Only In New York

[Ghost]

Joe Namath played worse his rookie season.

[#27TheDominator]

It's not about the record, it's about how we got there.

This is not a good 3-3.

I don't think it's as bad as you think. Which games didn't come down to the last possession? They have been in every game except the Saints. Getting hammered by the Saints in NO is pretty common. Ask the Giants. I'm also not that worried about losing Jenkins. Sure it sucks, but "the D that was built around him" was there for two years before he got here. They'll survive and as bad as Rex may be as a head man, it seems like he is keeping the D together.

We do not need a Dolphins fan telling Jets fans what to think. Don't troll here this week. Being perfectly honest when I say this is not the week to do it.

Ah, why not? We deserve it. We did plenty of chirping and half the board not only believed the team was going to the super bowl, but was crowing on and on about it. The Jets aren't as good as they thought they were and they aren't as bad as everybody is acting now.

I do think we should be allowed to curse at trolls though. You've severely limited my vocabulary.

[serphnx]

Ah, why not? We deserve it. We did plenty of chirping and half the board not only believed the team was going to the super bowl, but was crowing on and on about it. The Jets aren't as good as they thought they were and they aren't as bad as everybody is acting now.

I do think we should be allowed to curse at trolls though. You've severely limited my vocabulary.

I'm okay with the trolls as long as they are forced to chip in for a new server. The Miami and Pats trolls flocking to this board after every Jets loss keeps overloading the servers.

I also like how quiet the Fins fans were and how most of them avoided this board so much until after their 4 point win with 6 seconds to go in the game, after which they all celebrated like they won the Super Bowl by 30 points. It's just funny to see just how bad their mental state is right now from all the constant beatings from the Jets that they act like that.

I mean it's like how most Jets fans act with one of the rare wins over the Pats, since the Pats in turn have beat up the Jets for so long. It's like most of the NYJ fanbase would have been happy to end the season back after the Pats game, and meanwhile the Miami fanbase, all 23 of them, probably think the football season is over and the Fins got some sort of trophy.

[Irish Jet]

I don't think it's as bad as you think. Which games didn't come down to the last possession? They have been in every game except the Saints. Getting hammered by the Saints in NO is pretty common. Ask the Giants. I'm also not that worried about losing Jenkins. Sure it sucks, but "the D that was built around him" was there for two years before he got here. They'll survive and as bad as Rex may be as a head man, it seems like he is keeping the D together.

This.

The overreaction to Sanchez's poor play is simply laughable. It really is. Was he awful? Yes but I've seen rookies play just as badly and turn out alright. He's still shown a lot that IMO Jets fans should be very excited about. Two games he's played like a rookie QB and although he made mistakes in the other he still looked like something special.

Starting 3-0 may have been the worst thing to happen Jets fans. The guys who have now turned on the team altogether were barking about being 7-1 at the bye, being contenders for it all and just overall talking ****e.

We're not a great team but I don't think we're a paticularly bad team. We beat two good teams while shutting down their elite offense's and we played New Orleans tougher than anyone in the superdome. The Dolphins games and Bills games came down to the last second - It's not like we were blown out.

Anyways, now that 124 has lost hope we're a lock for at least the wildcard.

[Jbro22]

Joe Namath played worse his rookie season.

Yes he did, but Namath was such a raw talent that he'd go stumble in hammered drunk at 7am Sunday morning before his games.

EDIT: And the Jets were a passing offense with Namath that football had never seen before. His INT's were like punts.

[Jbro22]

It's not about the record, it's about how we got there.

This is not a good 3-3.

That's a very good point. There isn't too much to feel good about right now. But we are 3-3 with plenty of time to right the ship. Will we? Who knows, we got a rookie QB and HC. For me it was never about 2009 anyways, and more about the seasons after.

[Irish Jet]

That's a very good point. There isn't too much to feel good about right now. But we are 3-3 with plenty of time to right the ship. Will we? Who knows, we got a rookie QB and HC. For me it was never about 2009 anyways, and more about the seasons after.

A 3 game losing streak is never good but like you said this season the most important thing of all was Mark Sanchez and how he performed. So far I'm still relatively pleased even after Sundays disaster. He needs to have a stronger end to the season though.

As for this season? Meh, we obviously have to beat the Raiders but the Miami game IMO is what it's all about. 5-3 going into the bye (Which can't come soon enough for us) and we can certainly still compete.

[ZachEY]

It doesn't matter. It doesn't say whether we're a poor or good 3-3, all it says is we're 3-3.

Yes in the box score, but next week's game, and the rest of the season is based more upon the gameplay then the box score.

Yes, we're 3 and 3, but how confident do you feel going into Oakland?

There are many ways to get to the same record, especially early in the season, and they are not all equal.

[ZachEY]

I don't think it's as bad as you think. Which games didn't come down to the last possession? They have been in every game except the Saints. Getting hammered by the Saints in NO is pretty common. Ask the Giants. I'm also not that worried about losing Jenkins. Sure it sucks, but "the D that was built around him" was there for two years before he got here. They'll survive and as bad as Rex may be as a head man, it seems like he is keeping the D together.

I guess I'm not as optimistic about Buffalo 'coming down to the last possession' as you.

By the way, if we won that game in OT, and Jenkins stayed healthy, we'd still have significant problems.

[#27TheDominator]

I guess I'm not as optimistic about Buffalo 'coming down to the last possession' as you.

By the way, if we won that game in OT, and Jenkins stayed healthy, we'd still have significant problems.

We do have "significant problems". We are starting a rookie QB that is inexperienced and young even for a rookie and we have a rookie head coach. We've had them all along, even when the board was trying to pick out our super bowl opponent.

These are (hopefully) growing pains. I'm just surprised how many people want to gut everything because of this game, but then I should remember that nobody ever went broke underestimating the American public.

[neckdemon]

You just lost to one of the NFL's worst teams. Your defense is no longer top 5, it's not even top 10 any more. Do you really believe that?

we didn't lose because of defense. and our defense is still 6th in points allowed. yardage rankings we are 11th.....and thats a stupid way to rank a defense anyway. the important thing is how many points they're surrendering. anyway...we lost this game because sanchez sucked and threw interception after interception. our defense is still solid. if you're gonna make a comment try to make it an informed one.

[ZachEY]

We do have "significant problems". We are starting a rookie QB that is inexperienced and young even for a rookie and we have a rookie head coach. We've had them all along, even when the board was trying to pick out our super bowl opponent.

These are (hopefully) growing pains. I'm just surprised how many people want to gut everything because of this game, but then I should remember that nobody ever went broke underestimating the American public.

I don't suggest gutting anything.

I just have significant, and not unmeritted concerns about Sanchez. I hope this is just 'playing like a rookie', but I'm not so sure, because it's beyond bad. He really couldn't have played much worse. Couldn't physically make some of the throws, and more concerning, when he didn't (doesn't?) have someone wide open, makes awful decisions. He in general also has a tendency to throw high, which is not so different from the ducks Chad was throwing with regard to being a danger to the receivers.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't suggest gutting anything.

I just have significant, and not unmeritted concerns about Sanchez. I hope this is just 'playing like a rookie', but I'm not so sure, because it's beyond bad. He really couldn't have played much worse. Couldn't physically make some of the throws, and more concerning, when he didn't (doesn't?) have someone wide open, makes awful decisions. He in general also has a tendency to throw high, which is not so different from the ducks Chad was throwing with regard to being a danger to the receivers.

There are so many Chicken Littles on the board that it's hard not to generalize. I didn't mean to lump you in with all of them. Just pointing out that 3-3 is 3-3. It could be a better 3-3, but it could be much worse. We always had significant concerns about Sanchez. Rational people had them all along, but the crazed masses want to act like this is something new and crucify Schottenheimer/Rex over it.

This was one major reason why many of us didn't want to start Sanchez. (I was a waffler and leaned towards starting him, but this was my main point against it). If Clemens sucks you bench him for Sanchez fine, but you can't bench Sanchez for Clemens. That could ruin him and he'd be damaged goods.

[ZachEY]

There are so many Chicken Littles on the board that it's hard not to generalize. I didn't mean to lump you in with all of them. Just pointing out that 3-3 is 3-3. It could be a better 3-3, but it could be much worse. We always had significant concerns about Sanchez. Rational people had them all along, but the crazed masses want to act like this is something new and crucify Schottenheimer/Rex over it.

This was one major reason why many of us didn't want to start Sanchez. (I was a waffler and leaned towards starting him, but this was my main point against it). If Clemens sucks you bench him for Sanchez fine, but you can't bench Sanchez for Clemens. That could ruin him and he'd be damaged goods.

I don't think you learn as much anymore sitting on the bench. IMO, QBs used to sit because they didn't play pro-style offenses in college, so everything was different. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my theory.

I think most of us thought he would struggle and even 'cost us a game or two', but I think the idea of 'costing us a game or two' was more along the lines of a tight game, where he made a critical rookie mistake that cost us a lead, or a chance to take the lead. I don't think anyone expected a 5 INT performance against arguably the worst secondary in football.

[dolphann4life]

The Playoffs are possible for the Jets, but i would say unlikey. I had you guys pegged around 5 to 6 wins mark before the season. My expectations for you guys obviously changed after the fast start and the way Sanchez and the Defense were playing. Now, having lost back to back games to division oppenents and seing Sanchez starting to struggle and finnaly look like a rookie, add in the lost of the one player on your Defense you know you could not afford to lose...i'd say around 8 wins is likely and you guys miss the playoffs. 8-8 with a rookie HC and Rookie QB is not a bad year. You gotta exercise your West Coast demons this week and you do have some very winnable games comming up on the sched. in Jacksonville, Tampa, Carolina. I'm saying you guys finish 8-8

[Sharrow]

You just lost to one of the NFL's worst teams. Your defense is no longer top 5, it's not even top 10 any more. Do you really believe that?

The defense held them to 16 points, despite 6 turnovers. Now that we lost Jenkins, you might be right, we'll find out, but they were very good in Sunday's game.

[Jet Moses]

Only in New York can a Rookie QB go 3-0 and dig his own grave. Think about it. If this kid took us to 3-3 while losing winning losing winning losing winning, he'd still be the man. And you can't deny that.

Things to discuss in this thread, the general stupidity of the average Jets fan and the media that pumps a team/player up only to turn on them the minute it generates readers/listener/viewers.

I hope those of you that jumped yesterday, didn't survive.

You don't really mean that, do you?

[Aqua4ever04]

The defense held them to 16 points, despite 6 turnovers. Now that we lost Jenkins, you might be right, we'll find out, but they were very good in Sunday's game.

There's no denying that. But it was the Bills and Ryan Fitzpatrick. There isn't a worse starting quarterback/offensive line combination in the league.

[Larz]

just checking in

how did that sanchez kid look against notre dame last week ?

if clemens doesn't pan out, we should draft that kid

[Larz]

EDIT: And the Jets were a passing offense with Namath that football had never seen before. His INT's were like punts.

he threw a ton of pick 6's. so many in fact, j. edgar hoover and nixon opened a file on him to see if he was fixing games

[serphnx]

This.

The overreaction to Sanchez's poor play is simply laughable. It really is. Was he awful? Yes but I've seen rookies play just as badly and turn out alright. He's still shown a lot that IMO Jets fans should be very excited about. Two games he's played like a rookie QB and although he made mistakes in the other he still looked like something special.

Starting 3-0 may have been the worst thing to happen Jets fans. The guys who have now turned on the team altogether were barking about being 7-1 at the bye, being contenders for it all and just overall talking ****e.

We're not a great team but I don't think we're a paticularly bad team. We beat two good teams while shutting down their elite offense's and we played New Orleans tougher than anyone in the superdome. The Dolphins games and Bills games came down to the last second - It's not like we were blown out.

Anyways, now that 124 has lost hope we're a lock for at least the wildcard.

The funny part is those people that don't want to admit he's been awful. I've seen Jets fans claim he's having a great rookie season and constantly comparing him to Peyton Manning's rookie season. Maybe that is why I stopped reading that other board, those people are just beyond hope.

I'm fairly certain there have been QBs with terrible 3 game stretches in the past in their rookie seasons that recovered and did well, but to be honest I can't think of any right now during the time I've been watching football that have done that bad. The last rookie QB I can remember with such a putrid stretch was Alex Smith, and he certainly did not turn out well. Smith had something like 1 TD 9 INT too. Sanchez might actually have him beat doing something similar in 3 games only.

If you can find the rookie QBs that have thrown 5 INT games in their rookie season, and 9 turnovers with only one score in a 3 game stretch, that have gone on to be really good in their second year, that'd be a great post. I think though if there are any it took them at least 3 years to really develop. Next year might be kinda rough too. The Jets are in a really rough spot because you don't want to rebuild in the NFL anymore, but you need a franchise QB. Lately QBs have been learning very quickly, like Ben, Cutler, Ryan and Flacco. Others sat for a few years then did okay or well, like Brady and Rivers.

Eli did take a few years to develop though, he was pretty bad. Russell never developed at all, and you definitely don't want THAT either. I'm thinking Sanchez is going to need Eli Manning type development time, and won't be the quick study people thought he'd be. It doesn't help that the dumb OC designs an offense that even 20 year veterans struggle in, but at the very least he shouldn't be asked to throw more than 20 games on average. Ryan and Flacco I believe actually threw about 30, I'm fairly certain for Flacco at least it was right around 30. Well, Sanchez won't be able to do that. I think Ben averaged about 20 or so, I'd have to check, but it's gotta be more like Ben.

And that means this stupid high priced O-line has got to do better. It also means no more TJ. For the love of god, please no more TJ. I don't care that he had 2 big runs, I still don't think he really truly helps. But, fine, but at LEAST let Washington and Greene run a lot too! I'm saying run, run and run some more now, we know Sanchez can't throw anyway, why not at least TRY all 3 backs a whole lot and see who does well? Rotate them around! Be like the Ravens last year!

They ran like crazy and they refused to use one guy, even though all 3 are more talented than TJ is. They took a guy in McGahee, that had a Pro Bowl season the year before and literally carried them, and barely used him last year. Then they randomly used their bruiser back and future franchise back randomly throughout the year. Now of course the feature guy is the feature guy, but they didn't use him like that last year and brought him up.

As long as he's not injured, can we at least see what Greene can do? If he sucks, at least you know that a new RB has to be drafted. TJ is going to be cut anyway at the end of the year, and face it, this team isn't going to win it all this year anyway, so why bullheadedly stick to making the 32 year old RB look good? Trade deadline passed even.

[Irish Jet]

I'm fairly certain there have been QBs with terrible 3 game stretches in the past in their rookie seasons that recovered and did well, but to be honest I can't think of any right now during the time I've been watching football that have done that bad. The last rookie QB I can remember with such a putrid stretch was Alex Smith, and he certainly did not turn out well. Smith had something like 1 TD 9 INT too. Sanchez might actually have him beat doing something similar in 3 games only.

If you can find the rookie QBs that have thrown 5 INT games in their rookie season, and 9 turnovers with only one score in a 3 game stretch, that have gone on to be really good in their second year, that'd be a great post. I think though if there are any it took them at least 3 years to really develop. Next year might be kinda rough too. The Jets are in a really rough spot because you don't want to rebuild in the NFL anymore, but you need a franchise QB. Lately QBs have been learning very quickly, like Ben, Cutler, Ryan and Flacco. Others sat for a few years then did okay or well, like Brady and Rivers.

Joe Flacco started last season with one TD to 7 picks and he was getting a lot more protection from the OC than Sanchez was.

[#27TheDominator]

Please, no more TJ? The guy just went 22 for 210 AND IS THE ONLY JETS RB TO SCORE A TD THIS SEASON. I keep hearing that Leon is the homerun hitter, but I don't think he's even gotten a double. Jones is having monster runs and still getting no love. I don't like him much either, but if Leon was producing like him, this board would be ready to sign him for $9M per. Let's just try to rely less on our preconceived notions and pay some attention to statistics and our eyes. I think he averaged well over 4 ypc even if you took away the two long runs.

[Maxman]

Joe Flacco started last season with one TD to 7 picks and he was getting a lot more protection from the OC than Sanchez was.

I think he has had plenty of protection. Now that the running game seems to be picking up things should get even better for him protection wise as well.

[JohnnyHector]

I think he has had plenty of protection. Now that the running game seems to be picking up things should get even better for him protection wise as well.

Agreed. Some of the picks he's thrown, he's had all the time in the world and tried to force the ball into double coverage instead of throwing it away or pulling it down and trying to run for a few yards.

His poor decision-making is far, far more to blame than the OL at this point.

[#27TheDominator]

Agreed. Some of the picks he's thrown, he's had all the time in the world and tried to force the ball into double coverage instead of throwing it away or pulling it down and trying to run for a few yards.

His poor decision-making is far, far more to blame than the OL at this point.

Sounds like Favre.

[Irish Jet]

I think he has had plenty of protection. Now that the running game seems to be picking up things should get even better for him protection wise as well.

I mean protection as in playcalling. Schotty is hurting Sanchez IMO while Cam Cameron worked wonders with Flacco.

The O-line's been fine.

[shawn306]

I think the problem is with Jets fans is that every game is a "State of the Team" address.

We all got spoiled watching this team get off to a 3-0 start. Beating a Texans team that many thought would challenge Indy and Tennessee for the top spot in the AFC South. Then they go out and beat a New England team that they have not beaten at home since 2000 and take a care of a Titans team that alot of people thought would be really good again this year.

Then all of a sudden it became "Wow we could really do something this year" forget 9-7, 8-8 we can go 12-4 and host a playoff game.

Then Sanchez showed his why he was a rookie losing to a Saints team that I think right now might be the best team in then NFL right now.

Ok we can deal with that.

Then they lose to a Miami team that we all thought sucked and a Buffalo team that does suck and all of sudden the fans are back to S.O.J..

We suck, Sanchez is terrible, Ryan sucks as a coach.

Are you kidding me ?

Even the great Parcells had his SOJ moments. Losing to a 1-12 Colts team in 1997 that even more so than the Lions game cost the Jets a trip to the post season. Even in 98 when the lost to Indy at Indy and the Rams.

Let the total picture come into focus before you judge how good or bad this team is.

Alot of people talk about the Jets being a "Now" team. So does that mean if they don't make the playoffs this year that the window is closed ? Heck no. There is enough young talent on this team right now that even if they don't make the playoffs this year, they will most likely be even better next year with a QB with a full year under his belt.

When the season started I thought there was a good chance the Jets could start 0-5 with that schedule and a rookie QB. They are 3-3. Still just a game behind New England. Alot can happen in the next 11 weeks. Better than I expected but still could have been better but that is the NFL. I don't think alot of people thought the Raiders would beat Philly last week or the Chiefs would beat the Redskins but they did. You just never know.

Enjoy the ride folks. It may not take us to the ultimate destination but it before this year is over I think I will be more happy with this team than I have been in about 5 years.

[Irish Jet]

I think the problem is with Jets fans is that every game is a "State of the Team" address.

We all got spoiled watching this team get off to a 3-0 start. Beating a Texans team that many thought would challenge Indy and Tennessee for the top spot in the AFC South. Then they go out and beat a New England team that they have not beaten at home since 2000 and take a care of a Titans team that alot of people thought would be really good again this year.

Then all of a sudden it became "Wow we could really do something this year" forget 9-7, 8-8 we can go 12-4 and host a playoff game.

Then Sanchez showed his why he was a rookie losing to a Saints team that I think right now might be the best team in then NFL right now.

Ok we can deal with that.

Then they lose to a Miami team that we all thought sucked and a Buffalo team that does suck and all of sudden the fans are back to S.O.J..

We suck, Sanchez is terrible, Ryan sucks as a coach.

Are you kidding me ?

Even the great Parcells had his SOJ moments. Losing to a 1-12 Colts team in 1997 that even more so than the Lions game cost the Jets a trip to the post season. Even in 98 when the lost to Indy at Indy and the Rams.

Let the total picture come into focus before you judge how good or bad this team is.

Alot of people talk about the Jets being a "Now" team. So does that mean if they don't make the playoffs this year that the window is closed ? Heck no. There is enough young talent on this team right now that even if they don't make the playoffs this year, they will most likely be even better next year with a QB with a full year under his belt.

When the season started I thought there was a good chance the Jets could start 0-5 with that schedule and a rookie QB. They are 3-3. Still just a game behind New England. Alot can happen in the next 11 weeks. Better than I expected but still could have been better but that is the NFL. I don't think alot of people thought the Raiders would beat Philly last week or the Chiefs would beat the Redskins but they did. You just never know.

Enjoy the ride folks. It may not take us to the ultimate destination but it before this year is over I think I will be more happy with this team than I have been in about 5 years.

POTW

[serphnx]

Joe Flacco started last season with one TD to 7 picks and he was getting a lot more protection from the OC than Sanchez was.

Well what I mean is, Flacco never threw a 5 INT game, I don't think he ever even threw a 3 INT game. I know his first 5/6 games were as you're saying, but then he really came on and threw for good yardage and didn't make those mistakes. Really all you want from Sanchez is he doesn't turn the ball over.

[Boozer76]

I have 2 observations to make on this:

1-It seems alot of fans expected Sanchez to have a really solid season as a rookie. It seems that alot of fans are genuinely shocked that he has played so poorly in 2 of 6 games. Let's think about that for a second. You are genuinely shocked that a rookie QB that came out of college early, having only played in 16 college games, in nice weather, had a couple awful games in his first 6 as an NFL starter? Really? I think some people need to really re-evaluate their expectations of a rookie QB in the NFL. Matt Ryan is the exception, not the norm. Peyton Manning set the friggin INT record his rookie season. Sanchez is going to look bad at times. He's going to look terrible at times. He's even going to look like he has no business in an NFL uniform at times. He is absolutely going to cost us games at times as he already has. But he's also going to flash at times where we see what he can become, and he has already. Fans need to be patient. If you wanted to win this year, you should have been on the Clemens bus in preseason because even though he isn't very good, he could manage the game better than Sanchez.

2-I don't know why people think the loss of Jenkins means the end of our season now. Ryan has stated he will use formations that play to the player's strengths. Yes, Jenkins is ferocious, but if losing him means our D just tanks it then really how is Ryan any better than Mangini? I have faith Ryan will know what to do to keep this D playing well.

[flgreen]

I'm only 19 years old, but I know some history of this league. The Jets once had a QB named Joe Namath, who threw 5 and 6 INTs in his rookie season. I'm pretty sure I'm correct.

Oh yeah, Joe Namath also won us a Super Bowl.

I

[Ghost]

One of our priorities in the off-season should definitely be to give Mike Martz a call. I don't care what anyone says. That guy is one helluva offensive coordinator.

[Ghost]

I have 2 observations to make on this:

1-It seems alot of fans expected Sanchez to have a really solid season as a rookie. It seems that alot of fans are genuinely shocked that he has played so poorly in 2 of 6 games. Let's think about that for a second. You are genuinely shocked that a rookie QB that came out of college early, having only played in 16 college games, in nice weather, had a couple awful games in his first 6 as an NFL starter? Really? I think some people need to really re-evaluate their expectations of a rookie QB in the NFL. Matt Ryan is the exception, not the norm. Peyton Manning set the friggin INT record his rookie season. Sanchez is going to look bad at times. He's going to look terrible at times. He's even going to look like he has no business in an NFL uniform at times. He is absolutely going to cost us games at times as he already has. But he's also going to flash at times where we see what he can become, and he has already. Fans need to be patient. If you wanted to win this year, you should have been on the Clemens bus in preseason because even though he isn't very good, he could manage the game better than Sanchez.

2-I don't know why people think the loss of Jenkins means the end of our season now. Ryan has stated he will use formations that play to the player's strengths. Yes, Jenkins is ferocious, but if losing him means our D just tanks it then really how is Ryan any better than Mangini? I have faith Ryan will know what to do to keep this D playing well.

I honestly couldn't agree more.

P.S. Cute kid.

[Jbro22]

he threw a ton of pick 6's. so many in fact, j. edgar hoover and nixon opened a file on him to see if he was fixing games

Yeah, thats not the only reason. He was also hanging out at the same spots that notorious bookies, and wise guys were at.