Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I will not be voting I28, even if it's to get a majority. Though I don't think my vote is needed anyway. Seeing as we're, I believe, 6 votes away from lynching anyone, seems to me your vote will be needed. Unless of course everything gets done in the 11th hour on Day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 1) Cop investigates I28 tonight, finds out he's scum. Result - hooray, dead scum tomorrow. 2) Cop investigates I28 tonight, finds out he's a townie, and the result is accurate. Result - hooray, confirmation that I28 is a townie, and we can trust his reads. 3) Cop investigates I28 tonight, turns out he's a godfather. Result - crap, we're screwed. Odds are much higher for 1 and 2 than 3 (a 1 in 21 chance I28 is the Godfather, if one is in this game), so it seems like the smart play, to me. Why do you disagree? I don't think he should be investigated right now. I don't see what good it does us, tbh, assuming you think JC should tell us his result tomorrow. Even if he's protected in the kitchen, whose to say he isn't protected in the next room and dies tomorrow night? He might even vet himself if he shoots someone tonight and tells us who it is during the night, and we see them die sometime later, or if he tells us he didn't shoot anyone, and then dies himself. If he doesn't shoot anyone and doesn't die, then I think it might be a good idea, but right now it doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 UNVOTE JC Really, really bad play if you are the cop. I agree with everyone who is saying that if JC is lying, the real cop should not come out. I also don't agree with anyone who is saying we should lynch JC at this point. Remember transformers mafia you guys? Without the cop or the doc, there's no way the town would've won, and the town almost killed one of the claimed docs which ended up winning the game for the town. Anyway, my point is to leave any claims alone for now. We can get some information tomorrow if he is the cop (if he's protected tonight), and if not then that gives the real cop some cover to investigate without hinder. I don't like all the people that are role fishing and trying to get the real cop (if jc is fake cop) now that we have a claim. Makes me nervous. Noted...I'm the real cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A Serial Killer (SK) would be working on his own, killing at night, with his own separate win condition - he doesn't win with town or scum, he wins when he's one of the last two players standing in the game. Sounds like fun. That's what I want to be next time around. F*** having teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I just don't feel comfortable for voting I28 just because of his role. That's not fair. I also think it could be potentially useful if he picks right. It's basically the same as a vig. Vig doesn't always pick right, but I normally don't hear anyone naysaying them all the time. I think you guys are focusing too much on the details of the role. I don't like it. I will not be voting I28, even if it's to get a majority. Though I don't think my vote is needed anyway. I think it's a personality thing. Generally people play somewhat conservative here and a vig is the antithesis of conservative play. I can only recall one or two times that someone was vig and just shot. Even being on I28's suspect list and "potentials" I think the only way it crushes the town is if he manages to kill a power role. And honestly it's so early on in this game i have no idea what will happen still, Lily has constantly harped that it's "very different" than our standard games. If it was more vanilla I'd say lynch him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I just don't feel comfortable for voting I28 just because of his role. That's not fair. I also think it could be potentially useful if he picks right. It's basically the same as a vig. Vig doesn't always pick right, but I normally don't hear anyone naysaying them all the time. I think you guys are focusing too much on the details of the role. I don't like it. I will not be voting I28, even if it's to get a majority. Though I don't think my vote is needed anyway. I always tend to think Vig's are more dangerous to the town than the scum. Even if I like I28's potential targets, odds are that we lynch a different innocent player today, and he kills another innocent player... eventually. Or he dies anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song of Ice and Fire Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I always tend to think Vig's are more dangerous to the town than the scum. Even if I like I28's potential targets, odds are that we lynch a different innocent player today, and he kills another innocent player... eventually. Or he dies anyway. I don't think so. The first and only time I've ever been vig, The first night I killed scum, the second night I tagetted scum (he couldn't die), the third night I targetted the sk (he also couldn't be nk'd) and the 4th night I killed scum, and then I got daykilled *mutters* anyway I think vig is a highly good role and not always bad. Yes they may hit an innocent, but they may hit scum *shrugs* I just don't like the idea of killing off someone who is town because their role may or may not end up being used wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 And honestly it's so early on in this game i have no idea what will happen still, Lily has constantly harped that it's "very different" than our standard games. If it was more vanilla I'd say lynch him. Great, I picked an awesome game to play in as a rookie. We went from Crusher's "Vanilla teh Mafia" idea to "let's throw the rookies into the fire in an impossibly complex game". Gotta love JN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 @Doggin: Why not just lynch I28 to find out his alignment? Because I actually believe his reveal, he's a good player to have around when he's town, and we have a golden opportunity to have the cop confirm him (by, if it's anyone other than Jetscode, saying nothing if he gets an innocent verdict - or, if it's Jetscode, by speaking up). So why would lynching him be a better choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightCash Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't think so. The first and only time I've ever been vig, The first night I killed scum, the second night I tagetted scum (he couldn't die), the third night I targetted the sk (he also couldn't be nk'd) and the 4th night I killed scum, and then I got daykilled *mutters* anyway I think vig is a highly good role and not always bad. Yes they may hit an innocent, but they may hit scum *shrugs* I just don't like the idea of killing off someone who is town because their role may or may not end up being used wrong. I don't think you should use your example as a standard for a vig role. It would be impossible for any player to live up to your incredible nose for scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Personally, I'm undecided. I'm just unsure how checking someone who almost got lynched squares with "lynch from the top, find from the bottom." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ok, FINALLY all caught up and here are my thoughts: Jetscode - Honestly, I didn't exactly understand what caused him to catch as much heat as he did, but given a cop reveal, there's obviously no reason to pursue that further. Some of the reactions to his reveal were interesting, and I don't see any reason in the world somebody would think a counterclaim or lynch of JC was even slightly a good idea. CTM - I think Wwwwwwombat's case is non-existent, but I'm not particularly thrilled with his reaction to JC's reveal. I've read his explanation over a bunch of times, and still don't understand how even without a roleblocker his stance makes any sense. Definitely agreeing more with JVOR's points there. I28 - At first I didn't find his act to be too overly scummy (at least no more so than usual). After all, he acts like a batsh*t crazy ape no matter what, whether he's town and I of course still saw it as his teammate last game. That said, his reveal absolutely reeks to me. I'm not sure what about that role is even slightly pro-town. Consider that it's generally considered best practice for a vig to holster as much as possible, because you're that much more likely to kill town than scum, and now we're meant to believe he's forced to submit a kill on night one or possibly die himself? He either got saddled with the worst "pro-town" role in history or he's completely full of it. Honestly, at this point I feel more inclined to think this is one of those instances where a scum or third party tries to take facts from their real role and try to play it into a town friendly role as a means to try to use it as evidence later when it turns out they can do what they said they can do. I know I pulled that move as Sylar in the TV Land game and have seen plenty of others do it as well. That, and I see very little downside in his lynch. Even if he's telling the truth, we end up with pretty much an even trade, by saving another likely-town death by his hand, which could end up having a much more important role. Unvote Vote I28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Can anyone explain the term "wifom"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Then again I don't have as clean a read from him as you seem to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Can anyone explain the term "wifom"? Wine In Front Of Me Ever seen Princess Bride? It's from that. This should help explain further: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wine_In_Front_Of_Me Basically it's just nonsensical circular logic that doesn't prove anything one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Not saying the whole scum team is sitting back inactive (though a couple inevitably are), just saying they're probably letting the town confuse itself and prod it along here and there. Just dropped a post where I suggest lynching I28 might be for the best. 4) I28 is targeting all town, scum roleblocks cop (because the cop would be foolish to publicly agree to who he's going to investigate, and the scum is happy to have I28 kill a townie for them), we have a dead townie and no new information anyway. Of course we have new information: 1) what we can deduce from the dead player and 2) that the mafia has a roleblocker (which is very important to know for certain). And that's a worst case scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Can anyone explain the term "wifom"? LOL, I stil don't even know that one bro. Something like if you're thinking what I'm thinking than I know you must not be thinking it unless I was thinking you're thinking about what I'm thinking about. It's ghey is all I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Lily - if we have a townie role blocker, and (assuming I28 is telling the truth about his role) I28 takes his shot but is blocked by the role blocker, what happens? A) Monkey survives (because he took his shot) and the kill fails? Monkey goes to his 50-50 chance of dying (because the shot was blocked)? C) Monkey has to do it again the next day? or D) Something else? If it's A or C and we have a townie roleblocker, they ought to target the Monkey (since even if it's C, it'll give him another day or 2 of information gathering before he has to shoot) (edited to fix a smiley problem) A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Can anyone explain the term "wifom"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6wqKb8EUxI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Of course we have new information: 1) what we can deduce from the dead player and 2) that the mafia has a roleblocker (which is very important to know for certain). And that's a worst case scenario What do you think about lynching I28 now? We get that role blocker info, anyway (he blocks the cop), and we avoid more role reveals today. We also avoid the potential of lynching a different townie today, combined with the results of I28's actions tonight (which could result in the death of another townie or himself). I think we have enough from D1 as it stands with JC's train & reveal. More trains at this point will be giving the scum more info, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 As I see it, there are three possibilities: 1) Cop investigates I28 tonight, finds out he's scum. Result - hooray, dead scum tomorrow. 2) Cop investigates I28 tonight, finds out he's a townie, and the result is accurate. Result - hooray, confirmation that I28 is a townie, and we can trust his reads. 3) Cop investigates I28 tonight, turns out he's a godfather. Result - crap, we're screwed. Odds are much higher for 1 and 2 than 3 (a 1 in 21 chance I28 is the Godfather, if one is in this game), so it seems like the smart play, to me. Why do you disagree? well for one, #3 is by far the worst scenario for town and best case scenario for scum.. Also don't forget, if we're 100% buying his claim, that if he doesn't shoot, there's a 50/50 shot he dies anyway, so 50% chance that investigation is wasted. If he does shoot, probably a 75% chance he takes out town Not really liking the cop directing, but not ready to get all jvor'y on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Why would I28 admit to a role that clearly doesn't do much for the town? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A So if we have a roleblocker he neuters the ape, but it's probably a considerable if.. Does DM regularly have townie roleblockers, it's almos always a scum role here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Why would I28 admit to a role that clearly doesn't do much for the town? it has a lot of value to the town, even more if he didn't mention the bulletproof thing .. But either way, at end game a confirmed bullet proof is a vice grip on scum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I28 - At first I didn't find his act to be too overly scummy (at least no more so than usual). After all, he acts like a batsh*t crazy ape no matter what, whether he's town and I of course still saw it as his teammate last game. That said, his reveal absolutely reeks to me. I'm not sure what about that role is even slightly pro-town. Consider that it's generally considered best practice for a vig to holster as much as possible, because you're that much more likely to kill town than scum, and now we're meant to believe he's forced to submit a kill on night one or possibly die himself? He either got saddled with the worst "pro-town" role in history or he's completely full of it. Honestly, at this point I feel more inclined to think this is one of those instances where a scum or third party tries to take facts from their real role and try to play it into a town friendly role as a means to try to use it as evidence later when it turns out they can do what they said they can do. I know I pulled that move as Sylar in the TV Land game and have seen plenty of others do it as well. That, and I see very little downside in his lynch. Even if he's telling the truth, we end up with pretty much an even trade, by saving another likely-town death by his hand, which could end up having a much more important role. Unvote Vote I28 the value in saving i28 is significant, if we think he's telling the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't think so. The first and only time I've ever been vig, The first night I killed scum, the second night I tagetted scum (he couldn't die), the third night I targetted the sk (he also couldn't be nk'd) and the 4th night I killed scum, and then I got daykilled *mutters* anyway I think vig is a highly good role and not always bad. Yes they may hit an innocent, but they may hit scum *shrugs* I just don't like the idea of killing off someone who is town because their role may or may not end up being used wrong. I've taken one vig shot in my entire mafia career, and I hit scum - but you and I are a lot better at this game than most people. I think his role is more dangerous to the town than not, and really, really don't want to run anymore trains with anymore reveals (real or not) today. vote: I28 Sorry dude, even though I tend to believe you, I believe this is the best move for the town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 it has a lot of value to the town, even more if he didn't mention the bulletproof thing .. But either way, at end game a confirmed bullet proof is a vice grip on scum the value in saving i28 is significant, if we think he's telling the truth Everyone else is saying I28's role kinda sucks. And I'm a noob who doesn't know either way who to trust on that one. Thus, majority rules. FOS on you, CTM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Townie roleblocker is common on DM. Probably more so than scum roleblocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Everyone else is saying I28's role kinda sucks. And I'm a noob who doesn't know either way who to trust on that one. Thus, majority rules. FOS on you, CTM. The must shoot by day 1 vig part sucks, the bullet proof is valuable... a confirmed bullet proof is gold.. a godfather masquerading as the confirmed bullet proof is toxic.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just got back from meetings, and will be in and out for the rest of the day, and I'm not going to be on at all tonight. I see I'm drawing heat. I'll try to go back and ease any concerns. Give me a sec. I'm assuming its around the whole missing J80 killed SMC part. All I can say now is sorry, would be pretty stupid if I was scum not to defend and just admit I missed it. But whatevs, we got a bunch of Einsteins out there, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't think he should be investigated right now. I don't see what good it does us, tbh, assuming you think JC should tell us his result tomorrow. Even if he's protected in the kitchen, whose to say he isn't protected in the next room and dies tomorrow night? He might even vet himself if he shoots someone tonight and tells us who it is during the night, and we see them die sometime later, or if he tells us he didn't shoot anyone, and then dies himself. If he doesn't shoot anyone and doesn't die, then I think it might be a good idea, but right now it doesn't make sense to me. Scum also won't know if he's protected in other rooms - which means they need to weigh the trouble of a confirmed innocent against the possibility of a wasted nightkill. I'm actually getting curious about the people pushing hard to lynch the monkey. A bulletproof (or even potentially bulletproof) confirmed townie is the mafia's worst nightmare - he won't be lynched by the town, and you can't kill him at night. (or, at best, you know your kill has a real chance of failing, just like aiming at a potentially protected cop). Which means that if I were scum, I'd be pushing hard to lynch him today, before he could be confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Everyone else is saying I28's role kinda sucks. And I'm a noob who doesn't know either way who to trust on that one. Thus, majority rules. FOS on you, CTM. The semi-bulletproof thing is a very valuable town attribute. If he's cleared as a townie (Doggin's desire to have him investigated), and the scum is afraid to waste their NK (night kill) attempt on him, he can be an important player at endgame. Trouble for me is that keeping him around requires him taking a shot at someone tonight (statistically, a 75% chance he hits town), or he avoids the shot, and has a 50% chance of dying anyway. Meanwhile, we run up another train and get another reveal that we have to figure out what to do with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ur all over the map...making up the story as you go along...twice you argued that it came down to lynching you or another for info the vote should fall on you...then you vote Wombat and Vic...grasping for straws to save ur own a$$...the you make a ridiculous claim that most likely than not, hurts the town further...do you have any integrity at all left? Lynch all liars! That's a fairly damning point.. i28, what were you thinking when you said you'd prefer to be lynched for information? i think i28 is at 8 or 9 now, so going to unvote for now UNVOTE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 So you're claiming you missed a page? Well first of all it was multiple pages starting here: page 9 page 10 page 11 page 11 you're talking about it as if you know what's going on page 11 again you're even responding to one of 80's posts about the "trigger" but you have no idea how it was set off? Dont know what happened dude, but look at my response...clearly I was under the impression the room did it and not J80. I thought that was speculation. I get that it was a couple of page discussion, just must have missed when Lily confirmed J80 triggered. Thats all I got. I guess thats scummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I always tend to think Vig's are more dangerous to the town than the scum. Even if I like I28's potential targets, odds are that we lynch a different innocent player today, and he kills another innocent player... eventually. Or he dies anyway. You're only looking at the Vig aspect of his role, and ignoring the "Bulletproof" aspect. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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