New York Jets, Haason Reddick Contract Saga No Longer About Fines. Game checks are now on the line, to the tune of $852,941 for each game missed.

[NYJCAP2]

Not sure if posted, sorry if dupe.

Never heard Lombardi ever acknowledge the Jets are doing something right.

[Biggs]

15 minutes ago, Trotter said:

his record does - no doubt and no argument.

Can't play what if but if Rodgers does not go down after 4 plays last year - I highly doubt the angst against JD is this strong by some.

Sure JD's record would only be 3-5 games better, but most likely the Jets land a playoff spot and JD is viewed differently.

He has had his misses and they have been glaring but he is the best GM this team has had in the last 40 years. That might not be saying much, but we have seen much much worse.

 

The Jets went to back to back AFC championship games under Tannenbaum.   They might have won the SB if Favre didn't have a sore shoulder in 2008.  The certainly make the playoffs 3 straight years.  Tannenbaum had a winning record as the Jets GM and went to the playoffs in year 1, 4 and 5.

He's not the best GM in 40 years.  That's nonsense.  

[Trotter]

7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Jets went to back to back AFC championship games under Tannenbaum.   They might have won the SB if Favre didn't have a sore shoulder in 2008.  The certainly make the playoffs 3 straight years.  Tannenbaum had a winning record as the Jets GM and went to the playoffs in year 1, 4 and 5.

He's not the best GM in 40 years.  That's nonsense.  

Tanny is a fair counter. He certainly did some good while here and yes record wise he views better but he had his shortcomings as well. I view Tanny as more reactionary and short term growth than JD who seems to be focused on sustaining current/future.

Yes the argument to that is the 40yr old QB but I see it as an approach to build winning with all of the young guys and make the Jets a destination that players want to come to - not consider a circus.

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Not sure if posted, sorry if dupe.

Never heard Lombardi ever acknowledge the Jets are doing something right.

Nor have I, lol

[Sperm Edwards]

34 minutes ago, Trotter said:

because it supports the narrative that JD sucks - needs to be fired and who only knows who they want to replace him with.

Warts and all, I’ve more or less accepted this is about as good of a GM as Woody Johnson is likely to attract.

The only other hope these past couple off-seasons was to fork over a mountain of $ to make Harbaugh a dual HC/GM man in charge like Parcells was. Harbaugh is a top coach, but I already think his first draft pick was moronic - taking a second young tackle (hardly some generational OT prospect either) that he didn’t explicitly need, over an electric young WR he very badly needs - so who knows what kind of a GM he’ll turn out to be himself.

Also remember the Raiders were supposed to win every draft after they hired Mike Mayock (who traded for Antonio Brown before his first draft and then whiffed on almost all his high draft picks).

Grass isn’t always greener or something. Usually they end up with Maccagnan, Idzik, and taking bad hiring advice from the likes of Charley Casserly, Korn Ferry, and Peyton Manning.

If this season is a disaster he’ll probably get fired and then we can kickstart hating on the next terrible Jets GM .

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Warts and all, I’ve more or less accepted this is about as good of a GM as Woody Johnson is likely to attract.

The only other hope these past couple off-seasons was to fork over a mountain of $ to make Harbaugh a dual HC/GM man in charge like Parcells was. Harbaugh is a top coach, but I already think his first draft pick was moronic - taking a second young tackle (hardly some generational OT prospect either) that he didn’t explicitly need, over an electric young WR he very badly needs - so who knows what kind of a GM he’ll turn out to be himself.

Also remember the Raiders were supposed to win every draft after they hired Mike Mayock (who traded for Antonio Brown before his first draft and then whiffed on almost all his high draft picks).

Grass isn’t always greener or something. Usually they end up with Maccagnan, Idzik, and taking bad hiring advice from the likes of Charley Casserly, Korn Ferry, and Peyton Manning.

If this season is a disaster he’ll probably get fired and then we can kickstart hating on the next terrible Jets GM .

The best argument for keeping JD is Woody.  He absolutely can and will do worse.  The question is can JD do better than Saleh and what may be an old washed QB?  Not saying he is but where going to find out when he gets hit. 

[Sperm Edwards]

53 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Yea but I think they give it to charity.  Tax deductible.  He probably makes more after taxes with the fines because NJ?  Florida or Texas the fines actually matter. 

No.

He loses $5MM in salary. Whether that goes to charity or if it was a paycheck he never received, it’s the same to him.

He doesn’t receive $0 in income and simply gain $5MM in deductions. He gets $5MM in income + $5MM in charitable deductions = $0 net taxable income (whether that’s in a high or low tax state it’s irrelevant; there’s no tax on $0).

To the player the net is the same as if he never received the checks in the first place, which is technically what happens with game checks once the season begins (it’s a check never issued, not a check issued which is then fined at that same amount). 

The only difference is to the team:

• The $5MM in fines comes off the team’s salary cap because officially they’re still paying it to the player (who’s then paying it to charity after the fact).
• On the other hand, forfeited game checks (or bonus checks) he didn’t earn don’t come off the cap because they’re never paid.

[TBJ]

I say @Pac gets this done at the red lobster in Sullivan County, New York, before the 4th basket of cheddar biscuits is gone.

[Claymation]

The reasoning to let Huff leave is not just one specific reasons but many. And it has nothing to do with Huff being a bad player because he is a good DE.

1. Huff wanted to play 3 downs, his game is a speed rusher with incredible bend that is more suited for situational pass rusher. The Jets don't see him as a 3 down end. Is Huff a great player or a product of the system? If Huff loses a step, for whatever reason. Can he develop other moves to get to the passer? I like Huff. 
2. Reddick is an upgrade, who is proven
3. Saleh/Ulbrich's (S/U) defense gets the most out of their Defensive Line. ie. Huff, JFM
4. S/U feel they can find another UDFA/discarded player, hence the Taylor, McGregor, Watts and Takk roster additions. Can these players be cultivated in the same vain JFM and Huff were. We shall see. Fans will grumble that they don't see immediate returns this year. But some players, even 1st rounders take time to find their footing in the NFL.

I look forward to seeing this Line, watch players emerge, see flashes from some of the UDFAs and finally play some games with a lead. This CS believe they are great teachers, we shall see.

 

[ARodJetsFan]

3 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I look forward to seeing this Line, watch players emerge, see flashes from some of the UDFAs and finally play some games with a lead. This CS believe they are great teachers, we shall see.

 

4 players we have, that aren't on the national radar yet and may surprise people this season;

1) Takk "McSack" McKinnley

2) Braden McGregor

3) Leonard Taylor III

4) Eric Watts

I'm really looking forward to watching these guys play this season.

[jamesr]

No it doesn't.  He's record does.

If he wins the Super Bowl this year, and still owns a losing record, do we still fire him?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Pac]

48 minutes ago, TBJ said:

I say @Pac gets this done at the red lobster in Sullivan County, New York, before the 4th basket of cheddar biscuits is gone.

Many of the more important decisions I've made in my life were decided eating a cheddar biscuit and sipping on a delicious RL Pina Colada. 

The bar is a really underestimated aspect of your local Red Lobster. 

[Pac]

I've read about 6 posts from this thread, is he coming in or what? 

[Biggs]

18 minutes ago, jamesr said:

If he wins the Super Bowl this year, and still owns a losing record, do we still fire him?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

If he goes 9 and 8 makes the playoffs and gets blown out in game 1 he will get an extension. 

If he wins the SB he should turn down an extension and get a GM job with a good owner.

[ARodJetsFan]

18 minutes ago, Pac said:

I've read about 6 posts from this thread, is he coming in or what? 

That not very Captain'ish @Pac

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

If he wins the Super Bowl this year, and still owns a losing record, do we still fire him?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

[Matt39]

3 hours ago, JetPotato said:

I still can't believe that there are Jets fans that don't understand that Reddick has nothing to do with Huff. It's small thinking based on the teams involved and "sacks".

Realistically though, Reddick is JFM's replacement and McDonald is Huff's.

This sounds like the time when the Jets replaced Coles with Curtis Conway because Coles was too expensive and the fans rationalized it. Of course Huff and Reddick are related. 

[Matt39]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

They traded up for Johnson in 22 to replace Huff and took Mcdonald last year in anticipations of him replacing the guy JD traded Huff for.

3D chess.

The QB being 40 makes all of this replace stuff irrelevant when the Jets- need to win and need all of the good players they can get. Huff on the tag was the easiest way to bring back the defense from last year.

[Matt39]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

One player, you’re down one pass rusher.  

Which for the Jets defense is significant. 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Not sure if posted, sorry if dupe.

Never heard Lombardi ever acknowledge the Jets are doing something right.

He's a Jets hater to the core.

[JetPotato]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

This sounds like the time when the Jets replaced Coles with Curtis Conway because Coles was too expensive and the fans rationalized it. Of course Huff and Reddick are related. 

It's nothing like that. Not even remotely close. In fact, that's probably the dumbest thing I've heard all week, and that's with us being heavily in election season.

[Matt39]

Just now, JetPotato said:

It's nothing like that. Not even remotely close. In fact, that's probably the dumbest thing I've heard all week, and that's with us being heavily in election season.

Wow great point 

JFM and Reddick play different positions. Keep coping.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Warts and all, I’ve more or less accepted this is about as good of a GM as Woody Johnson is likely to attract.

The only other hope these past couple off-seasons was to fork over a mountain of $ to make Harbaugh a dual HC/GM man in charge like Parcells was. Harbaugh is a top coach, but I already think his first draft pick was moronic - taking a second young tackle (hardly some generational OT prospect either) that he didn’t explicitly need, over an electric young WR he very badly needs - so who knows what kind of a GM he’ll turn out to be himself.

Also remember the Raiders were supposed to win every draft after they hired Mike Mayock (who traded for Antonio Brown before his first draft and then whiffed on almost all his high draft picks).

Grass isn’t always greener or something. Usually they end up with Maccagnan, Idzik, and taking bad hiring advice from the likes of Charley Casserly, Korn Ferry, and Peyton Manning.

If this season is a disaster he’ll probably get fired and then we can kickstart hating on the next terrible Jets GM .

 

Quote

Warts and all, I’ve more or less accepted this is about as good of a GM as Woody Johnson is likely to attract.

Fwiw though, there are people saying we have one of the top rosters in the NFL.  I realize they have to get it done on the field and all but I'm sure that's just a minor nuisance! 

Quote

The only other hope these past couple off-seasons was to fork over a mountain of $ to make Harbaugh a dual HC/GM man in charge like Parcells was.

Honestly, I think that would've been a better move.  I just feel like the guy will build a winner.  The only downside is that he can burn a team out.  But the same was said about Parcells and we had a very nice run with his players, even after he left.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No.

He loses $5MM in salary. Whether that goes to charity or if it was a paycheck he never received, it’s the same to him.

He doesn’t receive $0 in income and simply gain $5MM in deductions. He gets $5MM in income + $5MM in charitable deductions = $0 net taxable income (whether that’s in a high or low tax state it’s irrelevant; there’s no tax on $0).

To the player the net is the same as if he never received the checks in the first place, which is technically what happens with game checks once the season begins (it’s a check never issued, not a check issued which is then fined at that same amount). 

The only difference is to the team:

• The $5MM in fines comes off the team’s salary cap because officially they’re still paying it to the player (who’s then paying it to charity after the fact).
• On the other hand, forfeited game checks (or bonus checks) he didn’t earn don’t come off the cap because they’re never paid.

I think you might have that backwards.. 

[Matt39]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Who led the team in sacks last year?

With Reddick playing who would be expected to lead the team in sacks this year? 

JFM was mostly strong against the run lacking dominant pass rushing skills.  That is not was Reddick is.  Reddick is far closer to Huff's skill set than JFM's.  While he's not a push over like Huff in the run game no one would call him stout.   He's a pass rushers.  That is not what JFM is.

There are no specific replacement.  Just a different dynamic. 

Huff isn’t LT but the collective dump the homer crowd is taking on his worth as a player is unfortunately as predictable as can be. Whenever a player or coach leaves, they were suddenly not any good. The Jets are a better defense with him on the roster vs not being on the roster. What are we doing here.

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

The reasoning to let Huff leave is not just one specific reasons but many. And it has nothing to do with Huff being a bad player because he is a good DE.

1. Huff wanted to play 3 downs, his game is a speed rusher with incredible bend that is more suited for situational pass rusher. The Jets don't see him as a 3 down end. Is Huff a great player or a product of the system? If Huff loses a step, for whatever reason. Can he develop other moves to get to the passer? I like Huff. 
2. Reddick is an upgrade, who is proven
3. Saleh/Ulbrich's (S/U) defense gets the most out of their Defensive Line. ie. Huff, JFM
4. S/U feel they can find another UDFA/discarded player, hence the Taylor, McGregor, Watts and Takk roster additions. Can these players be cultivated in the same vain JFM and Huff were. We shall see. Fans will grumble that they don't see immediate returns this year. But some players, even 1st rounders take time to find their footing in the NFL.

I look forward to seeing this Line, watch players emerge, see flashes from some of the UDFAs and finally play some games with a lead. This CS believe they are great teachers, we shall see.

 

very well said, I always think when I hear people talk about how we should not have let huff go that they really dont watch the team or are stupid as hell. Huff was a system guy, not some great 10 sack guy in the sense that people generally think - full time player making a difference on every play. Reddick is that guy. the Undrafted guys we kept on the roster are all just as good a huff to me, they have talent and our coaching and system will give them opportunities to excel. that is it. 

Huff signing where he did, good luck, best of luck to that team because he is not the player they think he is. Eagles also starting becton too? good luck again I really hope both player have great season but they will not.

I just hink this post is all kind fo good. @Claymationis really correct and right about this, and lets not even get into the money. But Reddick when he decides to come and play and stop givign away money we are going to be paying way less for his services. Its win win for Jets. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

17 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

It's nothing like that. Not even remotely close. In fact, that's probably the dumbest thing I've heard all week, and that's with us being heavily in election season.

Just to remind everyone Coles was over rated and man he has a pod cast now where his delusion is that he is some kind of WR on the level with Jerry Rice. Ridiculous. We might have let him go to get his big head out of our building. 

[Augustiniak]

21 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Which for the Jets defense is significant. 

I think the younger guys they have can do fine.  Also important to remember is that if rodgers can stay on the field the games are completely different versus having zach wilson and his league leading 3 and outs which always put the jets d in the position of having to play from behind.  It’s far easier to play defense when your offense scores points, when you have leads, when you know the other team is passing, when you also have a bunch of good defensive players.  Then throw in a guy like taylor III and his impact can be better than if the score is 7-6 and the jets have punted from their own 20 the past 4 drives.  

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I think you might have that backwards.. 

I don't think so, but fire away if I'm wrong.

• SCENARIO A = If he collects $15MM and then has $5MM in preseason fines, he only pays income taxes on $10MM because the $5MM in fines is tax deductible charity: the gov't treats the donated amount as non-taxable income. 
• SCENARIO B = If his contract calls for $15MM in pay, has no actual fines (say he staged a hold-in) but then held out the first 6 games at ~$800K (call it $5MM in game checks) then the team never actually pays him that first $5MM, they only pay him the $10MM in game checks after that, and therefore he only pays income taxes on the $10MM he received. 

Therefore either scenario is the same thing to the player.

However from the team's standpoint (specifically, the team's salary cap):

• In SCENARIO A, the team fully pays out $15MM in salary, so $15MM hits the team's salary cap. The $5MM in fines has nothing to do with the team (other than they may facilitate the payment by paying the charity directly instead of paying the player who then pays the charity; it's still the player's money that goes to the charity: if it didn't go to charity it would go to the player, not kept by the team).
• In SCENARIO B, the team only paid out $10MM in salary, and never paid the other $5MM to the player (or to charity on the player's behalf), so only $10MM hits the team's salary cap.

I'm pretty sure this is correct. 

[Biggs]

34 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The QB being 40 makes all of this replace stuff irrelevant when the Jets- need to win and need all of the good players they can get. Huff on the tag was the easiest way to bring back the defense from last year.

Sort of.  The Jets clearly made a decision on Huff last year when they drafted McDonald.  They weren’t interested in keeping him past last year.  

JD got rid of him and got what he thought was a 1 year rental who was better and cheaper than a tag on Huff.  Turns out it was a little too cute of a move since Reddick isn’t here.

I can’t imagine Reddick isn’t showing up at some point and playing hard.  It’s also possible that McDonald is going to be productive as a third down pass rusher.  TBD.

I can see the reason to both use the tag or not use it on Huff.  I can also see the trade for Reddick at a cheap price in draft capital.   

I’m a little surprised JD didn’t work this out before it got to this point.  

Big picture if Rodgers can take hard contact, survive and play well the Jets probably will be fine with or without him.  On the margin he might be the difference between a tough loss and a tough win in a big moment.  If Rodgers can’t Reddick won’t on the margin make much of a difference.

[Biggs]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't think so, but fire away if I'm wrong.

• SCENARIO A = If he collects $15MM and then has $5MM in preseason fines, he only pays income taxes on $10MM because the $5MM in fines is tax deductible charity: the gov't treats the donated amount as non-taxable income. 
• SCENARIO B = If his contract calls for $15MM in pay, has no actual fines (say he staged a hold-in) but then held out the first 6 games at ~$800K (call it $5MM in game checks) then the team never actually pays him that first $5MM, they only pay him the $10MM in game checks after that, and therefore he only pays income taxes on the $10MM he received. 

Therefore either scenario is the same thing to the player.

However from the team's standpoint (specifically, the team's salary cap):

• In SCENARIO A, the team fully pays out $15MM in salary, so $15MM hits the team's salary cap. The $5MM in fines has nothing to do with the team (other than they may facilitate the payment by paying the charity directly instead of paying the player who then pays the charity; it's still the player's money that goes to the charity: if it didn't go to charity it would go to the player, not kept by the team).
• In SCENARIO B, the team only paid out $10MM in salary, and never paid the other $5MM to the player (or to charity on the player's behalf), so only $10MM hits the team's salary cap.

I'm pretty sure this is correct. 

Doubt this is true.  The fine is a charitable contribution.  If he has income he can take the deduction.  If he gets paid anything from the Jets the fines come off the pay and are deductible.

[JetPotato]

43 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Wow great point 

JFM and Reddick play different positions. Keep coping.

You serious? It's almost as if you watch zero games and have absolutely no understanding of how the Jets defense works.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40038762/sources-broncos-acquire-jets-de-john-franklin-myers

Jets general manager Joe Douglas said Saturday that the Reddick acquisition was the driving force behind the decision to trade Franklin-Myers, noting "it was next to impossible to keep JFM at his salary." There were talks with Franklin-Myers' agent about reworking his deal, but "the gap was too far for us to bridge," Douglas said.

 

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

You serious? It's almost as if you watch zero games and have absolutely no understanding of how the Jets defense works.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40038762/sources-broncos-acquire-jets-de-john-franklin-myers

Jets general manager Joe Douglas said Saturday that the Reddick acquisition was the driving force behind the decision to trade Franklin-Myers, noting "it was next to impossible to keep JFM at his salary." There were talks with Franklin-Myers' agent about reworking his deal, but "the gap was too far for us to bridge," Douglas said.

 

Reddick is an edge. JFM is not.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Doubt this is true.  The fine is a charitable contribution.  If he has income he can take the deduction.  If he gets paid anything from the Jets the fines come off the pay and are deductible.

I don't think you're following: 

1. He gets paid $15MM
2. He pays $5MM to charity
3. His taxable income is therefore $10MM.

You can't fail to receive it AND take a deduction. That'd be taking the same deduction twice (or more correctly, taking an additional tax deduction on money he never earned). He DID earn the $5MM in fine money, and from $5MM of the money he's earning, he's (unwillingly) donating $5MM of it to charity.  

He either receives the pay and also pays the charity (out of that pay) OR (during the season) he never receives the money in the first place. It can't be that the team never pays anybody AND he gets a tax deduction for money the team never paid him. 

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Sort of.  The Jets clearly made a decision on Huff last year when they drafted McDonald.  They weren’t interested in keeping him past last year.  

JD got rid of him and got what he thought was a 1 year rental who was better and cheaper than a tag on Huff.  Turns out it was a little too cute of a move since Reddick isn’t here.

I can’t imagine Reddick isn’t showing up at some point and playing hard.  It’s also possible that McDonald is going to be productive as a third down pass rusher.  TBD.

I can see the reason to both use the tag or not use it on Huff.  I can also see the trade for Reddick at a cheap price in draft capital.   

I’m a little surprised JD didn’t work this out before it got to this point.  

Big picture if Rodgers can take hard contact, survive and play well the Jets probably will be fine with or without him.  On the margin he might be the difference between a tough loss and a tough win in a big moment.  If Rodgers can’t Reddick won’t on the margin make much of a difference.

Wasn’t the year to get cute. Reddick being a flake was pretty well established. The Jets now have two edge guys instead of 3. Hopefully McDonald is the real deal.