STATE YOUR HERMAN STANCE NOW!!!!!

[Bugg]

Bottom line-this is a big year. Martin, for all the faults I can point to, is still productive. Mawae isn't getting any younger. The pieces are in place. The window is open. And more importantly the competition in the division is stepping down-for now. Simply, the AFCE is there for the taking.

The Pats lose Weis and Crennel. That figures to be an adjustmentfor a year.

The Fins and Saban are going to be down this year, and trying to figure out if Sweet Rickey is the real deal or if he's trade fodder.

The Bills defense doesn't figure to outplay Lohsman's young QB mistakes.

And every one of those teams figures to be more together in 2006. So this is the year. NO FREAKING EXCUSES ALLOWED-NOT INJURIES, NOT BAD CALLS, NOT MENTAL ERRORS.ENOUGH BULLSPIT.

5 years is enough. Herm's spent 4 years pissing away solid gold chances. This is it. The window is open this year; it doesn't figure to be so in 2006. Win the division, get a 1st round bye,get in the Big game or be gone.

[Maxman]

Tell me Max?? Do you think the reason that the Jets were 6-10 in 03 had anything to do with Chad being hurt?? If so even a Blind Hermophile like you could see when the Tuna lost Vinny in 99 it may have been a factor in the 8-8 season! And just maybe with a year off from playing in Grohs 1 season Vinny was rusty when they went 9-7?

OK take away all the Tuna's picks and changes and in 97 Hermie comes in not the Tuna! Does he take the 1-15 Team to 9-7 the next year and 12-4 and to the championship game in year 2? Like Seifert it's EASY to Coach a Team that has your main people in Place! No Vinny or Chad aren't Montana or Young but they were both Winning QB's! I know you hate Facts or reality but if your gonna stick to the 3 out of 4 playoffs years then you MUST give Hackett credit for 3 of them and Fat Teddy 2!

Stop hitting the enter key. Word wrap is a wonderful thing!

[Maxman]

Stop hitting the enter key. Word wrap is a wonderful thing!

Savage I am not sure what the point is here. Are we comparing Herm to Parcells?

Herm is a good coach. Parcells\Belichek are Hall Of Fame coaches. Both who choose to not coach here. Those are the breaks.

[TomShane]

STOP GIVING HERM A PASS BECAUSE HE'S "NOT PARCELLS OR BELICHICK."

Thank you.

[Sperm Edwards]

Not that easy my friend. You are now saying the teams were good, not great. Yet you opened with a statement about Herm inheriting a team that was Super Bowl ready. That was simply not the case.

As far as your other points:

If Belly signed me that year, he would have still won the SuperBowl. I mean look at who he had playing corner last year. So the fact that he took a bunch of ex Jets and won with them isn't a knock on Herm. It unfortunately proves how well Belly has done up there.

Yes Herm's teams early in his tenure did start rough. This is his fault. Not sure where I ever wrote that Herm was without fault. He is a good coach. One who is getting better. He has made plenty of mistakes. As do all coaches. I thought Parcells walked on water. Then I say Leon Johnson float a ball into the end zone with the season on the line.

2003 was a bad year. A real bad year. He didn't lose the team though. The results certainly were not there.

I give Herm a B for last year. Hackett had to go. Look at the bigger picture. They were a few inches from the Championship game. But the team couldn't score. At all. Get rid of Hackett and hopefully fixz the scoring problem. Why stip the whole thing (fire Herm) when they were so close).

The jury is still out on Herm. I am confident in him. I am confident that he will get the job done this year. If he fails this year that is another story. But the team was close last year. They are more talented this year. They have a better coaching staff this year. Let it play out. But to make a final decision on Herm now just makes no sense.

C'mon Max. The team Herm inherited could have DEFINITELY gone to the SB. In August 2001, the Jets (missing the playoffs in '00 on a missed chip-shot FG) certainly showed more promise than the '00 5-11 Patriots. You make it sound like only a stroke of coaching genius brings a team that should've been 10-6 (at least) to the big dance.

LAST year there's no excuse for Herm retaining Hackett as the OC. Why bring that up? Because LAST year we had a schedule worth salivating over, particularly to start the season.

Herm gets his players "ready to play" all the time? If it's only sometimes he's no "master" at motivating. I submit:

2001 - We start out totally flat. Somehow, the Jets find themselves at 9-5 fighting for a playoff spot & luckily draw the Bills before the belated rescheduling of the Oakland game. Buffalo (then 2-12) had one win in their past 9 games...a 1-point victory against the 1-15 Panthers. Our "motivated" crew loses 14-9 against a severely overmatched Bills squad. In the season finale, John Hall improbably nails a 51-yarder as time expires. Jets go to the playoffs.

2002 - Despite a horrible start (there's that motivation to begin the season), we manage to get our sht together. Three games left. We get a lucky break having a game vs the (then) 3-10 Bears before drawing the SB champs & Green Bay. Our motivated crew gets spanked 20-13 while the Bears are playing for draft position & we're playing for our lives. Ends in a 3-way tie-breaker which we won. Jets win the division & go to the playoffs.

2003 - There's just too much here that's already been stated. Suffice to say, we were a better team personnel-wise than our 6-10 record demonstrated.

2004 - Again, we're in the playoff hunt late in the season. Started 5-0 playing a bunch of nobodies. Then went 4-5 over the next 9. The team laid down with their bellies exposed like my dog when she wants a tummy-rub vs NE. Still, we somehow are still in control of our own fate. We get the 7-8 Rams in the final game, who'd only just gotten smoked by the friggin' Cardinals two weeks earlier. We don't pull it out. Miraculously, Buffalo gets spanked by Pittsburgh's 2nd-teamers & we go to the playoffs.

I'd say this MASTER MOTIVATOR stuff is blown way out of proportion when we play like crap against crappy teams late in the season.

[PatsFanTX]

Herm gets his players "ready to play" all the time? If it's only sometimes he's no "master" at motivating. I submit:

2001 - We start out totally flat. Somehow, the Jets find themselves at 9-5 fighting for a playoff spot & luckily draw the Bills before the belated rescheduling of the Oakland game. Buffalo (then 2-12) had one win in their past 9 games...a 1-point victory against the 1-15 Panthers. Our "motivated" crew loses 14-9 against a severely overmatched Bills squad. In the season finale, John Hall improbably nails a 51-yarder as time expires. Jets go to the playoffs.

2002 - Despite a horrible start (there's that motivation to begin the season), we manage to get our sht together. Three games left. We get a lucky break having a game vs the (then) 3-10 Bears before drawing the SB champs & Green Bay. Our motivated crew gets spanked 20-13 while the Bears are playing for draft position & we're playing for our lives. Ends in a 3-way tie-breaker which we won. Jets win the division & go to the playoffs.

2003 - There's just too much here that's already been stated. Suffice to say, we were a better team personnel-wise than our 6-10 record demonstrated.

2004 - Again, we're in the playoff hunt late in the season. Started 5-0 playing a bunch of nobodies. Then went 4-5 over the next 9. The team laid down with their bellies exposed like my dog when she wants a tummy-rub vs NE. Still, we somehow are still in control of our own fate. We get the 7-8 Rams in the final game, who'd only just gotten smoked by the friggin' Cardinals two weeks earlier. We don't pull it out. Miraculously, Buffalo gets spanked by Pittsburgh's 2nd-teamers & we go to the playoffs.

I'd say this MASTER MOTIVATOR stuff is blown way out of proportion when we play like crap against crappy teams late in the season.

Even the Hermy lovers can't argue with those facts.

Master Motivator????

Right.

[Maxman]

STOP GIVING HERM A PASS BECAUSE HE'S "NOT PARCELLS OR BELICHICK."

Thank you.

No it is a fair point. They are both much better coaches. We hired them both. They both quit on this team. Herm replaced them and is the next best alternative.

Everyone says John Fox, Lewis, Denny Green etc. But until one of them gets it done they are all in the SAME boat.

Good coaches that are trying to be great. I say Herm gets to that point first. I say that Herm wins it all here before Fox, Green, Lewis.

[TomShane]

No it is a fair point. They are both much better coaches. We hired them both. They both quit on this team. Herm replaced them and is the next best alternative.

Everyone says John Fox, Lewis, Denny Green etc. But until one of them gets it done they are all in the SAME boat.

Good coaches that are trying to be great. I say Herm gets to that point first. I say that Herm wins it all here before Fox, Green, Lewis.

FOX, LEWIS, PARCELLS, BELICHICK, AND GREEN ARE ALL BUILDING OR HAVE BUILT TEAMS FROM THE GROUND UP. HERM HAS NOT. CARRY ON.

[Savage69]

Savage I am not sure what the point is here. Are we comparing Herm to Parcells?

Herm is a good coach. Parcells\Belichek are Hall Of Fame coaches. Both who choose to not coach here. Those are the breaks.

The point was Oh Blind one..You Hermophiles keep

saying Hermie took the Jets to the Playoffs 3 out

of 4 years that's more then the Tuna did!! You

are the one's comparing him to the Tuna!!

[PatsFanTX]

No it is a fair point. They are both much better coaches. We hired them both. They both quit on this team. Herm replaced them and is the next best alternative.

Everyone says John Fox, Lewis, Denny Green etc. But until one of them gets it done they are all in the SAME boat.

Good coaches that are trying to be great. I say Herm gets to that point first. I say that Herm wins it all here before Fox, Green, Lewis.

Just gotta chime in here and say this is probably the best debated thread since the inception of JN.

Great points made on both sides.

[Maxman]

FOX, LEWIS, PARCELLS, BELICHICK, AND GREEN ARE ALL BUILDING OR HAVE BUILT TEAMS FROM THE GROUND UP. HERM HAS NOT. CARRY ON.

Parcells won the SuperBowl with which team that he built? I mean if we are talking about getting close and losing in the SuperBowl that is another thing.

But I seem to remember George Young building those Giant teams. Here you go Bill...here is someone that we call Lawrence.

Fox has done a great job in Carolina. He hasn't won it all. Lewis? Cmon. He is the modern day Jerry Glanville. A great coordinator but will be known as a failure as a head coach.

Green built a nice thing in Minnesota. He took a franchise and made the playoffs with them every year. Oh wait that doesn't count because you blast Herm for doing the same thing.

[Warfish]

FOX, LEWIS, PARCELLS, BELICHICK, AND GREEN ARE ALL BUILDING OR HAVE BUILT TEAMS FROM THE GROUND UP. HERM HAS NOT. CARRY ON.

How many Parcells guys are starters this season Tom?? Because it seems the majority of starters are now "Herm Guys", not Parcells guys. So I would say 2005 will be a show-me year for Herm/Bradways "Built Team". Wouldn't you agree?

[Savage69]

No it is a fair point. They are both much better coaches. We hired them both. They both quit on this team. Herm replaced them and is the next best alternative.

Everyone says John Fox, Lewis, Denny Green etc. But until one of them gets it done they are all in the SAME boat.

Good coaches that are trying to be great. I say Herm gets to that point first. I say that Herm wins it all here before Fox, Green, Lewis.

So in your Mind Hermie has done a better Job then

Fox and Lewis who took over 1-15 and 2-14 Teams and

Fox made the Bowl even though he lost?? Yet Hermie

making just the playoffs is Great??

[Maxman]

So in your Mind Hermie has done a better Job then Fox and Lewis who took over 1-15 and 2-14 Teams and Fox made the Bowl even though he lost?? Yet Hermie making just the playoffs is Great??

Didn't we already talk about the enter key? WORDWRAP is a good thing. Just type freely!

No Fox and Lewis have done better jobs. But neither have won it all. And that is all I care about.

HERM has this team close to winning it all. It is going to happen this season. THIS SEASON. The Jets win the SuperBowl.

Then all this anti-herm talk will have been meaningless.

[Sperm Edwards]

Didn't we already talk about the enter key? WORDWRAP is a good thing. Just type freely!

No Fox and Lewis have done better jobs. But neither have won it all. And that is all I care about.

HERM has this team close to winning it all. It is going to happen this season. THIS SEASON. The Jets win the SuperBowl.

Then all this anti-herm talk will have been meaningless.

Just to keep what you stated in check:

Since Herm took the helm,

Philly, Carolina, Oakland (2x), StL (2x), Pit, Ten, Indy, Atlanta, & GB came close to winning it all.

We once came close to the championship game.

[TomShane]

How many Parcells guys are starters this season Tom?? Because it seems the majority of starters are now "Herm Guys", not Parcells guys. So I would say 2005 will be a show-me year for Herm/Bradways "Built Team". Wouldn't you agree?

Your core players on offense:

Chad, Mawae, Curtis Martin

Defense:

Ellis, Abraham, Vilma, Barton

Five Parcells guys. Two Herm linebackers. This is FIVE YEARS REMOVED FROM PARCELLS AND HIS GUYS ARE STILL THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Herm is dogsh*t. Carry on.

[Savage69]

Your core players on offense:

Chad, Mawae, Curtis Martin

Defense:

Ellis, Abraham, Vilma, Barton

Five Parcells guys. Two Herm linebackers. This is FIVE YEARS REMOVED FROM PARCELLS AND HIS GUYS ARE STILL THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Herm is dogsh*t. Carry on.

You forgot Fergy who just left this year but was

a starter for all Hermie's years!!Plus Fabini whose

a starter! Sowell whose the starting FB! Coles was

drafted by the Tuna!! :wink:

[Jetlag]

Starters on offense:

Pennington - Bill

Martin - Bill

Sowell - Bill

Fabini - Bill

Mawae - Bill

Coles - Bill

McCareins - Herm

Kendall - Herm

Moore - Herm

Jones - Herm

Jolley - Herm

6-5 ; Bill - Herm

Starters on defense:

Ellis - Bill

Abraham(?) - Bill, Thomas - Herm

Pouha - Herm

Robertson - Herm

Vilma - Herm

Barton - Herm

Hobson - Herm

Barrett - Herm

Coleman - Herm

Rhodes (or whoever starts at FS) - Herm

Miller / Law - Herm (Guarentee that Ray Mickens will not start)

9-2 ; Herm - Bill

P - Graham - Herm

K - Nugent - Herm

2-0 Herm

So overall it's 14-8 and if you include ST's it's 16- 8. Last years team ratio wasn't much different. So whose team is it?

[MrPatDynasty]

As long as you guys have Herm we have one less team to worry about winning

[Savage69]

Starters on offense:

Pennington - Bill

Martin - Bill

Sowell - Bill

Fabini - Bill

Mawae - Bill

Coles - Bill

McCareins - Herm

Kendall - Herm

Moore - Herm

Jones - Herm

Jolley - Herm

6-5 ; Bill - Herm

Starters on defense:

Ellis - Bill

Abraham(?) - Bill, Thomas - Herm

Pouha - Herm

Robertson - Herm

Vilma - Herm

Barton - Herm

Hobson - Herm

Barrett - Herm

Coleman - Herm

Rhodes (or whoever starts at FS) - Herm

Miller / Law - Herm (Guarentee that Ray Mickens will not start)

9-2 ; Herm - Bill

P - Graham - Herm

K - Nugent - Herm

2-0 Herm

So overall it's 14-8 and if you include ST's it's 16- 8. Last years team ratio wasn't much different. So whose team is it?

Who put all the All-Pro's on the Team Hermie??

Fine take them ALL OFF and does Hermie win anything?

[TomShane]

Starters on offense:

Pennington - Bill

Martin - Bill

Sowell - Bill

Fabini - Bill

Mawae - Bill

Coles - Bill

McCareins - Herm

Kendall - Herm

Moore - Herm

Jones - Herm

Jolley - Herm

6-5 ; Bill - Herm

Starters on defense:

Ellis - Bill

Abraham(?) - Bill, Thomas - Herm

Pouha - Herm

Robertson - Herm

Vilma - Herm

Barton - Herm

Hobson - Herm

Barrett - Herm

Coleman - Herm

Rhodes (or whoever starts at FS) - Herm

Miller / Law - Herm (Guarentee that Ray Mickens will not start)

9-2 ; Herm - Bill

P - Graham - Herm

K - Nugent - Herm

2-0 Herm

So overall it's 14-8 and if you include ST's it's 16- 8. Last years team ratio wasn't much different. So whose team is it?

Cool. Bill's players are going to the Hall of Fame, and your starting quarterback. But Herm lined up Sione Pouha and Bryan Thomas. Awesome.

[Jetlag]

Cool. Bill's players are going to the Hall of Fame, and your starting quarterback. But Herm lined up Sione Pouha and Bryan Thomas. Awesome.

So you don't like Vilma, Barton, DRob, or Coleman??

[LionelRichie]

Your core players on offense:

Chad, Mawae, Curtis Martin

Defense:

Ellis, Abraham, Vilma, Barton

Five Parcells guys. Two Herm linebackers. This is FIVE YEARS REMOVED FROM PARCELLS AND HIS GUYS ARE STILL THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Herm is dogsh*t. Carry on.

that is a garbage argument - every team that succeeds has carry-over players from the previous coaching staff. with that argument gruden has totally sh*t the bed in tampa even though he won a SB (he won with dungy's team and now they stink).

beyond that, TB makes personnel decisions not Herm. in the salary cap era how many starters or core players can you turn over in 5 years?

[Savage69]

that is a garbage argument - every team that succeeds has carry-over players from the previous coaching staff. with that argument gruden has totally Sh#t the bed in tampa even though he won a SB (he won with dungy's team and now they stink).

beyond that, TB makes personnel decisions not Herm. in the salary cap era how many starters or core players can you turn over in 5 years?

The point is it's alot easier to win with a Team

that has QB's in place the RB and 3/4's of your

D-line and all of your O-line and good 2 W/r's

which Hermie had in 2001!!

[joewilly]

good post fo_block

I for one don't give a rats ass where the 2005 squad came from.

with herm as head coach, the jets did well getting as far as they did last year.

good things happened this offseason with our oc.

here we are getting ready for the season & the whiners can't move past bashing our head coach. this is sad

[Maxman]

Just to keep what you stated in check:

Since Herm took the helm,

Philly, Carolina, Oakland (2x), StL (2x), Pit, Ten, Indy, Atlanta, & GB came close to winning it all.

We once came close to the championship game.

No that is not what I stated. My point is ALL OF THOSE TEAMS failed.

I am not concerned with getting close. Win it all. That's it.

Herm has failed until this point. I feel that will change this year.

[Sperm Edwards]

HERM has this team close to winning it all.

Is EXACTLY what you said.

[Maxman]

Not for nothing but you can't can't Coles as a Parcells guy. They traded Moss for him so at best it is a wash.

[Maxman]

Is EXACTLY what you said.

Sperm:

This is true. That is what I said. I am speaking to those who want Herm fired.

Is Herm a Hall Of Fame coach? Right now, no.

Does Herm deserve to be fired? Right now, no.

Could it go either way? Yes.

But Fox, Herm, Lewis and that whole list is just a bunch of guys that the jury is still out on.

[Sperm Edwards]

Not for nothing but you can't can't Coles as a Parcells guy. They traded Moss for him so at best it is a wash.

They lost him after Herm said he was our team's MVP (jacking up his price) and at the same time (with Wayne having a contract that made him uncuttable) snubbing his star WR (who was not under contract) by saying we needed to get bigger at WR.

So you CREDIT Herm for this???

Keep 'em coming, Max. I can always use the batting practice.

[Savage69]

Not for nothing but you can't can't Coles as a Parcells guy. They traded Moss for him so at best it is a wash.

Coles was a Hermie Guy?? The one that Hermie

called the Teams MVP and said he'd be a Jet

as long as Hermie was HC?? Tuna drafted him

to the Team!! Going by that then Cumar must

be a Hermie Guy also??

[Savage69]

Sperm:

This is true. That is what I said. I am speaking to those who want Herm fired.

Is Herm a Hall Of Fame coach? Right now, no.

Does Herm deserve to be fired? Right now, no.

Could it go either way? Yes.

But Fox, Herm, Lewis and that whole list is just a bunch of guys that the jury is still out on.

Here's a question for you Maxie!! What if the Dalai

Lama needed Hermie to take a year off and talk to

the Chinese about being nicer to the Tibetan people!

Not to mention no one can BBQ Yak like the Iron Chef!

If Hendu took over as HC and still ran the D do you

honestly think we would sink to a 2-14 record??

[LionelRichie]

If Hendu took over as HC and still ran the D do you

honestly think we would sink to a 2-14 record??

i think the team's record would decline with hendu at the helm, no doubt about it.

[Savage69]

i think the team's record would decline with hendu at the helm, no doubt about it.

Based on what?? Other than Mad Hermie Love??

[Bugg]

A zero BS football lifer like Hendu may not make the rounds with the media swells. But he's also plenty smart, and smart enough to know that as to the things he isn't totally up on with the offense to hire good help and ask questions. If tommorrow Edwards left for some reason, I'm pretty confident that Henderson could step in and do at least as good a job, and probably better.