Hassan Reddick Holding Out, Requests Trade

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, chirorob said:

i agree with a lot of what you said,  but the contracts are slotted because veterans got tired of rookies being the highest paid players in the game.  Things like Vernon Davis signing his rookie contract and becoming the highest paid TE of all time didn't sit well with guys who had 6 years and multiple pro bowls.

There is a pool of money for contracts, the more rookies get (many of whom bust) the less there is for vets with 3+ years in the league.

I understand this, but the "pool of money" is based on an agreement made when Corley and Lamb were not a party.  I think it's kind of a crock of sh*t when it comes down to it and is based on the TV deal.  There is still plenty of money that is made by the owners on sh*t that Shane mentioned like concessions and parking.   I think they said the Garden made an extra million pure profit for every home playoff game back in around the turn of the century.  Can you imagine what MetLife rakes per game?

The nature of the NFL lends itself to owners ******* the players.  They are less visible with the helmets, but even know that minor guys are huge stars, their careers are very short and most are replaceable, so when it comes time to vote on a CBA why would the Spencer Paysinger's of the world want to walk out and get screwed out of a year of salary for a couple of peanuts extra. Meanwhile we whine that teams can't afford their QBs - because their careers are longer, they are more visible and more important.  

The vets will drive the agreement.  That is why you are seeing clauses like the bigger practice squads and the softening of the rules for older players being on them.  Kids risking CTE and deciding that they want to play football and make money ages before those agreements are made and for every one that makes it 1,000 + don't.  Yeah, they're not soldiers, but that doesn't mean they are not getting screwed.

I get why the CBA is constructed the way that it is.  It is done primarily for my benefit.  I get to watch the game, my team has some continuity and not tons of holdouts, but I am not going to bitch if some players want a scratch out a few dollars more.  If Reddick wants to retire like Shaq Barrett?  I get it. 

Some of these guys act like I am complaining the players are not getting enough money.  I don't think that is necessarily true, but each one of them has a right to fight to earn the most they can.  The fact there is a rookie scale, slotted salaries and 5th year options does not mean they should just roll over and say - that's it.  I'll take what they give me.  Let the agent earn his 3%.  

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Players are voluntary gladiators ... This is not a new concept ...

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Correct.  And since we haven’t had a military draft in a while it would seem the military is made up of volunteer gladiators who get paid a lot less, mostly because the wealthy deemed it so.  But f**k the players right?

[ARodJetsFan]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No one is “feeling bad” for the players.  We’re stating the reality of the situation, and in turn you’re calling players greedy while seemingly defending the ones who create the inequitable pay systems in the first place:  IE if the players are greedy that means you’re ok with the owners getting more money - there’s no alternative option here.  Players getting less don’t mean the military vets get more.  

You’re just not seeing the big picture at all in this.  

Incorrect.

You're stating your perception of reality.

Big difference.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

You're stating your perception of reality.

Big difference.

What am I wrong about?  Is it not reality to state that a private industry employee should not be viewed through the same prism as a public sector worker, and to state that a person’s salary difference in these 2 areas is not the same as assessing his worth to society?

And are you also under the impression that billionaires do not ultimately make the rules in this country, including ones that impact inequitable pay?  Because that must be a fun fairy tale reality to live in and I want in.  

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Incorrect.

You're stating your perception of reality.

Big difference.

You literally complained about Corley not signing his rookie deal because it was "all worked out" without knowing the reason that he didn't sign.  He was at voluntary camp without a contract, by the way.

[Dunnie]

Correct.  And since we haven’t had a military draft in a while it would seem the military is made up of volunteer gladiators who get paid a lot less, mostly because the wealthy deemed it so.  But f**k the players right?

I think players are closer to stuntmen than soldiers and police officers .. but hey what do I know ... Right ?

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[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Dunnie said:

I think players are closer to stuntmen than soldiers and police officers .. but hey what do I know ... Right ?

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I’d agree to that assessment.  Stuntmen get paid handsomely and can get killed in their line of work or shorten their lifespans but can also leave it at any time.  NFL players are similar in that way.  

[Scott Dierking]

This thread has taught me one thing. Reddick holding out is not really a big deal, but we are now at 21 "pages" of posts because we just need s#it to argue about with each other.

This gives me hope. 

[Dunnie]

I’d agree to that assessment.  Stuntmen get paid handsomely and can get killed in their line of work or shorten their lifespans but can also leave it at any time.  NFL players are similar in that way.  

Dar Robinson is considered the highest-paid stuntman in history, according to The Guinness Book of Records, after being paid $100,000 for a single stunt in 1982. The stunt involved Robinson jumping from the top of the CN Tower in Toronto, Canada, which was the world's tallest free-standing structure at the time. Robinson's parachute opened 90 meters off the ground after six seconds of freefall

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[Dunnie]

This thread has taught me one thing. Reddick holding out is not really a big deal, but we are now at 21 "pages" of posts because we just need s#it to argue about with each other.
This gives me hope. 

Never been a.more accurate assesment

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[ARodJetsFan]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

You literally complained about Corley not signing his rookie deal because it was "all worked out" without knowing the reason that he didn't sign.  He was at voluntary camp without a contract, by the way.

Big deal.

So was every other unsigned-rookie in the league.

 

 

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Never been a.more accurate assesment

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Yes there has!!!!

[ARodJetsFan]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

This thread has taught me one thing. Reddick holding out is not really a big deal, but we are now at 21 "pages" of posts because we just need s#it to argue about with each other.

This gives me hope. 

That's one of the best parts about being a Jets fan.

We get to knit-pick each other to death!!  😄

But we do it in great spirits & with a lot of enthusiasm. ✈️🛬✈️🛬

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Dar Robinson is considered the highest-paid stuntman in history, according to The Guinness Book of Records, after being paid $100,000 for a single stunt in 1982. The stunt involved Robinson jumping from the top of the CN Tower in Toronto, Canada, which was the world's tallest free-standing structure at the time. Robinson's parachute opened 90 meters off the ground after six seconds of freefall

A solid year's salary (for context...this is more than the Ape, who is paid well, makes in a year - @Integrity28) for one stunt.  Amazing!

 

CC:  @Barry McCockinner

[T0mShane]

40 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Correct.  And since we haven’t had a military draft in a while it would seem the military is made up of volunteer gladiators who get paid a lot less, mostly because the wealthy deemed it so.  But f**k the players right?

These dudes root for a team owned by one of America’s all-time slimiest tax evaders and they’re confused about why rank and file civil servants don’t make more money. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

These dudes root for a team owned by one of America’s all-time slimiest tax evaders and they’re confused about why rank and file civil servants don’t make more money. 

And at least some, or even many, billionaires create something that has some benefit to society.  Woody's big claim to fame is owning the Jets, nothing else, and not only does he suck at it, he jacks up the prices to boot. 

All "society" gets out of Woody Johnson is either crippling alcoholism/depression (for those that root for the Jets) or a lot of laughter every Fall (everyone else).

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Sowas every single other unsigned-rookie in the league.

Big deal.

 

Explain yourself.  

You complained about Corley not signing.  Listed it as a reason his agent was a scumbag.  It literally had ZERO effects on you or your favorite team, but you complained about it.  Now you say "Big deal."  WTF?   Make up your mind.  Is it a big deal or not?

[Dunnie]

A solid year's salary (for context...this is more than the Ape, who is paid well, makes in a year - [mention=7928]Integrity28[/mention]) for one stunt.  Amazing!
 
CC:  [mention=32990]Barry McCockinner[/mention]

Average stuntman makes $70k a year. Today.

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[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Dunnie said:

Average stuntmen makes $70k a year.

Ah.  So the Ape might have most stuntmen beat.

[Larz]

Any predictions?

 

my guess - he gets a raise, incentives , 1 more year but they put a void year on it or some other way to make it cap friendly 

August 12th 

[ARodJetsFan]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Explain yourself.  

You complained about Corley not signing.  Listed it as a reason his agent was a scumbag.  It literally had ZERO effects on you or your favorite team, but you complained about it.  Now you say "Big deal."  WTF?   Make up your mind.  Is it a big deal or not?

Nice spin - but NOT.

I said "Big deal" in reference to your remarks about Corley being at OTA's & minicamp without a signed contract like it was note-worthy, or something out of the ordinary - IT WASN'T that is 100% the norm and every other unsigned rookie of the 2024 draft class did the same exact thing.

As a matter of fact, I've NEVER heard of a rookie not participating in OTA's or mini-camp, because they didn't have a signed contract in hand.

My concern about Corley being one of the last 5 draft picks in the entire 2024 draft class to sign his rookie contract, was that he might miss some of training camp - rookies don't have to have a signed contract to participate in OTA's & minicamp, but they DO need to have a signed contract, to participate in training camp.

He wound up signing the day before training camp started, so it worked out, but the fact that it took him that long to sign his deal, made it a situation worth monitoring.

That being said, I don't need your permission or approval, so, I'll complain about whatever the hell I want to.

And yes, Jimmy Sexton is a douche bag.

[ARodJetsFan]

22 minutes ago, Larz said:

Any predictions?

 

my guess - he gets a raise, incentives , 1 more year but they put a void year on it or some other way to make it cap friendly 

August 12th 

@Larz

I don't know about the date you picked, but your contract tweak/terms are probably pretty close to what will happen, if I had to guess.

That is assuming that this does get worked out.

[#27TheDominator]

12 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Nice spin but NOT.

I said "big deal" in reference to your remarks about Corley being at OTA's & minicamp without a signed contract like it was note-worthy, or something out of the ordinary - IT WASN'T that is the norm, every other unsigned rookie of the 2024 draft class did the same exact thing.

As a matter of fact, I've NEVER heard of a rookie not participating in OTA's or mini-camp, because they didn't have a signed contract in hand.

My concern about Corley being one of the last 5 draft picks in the entire 2024 draft class to sign his rookie contract was that he would miss some of training camp - rookies don't have to have a signed contract to participate in OTA's in minicamp, but they DO need to have a signed contract to participate in training camp.

He wound up signing the day before training camp started, so it, worked out, but the fact that it took him that long to sign his deal made it a situation worth monitoring.

That being said, I don't need your permission or approval, so, I'll complain about whatever the hell I want to.

And yes Jimmy Sexton is a douche bag.

I'm sure Sexton is a douche bag.  He represents Bill Parcells.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ah.  So the Ape might have most stuntmen beat.

I’ve got them beat by default simply because I’m an ape and bananas are cheap. I win in sexy back hair and cost of living. All day.

[Jetsfan80]

19 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I’ve got them beat by default simply because I’m an ape and bananas are cheap. I win in sexy back hair and cost of living. All day.

 

No property tax either!  

[#27TheDominator]

 

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yes there has!!!!

One time my great uncle came over to see my grandfather.  He said:  "Tony, I'm bored.  Want to have an argument?"

[RutgersJetFan]

Just checking in: You braniacs solve this one yet?

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I understand this, but the "pool of money" is based on an agreement made when Corley and Lamb were not a party.  I think it's kind of a crock of sh*t when it comes down to it and is based on the TV deal.  There is still plenty of money that is made by the owners on sh*t that Shane mentioned like concessions and parking.   I think they said the Garden made an extra million pure profit for every home playoff game back in around the turn of the century.  Can you imagine what MetLife rakes per game?

 

It's a union job.   The players join the union to play in the NFL.  They don't have to play in the NFL, they can go do whatever they want. A 3rd round draft pick is signing a contract to pay him about 5.5-6 million dollars over the 4 years of the deal.   The player can re-negotiate after the 3rd year.   I don't see the huge problem with that, considering a high % of third rounders wind up not even being good NFL players.

The players negotiated a deal that gets them about 49-50% of gross revenue.  Player salaries have gone up dramatically the last few years, and I don't begrudge them for that.  If 50,000 people want to pay to watch me do my job, I'll charge more.

 

[chirorob]

7 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Just checking in: You braniacs solve this one yet?

Almost

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Any predictions?

 

my guess - he gets a raise, incentives , 1 more year but they put a void year on it or some other way to make it cap friendly 

August 12th 

If I'm not mistaken, currently there is zero guaranteed money. So, guaranty it with either additional incentives or an affordable small increase for this season.  I don't think he wants that additional year.  I think he wants free agency.

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, chirorob said:

It's a union job.   The players join the union to play in the NFL.  They don't have to play in the NFL, they can go do whatever they want. A 3rd round draft pick is signing a contract to pay him about 5.5-6 million dollars over the 4 years of the deal.   The player can re-negotiate after the 3rd year.   I don't see the huge problem with that, considering a high % of third rounders wind up not even being good NFL players.

The players negotiated a deal that gets them about 49-50% of gross revenue.  Player salaries have gone up dramatically the last few years, and I don't begrudge them for that.  If 50,000 people want to pay to watch me do my job, I'll charge more.

 

My argument is not that the players are not getting enough money.  My argument is that if there is some clause that Corley wants in his deal, why should he sign until it is in there?

I don't really have much problem with this, but I do find the whole free market v. union sh*t kind of annoying when I think of how the owners do business.

[Claymation]

 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

They have a few years to maximize their earnings before retiring in their 30s (if they’re lucky - most don’t make it in the league that long) with (typically) no other real-world skills.  I don’t get the idea of being so upset when these guys try to maximize their earnings in a short window.

You also operate like a person’s salary determines their worth in peoples’ eyes and that’s not the case either.

You’re comparing workers in two completely different worlds (private vs public sector) and complaining about the private workers being greedy despite a system where billionaires and politicians are to blame for the public sector employees getting underpaid.

If players are greedy, then I don’t have a word to adequately describe what the billionaires are in all of this.  And you think they are EQUALLY greedy?  Thats absolutely absurd.

Really it's the bolded part. It's all a matter of how much a player is worth compared to the rest of team's salary cap limits; not how much a player is worth compared to, say, an EMT who saves many human lives per year.

People are paid more than others due to a combination of two things: financial demand for their services + scarcity of competence at those services. 

By unique ability + training + narrow age window, there are fewer people in society capable of catching 1500 yards against NFL-level defenders than there are outstanding teachers, voluntary military personnel, emergency responders, etc. At any point in time, there are maybe a couple dozen such people (like Lamb) in society, and even they can't do it every year -- most who can do it like once if they ever do. It's not a matter of importance, but scarcity of services for which there's a tremendous financial demand for that individual service that the payer can't easily find elsewhere. 

Further, those other employees don't get raises only after their individual multi-year contracts are up, where financial timing is of the essence, and have the option of "work here or work nowhere in this world" as a pro athlete.

A WR like Lamb has to strike while the iron is hot: a year later and yes he might make 10% more due to NFL contract inflation, but it's at the risk of making only a small fraction of it if he sustains a career-altering injury or his production just drops tremendously. Then by the time he's fully healed and ready to shop himself around as a high-end FA again - if that time even happens - he's two years older and with a now-shorter remaining career whereby he can never mathematically make up the lost difference. Even if he did recover enough for a show-me season, to really maximize what's left he'd further have to gamble that the OL and QB and 1-2 other competent (but not too competent) receiving targets also stay healthy all season.

He's 25, 100% healthy, the team is a near-lock for the postseason with him, and the odds are he'll never have another 1700-yard season again (let alone in a contract year). He's doing the right thing for himself. It'd be better for the team if he didn't, but he'd be foolish to unnecessarily push his pile of chips onto the table again. 

[Sperm Edwards]

52 minutes ago, Dcat said:

If I'm not mistaken, currently there is zero guaranteed money. So, guaranty it with either additional incentives or an affordable small increase for this season.  I don't think he wants that additional year.  I think he wants free agency.

I kind of figure that'll happen. A bump from his base, and then he's still a UFA after the season. I don't know that they want to incentivize it (e.g. 10 sacks) because then the player gets even more bitter about the Jets' DL rotation that robs him of a couple sacks in a contract year. Pay it forward as though he reaches that level: i.e. bump him to $20MM (less if they can get him to agree to take less), and reassess his contract during or after the season.

The "guarantee" part, while technically true on paper, I kind of think is much ado about nothing. If he gets injured in preseason - prior to his salary getting officially guaranteed on the week 1 roster - the Jets aren't and never were going to cut him to avoid payment. No team does that with their high-priced talent, or they'd have a much bigger and long-lasting problem on their hands than $14MM less cap space one season. That's the kind of stuff that could be fodder for a full-on player strike, so it's just not going to happen.

Bump him $3-6MM and he gets to shop himself around to all 32 teams in March.

[Bobby816]

41 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Really it's the bolded part. It's all a matter of how much a player is worth compared to the rest of team's salary cap limits; not how much a player is worth compared to, say, an EMT who saves many human lives per year.

People are paid more than others due to a combination of two things: financial demand for their services + scarcity of competence at those services. 

By unique ability + training + narrow age window, there are fewer people in society capable of catching 1500 yards against NFL-level defenders than there are outstanding teachers, voluntary military personnel, emergency responders, etc. At any point in time, there are maybe a couple dozen such people (like Lamb) in society, and even they can't do it every year -- most who can do it like once if they ever do. It's not a matter of importance, but scarcity of services for which there's a tremendous financial demand for that individual service that the payer can't easily find elsewhere. 

Further, those other employees don't get raises only after their individual multi-year contracts are up, where financial timing is of the essence, and have the option of "work here or work nowhere in this world" as a pro athlete.

A WR like Lamb has to strike while the iron is hot: a year later and yes he might make 10% more due to NFL contract inflation, but it's at the risk of making only a small fraction of it if he sustains a career-altering injury or his production just drops tremendously. Then by the time he's fully healed and ready to shop himself around as a high-end FA again - if that time even happens - he's two years older and with a now-shorter remaining career whereby he can never mathematically make up the lost difference. Even if he did recover enough for a show-me season, to really maximize what's left he'd further have to gamble that the OL and QB and 1-2 other competent (but not too competent) receiving targets also stay healthy all season.

He's 25, 100% healthy, the team is a near-lock for the postseason with him, and the odds are he'll never have another 1700-yard season again (let alone in a contract year). He's doing the right thing for himself. It'd be better for the team if he didn't, but he'd be foolish to unnecessarily push his pile of chips onto the table again. 

To play the other side of this though... regular jobs next to never exist the way NFL players do in the way raises go.

 

I'm sure there is a couple here or there... but in general I can't think of any job that let's say you're a mid rounder and are making 1million a year. Furthermore to this. If this mid rounder sucks. he still gets his full deal. If you suck at "most" jobs... you get fired. You don't get paid for 3 more years. yes there are some. But in general no.

 

But let's say that 4th rounder making 1mill per year for 4 years is a star. He can go all the way to making 30million per year.

 

Name me a job that you just do your job and do it well and you get a raise 30x over?

If anyone is doing that thats in general with investments. Stuff any profession could do. So for me that doesnt play into this.

 

I'm talking about that your actual job. Same company. You can make 30X what you were before and that fast.

 

For example I work for the GOV. We have a GS scale for most our jobs. You aren't going from a GS7 to a GS15 in a matter of a couple years. I've never seen it and I've been working for the GOV for 20+ years.

My wife works for a huge financial company and you can only apply for a new role after you've been in a role for 1 whole year and can only try and get a job 1 level higher.