What is the hype for Wilkerson?

[#27TheDominator]

When Leonard Williams was asked which vets have helped him he said Snacks and Sheldon no mention of Mo.. Snacks has clearly taken Little Kitty under his wing..

That was like 10 minutes after Wilkerson reported.  It's not shock that he wasn't going to have as much contact with the guy that sat out OTAs and was injured for the earlier part of camp. 

[RutgersJetFan]

Non compos mentis, the lot of you. Wilkerson was awesome yesterday.

[FidelioJet]

Who made him out to be that way? He's a very good defensive player

He and many Jet fans made him out that way. 

Rex made him out that way - calling him the best defensive player this side of JJ Watt....when HC's like Rex Ryan say things like that people tend to believe it.  True or not...

I like Mo, I hope he stays a Jet but let's just make sure we understand what he is...a very good defensive linemen.

[Savage69]

That was like 10 minutes after Wilkerson reported.  It's not shock that he wasn't going to have as much contact with the guy that sat out OTAs and was injured for the earlier part of camp. 

This was during training camp and Mo was there for the Mandatory mini camp.. So if a player has a injury that means he can't talk to a rookie and give him pointers??LOL

[#27TheDominator]

This was during training camp and Mo was there for the Mandatory mini camp.. So if a player has a injury that means he can't talk to a rookie and give him pointers??LOL

When you are standing on the field practicing with a guy you will have more impact than a guy you see getting treatment from the trainers.  Not sure what you are LOL'ing about but I think putting any stock in that is ridiculous.   Sheldon is a good role model, Mo a bad one.  LOL is ******* a-one right.

[ylekram]

What are people watching?

Why do you think Snacks had such a great game?  because the oline was focused on Wilkerson...and who did they put on Wilkerson?  Joe Thomas with help.  GTFOH.  It took the best OT in football with help to hold Wilkerson to 5 tackles and 1 sack...and that decision by Cleveland made everything easier for Snacks, Williams, and David Harris...

He's one of our best defensive players, probably only after Revis, on the team.  Wait till Richardson gets back and teams can't double Wilkerson.  Snacks and Big Cat should make plays all day, teams arent even focusing on them.

its basically the nose tackles job description to be doubled on every play. snacks gets doubled on every play. as limited as snacks job is, he is better than every player on the jets at doing his job.

[Jet Nut]

That was like 10 minutes after Wilkerson reported.  It's not shock that he wasn't going to have as much contact with the guy that sat out OTAs and was injured for the earlier part of camp. 

it also came at a time he was practicing with Snacks and Sheldon while Mo was off the field rehabbing.  

[Savage69]

When you are standing on the field practicing with a guy you will have more impact than a guy you see getting treatment from the trainers.  Not sure what you are LOL'ing about but I think putting any stock in that is ridiculous.   Sheldon is a good role model, Mo a bad one.  LOL is ******* a-one right.

Your making excuses because Mo didn't seem to be one of the players to help the rookie that was the LOL.. It wasn't about role models it was about helping a rookie. I was referring to what Williams said about who helped him and your defending Mo with no fact at all except what you make up.. Is Mo helping now? Maybe he is he seems to be a really good guy so that wouldn't surprise me at all..

[Jetlife33]

Was his name even called during the game? He never even brought any pressure on the QB I could see. For a 16 million dollar a year player which his agent is demanding that was a pretty quite game.

David Harris (3.2), Mo Wilkerson (2.9) and Calvin Pryor/Leonard Williams (1.3) your highest-graded D players for #Jets (PFF).

[hawk]

Cleveland has a pretty good offensive line, and the one person you have to game plan for on our defensive line is Wilkerson.  I was watching a very bad stream yesterday, so I can't contribute on how Wilk did, but I would assume the focus was on Wilk.  Probably why Williams and Harrison were more noticeable.  

[ylekram]

Exactly.  Which is why the Jets aren't planning to give Wilkerson money on JJ Watt's level, as well they shouldn't.  But JJ Watt is a once-in-a-generation type player.  Saying Wilkerson is on a tier below JJ Watt isn't a knock on Wilkerson.  Mo was a late 1st rounder and has blossomed into one of the game's top 30 (or so) defensive players.  Arguments to trade him away are pure nonsense at this point. 

With Richardson suspended most of the season and no reason whatsoever to count on him in the long-term, Wilkerson is the only elite player on this team under 30.  He plays a central role in whatever Macc/Bowles plan to do with this team over the next 3+ years.  It's not a matter of IF he'll get paid by the Jets, its WHEN.

the jets are in a fabulous place at the defensive line position. we always admired teams like pittsburg and the pats, who would lose key players and the next man up would not skip a beat. well, the jets have arrived there, at least at the d-lineman position. they have 4 capable starters at 2 positions. you have mo, looking for his payday. Richardson, while having some off field issues, is a better player than mo and who the jets control on the cheap for at least 3 years. then you have coples, who can most likely be re-signed a lot cheaper than mo, who should not be playing olb, but should be throwing on 30 pounds and playing on the line. imo, would be just as affective as mo going against the right tackle. and finally you have Williams, who still has a lot to learn, but looked decent going against joe Thomas all game.imo, he will be better than mo.

 there really is no need to re-sign mo and I don't think the jets brass will. I believe the jets will trade mo, re-sign coples and snacks, find another olb, and keep Richardson on the cheap to see if he straightens out. in the end, they get a 1st rounder, re-sign coples and snacks for the price that mo will get, bulk up coples to man the d-line, find a better olb in the draft or free agency, all while not missing a beat and actually improving the front 7

[32EBoozer]

http://thejetsblog.com/bga/bga-big-cat-and-the-top-dog/#more-99049

 

BGA: Big Cat and the Top Dog

September 14th, 2015 11:30 am

While this Muhammad Wilkerson contract stand-off has endured all offseason, I’ve been trying to rationalize it. Maybe Wilkerson’s role is more affordably replaceable with Bowles’ scheme. Maybe Leonard Williams is going to play so well that he becomes surplus to requirements. Maybe I just overrated him this whole time.

Yesterday’s game assuredly confirmed one thing: This Wilkerson guy is good, you guys. Like, really, really good.

When I read that the main difference between this system and the one Rex employed was that the linemen were coached up to be aggressive and not to worry about making reads, I was concerned that this would take away one of the best parts of Wilkerson’s game (and Sheldon Richardson too, for that matter). Wilkerson is such an instinctive player that if you take that responsibility away from him, you not only limit what he can do, but perhaps make it uneconomical to consider paying him big money when you can get a less-talented player to do the same thing.

On the basis of yesterday’s display, I did not need to be concerned. Any lingering concerns that Wilkerson might not be motivated to play well this year can be similarly set aside.

Wilkerson had a great performance, blowing up multiple runs, disrupting the pocket and drawing a ton of attention as he provided a reminder of why there’s even a discussion taking place about whether he deserves to earn a contract approaching a nine-figure sum. He was credited with one sack, on one of the plays where Johnny Manziel fumbled and was hardly ever handled at the line despite the fact he saw plenty of attention from pro bowlers Alex Mack and Joe Thomas. He even ran over Mack up the middle for a pressure on one play.

If Williams is going to be better than Wilkerson one day, he still has a way to go, but it was still a solid debut from the rookie. He did a good job of bottling up runs, getting penetration and forcing the quarterback out of the pocket. Williams almost had a couple of sacks, missing one chance to make a tackle in the pocket and tripping Johnny Manziel for a short gain on a play where he had to take off. There was one play against the run where a good reach block prevented him from getting downhill, but otherwise he wasn’t blocked out of too many plays.

Anchoring the line, Damon Harrison had a couple of tackles in the backfield, including one on a play where Wilkerson blew up a double-team to free him up. He also got some good defensive penetration. However, he was driven out of the middle more than you would usually expect to see. I think Harrison probably has the biggest adjustment to make in terms of the new system, so would expect him to get better as the season goes along.

You have to give Leger Douzable credit. The fan favorite was a late re-addition in free agency and his roster spot wasn’t exactly secure when they brought in three veterans including a player who had played for Bowles in the past. However, he’s been playing with the first-team nickel all preseason and has kept that role into the regular season, even with Wilkerson’s return. He, for the time being, has a pretty significant role. It will be interesting to see how that changes when Richardson is back.

Douzable might not rack up big numbers, but did a consistent job of driving back the pocket to enable other players to generate pressure or force the quarterback out of these. He also drew two holding penalties, one on Mack as he was able to stunt up the middle and would have hit the quarterback and another as he was tackled to the ground while Manziel took off and he tried to make the tackle. He did jump offside once though, almost timing the snap count well enough to tackle the quarterback before he handed the ball off.

I liked the fact that TJ Barnes and Stephen Bowen got a handful of reps off the bench. Under Rex Ryan, defensive players would often be active but then not get many reps as he overused his starters. It wasn’t exactly encouraging to see the run defense gashed as soon as they entered the game though, as both were handled at the line. Bowen does get some good traction going forwards, but does seem to risk a hands-to-the-face call quite a lot.

[Savage69]

the jets are in a fabulous place at the defensive line position. we always admired teams like pittsburg and the pats, who would lose key players and the next man up would not skip a beat. well, the jets have arrived there, at least at the d-lineman position. they have 4 capable starters at 2 positions. you have mo, looking for his payday. Richardson, while having some off field issues, is a better player than mo and who the jets control on the cheap for at least 3 years. then you have coples, who can most likely be re-signed a lot cheaper than mo, who should not be playing olb, but should be throwing on 30 pounds and playing on the line. imo, would be just as affective as mo going against the right tackle. and finally you have Williams, who still has a lot to learn, but looked decent going against joe Thomas all game.imo, he will be better than mo.

 there really is no need to re-sign mo and I don't think the jets brass will. I believe the jets will trade mo, re-sign coples and snacks, find another olb, and keep Richardson on the cheap to see if he straightens out. in the end, they get a 1st rounder, re-sign coples and snacks for the price that mo will get, bulk up coples to man the d-line, find a better olb in the draft or free agency, all while not missing a beat and actually improving the front 7

When I see Coples at LB'er it reminds me of when Hermie tried to make a excellent DE Ellis into a DT by adding weight.. That was a huge failure and so is making Coples a LB'er..

[JustInFudge]

Wilkerson had a couple stops at the LOS yesterday, however a player who imo had a better day was Snacks. Im telling you, if I had to decide im keeping Sheldon and Snacks and trading Wilk. We have more than enough starters and depth at the position. Signing Wilk means letting Snacks go which would be retarded to do. He's arguably the best at the position and we would have no player to replace him. Wilkerson is good, heck he's very good, but the way our team is set up we're in a position to trade him and replace him with current talent.

He had a good game yesterday though...just didnt stand out.

Snacks was the MVP of the D yesterday.  He was destroying the OL.  Half of the plays made at/or around the LOS was because Snacks literally blew the entire OL up!

He was a monster yesterday.  Mo was good, but Snacks was dominating.  Not exactly the way to go out and prove you deserve a big time contract.  

The D misses Sheldon, big time. 

[Jetsfan80]

Agree that's the point.

The point YOU are making, but not everyone.  Several people took the OP's post and ran too far with it, saying we need to be keeping Sheldon around instead of Wilk.  Clearly those people feel Wilk is overrated and NOT the best commodity we have.  With Sheldon's off-the-field issues, there is no question in my mind Richardson should be the guy playing out the string on the remainder of his contract in a "show me" situation. 

If the only topic of the thread was "Should we pay Wilkerson QB money?" the answer would be a simple "Hell no" and everyone would move on with their lives.  The gray area exists in that the Jets need to figure out what IS fair compensation for Wilkerson, and that's based on how they value him. 

[ylekram]

When I see Coples at LB'er it reminds me of when Hermie tried to make a excellent DE Ellis into a DT by adding weight.. That was a huge failure and so is making Coples a LB'er..

you need to be somewhat of a quick twitch athlete to play olb. coples best attributes are brutal strength, agility, and leverage. doesn't fit the bill. he will never be half the player at olb than he would be d-lineman. coples is best suited as a 300 lb interior lineman in a 4-3. I might get blasted for this, but I believe coples at 290-300 lbs would play better than mo going against the right tackle in a 3-4. I don't see how extending mo at 11,12,13m would benefit the jets, especially when I think the other 3 guys are/will be better. I would look at an extension of mo as a loss of a high draft pick and possibly just as good or better players(snacks & coples)

[Augustiniak]

you need to be somewhat of a quick twitch athlete to play olb. coples best attributes are brutal strength, agility, and leverage. doesn't fit the bill. he will never be half the player at olb than he would be d-lineman. coples is best suited as a 300 lb interior lineman in a 4-3. I might get blasted for this, but I believe coples at 290-300 lbs would play better than mo going against the right tackle in a 3-4. I don't see how extending mo at 11,12,13m would benefit the jets, especially when I think the other 3 guys are/will be better. I would look at an extension of mo as a loss of a high draft pick and possibly just as good or better players(snacks & coples)

coples is not a good player and he's certainly not better than mo.  

[ylekram]

coples is not a good player and he's certainly not better than mo.  

and you know this how?

[Augustiniak]

and you know this how?

i watch jet games, listen to what analysts say and look at stats.  i know, crazy.

[ylekram]

i watch jet games, listen to what analysts say and look at stats.  i know, crazy.

how about we plug mo wilks in at olb. then you can watch him play,listen to the analysts, and look at his stats. by the way, how did coples play the defensive end position(50 lbs lighter, I might add) when mo wilks was injured? he sucked,right? I can answer that for you. the d-line didn't miss a beat.I know, ,crazy.

[Augustiniak]

how about we plug mo wilks in at olb. then you can watch him play,listen to the analysts, and look at his stats. by the way, how did coples play the defensive end position(50 lbs lighter, I might add) when mo wilks was injured? he sucked,right? I know, ,crazy.

coples lines up on the line more often than he's out in space regardless of what is his listed position is.  at the end of the day he's just not a factor in that many plays, wherever he lines up.  we all keep waiting for him to turn this elusive corner and with the defensive talent they have he's not being double teamed.  it's like sanchez and geno, how many years can you make excuses for players who don't improve?

[ylekram]

coples lines up on the line more often than he's out in space regardless of what is his listed position is.  at the end of the day he's just not a factor in that many plays, wherever he lines up.  we all keep waiting for him to turn this elusive corner and with the defensive talent they have he's not being double teamed.  it's like sanchez and geno, how many years can you make excuses for players who don't improve?

what was the drop off between mo and coples when mo was injured? be honest here. did you see any? regardless of where coples lines up when playing olb, he is not a pass rusher. that's the olb's job on passing downs when lined up on the line. is it not?  if coples is not a pass rusher and not an olb, wouldn't your eyes tell you, the analysts tell you, and the stats tell you? but when he plays d-line for an injured mo and there is no drop off, that should also tell you something.no?

[drdetroit]

Wilk is good but some jet fans really overrate him.

[ylekram]

Wilk is good but some jet fans really overrate him.

I don't think mo see's a dime of new jet money. what say you?

[Savage69]

I don't think mo see's a dime of new jet money. what say you?

I don't think he see's the kind of money he wants as a Jet how's that??

[#27TheDominator]

you need to be somewhat of a quick twitch athlete to play olb. coples best attributes are brutal strength, agility, and leverage. doesn't fit the bill. he will never be half the player at olb than he would be d-lineman. coples is best suited as a 300 lb interior lineman in a 4-3. I might get blasted for this, but I believe coples at 290-300 lbs would play better than mo going against the right tackle in a 3-4. I don't see how extending mo at 11,12,13m would benefit the jets, especially when I think the other 3 guys are/will be better. I would look at an extension of mo as a loss of a high draft pick and possibly just as good or better players(snacks & coples)

I'm not going to blast you, but I am going to say that I strongly disagree.  People are posting that they didn't notice Mo yesterday and you are going to tout Coples? 

If you think you can get a first or better for him I could see wanting to move him, especially if Williams pans out.  OTOH, you think Snacks and Coples are better?  I think that is way out there.  Snacks is great, but his position is pretty limited.  If you think Coples is better, I could understand wanting to extend him, but I literally don't think anybody agrees with you.  They exercised the option on Coples for 2016 which is pushing $8M.  IMO Wilkerson is worth considerably more.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Snacks is great at his defined role, however he is not an every down player. Good teams do not get rid of All-Pro, every-down defensive lineman, unless they're offered the world for them.  

[cant wait]

you need to be somewhat of a quick twitch athlete to play olb. coples best attributes are brutal strength, agility, and leverage. doesn't fit the bill. he will never be half the player at olb than he would be d-lineman. coples is best suited as a 300 lb interior lineman in a 4-3. I might get blasted for this, but I believe coples at 290-300 lbs would play better than mo going against the right tackle in a 3-4. I don't see how extending mo at 11,12,13m would benefit the jets, especially when I think the other 3 guys are/will be better. I would look at an extension of mo as a loss of a high draft pick and possibly just as good or better players(snacks & coples)

it depends on the player, guys like hali and suggs don't fit the quick twitch description but are able to win with power and ability to shed blocks

[ylekram]

Snacks is great at his defined role, however he is not an every down player. Good teams do not get rid of All-Pro, every-down defensive lineman, unless they're offered the world for them.  

unfortunately, mo is not an all pro player. not imo. he is a very good player wanting a big payday. he might be worth a big payday to another team, but with the way the roster looks now, not to the jets

[Saul Goodman]

This thread is embarrassing. Watch the game again, then just focus on Wilkerson every play. In fact, do that for virtually any game he's played. You'll see the same thing - an excellent player.

[ylekram]

I'm not going to blast you, but I am going to say that I strongly disagree.  People are posting that they didn't notice Mo yesterday and you are going to tout Coples? 

If you think you can get a first or better for him I could see wanting to move him, especially if Williams pans out.  OTOH, you think Snacks and Coples are better?  I think that is way out there.  Snacks is great, but his position is pretty limited.  If you think Coples is better, I could understand wanting to extend him, but I literally don't think anybody agrees with you.  They exercised the option on Coples for 2016 which is pushing $8M.  IMO Wilkerson is worth considerably more.

yes, I think coples would be a beast going against the right tackle. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. jmo. I think mo is a really good player, not all pro. if the jets d-line didn't have the depth it has, I would want to re-sign mo. he would be worth keeping at a nice pay check IF there wasn't 3 other guys who could handle the position almost as good, as good, or better. all the while, at least for the next 3 years or so, cheaper. plus mo has real trade value. a 1st rounder is not out of the realm

snacks does his job better than anyone else on the team, limited or not. yes, heis only a 2 down player, but he wouldn't cost a fortune to re-sign him either. my point is the jets have a lot of talent on the d-line and 3 of them want some money next year. something has got to give. if given the choice between signing mo to a 12m contract OR signing both coples & Harrison at about the same money plus get a 1st rounder in return, well I think that is a no brainer