Jets\Pats -- Belly Cheated: MERGED

[124]

The hoodies, the hoodies are what bothers me.

Indeed. Does he have more than one or does he wash the same one just numerous times throughout the season?

[RSJ]

Indeed. Does he have more than one or does he wash the same one just numerous times throughout the season?

This guy is a total lowlife so I'm gonna have to say it's the same one.

[Iceman88]

Indeed. Does he have more than one or does he wash the same one just numerous times throughout the season?

Probably the same one but he definitely doesn't wash it, he's too much of a bum. Maybe when he sees Sharon Shenocca she does it for him.

[GreenBeans]

The Pats filmed the Jets signals. You were right I was wrong. My apologies mate.

Some of the posts today have been way over the top IMO.

I just want to know how long the cameraman was filming and how the Pats got the stolen info from the cameraman to the team in order to make adjustments.

Hopefully there will be more info available on Friday. I'm sure I will receive a boatload of crap from joisey, Bren, faba, etc who I will see on Sunday when I'm down in Baltimore!

I'm just busting your balls, G - you're good people. It's not like you were the camera man, afterall.

ALSO - I'd like all of the people calling out "Patsie Trolls" to note that Gainzo did the right thing here.

[Gainzo]

I remember that game - but I'm thinking this beating could be much, much worse.

God, I hope not. That was a 41-17 ass kicking!

[nyjetsjetsjets]

Exactly.

Like Schefter said "Fines, picks and suspensions" All three would be good for me. I love football so much I don't want to see the game tainted by this crap.

I know that is how I feel. I put so much energy into paying attention to the jets and the league, i don't know what i would do to fill all that time.

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

How do I become a mod?

I would love to call people out, Close threads, merge threads and change JN Posters avatar... What a life. How can I become one

[Iceman88]

How do I become a mod?

I would love to call people out, Close threads, merge threads and change JN Posters avatar... What a life. How can I become one

Stop being a tw*t. Than let Max have his way with you.

[NY JETS 29]

i think if you became one you would run the rest of us out of here

[rick34125]

No they didnt.

Face the facts, the Jets stunk it up Sunday on all sides of the ball, not just defense.

I hate what happened too, but we must face reality and realize that the Jets still would have lost.

I totally disagree.

When you know what play your opponent is going to call it gives you untold advantage. Imagine if you know when your opponent is going to blitz or drop back into coverage or bring a stunt between tackles or when he's going to run or throw a pass to the left side or right side, etc., etc. Get the idea.

How do you measure that kind of advantage?

In a league where teams are so comparable and games are more often than not decided by turnovers I'm not willing to say the Patriots would have won even without cheating.

If you listened to the players after the game sunday then you would have heard how much confidence they had in the coaches great game plan. The Jets were fired up and prepared for this game, but when everything they did was so easily countered the players come out not looking that good. How does a boxer look when every punch he throws is easily countered?

I would not discount the possibility that the Jets could have won that game straight up. And neither did the Patriots obviously.

Don't underestimate the seriousness of what the Patriots did. They need to pay a big price. Btw, we still don't know how much cheating they did in this game and in previous games. We'll probably never know. Technology is pretty powerful and easy to hide.

[JetCane]

ALSO - I'd like all of the people calling out "Patsie Trolls" to note that Gainzo did the right thing here.

Noted.

I'm just busting your balls, G - you're good people. It's not like you were the camera man, afterall.

no, he wasnt.

He was!

[Gainzo]

The below is from SI's Don Banks.

This is in no way defending what the Pats did on Sunday. They used a video camera on the sidelines, were caught, and will be punished for what they did. As they should be.

Information, paranoia rule thoughts of many in NFL

Posted: Wednesday July 25, 2007 12:07PM; Updated: Wednesday July 25, 2007 2:03PM

Cheating in the NFL isn't what it once was. The league's institution of the K-ball program in recent years addressed the doctoring of footballs that was a routine practice of kickers and punters everywhere. And the pregame pat-down the officiating crew now gives offensive and defensive linemen eliminated the ability to grease up one's jersey in order to become too slick to contain.

But there are still some more subtle examples of surreptitious behavior going on in Roger Goodell's kingdom, if you know where to look. In talking with league sources, here are several areas where teams tend to go just over the line that separates strategy from subterfuge in seeking a competitive advantage:

1. Pictures are worth a thousand words: The "stealing'' of signs -- both on offense and defense -- is the area that's most often cited as fertile ground for cheating. The most common practice is for a team to videotape an opponent's signal-givers on the sideline, and later marry up those indications to the game tape in order to identify tendencies or patterns.

Though no disciplinary action by the league ever resulted, the Patriots last year were reportedly the impetus of a sternly written letter from the league office to all teams, reminding them that it was illegal for an advance scout or personnel official to bring a video recording device of any kind into the press box for the purposes of taping a potential opponent's signals or play-calling gestures from the sideline.

Teams have also been chastised for having a second camera in the press box-area video box, with one camera shooting the game action and the other one being trained on the opposing team's signal-givers. On offense, that's why coaches have taken to holding their play-calling charts in front of their mouths when they're sending in the play to the quarterback via the radio headset system.

On defense, teams have gone to having two different signal callers, with one being a dummy signaler and other being responsible for the "hot,'' or real, call. Other teams use different color wrist bands during a game, with the defensive captain switching to a different color before each series, and the defensive signal-caller calling formations and blitzes from a list that corresponds with that color.

"That type of sign-stealing goes on a ton in the league,'' said one NFL source who was both a former coach and player in the league. "From a coaching standpoint, you know who's signaling in the personnel on the opposing sideline, and then there's another guy making the play calls on the headset. Defenses used to watch the play-caller, and if a guy spoke for a real long time, that was usually a pass, because the calls take longer. A run is always a shorter call. So coaches shield their mouths when they're calling plays now. If you make your calls out in the open, the other team will steal your signals and your tendencies.''

2. De-briefing the former enemy: With the advent of free agency and coaching tenures getting shorter all the time, the movement of players and coaches from team to team is more prevalent than ever. And that means more information about an opponent's tendencies and play-calling is readily available and waiting to be mined.

One way that insight can be helpful is in the identifying of an opponent's calls at the line of scrimmage, from a first-hand source who played or coached for that team in the recent past.

"You try to get those false calls that teams like to use at the line,'' said one former player. "Player X or coach X who has been with that team might stop by the offensive or defensive meetings and say, 'Look for this if they say that. Or when the quarterback does this, look for that.' It can be very useful in some cases.''

3. One man's trash is another man's treasure: Head coaches in the NFL are by nature paranoid beings. And they're often control freaks to boot. And when it comes to the potential of giving away a competitive edge of any sort, they're absolutely maniacal about keeping things in house.

One former coach and player told me that many coaches now have their trash segregated and shredded independent of everyone else's at the team complex. Everything that can be controlled, is controlled, from who gets to watch practice to who's cleaning the team's building at night.

"The more money that's at stake, the more it's like spy versus spy,'' a league source said. "Coaches are always looking out for moles. They want to know who's in the building at night, who can see the depth chart on the greaseboard and who's emptying the trash? And you can't just be a mid-level paper-pusher in an organization and expect to come out and watch practice. That guy might have grown up in D.C. and is a lifelong Redskins fan.''

It's not just in their home environments that coaches seek to control the flow of information.

"On road trips, let's say you're going to the west coast and have a walk-through practice at the stadium on Saturday afternoon,'' the source said. "You're told not to leave anything behind. From cheat sheets for the players, to the tests we give players about the game plan on the flight out, to anything that might be of use to the opponent. Because if anything gets dropped, you can expect it will eventually find its way to the other team.

"Coaches don't trust people at the hotel on the road, or the people who pick you up on the bus and take you to the hotel or the stadium. Everything is scrutinized. To some coaches, every little detail matters.''

The bent toward intrigue can be so prevalent at times teams will go to the lengths of leaving a fake game plan or play-calling script behind at times, in order to throw an opponent off the trail and cost it needless time trying to decode a useless document. Teams have been known to run as many meaningless blitzes as possible when they play Tampa Bay in the preseason, because they know ever-thorough Bucs head coach Jon Gruden will feel the need to catalog and prepare for the possibility of seeing every one of them in the future.

4. The playbook's the thing: Since the dawn of time, coaches have been reminding players to keep an eye on their playbooks at all times. But they still occasionally fall into enemy hands, and can sometimes yield a treasure trove of material used for nefarious purposes, at least competitively speaking.

I was told of one recent visiting NFL player who was downstairs at his team's hotel the night before a game in St. Louis, and put his playbook down for a moment to sign an autograph for a kid. He forgot to pick it back up, and it somehow found its way to the Rams before game time.

"The playbook is a big one,'' said one former NFL player. "We were told to not even leave them out in the open in the locker room during the week. You'd get fined big time over a lost playbook. You don't get a mulligan on that one. Coaches harp on that all the time.''

Other league sources I talked to were more dubious about the real value of a playbook should it find its way into an opponent's hands.

"Most good teams don't give out everything in their playbook at the same time, at least not to every player,'' a source said. "I'll bet you the Patriots don't. They give you just what you have to have. And even if you get the playbook, you've got to know the calls. You've got to know what's hot in any particular route. It doesn't really matter if you know the plays. You've got to know the calls. You can hear Peyton Manning's signals at the line, but he changes what they mean all the time.''

5. Making the pick: Is it cheating when offensive coaches teach their receivers to set an illegal pick on a particular route while reminding them to make it look good and accidental? Like the old neighborhood play at second base on the double play in baseball, a receiver setting a pick in football usually won't get flagged unless his work is sloppy and looks egregiously illegal.

Make it appear like the pick was all but unavoidable, and most officials won't reach for the yellow hankie. Thus, it comes down to good technique and good coaching.

"You do get coached on how to make a pick look accidental,'' said a former player. "The offensive coordinator is always reminding the receivers how to set a good pick on this play and keep it looking like the defender ran into you.''

[nyjetsjetsjets]

I totally disagree.

When you know what play your opponent is going to call it gives you untold advantage. Imagine if you know when your opponent is going to blitz or drop back into coverage or bring a stunt between tackles or when he's going to run or throw a pass to the left side or right side, etc., etc. Get the idea.

How do you measure that kind of advantage?

In a league where teams are so comparable and games are more often than not decided by turnovers I'm not willing to say the Patriots would have won even without cheating.

If you listened to the players after the game sunday then you would have heard how much confidence they had in the coaches great game plan. The Jets were fired up and prepared for this game, but when everything they did was so easily countered the players come out not looking that good. How does a boxer look when every punch he throws is easily countered?

I would not discount the possibility that the Jets could have won that game straight up. And neither did the Patriots obviously.

Don't underestimate the seriousness of what the Patriots did. They need to pay a big price. Btw, we still don't know how much cheating they did in this game and in previous games. We'll probably never know. Technology is pretty powerful and easy to hide.

Exactly, there is no way to know what the advantage was. Obviously the patriots thought there was a big enough advantage to keep doing it after being caught multiple times and warned. They had to be caught red handed before anything was even done, and they probably are still denying it.

We will never know the impact this has had on pats games, and we will never know how long its been going on, and thats what makes it so dangerous.

[RSJ]

God, I hope not. That was a 41-17 ass kicking!

hahaha!

Btw good job hanging out to discuss this like an adult and take your lumps.

[124]

[nyjetsjetsjets]

im sure stuff like this happens all the time, and they should all be punished. cheating is cheating.

[Bugg]

I respect Barry Bonds much more for his achievements than I do the Patriots for anything. From speaking to non-Jets fans, a lot of people are looking at the Pats differently now.

I wonder what Peyton Manning thinks now? Maybe he would have gotten a Super bowl 5 years ago if not for the Pats cheating.

In light of the fact Mangini was their DB coach and their DC, I'm not sure you want to go there.

[GreenBeans]

Noted.

no, he wasnt.

He was!

Nice JC.

[dbatesman]

Don't shoot the messenger--I think this is HIGHLY unlikely. If it had happened, we would have heard about it already. But for what it's worth...

POSTED 8:34 p.m. EDT, September 11, 2007

WERE PATS WIRING DEFENSIVE PLAYERS, TOO?

The situation regarding the New England

Patriots and the allegations/proof that they have stolen defensive signals is unofficially getting weirder.

The signal stealing flap is relevant only to defensive signals, since all offensive calls are made by radio.

But we're now aware of suspicions/rumors regarding efforts by the Pats to get a leg up as to opposing offenses. Specifically, we're told that it's believed that, during the 2006 season, the Patriots were putting microphones on defensive linemen in order to capture the offensive line calls and the

quarterback audibles.

Then, the audio and the video of the game would be matched up, and the defensive players would be given the code at halftime.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

[BP]

God, I hope not. That was a 41-17 ass kicking!

Good man Gainzo, thanks for showing up.

I guess Garb must be making canolis or something.

[nyjetsjetsjets]

In light of the fact Mangini was their DB coach and their DC, I'm not sure you want to go there.

Hey, If mangini is doing the same thing, he should be punished as well. I don't want to root for a cheater!

[RSJ]

Good man Gainzo, thanks for showing up.

I guess Garb must be making canolis or something.

Well it is hard to type with canoli all over your hands.

[nyjetsjetsjets]

Don't shoot the messenger--I think this is HIGHLY unlikely. If it had happened, we would have heard about it already. But for what it's worth...

POSTED 8:34 p.m. EDT, September 11, 2007

WERE PATS WIRING DEFENSIVE PLAYERS, TOO?

The situation regarding the New England

Patriots and the allegations/proof that they have stolen defensive signals is unofficially getting weirder.

The signal stealing flap is relevant only to defensive signals, since all offensive calls are made by radio.

But we're now aware of suspicions/rumors regarding efforts by the Pats to get a leg up as to opposing offenses. Specifically, we're told that it's believed that, during the 2006 season, the Patriots were putting microphones on defensive linemen in order to capture the offensive line calls and the

quarterback audibles.

Then, the audio and the video of the game would be matched up, and the defensive players would be given the code at halftime.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Well there have been various reports saying their were inconsistincies and other weird things going on with the radios during the game. i figured it was the pats trying to steal the offensive plays, but who knows, it could have been something like this.

[rick34125]

WOW.

But it's just rumors. And it's anyone's guess if the source of the rumors is more than just a disgruntled non-Patriots fan.

I am so not surprised by this 'rumor'. I expect there to be others that won't surprise me as well. How about Foxboro? Is the visiting teams facilities bugged?

I said it before. Bill Belichick = Richard Nixon. Paranoid and will do anything not to lose.

[tparich]

Good man Gainzo, thanks for showing up.

I guess Garb must be making canolis or something.

I live in Jacksonville. There are no good canolis here at all. Damn it now i want one though.

[GreenBeans]

Panzer already has the JetsWiki (add your article today!) updated:

http://www.jetnation.com/JetsWiki/index.php/Belichick%2C_Bill?jn_website_jnwiki__session=b6d76ac6735546f23846c3734f260a7a

[crackbackblock]

Don't shoot the messenger--I think this is HIGHLY unlikely. If it had happened, we would have heard about it already. But for what it's worth...

POSTED 8:34 p.m. EDT, September 11, 2007

WERE PATS WIRING DEFENSIVE PLAYERS, TOO?

The situation regarding the New England

Patriots and the allegations/proof that they have stolen defensive signals is unofficially getting weirder.

The signal stealing flap is relevant only to defensive signals, since all offensive calls are made by radio.

But we're now aware of suspicions/rumors regarding efforts by the Pats to get a leg up as to opposing offenses. Specifically, we're told that it's believed that, during the 2006 season, the Patriots were putting microphones on defensive linemen in order to capture the offensive line calls and the

quarterback audibles.

Then, the audio and the video of the game would be matched up, and the defensive players would be given the code at halftime.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

One the the things mentioned yesterday was the league was looking into Patriots possibly messing with the radio frequencies. Maybe something like this is what that is all about

[rick34125]

Don't shoot the messenger--I think this is HIGHLY unlikely. If it had happened, we would have heard about it already. But for what it's worth...

POSTED 8:34 p.m. EDT, September 11, 2007

WERE PATS WIRING DEFENSIVE PLAYERS, TOO?

The situation regarding the New England

Patriots and the allegations/proof that they have stolen defensive signals is unofficially getting weirder.

The signal stealing flap is relevant only to defensive signals, since all offensive calls are made by radio.

But we're now aware of suspicions/rumors regarding efforts by the Pats to get a leg up as to opposing offenses. Specifically, we're told that it's believed that, during the 2006 season, the Patriots were putting microphones on defensive linemen in order to capture the offensive line calls and the quarterback audibles.

Then, the audio and the video of the game would be matched up, and the defensive players would be given the code at halftime.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Why do you think this is highly unlikely? Why do you think you would have heard about it? Technology is easy to hide. Unless the league is looking for this stuff who would know? And since its so easy to use why wouldn't a cheater like Belinixon use it?

[BP]

Panzer already has the JetsWiki (add your article today!) updated:

http://www.jetnation.com/JetsWiki/index.php/Belichick%2C_Bill?jn_website_jnwiki__session=b6d76ac6735546f23846c3734f260a7a

POTW nom for Panzer!

[Iceman88]

As I said the in another post. While PFT can be wrong the one thing I will say about them is they don't get their information from random emails from disgruntled fans. This came to them by a connection the have probably with an NFL front office. While its possible it could be from a disgruntled team employee it has a lot more credibility than some random email.

[JetCane]

Though no disciplinary action by the league ever resulted, the Patriots last year were reportedly the impetus of a sternly written letter from the league office to all teams, reminding them that it was illegal for an advance scout or personnel official to bring a video recording device of any kind into the press box for the purposes of taping a potential opponent's signals or play-calling gestures from the sideline.

"The more money that's at stake, the more it's like spy versus spy,'' a league source said.

When i posted this pic last week, who knew??

[flgreen]

Why do you think this is highly unlikely? Why do you think you would have heard about it? Technology is easy to hide. Unless the league is looking for this stuff who would know? And since its so easy to use why wouldn't a cheater like Belinixon use it?

Lil Bill would have to be a raving idiot to be illegally wiring players in today's NFL.

I'm not saying he wouldn't do it for any moral reason, it would just be suicide.

Players are transient. If they wire a guy this week, and cut him next week, then the Jets call him in for an "interview", he might be angry and spill the beans. To dangerous.

On the other hand it wasn't to bright putting a camera on the side line against a coach who was with him, during a time he was doing the same kind of cheating. I'm sure he did that.

This could get interesting

[shutout]

Lil Bill would have to be a raving idiot to be illegally wiring players in today's NFL.

I'm not saying he wouldn't do it for any moral reason, it would just be suicide.

Players are transient. If they wire a guy this week, and cut him next week, then the Jets call him in for an "interview", he might be angry and spill the beans.

For arguements sake though, they could just make sure to wire someone who they have absolutely no intention of cutting (i.e a Seymour,Wilfork,Brushi type)....or you look at from the other side when a player gets cut and is angry and wants to spill the beans, you'd have to wonder whether he was being honest or just trying to piss off the former team.

Complete rumor at this point, but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to think a team (any team for that matter,not just one that recently got caught) could pull off wiring defensive players as long as they trusted the right players,coaches,and tech guys that'd set it all up.

[rick34125]

Lil Bill would have to be a raving idiot to be illegally wiring players in today's NFL.

I'm not saying he wouldn't do it for any moral reason, it would just be suicide.

Players are transient. If they wire a guy this week, and cut him next week, then the Jets call him in for an "interview", he might be angry and spill the beans. To dangerous.

On the other hand it wasn't to bright putting a camera on the side line against a coach who was with him, during a time he was doing the same kind of cheating. I'm sure he did that.

This could get interesting

who says the player knows? they could bug a lineman's helmet without his knowing.

[crackbackblock]

Lil Bill would have to be a raving idiot to be illegally wiring players in today's NFL.

I'm not saying he wouldn't do it for any moral reason, it would just be suicide.

Players are transient. If they wire a guy this week, and cut him next week, then the Jets call him in for an "interview", he might be angry and spill the beans. To dangerous.

On the other hand it wasn't to bright putting a camera on the side line against a coach who was with him, during a time he was doing the same kind of cheating. I'm sure he did that.

This could get interesting

flgreen- but i am sure there are players that BB knows he can go to. i think guys like Bruschi or Vrable would be willing to do anything to help the team win. they aren't going anywhere either. they will be re-signed before hitting the open market and they will not be traded.