you're doing incredible work to find an opening day starter. 

Yes, there is a huge learning curve for slot WR's.  Everything about the position in college vs. pros is completely and totally different from who defends them, to how they are defended, to having to attack the middle of an NFL field vs. a college field.  And in Corley's case, I dont know how to explain the learning curve to you anymore than I already have but I implore you to go watch Western Kentucky and see the system they ran, what they asked Corley to do and the absolutely laughable level of comp, to better understand, this is not going to be instant. 

The UDFA started 3 games out of necessity toward the end of the season.  And how did he perform?  lol    1 good game?  1 game w/ more the 2 catches?  Lol  21 catches on the season, idk, sounds like he probably had.......a big learning curve. 

 

 

Are we really comparing a UDFA to the first pick in the 3rd round?  What are we even doing here guys?  Also the little "lol"s in between every one of your totally awesome points...I don't think it's giving you the cool edgy vibe that you think it is.

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Rodgers’ history is that he spams his WR1 with 50% target share, then his back gets 20%, and the other 30% of targets get evenly distributed among the other guys. Guessing that this factored in to their decision making when they were choosing between Bowers and Fashanu—why burn pick ten on a guy who’s getting table scraps anyway? 

That said, if they were able to snag Odunze, he becomes your X and Garrett Wilson spends half his snaps cooking up nickel CBs, which would have been sweet. 

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, Alka said:

Look, if he doesn't play all that well, then he is toast.  But, when healthy, he is elite, and I think he is only 29 years old.  If he plays up to his capability, and wants to return, then needs special consideration.  I think we will just need to play it out, and things should fall in place by the end of the season.  To me, Wilson, Sauce and Breece are must to be extended.  Let's see how the others play this season.

I think elite is kind of a stretch.  He has had two 1,000 yard seasons and 4,800 in 7 years.  He will be 30 before week 5.   I guess the argument is that he is never healthy and he may have been having his best season when he got hurt.  I would not rule him out, but I am not too worried about him for 2025 either.  Wilson, Sauce and Breece are under contract for 2024 and 2025.  Wilson and Sauce will have the 5th year option picked up.  I don't see any reason to extend them now.  If we get a good deal, fine.  Breece will be a FA before 2026, but I still don't see the rush.  RBs are among the best players to tag.  MC2, Reed, Tyron Smith and Moses are the ones to think about now.  Echols is less important and AVT has another year, but might be worthy of extending.  They will have to consider the 5th year option for JJ coming up and he will command a big chunk, might be better to extend and spread it out.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think elite is kind of a stretch.  He has had two 1,000 yard seasons and 4,800 in 7 years.  He will be 30 before week 5.   I guess the argument is that he is never healthy and he may have been having his best season when he got hurt.  I would not rule him out, but I am not too worried about him for 2025 either.  Wilson, Sauce and Breece are under contract for 2024 and 2025.  Wilson and Sauce will have the 5th year option picked up.  I don't see any reason to extend them now.  If we get a good deal, fine.  Breece will be a FA before 2026, but I still don't see the rush.  RBs are among the best players to tag.  MC2, Reed, Tyron Smith and Moses are the ones to think about now.  Echols is less important and AVT has another year, but might be worthy of extending.  They will have to consider the 5th year option for JJ coming up and he will command a big chunk, might be better to extend and spread it out.

Befuddling that they haven’t brought in a viable young QB as Rodgers insurance yet. The guy is already talking about being swept out after the season if things go poorly, and Douglas is working entirely without a net at future QB and a pack of huge extensions upcoming, which precludes bringing in a free agent bridge guy. 

[Guilhermezmc]

damn corley already lost his job to a UDFA?

[Jethead]

16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think elite is kind of a stretch.  He has had two 1,000 yard seasons and 4,800 in 7 years.  He will be 30 before week 5.   I guess the argument is that he is never healthy and he may have been having his best season when he got hurt.  I would not rule him out, but I am not too worried about him for 2025 either.  Wilson, Sauce and Breece are under contract for 2024 and 2025.  Wilson and Sauce will have the 5th year option picked up.  I don't see any reason to extend them now.  If we get a good deal, fine.  Breece will be a FA before 2026, but I still don't see the rush.  RBs are among the best players to tag.  MC2, Reed, Tyron Smith and Moses are the ones to think about now.  Echols is less important and AVT has another year, but might be worthy of extending.  They will have to consider the 5th year option for JJ coming up and he will command a big chunk, might be better to extend and spread it out.

Well argued. So why on earth would you fire the GM who created such a first world problem! Thanks JD!

[Augustiniak]

45 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That said, if they were able to snag Odunze, he becomes your X and Garrett Wilson spends half his snaps cooking up nickel CBs, which would have been sweet. 

Yet on day 3 they loaded up on more than 500 lbs of running backs.  That tells you they’re not throwing it 35x unless they’re losing. Big.  So reverting back to draft strategy, I’m still surprised if plan A was rome, given that they just acquired williams, had wilson, Lazard, any other wrs, veteran TEs and breece.  The plan is to run it a lot, clearly.  The fashanu pick makes so much sense on so many levels.  Rome seems like a luxury pick by comparision. 

[Joe W. Namath]

33 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

damn corley already lost his job to a UDFA?

He hasnt had a job to lose.

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Befuddling that they haven’t brought in a viable young QB as Rodgers insurance yet. The guy is already talking about being swept out after the season if things go poorly, and Douglas is working entirely without a net at future QB and a pack of huge extensions upcoming, which precludes bringing in a free agent bridge guy. 

I think that is because despite some of the chatter to the contrary, the "we" Rodgers mentioned being swept out includes Douglas and Saleh.  They are either golden or all gone.  There is no in between. 

Besides, if your future QB is worth a nickel, he is your current QB.  Future QB is a wisp of smoke that fans place years of hope on.  I do agree that Travis seems a curious choice for the bottom of the roster.  Isn't he kind of an older, small, chicken armed runner?  Not exactly the guy you want to "develop" especially off an injury that will hamper his running.  I guess stranger things have happened.  

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think that is because despite some of the chatter to the contrary, the "we" Rodgers mentioned being swept out includes Douglas and Saleh.  They are either golden or all gone.  There is not in between. 

Besides, if you future QB is worth a nickel, he is your current QB.  Future QB is a wisp of smoke that fans place years of hope on.  I do agree that Travis seems a curious choice for the bottom of the roster.  Isn't he kind of an older, small, chicken armed runner?  Not exactly the guy you want to "develop" especially off an injury that will hamper his running.  I guess stranger things have happened.  

He too is a placeholder for the qb that someone drafts next year.  I would rather have fashanu than a qb.

[slimjasi]

3 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

We couldnt disagree further.  I do find it ironic though, that everything you said wasnt going to happen, is happening in their very first gathering, you can use the Corley just got the playbook excuse all you want as you claim he doesnt have a learning curve, lol but he's catching passes from Tyrod Taylor during meaningless practices.  

I'd venture to say there is 0% chance they're trusting a rookie in that spot on opening day in that environment.  Rodgers hasnt played ball in a year, I'm quite confident he'll want to throw to his favorite teammate of all time that night as he settles in and not some young kid who he cant trust to be in the right place at the right time.  Wilson, Williams, Lazard - is the ideal WR set.  Veterans, w/ size, speed, blocking and they're interchangeable.  They can all line up wide or in the slot.  They'll want to play ball control on the road, and that's the squad that can help that do it the best. 

I also think it's odd, when were discussing Bowers, that you didnt trust Hackett to be able to get him the ball...you literally were saying, how are we going to get this short small-ish dude the ball, how does his game translate, what's he going to do in the NFL, how does this help the team and nobody his size succeeds!!!!  And yet, you dont have the same concern for literally identical players per your scouting report, who is considerably smaller and only slightly faster and played Accountants, not future NFL players but I digress.  I guess things fit narratives when necessary. 

And also, Top 5 receptions could legit be like 20 catches for 300 yards.

FWIW, I'd expect both Corley and Gipson to get a significant number of touches in this offense. The coaches seem to like Gipson more than many of the fans do. Plenty of screens, drags, and Gos to go around. 

[slimjasi]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

15 for 15?  3 TDs? 0 INTs?
On the same birthday? 

I don't remember stats or anything - I just remember people making a big deal out of the fact that he was perfect, or near perfect. He also had a couple of supposedly great practices in a row around that time. 

 

 

[slimjasi]

4 hours ago, JKlecko said:

The bolded is why I think most GMs are dolts. WR isn't nearly as important a position as LT.  The Jets had a glaring need at LT going forward, and they already have a #1 WR in G. Wilson.  They wouldn't have been able to afford to pay both Wilson and Odunze if Odunze pans out.  The Jets' OL has been a disaster for most of the last 5+ years. It has undermined the team's success time and time again, and to consider taking a WR in a great OT draft like this, is a fireable offense imo.  Even with the depth in this draft class.  The chances are that they wouldn't have been able to get an OT in the 3rd round that could help them this year, and quite likely never would.

While I wanted Odunze at the time (I'm always a sucker for the WRsO, I think that last sentence is the key. 

There is a much better chance that Fashanu and Corley are a better combo than Odunze and whichever 3rd round OT they settled for. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

3 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

I actually disagree, primarily because of what I'm seeing here

If Rodgers already trusts Gipson to be in the right place so much that he's comfortable throwing him no-look 40 yarders, Gipson is definitely in position to keep his starting role at least through the beginning of the season, and possibly longer

 

 

Let’s relax. It’s day 2 of OTAs. He’s throwing to the whole depth chart right now. He completed a pass to Valladay at RB for his first pass. Means just about nothing. 

[Joe W. Namath]

I remember last year this board telling us rodgers hates rookie receivers.  Now all the sudden a 3rd round wr is going to be a huge part of the offense.

Too funny….
 

[Jet Nut]

20 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I don't remember stats or anything - I just remember people making a big deal out of the fact that he was perfect, or near perfect. He also had a couple of supposedly great practices in a row around that time. 

 

 

He never was 15 for 15 or perfect for that many attempts.  Unfortunately 

[56mehl56]

On 5/21/2024 at 1:24 PM, #27TheDominator said:

 

Why?  Are you that upset over losing Jordan Whitehead and Adrian Amos?  I think they plan to play some of the corners as safeties.  Their LB are basically what we consider box safeties anyway.  If they feel they need another body, there is a literal metric sh*t ton of free agent safeties still available: -I don't think Whitehead or Justin Simmons signed yet.  Kamren Curl is a guy people were pointing to from Washington is still out there, Josh Johnson (not the QB) and older dudes like Tashaun Gipson, Quandre Diggs, Micah Hyde. 

They could still bring back Whitehead and Adrian Amos.  There are a few things at work.  I think it is a devalued position, they like what they have and that they will probably be rolling a bunch of guys currently listed as corners there.  Joyner was a tweener S/slot CB - no reason that Stiggers, Echols or JBC couldn't fill that role.  There is also the possibility that they have lowball offers out to some of the free agents, or intend to.  Douglas has done that a bunch of times - ending up with Moses and Kwon Alexander, missing on Ogunjobi and Reiff among the names I remember.

EDIT:  I fogot Whitehead signed with Tampa.  I believe the rest are stll FA as of May 21.  Ulbrich says he is moving FA CB pickup Isaiah Oliver to safety.

I was gonna say don't count out JBC yet , last season was derailed by injury. I have high hopes for him this season. 

[T0mShane]

53 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Yet on day 3 they loaded up on more than 500 lbs of running backs.  That tells you they’re not throwing it 35x unless they’re losing. Big.  So reverting back to draft strategy, I’m still surprised if plan A was rome, given that they just acquired williams, had wilson, Lazard, any other wrs, veteran TEs and breece.  The plan is to run it a lot, clearly.  The fashanu pick makes so much sense on so many levels.  Rome seems like a luxury pick by comparision. 

Even if they run the wing-T, the passing game is going to have to approach 4,000 yards of production, and they absolutely needed more guys who could help with that. Guys like Lazard and Gipson are ultra-JAG, and Mike Williams is a hope and a prayer. In the scenario where they switch to a run-centric, Titans scheme, it’s worth noting that Fashanu is supposedly something of a liability in the run game. Iirc, PFF had the differential between his run block grade and pass block grade as the largest they’ve ever recorded in a first rounder. 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Are we really comparing a UDFA to the first pick in the 3rd round?  What are we even doing here guys?  Also the little "lol"s in between every one of your totally awesome points...I don't think it's giving you the cool edgy vibe that you think it is.

I didnt make this comparison, simply replying to someone who did. 

I have 93k poste on a Jets message board, you think cool and edgy is my vibe?  I'm flattered! 

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Even if they run the wing-T, the passing game is going to have to approach 4,000 yards of production, and they absolutely needed more guys who could help with that. Guys like Lazard and Gipson are ultra-JAG, and Mike Williams is a hope and a prayer. In the scenario where they switch to a run-centric, Titans scheme, it’s worth noting that Fashanu is supposedly something of a liability in the run game. Iirc, PFF had the differential between his run block grade and pass block grade as the largest they’ve ever recorded in a first rounder. 

I think they realize they can’t have rodgers sitting back there while opposing defenses count to 7 Mississippi.  So drafting a guy like Corley, who is a pure dumpoff option, makes a lot of sense for a qb they don’t want to get hit.  Even the 49ers have a guy like that.  

We all know fashanu didn’t get drafted b/c of his run blocking, he’s like brick in that regard.  He will learn enough technique to get his body in position.  But you can’t teach pass blocking like that.  You either have the feet or you don’t.