Ocean Mafia

[StraightCash]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Blah, whatever.  I'm not gonna beat a dead horse.  I've contributed enough thoughts on the matter.  Time for Pac and others to do so as well.

I really really hope your not scum because I feel like you've been my spirit animal all day.

[Integrity28]

37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Question a claim = "creating hypotheticals that underminde credibility".  So in other words, we should buy every claim at face value, and leave you and your neighbors alone.  

Was it "building a narrative" when you "undermined" CTM too?  You voted CTM right out of the gate, not because you thought he was scum, but because of "false logic".  Meaning, unlike me, you assumed CTM was town, but wanted him dead anyways.  Yeah, I get that you and CTM played some fake gay swordfight game just to try to "out scum", but even after you admitted that's what you were doing, said you'd lynch him because he'd be a "distraction".

I didn't build a narrative when I challenged CTM, I just called him stupid, because he cited the wrong odds. I didn't make up some story about how he was the boogeyman fooling us all again... like you're essentially doing about me.

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And lets just assume you're wrong (which you are) and I'm town for a moment.  Is Pac your # 2?  Or would you just hide him deep on your list of 5?

Yup. Pac rounds out my top 3, if he posted more, then maybe he'd climb. As of now, there's not enough content from him to have as much confidence in him being town as you seem to. Like I've said, you seem like you are tying me to Pac to set up my lynch. I guess you know he's scum.

34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ape is now accusing both Brett and me of "undermining him".   What, are you appointed town leader now?  Deal with it.  Undermining is part of the game when you don't know what everyone's alignment is.  Only a scum czar or an uncountered power role (which you are not) would feel the need to use that word. 

 

What do you mean "now"? I've said it for pages, about you both.

More narrative in bold. 

You're doing all this work to attack, undermine and discredit my position... but you don't seem to think I'm scum. That's should be the most telling bit in all of this, for those that aren't sure what to make of it.

[Gone]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Those spread by hugging.

No. The spreading comes after.

[Integrity28]

37 minutes ago, StraightCash said:

It hurts his "credibility", even though the whole damn point of the game is no one has credibility short of mod confirm or investigation 

This is a bullsh*t post.

Logic is credibility.

Straight-forward play is credibility.

Town-favoring behavior is credibility.

The whole point of the game is to build credibility with the other players, earn trust, and work together. Neither you, or 80, seem to think I'm scum... yet you are both hammering away at every little thing I am saying. It's like a character assassination. That is an attack on credibility.

You are both selling out to undermine my position as a pro-town influencer and to tie me to Pac.

[Integrity28]

43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Didn't you hear?  Nolder mod-confirmed that Ape, Crusher and Pac are definitely neighbors and not a scum team and that we should all just leave them alone and stop undermining them.  Vote someone else like 80 or Brett because stupid.

Fake emo is fake. 

My rationale for voting you is sound. No matter how much you melt down, the logic of voting my best scum read will always hold up better than "vote one of the neighbors before learning more about the setup to determine if one might be scum". Or your other suggestion to "vote all 3 neighbors in succession because Ape is running a gambit". 

I mean, have you heard the nonsense storytelling you've been polluting the thread with? Total scum.

39 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That should confirm me as town like it did Smash last game right?  Right.

Had to plant that seed, eh?

[Integrity28]

Normally by now, I begin to second-guess my read depending on how it has been argued, but 80's given me nothing worth reconsidering. In fact, I'm digging in deeper... the narratives about me running a gambit, the way he bit on my decoy play earlier after CTM's reveal, the undermining, and the attempts to connect me to Pac... all good enough for D1.

I also don't care for the way he's tried to appeal to the "80 gets lynched every D1" meta. He's fresh off of making it almost to end game as scum. That "easy lynch" bullsh*t is trash.

[Integrity28]

36 minutes ago, CTM said:

oh my dear 80, i do not want you to be scum but I can feel my heart being broken more and more with each successive post

Are you voting 80, or just nudging suspicion of him? What's your goal here?

[CTM]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Are you voting 80, or just nudging suspicion of him? What's your goal here?

well i'd like to lynch AVM but 80 is looking more and more dirty so I'm leaning towards moving my vote.

Actually he's looking extremely dirty with this whole neighbors thing, but i had him as town earlier and first impressions die hard

[StraightCash]

5 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Are you voting 80, or just nudging suspicion of him? What's your goal here?

Don't undermine him with this narrative

[Integrity28]

Just now, StraightCash said:

Don't undermine him with this narrative

You are playing like bitter scum that is pissed he's caught on D1 in two straight games, just so you know.

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Are you voting 80, or just nudging suspicion of him? What's your goal here?

To ruin everything?

[Jet_Engine1]

 

I dont know why, but I keep seeing this image in my mind for this theme...

.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

well i'd like to lynch AVM but 80 is looking more and more dirty so I'm leaning towards moving my vote.

Actually he's looking extremely dirty with this whole neighbors thing, but i had him as town earlier and first impressions die hard

Can you rank AVM, 80, Brett and Pac for me?

I had 80 for town early, before he bit on my decoy play from your reveal, since then he's been terribly scummy.

I'm really perplexed by how badly Brett is playing, regardless of his alignment, he's doing nothing to pursue his own suspicion on Crusher, and is purely playing to tear me down, and for some reason defending 80. Makes no sense, it would be absolutely terrible if both 80 and Brett were both scum to do this.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

I dont know why, but I keep seeing this image in my mind for this theme...

.

Who do you think is scum?

[StraightCash]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You are playing like bitter scum that is pissed he's caught on D1 in two straight games, just so you know.

I'm pointing out what a hypocrit you are. If someone challenges you or pokes holes in your argument they are scum that is undermining your credibility. When you do it, it's scum hunting and strong townie play. Ready to move on?

[StraightCash]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

 

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

 

I'm really perplexed by how badly Brett is playing, regardless of his alignment

This is the first ping of the game from you, and why I like to aggravate people until they say something that stands out.

this is how scum sets up a lynch and still looks clean

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Who do you think is scum?

If that was the picture he got in his pm... Im guessing him?   LOL

[Nolder]

23 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

I dont know why, but I keep seeing this image in my mind for this theme...

.

I was originally just going to do a game all about sharks but then I decided it'd be more interesting to do all sea creatures.

[CTM]

39 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Can you rank AVM, 80, Brett and Pac for me?

I had 80 for town early, before he bit on my decoy play from your reveal, since then he's been terribly scummy.

I'm really perplexed by how badly Brett is playing, regardless of his alignment, he's doing nothing to pursue his own suspicion on Crusher, and is purely playing to tear me down, and for some reason defending 80. Makes no sense, it would be absolutely terrible if both 80 and Brett were both scum to do this.

Brett has consistently been pushing ideas, so much so that it reads more like clueless town that just looks scummy... except for the fact that he played out front last game as 3rd party, so maybe he's that arrogant to think he can play aggressively scummy and talk his way out of it. You also seem to have gotten under his skin which is what I'm reading his bitchiness as (mostly null tell, but slightly scum leaning in his approach)

80 seemed town but has really gone full tin foil since the neighbors claim, not sure what to make of it but he seems dirty now, appealling to his i always get lynched day 1 meta but he also seems to be legitimately frustrated with you in a way that's a bit more town like than brett

Pac is playing a carbon copy of his last 2 games, disinterested scum.  Pretty sure he likes playing as a townie better and it looks to me like he's particularly tired of being scum after catching it 3 times in a row

AVM is coasting while appearing active. I imagine he's not near the bottom of post counts, but is near the bottom of actual content (just a guess though). Seems to be talking about previous games more than the current. Would love to put him on hot seat

[Spoot-Face]

Okay, been away for a lot longer than I had planned, but here are my impressions so far:

CTM's reveal: I'm inclined to believe him. True, he could have been keeping that one in his back pocket, or even just quickly looked it up after he got his PM, but I've got no meta on him and I haven't personally seen any history to indicate that he'd make such a big, fake reveal on PAGE 1. And I completely buy his reasons for claiming this early in order to protect any town PRs. I'd probably be inclined to do exactly the same if I were given that role. So far, CTM is clean in my book.

Brett: His play/logic has seemed a little odd to me. What immediately stood out to me, without anyone else having to point it out, was when he admitted that outing the cop is generally bad for town, but perhaps it wouldn't be as bad since Town just won the previous game without the cop from D2 and on. Genuinely trying to look at all possible outcomes and options, or a scummy way of advocating the cop outs himself because that helps scum? I don't know. Dicey.

80: I agree he has looked a little "flail-y" lately and does seem to be cherry picking comments from Ape and trying to twist them around. He could just be skeptical of Ape's reveal, but it does seem like he's trying to focus the town's attention on Ape.

Pac: I definitely see the similarities between his play this game and the last (where he was scum). I haven't played with him long enough to really know if this is his normal scum play, or just his normal play in general, but it's duly noted.

My thoughts on Ape's reveal will get it's own post.

[CTM]

damn spoot is the best new edition in a long while 

[Pac]

8 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Not really. 

Neither of them will say if they agree with me, so I'm just going to do it.

Pac, Crusher and I are Neighbors. We have our own QT. My assumption early on was that one of us was scum, and Pac is standing out most right now.

However, Pac did make a good point, that this could be a conversion game and all 3 of us might have started as town. So, the way I look at it, being transparent about the Neighbors role now is probably for the best, because if there are conversions, then we'll stop using the QT after we see one. If not, we're still going to suspect that 1 of the 3 of us is scum.

As per Pac's theory: CTM's claim, if he's the conversion leader, would be brilliant.

Not sure why Pac was reluctant to share this here in-thread, but said it in the QT.

I said 20 times I started a new gig this week..  been in training the whole time.  Not sure why you shared this..  I wanted to see who was going to come after me and JiF predictably was leading the charge.

Dude is scum.

[StraightCash]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

I said 20 times I started a new gig this week..  been in training the whole time.  Not sure why you shared this..  I wanted to see who was going to come after me and JiF predictably was leading the charge.

Dude is scum.

Ape or Jif?

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, StraightCash said:

I'm pointing out what a hypocrit you are. If someone challenges you or pokes holes in your argument they are scum that is undermining your credibility. When you do it, it's scum hunting and strong townie play. Ready to move on?

Except, you aren't.

You aren't "poking holes" in my argument. This is my "argument": I revealed. Neighbors are not guaranteed to all be town. I wanted you guys to know that, so that you can leverage the info as we learn more collectively. I'm voting 80, because I have him as my top scum read.

Straight-forward play. What you are doing is taking pot-shots at parts of what I'm saying, in hopes it drowns out the larger point. 

2 hours ago, StraightCash said:

This is the first ping of the game from you, and why I like to aggravate people until they say something that stands out.

this is how scum sets up a lynch and still looks clean

As if on cue... I call you both out for taking this much time and energy to smear me, but neither of you is voting me. So what do you do? "Oh, Ape just pinged."

Sloppy play brah, regardless of your alignment. Pure slop.

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, Pac said:

I said 20 times I started a new gig this week..  been in training the whole time.  Not sure why you shared this..  I wanted to see who was going to come after me and JiF predictably was leading the charge.

Dude is scum.

This makes zero sense.

If you wanted to see who came after you, then it would have had to be shared. Yet, you are griping that I shared it?

If JIF is scum, then what do we do with CTM the cult leader? You're still voting him.

[Spoot-Face]

Ape's reveal: As I've never heard of Neighbors before this game (I had to mafiawiki it) I really have no opinion on whether it's normal, or makes sense, or fits in this game, or what have you, so I'm pretty much taking it at face value. And yes, as Ape and Crusher, and JiF (I think) have all said "them being neighbors has no bearing on their alignment" so, I don't believe it's an attempt to attract attention away from themselves. Again, I don't know what the normal make-up of Neighbors would be, but the wikia (I mentioned this to CTM earlier) says that if they are three Neighbors, than there is a pretty good chance that one of them is scum.

Now, about 80's(?) theory/suggestion/whatever about this being a reveal to cover up all three of them being scum, well I don't think that'd happen. What would be the point of Nolder making the scum and neighbor "teams" all in the same unless just to fvck with us? I don't know Nolder, so I can't make that assumption. I do wholeheartedly support the consideration--or at least the rumination--of any and all possibilities in a game, but it seems this theory is simply paranoia based meta of Ape making a big, scummy, splash right over our heads. I did just witness him concoct an elaborate fake reveal last game, but I'd argue that this one overtakes that one in pure, furry, ballsyness, and that one didn't quite work out well. Now, of course you have WIFOM "well, since that one didn't work no one would be expecting another one right after... yadda yadda yadda". I don't see any actual evidence from this game that says Ape's reveal is a farce, and, from a townie's prospective, I don't see how even suggesting this verbally--without any evidence--does anything but damage to the town.

On the note about cultists and conversions--which, again, I had to look up--I'm still trying to figure out how they play in this. Ape suggested that if there are no conversions than it's likely that one of Ape, Pac, Crush is scum. I buy that. Then he said that if there is a conversion, than it could be that they are all town. That's the part that I don't get. Do conversion games here have no scum? The wiki seemed to suggest that they could both be in a game, so unless here it's one or the other, I don't see how the presence of cultists would preclude any of them from being scum. Someone will have to clarify that for me. Furthermore, if there are both cultists and mafia, then I don't see how the presence of cultists prove that CTM was lying about his role, as Ape suggested. I can't remember who mentioned it, but someone said that you wouldn't want the Cult Leader targeting CTM early on and ruining the game. The possibility of the leader having a BPV aside, let's say that does happen and the Cult Leader dies without converting anyone. If there are still scum, then so what? The vigilante was lynched on the first day and the game wasn't ruined. I admit, that it'd be unfortunate that an aspect of the game couldn't play out, but I think that's part of the allure of this game. Anything can happen. The game would still go on. What's the fun in modding a game that only has a few predetermined outcomes? Unpredictability makes a fun game, and the possibility of the cult being wiped out on day one should exist. Now, this becomes moot if it's simply Cult Vs Town, with no scum, then I completely understand.

[Spoot-Face]

14 minutes ago, CTM said:

damn spoot is the best new edition in a long while 

[StraightCash]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Except, you aren't.

You aren't "poking holes" in my argument. This is my "argument": I revealed. Neighbors are not guaranteed to all be town. I wanted you guys to know that, so that you can leverage the info as we learn more collectively. I'm voting 80, because I have him as my top scum read.

Straight-forward play. What you are doing is taking pot-shots at parts of what I'm saying, in hopes it drowns out the larger point. 

As if on cue... I call you both out for taking this much time and energy to smear me, but neither of you is voting me. So what do you do? "Oh, Ape just pinged."

Sloppy play brah, regardless of your alignment. Pure slop.

If you want to argue about how I play, we can after the game. In my mind, I poke at inconsistencies and see what kind of reaction there is.

for example, Pac just quoted a post where you say "if there is no conversions then we will suspect 1 of 3 is scum", then later you drag on about how neighbors is a null read. You are consistently inconsistent on how you've approached this entire reveal. I don't know if it's because your scum or if you're just a dog chasing cars. I think it's the latter. 

[StraightCash]

4 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Ape's reveal: As I've never heard of Neighbors before this game (I had to mafiawiki it) I really have no opinion on whether it's normal, or makes sense, or fits in this game, or what have you, so I'm pretty much taking it at face value. And yes, as Ape and Crusher, and JiF (I think) have all said "them being neighbors has no bearing on their alignment" so, I don't believe it's an attempt to attract attention away from themselves. Again, I don't know what the normal make-up of Neighbors would be, but the wikia (I mentioned this to CTM earlier) says that if they are three Neighbors, than there is a pretty good chance that one of them is scum.

Now, about 80's(?) theory/suggestion/whatever about this being a reveal to cover up all three of them being scum, well I don't think that'd happen. What would be the point of Nolder making the scum and neighbor "teams" all in the same unless just to fvck with us? I don't know Nolder, so I can't make that assumption. I do wholeheartedly support the consideration--or at least the rumination--of any and all possibilities in a game, but it seems this theory is simply paranoia based meta of Ape making a big, scummy, splash right over our heads. I did just witness him concoct an elaborate fake reveal last game, but I'd argue that this one overtakes that one in pure, furry, ballsyness, and that one didn't quite work out well. Now, of course you have WIFOM "well, since that one didn't work no one would be expecting another one right after... yadda yadda yadda". I don't see any actual evidence from this game that says Ape's reveal is a farce, and, from a townie's prospective, I don't see how even suggesting this verbally--without any evidence--does anything but damage to the town.

On the note about cultists and conversions--which, again, I had to look up--I'm still trying to figure out how they play in this. Ape suggested that if there are no conversions than it's likely that one of Ape, Pac, Crush is scum. I buy that. Then he said that if there is a conversion, than it could be that they are all town. That's the part that I don't get. Do conversion games here have no scum? The wiki seemed to suggest that they could both be in a game, so unless here it's one or the other, I don't see how the presence of cultists would preclude any of them from being scum. Someone will have to clarify that for me. Furthermore, if there are both cultists and mafia, then I don't see how the presence of cultists prove that CTM was lying about his role, as Ape suggested. I can't remember who mentioned it, but someone said that you wouldn't want the Cult Leader targeting CTM early on and ruining the game. The possibility of the leader having a BPV aside, let's say that does happen and the Cult Leader dies without converting anyone. If there are still scum, then so what? The vigilante was lynched on the first day and the game wasn't ruined. I admit, that it'd be unfortunate that an aspect of the game couldn't play out, but I think that's part of the allure of this game. Anything can happen. The game would still go on. What's the fun in modding a game that only has a few predetermined outcomes? Unpredictability makes a fun game, and the possibility of the cult being wiped out on day one should exist. Now, this becomes moot if it's simply Cult Vs Town, with no scum, then I completely understand.

I think there's no point discussing conversions until we have reason to believe that conversions are happening. I feel like it keeps getting brought up either as a scare tactic or a distraction.

[Pac]

5 hours ago, Leelou said:

It would be very risky to do as scum. I think that situation will start to work itself out through the course of the game. The one that seems the most scummy of the 3 so far is Pac. 

Did you take the pencil out of your mouth and shove it in your ear?  Your brain is fried.

[Pac]

5 hours ago, JiF said:

still very curious about this...if he came out right away claiming CTM was the cult leader in the QT, his actions, didnt not back his theory up at all.  Which is not very Pac like, especially if its CTM.

why are you trying so hard to get me lynched?

this dude is straight up scared of me.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, StraightCash said:

If you want to argue about how I play, we can after the game. In my mind, I poke at inconsistencies and see what kind of reaction there is.

for example, Pac just quoted a post where you say "if there is no conversions then we will suspect 1 of 3 is scum", then later you drag on about how neighbors is a null read. You are consistently inconsistent on how you've approached this entire reveal. I don't know if it's because your scum or if you're just a dog chasing cars. I think it's the latter. 

You made it about how I play, now you want to whine?

And "how we play" is meta, which is pretty broadly accepted as relevant game analysis.

I haven't been inconsistent, you are either being obtuse or just not getting it. It's not me though.

Neighbors as a role is a null read. That's is a statement, made by CTM, and agreed with by me. So it's not something I "said". 

"If there are no conversions, then we will suspect 1 of 3 is scum" is a condition, or theory. And in the post Pac quoted, it was me sharing with you all HIS theory. So, he said it. I extrapolated on it. It doesn't conflict with the prior statement by CTM that I agreed with. Look at the words "we will suspect". I think it's an absolute given that we will suspect that 1 of the 3 of us is scum if there aren't conversions, for as long as all 3 of us are alive, especially considering that some people ALREADY SUSPECT IT.

So, you have effectively made NO point whatsoever. 

I still contend that you are taking pot shots to hurt my credibility, maybe because you are scum, but the reality that it might be because you're a big ******* twat did just occur to me.

[Spoot-Face]

Just now, StraightCash said:

I think there's no point discussing conversions until we have reason to believe that conversions are happening. I feel like it keeps getting brought up either as a scare tactic or a distraction.

Good point. I only mentioned it because it was mentioned and it was one of the few things that I had an opinion on or question about.

I should've noted that the conversion theory apparently came from Pac via Ape, so there isn't any evidence on it.

It's interesting, too, that Pac theorized that if there are conversions, than perhaps all three of them started town. I wonder if that was before or after Ape called him scum. Could be a convenient and clever cover for Pac to conceal himself as scum.

[Pac]

5 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I'm town. I believe Crusher is town at the moment. The theory is that IF this is not a conversion game, THEN it's likely one of us is. Based on READS I'm leaning Pac. If this is a conversion game, then the theory is moot. Which is why I'm not adamant about Pac for the D1 lynch. Sure, I'd vote him because he's pinging, but not because of the neighbor roles exclusively. 

Make sense?

You're an idiot.  You're trying to use my logic against me.

I was the one that immediately surmised that having a 3 man town mason team in a 12 man game would be stupid.  I believe it was literally my first post in that stupid QT.  I was coming at the angle of conversion game instead of 1 of us beginning as scum as that made more sense to me at the time.

Now you've effectively made me doubt anything you're saying in the QT.

Your clearing of Crush is also laughable..  what exactly has he done to be cleared??  For that matter what have I done to seem scummy.  I'M THE ONE who planted the seed in your stupid brain!!

If i was scum it wouldn't make any sense to immediately make my fellow townies doubt me.

 

[Integrity28]

8 minutes ago, StraightCash said:

I think there's no point discussing conversions until we have reason to believe that conversions are happening. I feel like it keeps getting brought up either as a scare tactic or a distraction.

lol, meanwhile... you think Crusher is scum, but instead you are creating petty arguments with me even though you think I'm town... but yea, everyone else is causing distraction