STATE YOUR HERMAN STANCE NOW!!!!!

[Lady Jet]

Wow, this thread is huge. I'll have to save it for my morning reading.

But out of curiousity ... were the Pats fans voting in this poll as well?

If they were, then I would have to believe this is a tighter debate than I thought.

[Bugg]

Can't do it, Moses. Not allowed!As per BZ, BB excluded. SO we cannot compare the Master Motivator to his actual competiton. It's unfair or something. We must petition the NFL office a one game to 1/2 game handicap in the AFCE standings.

Now, these people that want to say-who would you hire? There are good coaches that come out on the market every year. And if anyone thinks that NFL teams are clamoring to hire Hermie, just give them that Ravens tape and it's over.

Owner-"Let me understand-he doesn't know how the game clock works-a critical part of the job, and the old guy he hired to help him with it is no help at all. We need another guy for part of the job every other HC does himself? Even then, he cannot do it. And he on 2 occasions called out his owner to fire him? No thanks".

[BwanaZulia]

Can't do it, Moses. Not allowed!As per BZ, BB excluded. SO we cannot compare the Master Motivator to his actual competiton. It's unfair or something. We must petition the NFL office a one game to 1/2 game handicap in the AFCE standings.

Now, these people that want to say-who would you hire? There are good coaches that come out on the market every year. And if anyone thinks that NFL teams are clamoring to hire Hermie, just give them that Ravens tape and it's over.

Owner-"Let me understand-he doesn't know how the game clock works-a critical part of the job, and the old guy he hired to help him with it is no help at all. We need another guy for part of the job every other HC does himself? Even then, he cannot do it. And he on 2 occasions called out his owner to fire him? No thanks".

Like I said, if you want to compare BB's first 4 years as HC and Herm's, you go right ahead. I bet you will be back here with some crap about what they both "inherited" and such. I guess that means a lot in year 2,3,4.

BZ

[Warfish]

Can't do it, Moses. Not allowed!As per BZ, BB excluded. SO we cannot compare the Master Motivator to his actual competiton. It's unfair or something. We must petition the NFL office a one game to 1/2 game handicap in the AFCE standings.

Now, these people that want to say-who would you hire? There are good coaches that come out on the market every year. And if anyone thinks that NFL teams are clamoring to hire Hermie, just give them that Ravens tape and it's over.

Owner-"Let me understand-he doesn't know how the game clock works-a critical part of the job, and the old guy he hired to help him with it is no help at all. We need another guy for part of the job every other HC does himself? Even then, he cannot do it. And he on 2 occasions called out his owner to fire him? No thanks".

The reason I, for one, say don't bother with a BB comparison is becuase I have already admitted, on more than one occasion, that BB is a better coach by far than Herm. That, I thought, was never in question.....

The question has always been: Who Else, and how the heck do you know THAT person will be better, exceed a 75% playoff season rate, and win us a ring? THAT is what I want to know, who that is AVAILABLE and WILLING to coach the Jets is better than what we have. Who out there will do BETTER than 2 and 6 vs. BB???

So far the most common answer is either Dinger or Donny.......which I admit makes me laugh, since both already coach for us in their chosen specialty.

So no, a BB comparison isn't fair or relevant, since we all agree BB, the three-time Super Bowl Coach and certified genius (and one of the best three coaches in NFL history possibly) is better than herm.

[Bugg]

In years 2 and 4 with the Pats, Bellichick won the Super Bowl. It was in all the papers.

If you're talking about the Browns, fair point. But he inherited a much worse team than Herm did(3-13 vs. 9-7). His first 2 years were marred by the Kosar mess, the last by the unprecedented disaster of Modell moving the team with a solid playoff team (11 wins-something Edwards hasn't ever done) in year 4 and in the middle 2 7-9s.

I'm this open-minded-DO SOMETHING BIG THIS YEAR.Otherwise,some of you should set an expiration date on your acceptance of mediocrity. There's been too much of it with this team for too long. Carpe freakin' diem already. Because Martin and Mawae will be a year older, Abraham will be long gone and the rest of the division will be better.

What pisses me off about the whole tenure of Herm is the "we'll get'em next time" BS. That's total crap. This franchise had chances that last few years, and with a better job by the CS it had a shot.It still does with the assembled talent this year. After that, I dunno.Dungy/Schotteneheimer/Boston Bruins losing in the playoffs is nothing much to brag about.

[LionelRichie]

So no, a BB comparison isn't fair or relevant, since we all agree BB, the three-time Super Bowl Coach and certified genius (and one of the best three coaches in NFL history possibly) is better than herm.

you leave out the fact that he was run out of town in Cleveland. Had they kept him maybe he could have brought 3 championships there instead. the same thing applies to Herm, let him learn and grow into a top an NFL head coach. i have supported him thus far so let's see what happens this year b/f crucifying the man. all in all his first 4 years were pretty good.

[The Troll]

you leave out the fact that he was run out of town in Cleveland. Had they kept him maybe he could have brought 3 championships there instead. the same thing applies to Herm, let him learn and grow into a top an NFL head coach. i have supported him thus far so let's see what happens this year b/f crucifying the man. all in all his first 4 years were pretty good.

The major difference between Belichick in Cleveland and Herm in New York is that Belichick was already an established X's and O's coach whenever he took over the Browns. Belichick had coordinator experience and he had a couple rings to show for it. Herm was never a coordinator. He was a secondary coach for a team that went no further than the NFC Championship game. Why he was hired over a guy like John Fox, who had just been the defensive coordinator of a Super Bowl team, is beyond me. Well, actually it isn't, but Savage can explain that one for you.

[Savage69]

Want to make a fair comparison for Rookie Coaches

that took over winning Teams as Kotite had me point

out! First 3 years at Philly Kotite was 29-19!

First 3 years at the 49's Seifert won 36 games

and a Super Bowl! Hermie won 25 games his first

3 years..The point is my Hermophile friends,when

Kotite and Seifert went to Teams that weren't set

up they Sucked Big Time!! Most of the time when a

New Coach comes to a Team he has to build it from

scratch! Qb,Rb,D-Line,O-line etc How nice it is

when all that work has been done plus you have 4

first rd choices in their second yr..Plus Coles

Yada yada yada!!

PS My stat site is down this Morning Seifert may

have won more then 36 his first 3 years..But you

get the point!! :wink:

[BwanaZulia]

Want to make a fair comparison for Rookie Coaches

that took over winning Teams as Kotite had me point

out! First 3 years at Philly Kotite was 29-19!

First 3 years at the 49's Seifert won 36 games

and a Super Bowl! Hermie won 25 games his first

3 years..The point is my Hermophile friends,when

Kotite and Seifert went to Teams that weren't set

up they Sucked Big Time!! Most of the time when a

New Coach comes to a Team he has to build it from

scratch! Qb,Rb,D-Line,O-line etc How nice it is

when all that work has been done plus you have 4

first rd choices in their second yr..Plus Coles

Yada yada yada!!

PS My stat site is down this Morning Seifert may

have won more then 36 his first 3 years..But you

get the point!! :wink:

Didn't you miss a year? Why not include the 4th year and compare it to other 4 years? Do we just get to throw one out?

BZ

[Preston Howley III]

17 pages and I still haven't even mentioned Ruben Carter. But why bother? All I get from the "70%" contingency is what I always get:

"Playoffs 3 out of 4 years".

Us Herman-Terminators would have a better shot de-programming a Hari Krishna.

[Preston Howley III]

Herm's first week on the job:

Cut Bryan Cox, Shane Burton, and Rick Lyle. I guess they didn't kss his @ss.

[Scott Dierking]

Want to make a fair comparison for Rookie Coaches

that took over winning Teams as Kotite had me point

out! First 3 years at Philly Kotite was 29-19!

First 3 years at the 49's Seifert won 36 games

and a Super Bowl! Hermie won 25 games his first

3 years..The point is my Hermophile friends,when

Kotite and Seifert went to Teams that weren't set

up they Sucked Big Time!! Most of the time when a

New Coach comes to a Team he has to build it from

scratch! Qb,Rb,D-Line,O-line etc How nice it is

when all that work has been done plus you have 4

first rd choices in their second yr..Plus Coles

Yada yada yada!!

Your point is rather confusing, because the point you seem to be trying to make is that head coaches really don't make that much of a difference, based on teh evidence that you are providing? Is that you point? If it is, it hardly seems relative now, to be worrying about Herm, doesn't it?

How did Petitbon, and Handley do with teams that had successes the year before?

PS My stat site is down this Morning Seifert may

have won more then 36 his first 3 years..But you

get the point!! :wink:

[Preston Howley III]

Let's not forget Herms pet project/obsession with Black QB's from small schools: Woodbury, Blackwell etc.

Herm really knows how to prioritize. Earth to Herm: PET PROJECTS ARE FOR COACHES WHO ALREADY HAVE THEIR SHT TOGETHER; NOT GUYS LIKE YOU AFFORDED 4 FRCKING YEARS OF OJT AND YOU STILL CAN'T CALL AN APPROPRIATE TIME-OUT!

[Scott Dierking]

Let's not forget Herms pet project/obsession with Black QB's from small schools: Woodbury, Blackwell etc.

Herm really knows how to prioritize. Earth to Herm: PET PROJECTS ARE FOR COACHES WHO ALREADY HAVE THEIR SHT TOGETHER; NOT GUYS LIKE YOU AFFORDED 4 FRCKING YEARS OF OJT AND YOU STILL CAN'T CALL AN APPROPRIATE TIME-OUT!

Yup, That freaking Brandon Moore experiment-What the hell was that about?

[Preston Howley III]

Yup, That freaking Brandon Moore experiment-What the hell was that about?

What does that have to do with black QB's from small schools, Scott? Typical Hermaphrodite obfuscation.

I can assure you, Doug Marrone and and Terry Bradway had everything to do with Brandon Moore's acquisition and development. What role Herm played in it, besides hand clapping, is best left explained by people like you.

Now, if you want to talk about Rashard Casey, we can do that, Scott.

(Yes, I do realize Penn St. isn't a small black college- I'll save you the digression)

[spjets]

this thread is gettin stupid...

[Scott Dierking]

What does that have to do with black QB's from small schools, Scott? Typical Hermaphrodite obfuscation.

I can assure you, Doug Marrone and and Terry Bradway had everything to do with Brandon Moore's acquisition and development. What role Herm played in it, besides hand clapping, is best left explained by people like you.

Now, if you want to talk about Rashard Casey, we can do that, Scott.

(Yes, I do realize Penn St. isn't a small black college- I'll save you the digression)

Gotcha Things that go wrong-Totally Herm's fault.

Things that go right-Herm had nothing to do with.

And while we are at it, what the Hell is Herm helping kids out in California for?

He is coach of the NEW YORK Jets. How stupid is he? And why even help kids? That does NOTHING for teh Jets

[Preston Howley III]

Gotcha Things that go wrong-Totally Herm's fault.

Things that go right-Herm had nothing to do with.

And while we are at it, what the Hell is Herm helping kids out in California for?

He is coach of the NEW YORK Jets. How stupid is he? And why even help kids? That does NOTHING for teh Jets

Princess Diana "helped" kids out, too. So what? If I was a millionaire, I could pose with AIDS patients for pictures, too.

Rashard Kasey, Scott. Stay on topic.

Brandon Moore was penciled in as a starter when he was brought here; there was a utilitarian purpose to his being here.

Woodbury, Blackwell, Kasey et al were potential 3 stringers- they served no other purpose other than as potential trophies in Herm's political expediency.

[Scott Dierking]

Casey, Blackwell, et al, were brought in to absorb snaps during training camp.

Maybe they were brought in to give the Jets defense a look at a mobile QB in camp, as a way to practice against those schemes. Who are we to say.

BVut to be criticizing the level of QB brought in as teh 4th and 5th is a bit obtuse.

In regard to Moore-You claim that he was labeled a starter when he came here? You may want to re-check that. He was not even an O-lineman when he was brought here Nor was he even drafted.

Brandon Moore is the DEFINITION of a project

[Preston Howley III]

Casey, Blackwell, et al, were brought in to absorb snaps during training camp.

Maybe they were brought in to give the Jets defense a look at a mobile QB in camp, as a way to practice against those schemes. Who are we to say.

BVut to be criticizing the level of QB brought in as teh 4th and 5th is a bit obtuse.

In regard to Moore-You claim that he was labeled a starter when he came here? You may want to re-check that. He was not even an O-lineman when he was brought here Nor was he even drafted.

Brandon Moore is the DEFINITION of a project

Whatever Scott. I didn't realize this was going to turn into a conversation about Brandon Moore, so I didn't do a nexus lexus search on him. I thought he played Guard for the Dolphins but whatever.

[Scott Dierking]

Whatever Scott. I didn't realize this was going to turn into a conversation about Brandon Moore, so I didn't do a nexus lexus search on him. I thought he played Guard for the Dolphins but whatever.

Jetmo-Not to belabor it, but your intial post was about PET PROJECTS.

While I am not sure that the QB's named were any kind of special project that the Jets were counting on to have lasting effects to their final roster, you would have to certainly admit that Brandon Moore is a project that I as a fan am happy that they turned attention to.

Point being, all "projects" will not stick. Sometimes (see Moore), they can have huge upside.

To say that Herm has NO BUSINESS handling projects would not be a fair statement from what we have seen of Moore.

[Preston Howley III]

Two weeks into Herm's debut as Jets HC, he was pontificating about (and I'm paraphrasing)the "importance of getting more black QB's in the NFL".

Sounds noble, right? But as the record has clearly shown, Herm was not qualified to be a HC. Shouldn't he have had other priorities? Like learning how to do his job, first? But he was so determined to get a black QB on the roster, he brought Rashard Kasey into camp. Who's Rashard Kasey?

He was a Penn ST QB who pummelled a white guy to the ground, and kicked him in the head, because he was seen in public holding hands with a black woman.

This is so outrageous on so many levels, I really don't know where to begin. So I'll just let it go.

The cruel irony in all of this, is 3 years later, the Jets get Quincy Carter, a legitimate NFL QB, and Herm and Hacky do such a butcher job on the guy, he's been on suicide watch at the Betty Ford clinic ever since.

[Scott Dierking]

Two weeks into Herm's debut as Jets HC, he was pontificating about (and I'm paraphrasing)the "importance of getting more black QB's in the NFL".

Sounds noble, right? But as the record has clearly shown, Herm was not qualified to be a HC. Shouldn't he have had other priorities? Like learning how to do his job, first? But he was so determined to get a black QB on the roster, he brought Rashard Kasey into camp. Who's Rashard Kasey?

He was a Penn ST QB who pummelled a white guy to the ground, and kicked him in the head, because he was seen in public holding hands with a black woman.

This is so outrageous on so many levels, I really don't know where to begin. So I'll just let it go.

The cruel irony in all of this, is 3 years later, the Jets get Quincy Carter, a legitimate NFL QB, and Herm and Hacky do such a butcher job on the guy, he's been on suicide watch at the Betty Ford clinic ever since.

Jetmo-Your posts contain so many inaccuracies I don't even know where to start.

"As his record clearly shows"-Ummmm-He has a WINNING record. That is clearly? Say what you want about some of teh things he has done, but a winning record is now an indictment of a coach?

I can't recall Herm ever talking about black QBs and teh need for them in teh league-I would like to see a link to that. Either way, he has commited to Pennington, and from all I know of Chad, he is pure caucasian. No harm no foul to teh Jets.

You seem to claim that Herm and co screwed up one Quincy Carter-You may want to check his previous transcripts-He was screwed up way before he came here.

You also might want to check out the Casey situation. He was absolved of any guilt. PSU did not even suspend him.

Aside from those factual errors, you did ok

[Preston Howley III]

Scott, it truly is pathetic listening to you talk out of your #ss with such confidence.

My friends brother is a Hoboken cop, trust me, Kasey did it. His co-defendent fell on a sword for him and the victim agreed to change his story after Kasey arranged to give them his TC pay check. Thats what happened, mkay?

As for "standing behind Pennington from the beginning"-

Herm didn't bring in mobile QB's to give his defense a workout, he wanted to replace Vinny on the cheap and Pennington was not even a consideration.

[Scott Dierking]

Scott, it truly is pathetic listening to you talk out of your #ss with such confidence.

My friends brother is a Hoboken cop, trust me, Kasey did it. His co-defendent fell on a sword for him and the victim agreed to change his story after Kasey arranged to give them his TC pay check. Thats what happened, mkay?

As for "standing behind Pennington from the beginning"-

Herm didn't bring in mobile QB's to give his defense a workout, he wanted to replace Vinny on the cheap and Pennington was not even a consideration.

OH OK, It was YOU who did not even know who Brandon Moore was, or how the Jets developed him, yet it is ME that is talking out of my #ss?

I suppose your brother is also an inside source for these QB's to be developed to take over for Vinny?

[Scott Dierking]

Scott, it truly is pathetic listening to you talk out of your #ss with such confidence.

My friends brother is a Hoboken cop, trust me, Kasey did it. His co-defendent fell on a sword for him and the victim agreed to change his story after Kasey arranged to give them his TC pay check. Thats what happened, mkay?

As for "standing behind Pennington from the beginning"-

Herm didn't bring in mobile QB's to give his defense a workout, he wanted to replace Vinny on the cheap and Pennington was not even a consideration.

Oh and Moses-Casey was entering his Final year at PSU, NOT Training Camp, when the incident occured.

How could he offer something he did not have, or had no way of knowing he would have.

Sounds fishy

[Preston Howley III]

Tsk, tsk. What's the matter, Scotty? Got tired of saying "he got us to the playoffs 3 out 4 seasons" and "he's a master motivator" 17 pages in a row? I realize how important it is to you that Herms image isn't allowed to be tarnished, but suggesting that Rashad Kasey didn't do anything bad, because a grand jury didn't feel they had enough to indict him-

Funny stuff can happen to evidence and eyewitness accounts between the time of arrest and the time the case is presented to a Grand Jury. Oh well.

I thought I'd seen it all as far as Hermaphrodites throwing themselves on a sword for their beloved Herm, but Scotty, your setting a new low.

Why is it so important that you convince yourself that Rashad Kasey did not participate in a brutal racial beating ? Why are you going to such lengths? Is it really that necassary that no discrepancy can ever, ever be allowed to tarnish Herm's image?

I mean, really, you should have just left the Rashad Kasey stuff alone, and ran with the Brandon Moore angle. It's much more your speed.

I'm so sure everybody reading this thread is convinced that my integrity is shot because I said "Brandon Moore was penciled in as a starter" when in fact (cue the fugue music)-

HE WASN'T. Good job, ol' chum! Bravo!

Really, Scott, enough with the obfuscation and attempts to derail the thread.

Make a case for Herm. Tell me that you believe he was qualified to be a HC when he was handed the job. Tell my you think he knew what he was doing. But make sure you do it in a way so it doesn't conflict with all the other rationalizations you've posted in the past in defense of Herm, Immortal beloved.

I need a good laugh, and you've yet to provide me with one.

I'll let you get the last word (so don't waste it on personal attacks on me, my friends brother et al. Use it to convince us "30 %" how we are wrong on Herm.)

[Scott Dierking]

Moses-I have said NOTHING about Herm in this thread, beside answering what you have charged about him bringing black 3rd and 4th QB's-Which I can't really see how it really ius damning evidence at all.

As far as Casey, all I asked is how could he make private settlement of "TC" money, as you claim, when he was still entering his final; year of eligibility.

You really think someone is going to accept "TC" money, on a college QB?

If teh guy had a case-Take it to civil court. I

I know a little about the caae because I am a PSU alumn and was able to follwo it that way. Of course that is not as good as a "brother of a friend" whop claims their was monies exchanged from "TC", when this player was 18 months from ANY "TC"

[Preston Howley III]

Jeepers H. Crackers, Scott.

You just can't let this go, can ya? First of all, my friends brother (Hoboken cop) didn't say he was "spreading TC money around" I just made that up. It's called hyperbole, Scott. We're BSing on a MB.

That said, the facts of the case, a man got the crap beat out of him, two men are arrested, but only one got indicted. I don't know what happened to that defendent, I don't follow every assualt and battery case in NJ, Scott, and I really don't care. I only took an interest in it as it concerned Kasey when he came into Jets TC.

2nd of all, don't try to act like you know more than the cops because you're a Penn state alum.

Ya know what Scott, do me a favor, don't talk to me.

Better still, go buy a premium subscription at JI.

[Maxman]

Hey let's keep this thread on topic.

Herm is great.

Discuss.

[Jetlag]

I'm just wondering, has anyone actually budged on their feelings on Herm just a little bit from this thread? Either one way or the other.

[PatsFanTX]

I'm just wondering, has anyone actually budged on their feelings on Herm just a little bit from this thread? Either one way or the other.

I have.

Based on compelling evidence presented by some posters, I think Hermy sucks even more than I originally thought.

[Jetlag]

I have.

Based on compelling evidence presented by some posters, I think Hermy sucks even more than I originally thought.

I'm in such a great mood right now that even your negativity couldn't bring me down.

Tx, if the Jets made the Super Bowl this year, would you root for them? Would it have to depend on the opponent or would you would against them no matter what?

I would like any Pats fan to answer that question actually.

[stormshadow19]

I'm just wondering, has anyone actually budged on their feelings on Herm just a little bit from this thread? Either one way or the other.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. As a matter of fact, I'm almost positive it's reinforced people's feelings about the Jets Head Coach, one way or the other.

[PatsFanTX]

Tx, if the Jets made the Super Bowl this year, would you root for them? Would it have to depend on the opponent or would you would against them no matter what?

Absolutely lag, for 2 reasons.

One, I would always root for an AFCE team in the Super Bowl.

Two, there are some great Jet fans (not all mind you :wink: ) who deserve to see the Jets win a Super Bowl.