Am i the only guy here who doesnt want Favre?

[TNJet]

I want Clemens over anyone else at this time. A JET qb,not an over the hill Packer for lifer...Favre isnt the answer to the superbowl boys lemme tell ya,if so he wouldve won more than only one ring with those dozens of contending teams in GB year in and year out. I also dont want him stepping in and trying to rule the team like he did in GB,living by his own big ego rules,and being a classless player that deep down everyone here knows he truly is. We HAVE to give Kellen a chance,we may have a great qb of our own but mite end up wasting 3 more years of his career on the bench just because of Brett. Clemens with our oline the way it is this year is 10-11 wins easily if you ask me. The biggest strength of his is that he is unknown at the moment and yes teams wont plan for him until,its too late and hes threw 3 tds on them in the 4th. I remember we took a chance on an unknown young qb in 2002 in week 4 and went on to go 10-6 for the year and to the afc championship that year and won the afc east also...Chad,the unknown in 02. Now it will be Kellen the unknown that we will love when we're 11-5,and going deep in the playoffs with him like I honestly beleive we can do,without Brett,who is just as sporatic at making decisions and bad judgement throws now,as Kellen,and is 38 yrs old. No thanks,lets grow with our young gun that may be a diamond in the rough once he gets a chance to succeed behind a good line and a good defense this year.

[scionce]

hate to quote wacko-jacko, but you are not alone.

i've rifled off reason after reason on why it just wouldn't work out the way the dreamers envision it, but it's like offering the option of an unflattering, yet practical, hydrogen fuel cell car or a 0-60 in under 4 seconds, lambo murcielago to a car lover, there's just no talking him/her into it. everyone talks about how integral the QB is, but they all seem to disregard chemistry, which doesn't come overnight and isn't easily attained. but i'm the jack@ss for not "reading" what they said about brett's td/int ratio and how it directly correlates to his mental aptitude. don't show me last year's numbers... they've got sh!t to do with this year. oh! and don't make common football sense opinions on this whole favre situation, 'cause the fanboys really have a hard time applying logic.

[Thor99]

I think that I'm the only one here who doesn't really care either way.

Our QB situation stinks right now, and I'm hoping that with a better o line and running game that Clemens can take hold of the job.

I don't really think that Farve would help all that much.

[scionce]

I think that I'm the only one here who doesn't really care either way.

Our QB situation stinks right now, and I'm hoping that with a better o line and running game that Clemens can take hold of the job.

I don't really think that Farve would help all that much.

you're lucky in that you have a neutral perspective. whereas i see going after favre as a potential waste of time and cap space for something that doesn't automatically guarantee 5+ wins better than what we can put out on the field now. man, i know someone's gonna get at me with the, "did you even see any of what he did last year" routine.

i definitely agree with you on clemens. at this point chad sadly should be holding a clipboard, using that venue to coach/mentor clemens. i honestly believe if the kid could learn to read and think like pennington, he could be a very formidable QB. and before anyone thinks of bringing up penny learning clemens the pick-six out, understand that clemens is too strong-armed to do that.

[BwanaZulia]

Nope.

BZ

[Sperm Edwards]

At some point, it's going to seem like the team is a compilation of free agents rather than the Jets. Yeah, I know we've sucked for a long time & there are 9000 ways - almost all of them true - that anything's better than the crap we saw last year. But (not that he's coming here anyway) with a larger-than-life player Favre added to the list of people we've brought in, it wouldn't seem as much like a Jets team.

It's not that we'd be bringing in another free agent - it's that we'd be bringing in a sure-fire HOF QB to add to the $140M or whatever in new players we already added this year. And it's not the same as when we brought Vinny in because he was added to the team to be the backup & had his best season. It was a surprise for him to play so well so consistently. And that was what made it great to me.

And even though Faneca was the most sought-after FA and we ended up getting him, he's one player like that. Woody &

It's hard to explain. It would be like watching what the Yankees & others do with the number of high-priced players they bring in. I couldn't understand why to root for a bunch of guys who were stars for a different team the prior season. And but for the good fortune of an owner with enough money & ego to sign so many of them, these players aren't Yankees. The stupidity & ensuing boredom for the entire sport that ensues when one (or a select few teams) bring in star after star. And I don't even hate the Yankees or the Mets or the Re---. Ok, I hate the Red Sox. Some things from childhood cannot be undone.

What I mean is it's the opposite of how it seemed for the Giants this past year. They weren't winners of any free-agent lotteries & lost the one that most NFL fans thought was their best current player (Barber); a star & one of the game's better talents at another position (Shockey); Burress had been injured for weeks; Kiwanuka was on IR since mid-November; they went into the season with (whate seemed like) 4 offensive linemen, with no left tackle. And then won the supebowl over the Goliath Patriots. The excitement of the 4th quarter only added to it.

Like I said, it's hard to explain. But somehow, even a superbowl win wouldn't be as enjoyable if it was because we added a mega-star -- at the QB position no less -- like Brett Favre. Hell yes I'd enjoy it more than last year's garbage. But it wouldn't have the, "This is what I've been waiting my whole life for" feel to it. Or not so much anyway.

None of this really matters. He's not coming here & doesn't want to come here anyway.

[Kentucky Jet]

I want Clemens over anyone else at this time. A JET qb,not an over the hill Packer for lifer...Favre isnt the answer to the superbowl boys lemme tell ya,if so he wouldve won more than only one ring with those dozens of contending teams in GB year in and year out. I also dont want him stepping in and trying to rule the team like he did in GB,living by his own big ego rules,and being a classless player that deep down everyone here knows he truly is. We HAVE to give Kellen a chance,we may have a great qb of our own but mite end up wasting 3 more years of his career on the bench just because of Brett. Clemens with our oline the way it is this year is 10-11 wins easily if you ask me. The biggest strength of his is that he is unknown at the moment and yes teams wont plan for him until,its too late and hes threw 3 tds on them in the 4th. I remember we took a chance on an unknown young qb in 2002 in week 4 and went on to go 10-6 for the year and to the afc championship that year and won the afc east also...Chad,the unknown in 02. Now it will be Kellen the unknown that we will love when we're 11-5,and going deep in the playoffs with him like I honestly beleive we can do,without Brett,who is just as sporatic at making decisions and bad judgement throws now,as Kellen,and is 38 yrs old. No thanks,lets grow with our young gun that may be a diamond in the rough once he gets a chance to succeed behind a good line and a good defense this year.

I feel as you do. I want to develop a QB that can be a big winner for many years. CHAD or FAVRE are old and will not be here in a few years. Chad is a limited winner against poor teams and Brett can beat them all, good and bad alike.. If I had to take an older QB, I take Brett. BUT I want the young guys on our team to get a real shot at developing into a FRANCHISE- type QB capable of winning many SUPER BOWLS.

[Irish Jet]

At some point, it's going to seem like the team is a compilation of free agents rather than the Jets. Yeah, I know we've sucked for a long time & there are 9000 ways - almost all of them true - that anything's better than the crap we saw last year. But (not that he's coming here anyway) with a larger-than-life player Favre added to the list of people we've brought in, it wouldn't seem as much like a Jets team.

It's not that we'd be bringing in another free agent - it's that we'd be bringing in a sure-fire HOF QB to add to the $140M or whatever in new players we already added this year. And it's not the same as when we brought Vinny in because he was added to the team to be the backup & had his best season. It was a surprise for him to play so well so consistently. And that was what made it great to me.

And even though Faneca was the most sought-after FA and we ended up getting him, he's one player like that. Woody &

It's hard to explain. It would be like watching what the Yankees & others do with the number of high-priced players they bring in. I couldn't understand why to root for a bunch of guys who were stars for a different team the prior season. And but for the good fortune of an owner with enough money & ego to sign so many of them, these players aren't Yankees. The stupidity & ensuing boredom for the entire sport that ensues when one (or a select few teams) bring in star after star. And I don't even hate the Yankees or the Mets or the Re---. Ok, I hate the Red Sox. Some things from childhood cannot be undone.

What I mean is it's the opposite of how it seemed for the Giants this past year. They weren't winners of any free-agent lotteries & lost the one that most NFL fans thought was their best current player (Barber); a star & one of the game's better talents at another position (Shockey); Burress had been injured for weeks; Kiwanuka was on IR since mid-November; they went into the season with (whate seemed like) 4 offensive linemen, with no left tackle. And then won the supebowl over the Goliath Patriots. The excitement of the 4th quarter only added to it.

Like I said, it's hard to explain. But somehow, even a superbowl win wouldn't be as enjoyable if it was because we added a mega-star -- at the QB position no less -- like Brett Favre. Hell yes I'd enjoy it more than last year's garbage. But it wouldn't have the, "This is what I've been waiting my whole life for" feel to it. Or not so much anyway.

None of this really matters. He's not coming here & doesn't want to come here anyway.

Wow, are you serious?

I see your point but I genuinely wouldn't give a rats ass how we win the SB or who we win it with. I have nothing against Favre or any of the players we have brought and would see no reason to cheer any less for him than I would for Penny or Clemens. I'd treat the team the exact same way.

[Sperm Edwards]

Wow, are you serious?

I see your point but I genuinely wouldn't give a rats ass how we win the SB or who we win it with. I have nothing against Favre or any of the players we have brought and would see no reason to cheer any less for him than I would for Penny or Clemens. I'd treat the team the exact same way.

Yes, I am serious.

I didn't say I would spit at a superbowl won with Brett Favre.

But I would be lying if I said I would appreciate it as much, or if it would be this religious experience I (like so many others) have built it up to be. "Buying" a championship just isn't the same. And yes, I would like to win one so I could then be spoiled enough to determine what Lombardi Trophy would be deemed worthy of my praise. It's not as stupid as that.

And the articles & posts we've all read - many of them littered with silliness like the "credibility" it gives the team. What does that even mean? How the hell does "credibility" mean you're going to win one more game than you would have otherwise?

And Favre has shown he's quite capable of QB'ing a team that goes 8-8, or 4-12 (which are the two records I see Fave-ites saying we're doomed to otherwise). Prior to 2007, that was the Packers' very record with Favre. During which, for those who are ga-ga over his 95 qb rating last year, his rating was 70 or lower in 16 of those 32 games. Given his age, and the fact that that's how he's performed in 2 of his last 3 seasons, and the level of competition that boosted his qb rating up even in 2007, it seems more likely than not that he won't be putting up any more 95 qb ratings. He didn't just feast on some lowly opponents; he really piled it on against them (10 TD's and 0 INT's against division-rivals Minnesota & Detroit, neither of whom had any semblance of a pass defense. Against the Bears, it was 1 TD and 4 INT's. The year before, against the Bears, he had 0 TD's and 6 INT's). And I can't believe that's mere coincidence. A defense designed to take away the big play will not stop him from forcing a ball into triple coverage for a pick at any time in the game.

That's not to say he hasn't had one of the greatest careers of any NFL QB. Or that his talent for improvisation - successful improvisation - is so common in other QB's that it is to be dismissed so cavalierly. But people are behaving as though his s**t doesn't stink in Johnmaddenesque fashion. His performance against top defenses isn't all that different than Pennington's, other than his passes traveling farther and with greater velocity.

It's all moot anyway. He's already communicated that he doesn't want to come here. So there's really nothing to argue about.

[Irish Jet]

Yes, I am serious.

I didn't say I would spit at a superbowl won with Brett Favre.

But I would be lying if I said I would appreciate it as much, or if it would be this religious experience I (like so many others) have built it up to be. "Buying" a championship just isn't the same. And yes, I would like to win one so I could then be spoiled enough to determine what Lombardi Trophy would be deemed worthy of my praise. It's not as stupid as that.

And the articles & posts we've all read - many of them littered with silliness like the "credibility" it gives the team. What does that even mean? How the hell does "credibility" mean you're going to win one more game than you would have otherwise?

And Favre has shown he's quite capable of QB'ing a team that goes 8-8, or 4-12 (which are the two records I see Fave-ites saying we're doomed to otherwise). Prior to 2007, that was the Packers' very record with Favre. During which, for those who are ga-ga over his 95 qb rating last year, his rating was 70 or lower in 16 of those 32 games. Given his age, and the fact that that's how he's performed in 2 of his last 3 seasons, and the level of competition that boosted his qb rating up even in 2007, it seems more likely than not that he won't be putting up any more 95 qb ratings. He didn't just feast on some lowly opponents; he really piled it on against them (10 TD's and 0 INT's against division-rivals Minnesota & Detroit, neither of whom had any semblance of a pass defense. Against the Bears, it was 1 TD and 4 INT's. The year before, against the Bears, he had 0 TD's and 6 INT's). And I can't believe that's mere coincidence. A defense designed to take away the big play will not stop him from forcing a ball into triple coverage for a pick at any time in the game.

That's not to say he hasn't had one of the greatest careers of any NFL QB. Or that his talent for improvisation - successful improvisation - is so common in other QB's that it is to be dismissed so cavalierly. But people are behaving as though his s**t doesn't stink in Johnmaddenesque fashion. His performance against top defenses isn't all that different than Pennington's, other than his passes traveling farther and with greater velocity.

It's all moot anyway. He's already communicated that he doesn't want to come here. So there's really nothing to argue about.

Oh there's something to argue about alright.

This has nothing to do with Favre or not but more to do about the feelings you described towards winning a Superbowl with Favre at QB. I'm interested as to why you say 'buying' a championship wouldn't be same. We signed some big name free agents in areas of need and yes we spent a lot of money but it's not like we've broken any rules. It's not like there is zero young drafted talent throughout the team. (Rhodes, Revis, Harris, Leon, Brick, Mangold, Cotchery etc.)

Personally I don't see how you could see it any differently, but maybe that's just me.

Look at the Pats, heck they cheated and that hasn't killed their enthusiasm.

[Sperm Edwards]

Oh there's something to argue about alright.

This has nothing to do with Favre or not but more to do about the feelings you described towards winning a Superbowl with Favre at QB. I'm interested as to why you say 'buying' a championship wouldn't be same. We signed some big name free agents in areas of need and yes we spent a lot of money but it's not like we've broken any rules. It's not like there is zero young drafted talent throughout the team. (Rhodes, Revis, Harris, Leon, Brick, Mangold, Cotchery etc.)

Personally I don't see how you could see it any differently, but maybe that's just me.

Look at the Pats, heck they cheated and that hasn't killed their enthusiasm.

Favre is not like other free agents. Anyone (who does not have Thor obstructing his view) could see that.

[124]

Favre has not communicated that he doesn't want to come here. If he had this would be all over NFL.com, NFL Network, ESPN.com and ESPN. Just because some "know it all" ESPN analyst predicts Favre doesn't want to come to New York doesn't mean its true. Until I read it or here it from NFL, the Favre saying he won't come to the Jets RUMORS are false.

[Irish Jet]

Favre is not like other free agents.

That's true and it is a completely unique situation but if the Jets sign him and the Jets sign him legally then I wouldn't root for him any less than I would anyone else.

I can understand your viewpoint though.

[GandWFan]

Favre is not like other free agents. Anyone (who does not have Thor obstructing his view) could see that.

Actually, the Jets have a history of bringing in veteran recently successful QBs. Vinny, Boomer, and O'Donnell may not be of the calibur of Farve, but it is not unprecedented in Jets history. If one of those other guys had won it all, would you feel the same way? How about when Cumar came here from the Pats, the biggest coup in team history. If he took the Jets to the SB in his first season here, would you not have a 'religious experience'? At that point he was mostly identified with the Pats.

I would LOVE to see Favre in green and white. I am tired of mediocre QB play and hoping each year that it will get better. I'll take a proven winner, thank you.

[KSJets]

Favre has not communicated that he doesn't want to come here. If he had this would be all over NFL.com, NFL Network, ESPN.com and ESPN. Just because some "know it all" ESPN analyst predicts Favre doesn't want to come to New York doesn't mean its true. Until I read it or here it from NFL, the Favre saying he won't come to the Jets RUMORS are false.

Actually, if Favre came out and said he didn't want to play for the Jets, there would still be plenty of people around here not believing it. Sadly, they would blame it on the FO as well saying stupid **** like "they should have offered him $30million to come here".

[SoFlaJets]

I sort of can understand how Spermy feels about the whole not feeling it as much with a bought team but that being said-who wouldn't like to see a Jets QB throw 25-30 TD passes in 2008? It's been a long time guys-a decade since Vinny's career year

[PFSIKH]

Favre has not communicated that he doesn't want to come here. If he had this would be all over NFL.com, NFL Network, ESPN.com and ESPN. Just because some "know it all" ESPN analyst predicts Favre doesn't want to come to New York doesn't mean its true. Until I read it or here it from NFL, the Favre saying he won't come to the Jets RUMORS are false.

Well, he did say he was going to Packers camp. That was kind of a sign he does not want to goto Jersey.

This is purely speculation, but if Favre really wants to scratch that itch of playing. Then we would be innudated with 100s or more likely 1000s of Breaking News reports on ESPN saying the Jets and Packers are negotiating the trade.

Seeing we are not, Farve likely has conditions on his playing conditions. One of which is probably not running the AFC gauntlet to the Superbowl.

[Sperm Edwards]

The whole reason to get Favre, presumably, is to help us get over the hump against better defenses. This isn't 1997 anymore. The past 3 years is he really any better than anyone else against these types of teams?

2007:

(1) Phi: 23/42 - 206 - 0 - 1

(5) Chi: 29/40 - 322 - 1 - 2

(6) Was: 19/37 - 188 - 0 -2

(13) Dal: 5/14 - 56 - 0 - 2

(16) Chi: 17/32 - 153 - 0 - 2

TOTAL = 93/165 - 925 YDS - 1 TD - 9 INT's (QB rating = 51.7 for those who value this stat)

2006:

(keep in mind this excludes his crappy December games vs Detroit & Minnesota: 0 TD's, 5 INT's)

(1) Chi: 15/29 - 170 - 0 - 2

(4) Phi: 22/44 - 205 - 0 - 2

(9) Buf: 28/47 - 287 - 1 - 2

(11) NE: 5/15 - 73 - 0 - 0

(12) Sea: 22/36 - 266 - 1 - 3

(13) NYJ: 24/47 - 214 - 1 - 2

(17) Chi: 21/42 - 285 - 1 - 1

TOTAL: 137/260 - 1500 YDS - 4 TD's - 12 INT's (QB rating = 55.9)

2005:

(again, this doesn't include meltdowns against Cincy and both Detroit games: 1 TD, 8 INT's)

(3) TB: 14/24 - 195 - 2 - 3

(4) Car: 28/47 - 303 - 4 - 1 (the only good one of the bunch)

(9) Pit: 20/35 - 214 - 0 - 1

(12) Phi: 15/33 - 171 - 1 - 2

(13) Chi: 31/58 - 277 - 0 - 2

(15) Bal: 14/29 - 144 - 0 - 2

(16) Chi: 30/51 - 351 - 0 - 4

(17) Sea: 21/37 - 259 - 1 - 1

TOTAL: 173/314 - 1880 YDS - 8 TD's - 16 INT's (QB rating = 60.2)

And this is what would lead us past the likely AFC playoff teams like NE, Indy, SD, Pittsburgh, and Jacksonville? If the teams outlined above held opposing QB's to those numbers, each of them would be considered among the most devastatingly tough pass defenses in NFL history. If Pennington or Clemens put up these numbers (and like the Packers, the Jets lost 16 of these 20 games), fans all over the tri-state area would be calling for their heads, listing the many ways in which they suck.

Please. It's not the 2007 Lions & Vikings pass defenses we have to get past to get to the Superbowl.

[PFSIKH]

(4) Car: 28/47 - 303 - 4 - 1 (the only good one of the bunch)

Just for the record, the Packers lost that game 32-29. Carolina at one point led by 19. This game seems like Brett padding his numbers with two late TDs to make his number look good.

[nyjunc]

I want Clemens over anyone else at this time. A JET qb,not an over the hill Packer for lifer...Favre isnt the answer to the superbowl boys lemme tell ya,if so he wouldve won more than only one ring with those dozens of contending teams in GB year in and year out. I also dont want him stepping in and trying to rule the team like he did in GB,living by his own big ego rules,and being a classless player that deep down everyone here knows he truly is. We HAVE to give Kellen a chance,we may have a great qb of our own but mite end up wasting 3 more years of his career on the bench just because of Brett. Clemens with our oline the way it is this year is 10-11 wins easily if you ask me. The biggest strength of his is that he is unknown at the moment and yes teams wont plan for him until,its too late and hes threw 3 tds on them in the 4th. I remember we took a chance on an unknown young qb in 2002 in week 4 and went on to go 10-6 for the year and to the afc championship that year and won the afc east also...Chad,the unknown in 02. Now it will be Kellen the unknown that we will love when we're 11-5,and going deep in the playoffs with him like I honestly beleive we can do,without Brett,who is just as sporatic at making decisions and bad judgement throws now,as Kellen,and is 38 yrs old. No thanks,lets grow with our young gun that may be a diamond in the rough once he gets a chance to succeed behind a good line and a good defense this year.

I don't want him either. He's old, he'd be coming to a new system for the first time in 16 years, he'd have no offseason to learn that system, he has been mostly medicore this decade w/ the exception of last year, he still choked in the playoffs and has been an awful playoff QB this decade. The man is 2-5 in the weak NFC w/ 3 home losses, as bad as you guys think Chad has been he's been 2-3 in the much tougher conf. Chad lost at Oak, Pitt and NE while Brett lost at home to Atlanta, Minnesota(8-8 Minnesota) and the Giants and he lost on the road at SL(threw SIX INTs) and Philly. This move just doesn't make much sense for us considering we'd have to pay him and give up picks.

[Irish Jet]

Just for the record, the Packers lost that game 32-29. Carolina at one point led by 19. This game seems like Brett padding his numbers with two late TDs to make his number look good.

Or maybe he was making a comeback that came up short?

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't want him either. He's old, he'd be coming to a new system for the first time in 16 years, he'd have no offseason to learn that system, he has been mostly medicore this decade w/ the exception of last year, he still choked in the playoffs and has been an awful playoff QB this decade. The man is 2-5 in the weak NFC w/ 3 home losses, as bad as you guys think Chad has been he's been 2-3 in the much tougher conf. Chad lost at Oak, Pitt and NE while Brett lost at home to Atlanta, Minnesota(8-8 Minnesota) and the Giants and he lost on the road at SL(threw SIX INTs) and Philly. This move just doesn't make much sense for us considering we'd have to pay him and give up picks.

Everyone mark down on their calendars the time and date nyjunc and I agreed on something.

[PFSIKH]

Or maybe he was making a comeback that came up short?

Either way, the score was 32-13 in the 4th. He threw 2 TDs to close the gap. Probably had over 100 yards as well. So when the game was relelvant he was ineffective. When the game became out of hand and the Panthers probably pulled their starters he beat up the second team.

His one good game has an asterik.

[kelticwizard]

One of the things I have to laugh at is the fact that the people who don't want Favre are also the people who seem to hate Pennington the most.

Chad stunk last year playing behind a line that couldn't block consistently. He might even have stunk slightly worse than Kellen stunk playing behind the same line. The only real difference between the two is that Chad has several years of pretty good play for the Jets, leading them to the playoffs several times, and Kellen does not.

As a result the Kellen boosters post incessantly that Chad's good years really weren't good at all, and are therefore to be disregarded. Over and over they go on how it doesn't matter if Chad does frequently get us to the playoffs, he could NEVER get us to the SuperBowl.

So what happens? It appears we might have a chance to get a guy who DID lead his team to the SuperBowl twice, last year took his team to within one overtime of going again, has been considered the gold standard of quarterbacking for the past 15 years-and they start telling us, "You know, the record indicates he's not really THAT good".

Well if Favre is not really that good, who IS really that good-Kellen?????

I don't know what Kool-Aid these people are drinking but do us a favor, please don't expect us to drink it. Kellen may have shown a few flashes and might actually turn out OK, but there's just as good a chance he'll turn out to be a dud. And we've seen Pennington play well when he wasn't hurt and do the team good, and we've seen Favre play spectacularly throughout his career. If you like the Clemens kid, fine. But don't think you can mindlessly run down his prospective competition repeatedly and expect us to do anything but laugh.

[Irish Jet]

Either way, the score was 32-13 in the 4th. He threw 2 TDs to close the gap. Probably had over 100 yards as well. So when the game was relelvant he was ineffective. When the game became out of hand and the Panthers probably pulled their starters he beat up the second team.

His one good game has an asterik.

Yeah, okay you're completely wrong.

I saw that game, think it was MNF. Favre nearly got the Pack into a position to tie the game at the end. I remember they got the ball back with over 2 minutes remaining and drove to like the Panthers 40 were the drive stalled.

The game was never irrelevent, it was almost a great comeback.

[nyjunc]

Everyone mark down on their calendars the time and date nyjunc and I agreed on something.

It was bound to happen sometime:cheers:

[Sperm Edwards]

It was bound to happen sometime:cheers:

You mean I say so much I was bound to be right about something?

[NFLs StepChild]

LOL - Gotta love the Beantown guy dealing out Asterisks...

Terrific.

[Sperm Edwards]

One of the things I have to laugh at is the fact that the people who don't want Favre are also the people who seem to hate Pennington the most.

Chad stunk last year playing behind a line that couldn't block consistently. He might even have stunk slightly worse than Kellen stunk playing behind the same line. The only real difference between the two is that Chad has several years of pretty good play for the Jets, leading them to the playoffs several times, and Kellen does not.

As a result the Kellen boosters post incessantly that Chad's good years really weren't good at all, and are therefore to be disregarded. Over and over they go on how it doesn't matter if Chad does frequently get us to the playoffs, he could NEVER get us to the SuperBowl.

So what happens? It appears we might have a chance to get a guy who DID lead his team to the SuperBowl twice, last year took his team to within one overtime of going again, has been considered the gold standard of quarterbacking for the past 15 years-and they start telling us, "You know, the record indicates he's not really THAT good".

Well if Favre is not really that good, who IS really that good-Kellen?????

I don't know what Kool-Aid these people are drinking but do us a favor, please don't expect us to drink it. Kellen may have shown a few flashes and might actually turn out OK, but there's just as good a chance he'll turn out to be a dud. And we've seen Pennington play well when he wasn't hurt and do the team good, and we've seen Favre play spectacularly throughout his career. If you like the Clemens kid, fine. But don't think you can mindlessly run down his prospective competition repeatedly and expect us to do anything but laugh.

What an overly simplistic way of summing up the situation (and the arguments from both sides).

No one here is or was advocating putting an already-under-contract-with-the-Jets Brett Favre on the bench in a backup role if our 3 QB's were Favre, Pennington, and Clemens.

[Irish Jet]

What an overly simplistic way of summing up the situation (and the arguments from both sides).

No one here is or was advocating putting an already-under-contract-with-the-Jets Brett Favre on the bench in a backup role if our 3 QB's were Favre, Pennington, and Clemens.

You're crazy. The Chad would beat him out. No contest.

[PFSIKH]

Yeah, okay you're completely wrong.

I saw that game, think it was MNF. Favre nearly got the Pack into a position to tie the game at the end. I remember they got the ball back with over 2 minutes remaining and drove to like the Panthers 40 were the drive stalled.

The game was never irrelevent, it was almost a great comeback.

They were down by 19 in the 4th. Brett was under 200 yards passing and the game was over when the D set things up by giving the offense the ball in the redzone.

Green Bay Packers (0-4-0) 7 0 6 16 29

Carolina Panthers (2-2-0) 7 16 3 6 32

CAR Kris Mangum 2 yard pass from Jake Delhomme (John Kasay kick) 0 7

GNB David Martin 21 yard pass from Brett Favre (Ryan Longwell kick) 7 7

CAR John Kasay 32 yard field goal 7 10

CAR Michael Gaines 19 yard pass from Jake Delhomme (kick failed) 7 16

CAR Stephen Davis 11 yard rush (John Kasay kick) 7 23

CAR John Kasay 38 yard field goal 7 26

GNB Donald Driver 26 yard pass from Brett Favre (pass failed) 13 26

CAR Stephen Davis 1 yard rush (pass failed) 13 32

GNB Donald Lee 16 yard pass from Brett Favre (David Martin pass from Brett Favre) 21 32

GNB Antonio Chatman 4 yard pass from Brett Favre (Robert Ferguson pass from Brett Favre) 29 32

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- Brett Favre stood alone at midfield, watching in frustrated disbelief as the Carolina Panthers celebrated the end of his improbable rally. It was vintage Favre, but despite his best efforts, the Green Bay Packers are off to their worst start in 17 years.

Favre threw four touchdown passes Monday night but couldn't overcome two early turnovers that the Panthers used to build a big lead, and Carolina held on for a 32-29 victory.

The Packers fell to 0-4 for the first time since 1988.

"It's hard to express in words how disappointed I am. I left it all on the field," Favre said. "I've never been 0-4, but it's a hand we've been dealt."

Rallying Green Bay from a 19-point deficit in the third quarter, Favre threw two touchdown passes and two 2-point conversions in the fourth quarter and had the Packers in position to win the game on their final drive.

But with running back Ahman Green sidelined by an injured knee and no timeouts, Favre had to do it all on his own when Green Bay got the ball back with 1:58 to play. He completed two passes before Carolina (2-2) stopped the Packers on a fourth-and-2.

Favre threw the ball to Donald Driver past the first down line, but Chris Gamble knocked the ball out of his hands and it fell incomplete.

"You definitely don't want to be in that situation with Brett Favre," said Carolina safety Mike Minter. "Once you give them a chance to get back in their rhythm, Brett Favre will be Brett Favre."

Favre, a 15-year veteran and future Hall of Famer who is possibly playing his final season, stood alone on the field as the Panthers celebrated.

One by one, the Panthers approached him in a show of respect. Among them was Mike Wahle, the left guard who spent seven seasons protecting Favre before signing with Carolina. The two embraced.

"You're never safe -- No. 4 can do some amazing things back there," Wahle said. "I've seen him do it many times."

Jake Delhomme threw two touchdown passes and Stephen Davis ran for two more as the Panthers built an early lead and put themselves in position to ride out an easy win.

Perhaps that's just where Favre wanted them.

"I was just praying for our defense to get a stop," Delhomme said. "He was awesome tonight. I'm just honored to be on the same field with him."

Delhomme was 17-of-24 for 206 yards and Davis carried 19 times for 51 yards. Steve Smith, who scored three touchdowns last week against Miami, caught only two passes for 12 yards.

"They tried to take Steve Smith out of the game, which they did a bit, but that opened up things for other people," Delhomme said.

Green, who ran for 119 yards and three TDs in a win over Carolina last season, was held to 36 yards before leaving the game with the leg injury in the third quarter.

Trailing 26-7 midway through the third quarter, Favre turned it up a level, and suddenly looked again like he was having fun doing it. He led by example on an 80-yard scoring drive, sprinting up the middle for a 12-yard gain on third-and-8 and finishing it off with a 26-yard TD pass to Driver.

Favre finished 28-of-47 for 303 yards and four touchdowns -- his 19th game of four or more touchdown passes, second to Dan Marino's record 21. The pass to Driver was Favre's 50th touchdown pass on Monday Night Football, second only to Marino's 74, and it cut Carolina's lead to 26-13.

The Panthers pushed it to 32-13 on Davis' second score of the game, a 1-yard run with 14:44 to play that gave them what seemed to be an insurmountable lead.

But after a Packers punt, Delhomme fumbled, Green Bay recovered and Favre made the Panthers pay for it one play later with a 16-yard scoring strike to Donald Lee.

His finest work, though, came on the Packers' next drive. Favre was 8-of-12 on a 90-yard march, hitting Antonio Chatman on a 4-yard touchdown in the back of the end zone.

Favre threw the 2-point conversion to Robert Ferguson to make it 32-29 with 3:07 to play.

But in the end, it was Favre's two early turnovers that he couldn't overcome.

He was sacked on the third play of the game, fumbling the ball away on Green Bay's 7-yard line. It took the Panthers three plays to turn that miscue into a touchdown, with Delhomme throwing a 2-yard TD pass to Kris Mangum for a 7-0 lead.

Favre shook off the mistake with a 10-play drive, tying the score on a 21-yard TD to David Martin.

Favre's second costly mistake right before the half as Green Bay was driving. His pass to Ferguson wasn't strong enough and Carolina corner Ken Lucas ripped it away for an interception.

The Packers were hit with two personal fouls on the play that pushed the ball to the Green Bay 32. Davis scored two plays later on an 11-yard run that put the Panthers up 23-7.

Kasay's 38-yard field goal in the third quarter made it 26-7.

[Irish Jet]

They were down by 19 in the 4th. Brett was under 200 yards passing and the game was over when the D set things up by giving the offense the ball in the redzone.

Green Bay Packers (0-4-0) 7 0 6 16 29

Carolina Panthers (2-2-0) 7 16 3 6 32

CAR Kris Mangum 2 yard pass from Jake Delhomme (John Kasay kick) 0 7

GNB David Martin 21 yard pass from Brett Favre (Ryan Longwell kick) 7 7

CAR John Kasay 32 yard field goal 7 10

CAR Michael Gaines 19 yard pass from Jake Delhomme (kick failed) 7 16

CAR Stephen Davis 11 yard rush (John Kasay kick) 7 23

CAR John Kasay 38 yard field goal 7 26

GNB Donald Driver 26 yard pass from Brett Favre (pass failed) 13 26

CAR Stephen Davis 1 yard rush (pass failed) 13 32

GNB Donald Lee 16 yard pass from Brett Favre (David Martin pass from Brett Favre) 21 32

GNB Antonio Chatman 4 yard pass from Brett Favre (Robert Ferguson pass from Brett Favre) 29 32

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- Brett Favre stood alone at midfield, watching in frustrated disbelief as the Carolina Panthers celebrated the end of his improbable rally. It was vintage Favre, but despite his best efforts, the Green Bay Packers are off to their worst start in 17 years.

Favre threw four touchdown passes Monday night but couldn't overcome two early turnovers that the Panthers used to build a big lead, and Carolina held on for a 32-29 victory.

The Packers fell to 0-4 for the first time since 1988.

"It's hard to express in words how disappointed I am. I left it all on the field," Favre said. "I've never been 0-4, but it's a hand we've been dealt."

Rallying Green Bay from a 19-point deficit in the third quarter, Favre threw two touchdown passes and two 2-point conversions in the fourth quarter and had the Packers in position to win the game on their final drive.

But with running back Ahman Green sidelined by an injured knee and no timeouts, Favre had to do it all on his own when Green Bay got the ball back with 1:58 to play. He completed two passes before Carolina (2-2) stopped the Packers on a fourth-and-2.

Favre threw the ball to Donald Driver past the first down line, but Chris Gamble knocked the ball out of his hands and it fell incomplete.

"You definitely don't want to be in that situation with Brett Favre," said Carolina safety Mike Minter. "Once you give them a chance to get back in their rhythm, Brett Favre will be Brett Favre."

Favre, a 15-year veteran and future Hall of Famer who is possibly playing his final season, stood alone on the field as the Panthers celebrated.

One by one, the Panthers approached him in a show of respect. Among them was Mike Wahle, the left guard who spent seven seasons protecting Favre before signing with Carolina. The two embraced.

"You're never safe -- No. 4 can do some amazing things back there," Wahle said. "I've seen him do it many times."

Jake Delhomme threw two touchdown passes and Stephen Davis ran for two more as the Panthers built an early lead and put themselves in position to ride out an easy win.

Perhaps that's just where Favre wanted them.

"I was just praying for our defense to get a stop," Delhomme said. "He was awesome tonight. I'm just honored to be on the same field with him."

Delhomme was 17-of-24 for 206 yards and Davis carried 19 times for 51 yards. Steve Smith, who scored three touchdowns last week against Miami, caught only two passes for 12 yards.

"They tried to take Steve Smith out of the game, which they did a bit, but that opened up things for other people," Delhomme said.

Green, who ran for 119 yards and three TDs in a win over Carolina last season, was held to 36 yards before leaving the game with the leg injury in the third quarter.

Trailing 26-7 midway through the third quarter, Favre turned it up a level, and suddenly looked again like he was having fun doing it. He led by example on an 80-yard scoring drive, sprinting up the middle for a 12-yard gain on third-and-8 and finishing it off with a 26-yard TD pass to Driver.

Favre finished 28-of-47 for 303 yards and four touchdowns -- his 19th game of four or more touchdown passes, second to Dan Marino's record 21. The pass to Driver was Favre's 50th touchdown pass on Monday Night Football, second only to Marino's 74, and it cut Carolina's lead to 26-13.

The Panthers pushed it to 32-13 on Davis' second score of the game, a 1-yard run with 14:44 to play that gave them what seemed to be an insurmountable lead.

But after a Packers punt, Delhomme fumbled, Green Bay recovered and Favre made the Panthers pay for it one play later with a 16-yard scoring strike to Donald Lee.

His finest work, though, came on the Packers' next drive. Favre was 8-of-12 on a 90-yard march, hitting Antonio Chatman on a 4-yard touchdown in the back of the end zone.

Favre threw the 2-point conversion to Robert Ferguson to make it 32-29 with 3:07 to play.

But in the end, it was Favre's two early turnovers that he couldn't overcome.

He was sacked on the third play of the game, fumbling the ball away on Green Bay's 7-yard line. It took the Panthers three plays to turn that miscue into a touchdown, with Delhomme throwing a 2-yard TD pass to Kris Mangum for a 7-0 lead.

Favre shook off the mistake with a 10-play drive, tying the score on a 21-yard TD to David Martin.

Favre's second costly mistake right before the half as Green Bay was driving. His pass to Ferguson wasn't strong enough and Carolina corner Ken Lucas ripped it away for an interception.

The Packers were hit with two personal fouls on the play that pushed the ball to the Green Bay 32. Davis scored two plays later on an 11-yard run that put the Panthers up 23-7.

Kasay's 38-yard field goal in the third quarter made it 26-7.

What is this supposed to prove?

[joewilly]

my hopes are pinned on clemens. if he ain't our guy we need to seriously get one as penny is not the answer and favre would be a big & costly mistake to aquire

[PFSIKH]

What is this supposed to prove?

The game was a blowout and that Favre got over 100 of his 300 yards in the fourth quarter after the game was already decided.

Is this not Pennyesque?

Favre is around 170 yards and 2 TDs entering the 4th, but two early turnovers build a huge lead for the other team. The other team scores to go up 32-13.

Favre follows with a three and out when the D forces a TO. Favre gets a quick TD and then drives the field on the next drive to make it a three point game.

With 2 minutes to go, Brett gets the ball back picks up a first down and moves into Panther territory only to come up short on a 4th and 2.

That sounds just like Penny.

[TaborJet]

At some point, it's going to seem like the team is a compilation of free agents rather than the Jets. Yeah, I know we've sucked for a long time & there are 9000 ways - almost all of them true - that anything's better than the crap we saw last year. But (not that he's coming here anyway) with a larger-than-life player Favre added to the list of people we've brought in, it wouldn't seem as much like a Jets team.

It's not that we'd be bringing in another free agent - it's that we'd be bringing in a sure-fire HOF QB to add to the $140M or whatever in new players we already added this year. And it's not the same as when we brought Vinny in because he was added to the team to be the backup & had his best season. It was a surprise for him to play so well so consistently. And that was what made it great to me.

And even though Faneca was the most sought-after FA and we ended up getting him, he's one player like that. Woody &

It's hard to explain. It would be like watching what the Yankees & others do with the number of high-priced players they bring in. I couldn't understand why to root for a bunch of guys who were stars for a different team the prior season. And but for the good fortune of an owner with enough money & ego to sign so many of them, these players aren't Yankees. The stupidity & ensuing boredom for the entire sport that ensues when one (or a select few teams) bring in star after star. And I don't even hate the Yankees or the Mets or the Re---. Ok, I hate the Red Sox. Some things from childhood cannot be undone.

What I mean is it's the opposite of how it seemed for the Giants this past year. They weren't winners of any free-agent lotteries & lost the one that most NFL fans thought was their best current player (Barber); a star & one of the game's better talents at another position (Shockey); Burress had been injured for weeks; Kiwanuka was on IR since mid-November; they went into the season with (whate seemed like) 4 offensive linemen, with no left tackle. And then won the supebowl over the Goliath Patriots. The excitement of the 4th quarter only added to it.

Like I said, it's hard to explain. But somehow, even a superbowl win wouldn't be as enjoyable if it was because we added a mega-star -- at the QB position no less -- like Brett Favre. Hell yes I'd enjoy it more than last year's garbage. But it wouldn't have the, "This is what I've been waiting my whole life for" feel to it. Or not so much anyway.

None of this really matters. He's not coming here & doesn't want to come here anyway.

Mr. Sperm

You have got to be kidding me. Are you saying you won't enjoy a SB win as much with Favre at the helm? Get real.

The only way you can enjoy a SB win is with a grass-roots campaign? Would it be even more enjoyable if the whole team was comprised of walk-ons and has-beens like Andre Wadsworth?

If Favre came here, he would be wearing a Jets uniform, not a GB uniform. The cheeseheads don't come with him. He comes to this team, and plays in this city for these fans.

I know who Favre is, and that he will be enshrined into the HOF as a Packer. No doubt. But if he comes here and delivers, I won't be putting an asterisk next to the Jets if they win the Super Bowl.